This is a thread for the discussion of all ideologies that promote property rights, individual liberty and lassez-faire capitalism. These includes (but is not limited to) anarcho-capitalism, paleolibertarianism, minarchy, objectivism and anti-leftism (i.e. physical removal, so to speak). All others are welcome to learn and debate us.
Reminder that this is a right-wing thread, so libertine degenerates ('live and let live' faggotry), open-border advocates and faux-libertarians (e.g. Gary Johnson) are not welcome here - people here recognise that property rights imply discrimination and a return to traditional, conservative values.
Although questions are welcome, many are repeated often, so it is recommended you research the basics first. Nobody here is obligated to debate with you, so try to avoid using fallacies in your arguments or creating unrealistic scenarios.
THREAD RESOURCES:
>Pastebin: pastebin.com
>Website: libertarianright.org
>Discord & Book Club: /jCVRCR3
REQUIRED READING:
>The Machinery Of Freedom: Illustrated Summary (David Friedman) - youtube.com
>Anatomy of the State (Murray Rothbard) - mises.org
>Democracy: The God that Failed (Hans Hermann-Hoppe) - riosmauricio.com
FURTHER READING:
>Reference - See i.imgur.com
>Torrent - magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8d8ec6ef882dee291f119eb69994797574e5d616&dn=Anarcho-Capitalism%20Books
THREAD THEME:
>hoppewave | Hans-Hermann Hoppe | physical removal - youtube.com/watch?v=u-wMmYSG9JQ
>Against the State - (Hoppewave Hans Hermann Hoppe) - youtube.com
>I need a Pinochet! - youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o
>Drop it like it's Hoppe - youtube.com
/lrg/ LIBERTARIAN RIGHT GENERAL
Other urls found in this thread:
Respect. Best thread.
I found that articulate black guys discord. It's pretty gay.
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i miss pinochet
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Would you guys be ok with open borders if the Civil Rights Act was repealed and immigrants weren't allowed welfare?
I know most of you are traditionalists but the economic gains could be pretty significant.
How do you protect the environment?
thatguyT?
cringe thread
Yeah. It's pretty degenerate.
If public property were abolished as well. Maybe. I still wouldn't let Mexicans near my covenant.
By abolishing public land
if you're polluting other people's property then that's breaking the NAP and you're getting sued. you're not polluting your own property because it would lower its value just like it would for ex: your house
so the environment would be more protected
OK here is a problem for Libertarians to solve, Gommies already got their solution and now i need to hear yours to make up my mind :
Lets say companies now increase the robot work force to up to 90%. This could lead to mass unemployment and consequently a huge crash since no one would have money to buy the stuff being produced in large scales. Since trying to hold production is retarded what are you as a libertarian propose ?
The gommie alternative :
Increase taxes on the companies that own robots. The more robots more taxes. With that money they would pay wages to the people for existing. If people still want to contribute to society they would ger more money (for exemple people producing papers in the university would get more money, conducting experiments, scientific breakthrough etc), as for example producing art(dont even ask me how would that work).
So Libertarians what is your solution ?
Complex question, but for the most part the restoration of property rights to their absolute level should fix the issue.
The simple fact here that lies at the heart of the issue is that polluting property is an act of aggression. Since we hold that all property should be private, you're either polluting your property or others. Of course, no rational person pollutes their own property, it would be economic madness.
Again, polluting other's property constitutes an act of aggression - this should be perused through the court systems. This is actually how this used to work, for example in the industrial revolution, people would take out class-action lawsuits under tort law against companies that harmed them with their pollution. Government of course ended this - by granting companies immunity to these, setting a set amount they were allowed to pollute, so that the economy wouldn't be 'hampered'. As far as I know, the same problem exists in the USA today - you can sue companies that pollute, but not class action, and obviously it's too infeasible for everyone nearby to sue.
There's other factors to consider, for example that government is a major agent of pollution anyway, having no incentive to preserve the 'public' property they hold. This problem holds true for many cases of public property - for example, governments renting out forests to logging companies, with no replanting occuring; or in the oceans, where companies have no reason to do aquaculture and preserve the oceans, since they can't own property in the ocean.
But to be short, pollution is managed by a comprehensive system of property rights and recognising over pollution as a crime.
You stupid niggers
Ancap doesn't work
The State needs to own things such as healthcare and school to ensure quality
>He thinks public schools are of quality.
This question has never made sense. In a world where everyone is unemployed because of the automation boogieman, there's nobody to buy goods, so why would capitalists ever allow this?
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if you let say pollute a river or a lake your neighbor should sue you since your action is devaluating his property.
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>no roads
Kek'd
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A new one
its obvious : because producing faster and better is easy attainable using robots. Also with better energy sources we might be able to make robots work so cheap it would be a bad idea to employ someone to do a job a machine can do. It can be done and will eventually happen. The state will obviously make laws to prevent it, but producing more is better than stop producing since it means more value.
do libertarians have a religion? if so, what and why?
Nice.
>In a world where everyone is unemployed because of the automation boogieman
youtube.com
"those who do not study can allways flip b... oh wait".
I promised in a previous thread that I would post the notes I took on the recent Corax conference from Hoppe:
1) Libertarianism as we know was created in Rothbard's house
2) We need private property for conflict avoidance
3) Talked about lockean appropriation
4) Talked about fake libertarians and how we need them as useful idiots
5) Our enemies are people who advocate for taxes, state, human rights, anti discrimination, minimum income, etc
6) Trump has proven to be a fluke even though he was hopeful
7) Alt right has no theory behind them to unite them, they have the presence though, so we should attempt to add theory to that movement
8) Egalitarian libertarianism is a mistake, need to understand differences of people
9) Alt right is only united by hate of globalism
10) Burn on stupids (students) for liberty, Jeffrey "foe" Tucker, Richard Spencer for going socialist
11) The NAP is not enough for a prosperous society, just the minimum all humans should agree on.
12) Multiculuturalism destroys libertarian order and generates a lack of trust between society members.
13) We must hate statists and idiots, our enemy is deep state, educators, MSM
14) White heterosexual men get the most criticism even though we are the biggest contrinutors to society
15) The strategy must be libertarian populism, headed by Mises institute, Rothbard and Hoppe himself
16) 10 steps we need to follow:
>stop mass immigration
>stop external wars and conflict generation
>defund elites
>end central banks
>end anti discrimination
>crush antifas and sjws
>crush criminals and gangs
>get rid of welfare bums
>Get the state out of education
>distrust all politicians
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>state healthcare and school
>quality
lmao, aren't mass starvation and commieblocks proof enough this is false?
Under those conditions stock ownership (any stock basically) would allow for basic livelihood, specially without inflation directing all our wealth towards inelastic demand products.
This would give us time to come up with new ways to differenciate ourselves and make us useful again. Craftmanship was replaced by industry, and industry will be replaced by craftmanship. Rich people buy handmade shoes, poor people buy industrial shoes, if everyone is rich, everyone buys handmade shoes.
People will be able to work much less in order to have good living conditions and will retire much earlier.
Unlike the UBI or communism, stock ownership directs funds towards productive enterprises. Our education will need to shift heavily to recognizing good business opportunities (it should already but states don't want us to become rich).
Wonderful, is there any video of this talk out yet?
Also if you guys keep this thread bumped long enough I'll get you that Paleo crew image made.
As mentioned before public property also has to be removed so there is only private property and every property owner can decide for himself who to let in or not. This process of border control could of course be outsourced or could be done togehter with people who share the same interest as you
not sure if they will go full jew and release it for people who paid for it or if they'll make it public. I hope the latter and I will try to let my opinion known in their forum.
a good one
Hey guys, I'm from r/Anarcho_Capitalism. It's neat to see a thriving island of sensible freedom lovers even in this racist hellhole.
I've been thinking about how to convert the alt-right nazi Trump sympathizers. Trump has done some good things but closing the borders is borderline fascist.
I think one first step is to point out that there would be no Trump without Ron Paul blazing the trail.
The only issue would be convincing them to be less racist. It would really be bad publicity if they carried all this anti-black, anti-semitic, white supremacist garbage into our pristine and egalitarian intellectual garden of Eden. Unlike others, I think these people are salvageable.
One idea is pointing out how many jews Trump employs. They seem pretty attached to him. Also, I think it's pretty trivial to prove to them that Africa isn't a shithole because of either race OR imperialism, but due to communism and foreign entanglements.
That's all for now. Cheers!
>healthcare and school
Of all the things you could have chosen (military, police, roads) you chose healthcare and school?
I personally do not and I think most libertarians don't either but libertarianism isn't opposed to the idea of religion. Following a religion or being member of a church is voluntary so there is no problem with that.
8/10 pretty good.
Could have been better if you said Jeffery Tucker or Byran Caplan was your hero.
I think makes sense. Im not religious but I'm sorta of the idea that there is a grand hierarchy. Seems compatible with libertarianism
What can the state do to ensure quality that private firms cannot?
No. Abolish public property like the other guy said first.
This is so cringy, only autistic retards without a slight sense of reality and human nature would be an-caps
Most libertarians seem to be areligious. That being said, the Christian church today is basically a tax-free voluntary organization completely separate from the state, with its own charities and militias (in the case of the middle east), so I'd imagine that even though libertarians trend towards agnosticism they can respect the position of Christianity today.
Thank you based Malta.
Notice that this is not an ancap thread, this is a libertarian thread.
A lot of things are compatible with libertarianism including a white ethno state and hippie communes. The point is just that you do not force your livestyle or ideology onto others.
It always saddens me when I see people who would find just what they are looking for i a libertarian society go into the complete opposite direction. It always seems to be easyer to define what you hate rather than to describe what you want.
You seem in dire need of a helicopter ride my socialist friend
kek
Thanks. I was hoping for more (you)s but oh well.
Same shit
Daily reminder that Capitalism can ONLY exist with a strong goverment that protects the system.
Here's your (You), faggot. Now leave
That got a good chuckle out of me. But if you want the (you)s try and make it seem legit. You should call Paleolibertarians and Hoppeans Nazis pretending to be libertarians.
Chile understands this. Just ask Pinochet.
>crush antifas and sjws
There might be a different side to this argument.
Those people make the left look bad wich in return drives people more to the right. If we defeat them we are just helping the left to get rid of their more ugly brothers and sisters.
Thanks for the tip. I don't really want to lurk that place myself to get more informed desu.
>Ayn Rand
>Milton Friedman
I don't think the left cares much about how they look as long as they control the narrative.
That's only because he took advise from (((Friedman))). A Hoppe coached monarchy would rek pinochet.
Most of the people in this thread support Pinochet. No one is saying that, in the capacities that a state should serve, it shouldn't serve strongly. A nation ought to have a strong military, police force, and border control. The rest can probably be handled by the private sector.
I disagree, "moderate" leftists want to destroy sjws because they make their agenda look bad. I think they are a good eye opener for right leaning people.
>falling for the new jewish intellectual movement
You morons, libertarian society would just mean direct consolidation of power for central banks and private banks during the transition.
Yes once they do, they don't care anymore (see venezuela). But we are sadly living in a democatic society and they have to be elected first. If they are associated with those commies most people wont vote for them because they are opposed to the methodes they are using (violence).
I don't get why you want to be the servants of a elite plutocratic system, lolbertarians seems massive cucks, the typical sycophant.
A Pinochet like capitalism wouldnt survive anyway, you need to make plebs happy and throw free gibs sometimes, you cant just kill opposition and expect people will not chimpout someday, why do you think the more savvy capitalists like Buffett are liberals?
Yeah, that's why we want to abolish central banking amiright? You're a big government shill. Don't pretend you oppose central banking.
>National (((Socialism)))
We are just as opposed to central banks as you are. Thats why we support the gold standart and bitcoin.
Privatized communism general.
>I don't get why you want to be the servants of a elite plutocratic system
I don't, by increasing the economic freedom society has you raise the amount of competition, thus allowing for smaller businesses to prosper over bigger business which use government regulations and high taxes to prevent competition.
>you need to make plebs happy and throw free gibs sometime
Not if you just kill them whenever they rebel.
How are you going to abolish them?
As soon as state loses power the people who control the money supply gain power directly. I'm not pro jewish usury and war profiteering.
Only in those places where they're losing the narrative. I know we tend to look at the US political scene as reference but the US is the exception here imo, in the rest of the world they still get away with things such as Hamburg's antifa revolt.
Production based currency is better because it creates a deflation based society, which with a government dedicated to optimizing the utility of the race (volk) can ensure steady wages and no market collapses from speculators. Not to mention interest free loans, which pay for themselves in the long run by relative change in currency value over time due to loans being used to boost production/consumption.
Which strain of Libertarianism is best suited for a white supremacist like myself. I feel that National Socialism turns into puritanical shit and eventually aims at it's own people. I think heroin should be legal which National Socialists vehemently oppose. I don't want Jews or shitskins to have any power.
Go back kike
I hadn't thought about Europe. I could see letting them to wild over there being a bad thing. Over here we laugh at them and whip out our guns when they get too rowdy.
>I believe in libertarian ideals but only the conservative ones xDDDD
Fucking retards, the lot of you.
>Interest-free loans
>Pay for themselves
Yes, because socialism is so libertarian.
Also
>remove non-whites
>remove jews
This is totally ancap friendly.
Paleolibertarianism
This thread is why I'm no longer a lolbergtarian.
Even Molymeme is only a bowtie in principle. Get a few drinks in him and he'd be throwing roman salutes and telling Jews to put their teeth on curbs.
National Socialist looking to deprogram into a drug friendly white libertarian utopia where drugs are legal. Any suggested reading?
Anyone who doesn't see National Socialism/fascism as a transit state that should be used for removing undesirables is a retard.
There is no way to create a society that has low average time preference, self-reliance and an anti-democratic/anti-communist perspective without having those ideas shoved down their throats.
What alternatives are there to de-globalisation other than fascism, libertarians?
Right-wing populism + secessionist movements.
Read pic related.
I agree to some extened. The tolerance for leftist violence in western europe is much greater than in the US and antifa also gets support from establied politicans. But that doesn't mean that things like we saw in hamburg, or every year in germany, aren't pushing a part of the population more to the right.
I'm just concerned that I'll be killed in a National Socialist state because I'll never give up drugs, and I'll never give up extreme sex fantasies.
I do view the removal of the Jew as the most important goal. But I've received enough backlash from National Socialists that I don't think it's for me. I've been likened to a kike and that's just not acceptable. It's a slap in the face to someone like me who has studied the Jewish question for over a decade.
>I'll never give up drugs, and I'll never give up extreme sex fantasies.
You're making us all look bad, you know?
You don't get it, do you?
Let's say most major corporations have robots. Small business could not afford up front cost, as well as mainyanance (ever been in a fast food job where there is no burger flipper on duty? It's a nightmare) because people have a smaller income, products being sold become incredibly cheap and still affordable. The market may change, but it is still a market.
I actually got into libertarian political thought based on the notion of man's fallibility - if man is a fallen and sinful creature, then no one can be trusted with an inordinate deal of power. While I think the concupiscence of man is axiomatic, and probably accepted my most libertarians, I first received it from Christian doctrine.
Basically what I'm trying to say is that Christian libertarianism is a coherent position - the Church is a free association, and charity to the poor ought to be as well, otherwise it has no spiritual content or value. If you force people into the external trappings of religion or moral behavior, then these lose the sanctity that they can only receive from free choice. God could have made us perfect automata, but didn't, so the drive to make human beings moral through coercion is literally Satanic.
My reasoning for accepting Christianity are in C.S. Lewis' books, which I recommend to everyone. Faith is a large part of it, which is why I refuse to try and force anyone to accept my religion, but I think it is my duty to answer this kind of question when it's asked.
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The cursory research I've done into Hoppe suggests he would be a drug warrior.
YES
he's a chainsmoker that's for sure
This is the greatest thing since bread came sliced ;_;
I didn't know he was the cussing type, I always assumed he was kinda put off by that. Kek I wonder what he stars saying once he has a few drinks. One drink away from becoming Pinochet.
Are there any good Paleolibertarian type forums aside from the mish-mash of Sup Forums
I was on Daily Stormer for a while but I got shoahed by the puritan cunts.
Um, in a Libertarian society you are free from oppression, but not free from damage you do to yourself. No society can protect you from your own choices.