>The abandoned cop cars sat in Trina Reyes’ yard for eight months. She wanted them gone, but there were no police to come get them. Last September, the police department in Von Ormy — a town of 1,300 people just southwest of San Antonio — lost its accreditation after it failed to meet basic standards. Reyes was mayor at the time, so the three patrol cars, as well as the squad’s police radios and its computers, ended up at her home. It was just another low point in a two-year saga that she now counts as one of the most difficult experiences of her life. >“This is one of the worst things I’ve ever done,” she said of being mayor. “I’ve never dealt with such angry people. I’m washing my hands of everything. … I’m going to travel. I’m going as far away from Von Ormy as I can.” >For the last few years, Von Ormy has been in near-constant turmoil over basic issues of governance: what form of municipal government to adopt, whether to tax its residents, and how to pay for services such as sewer, police, firefighters and animal control. Along the way, three City Council members were arrested for allegedly violating the Open Meetings Act, and the volunteer fire department collapsed for lack of funds. Nearly everyone in town has an opinion on who’s to blame. But it’s probably safe to say that the vision of the city’s founder, a libertarian lawyer whose family traces its roots in Von Ormy back six generations, has curdled into something that is part comedy, part tragedy >“After that, there was a lack of authority, lack of direction and a lack of enthusiasm,” said Michael Suarez, the former animal control worker for the city and a Martinez de Vara supporter. “Everyone started acting like children and nothing got done.”
>“The evidence room was literally an 18-wheel trailer that was unsecured. I found unmarked boxes filled with everything from weapons to narcotics … and anybody could walk in and they did.”
Christian Johnson
...
Anthony Russell
>“We worked so hard to get this far,” he said. “But it’s kind of turned into George Orwell’s Animal Farm. We’re all equal, but some of us are more equal than others. There’s nobody competent enough to lead this city and we sure as hell can’t attract anybody to come and fix us. We have to do this ourselves.”
Ethan Kelly
canary in the coal mine? a sign of things to come.
Robert Johnson
As a libertarian I see this as a good thing. These people will be the worker units.
Landon Evans
Most people are too stupid to live in an AnCap society, we already knew this. The idea is to let them all die.
Cooper Perry
means the community was rotten and didn't actually want to exist
natural selection at work
Luke Garcia
>'''''''''''liberty city''''''''''' >still can't dope up my child sex slaves on heroin Yeah but that wasn't REAL ancap.
Jason Miller
Top Kek, charge 4% sales tax, copy a comparable city's property tax rate, drop a percent or two, depending if the budget absoulutely needs it, submit it to the citizens with a clear statement of where all the funds are going, bamn, you got a more functioning city than a lolberg can manage.
Elijah Brown
>Reyes >Suarez I think I've found the problem with libertarians.
Xavier Kelly
Great way to start a political ideology, getting rid of 95% of your population
Nicholas Price
95% of the population is shitskins that don't deserve to live. You of all people should understand being from Africa.
Ryan Sanchez
Sewers and running water and roads and police are for the commons and the first and last best way to pay for them and manage them is to make a common fund, ancaps are retarded or underage. Always make a plumbers trade school before you make a doctors college, plumbers save way more lives than doctors.
John Richardson
>. I’m washing my hands of everything. … I’m going to travel >she said of being mayor >she so fuck things up then leave
Elijah Wood
>Speak English 44% >Speak Spanish 53%
There's your problem.
Asher Nguyen
What is ancap about that situation?
The police still have a monopoly in that area, they just quit. They could come back at any time.
No security firm would touch the place because of this.
The problem in that town is government.
Leo Martinez
>Trina Reyes
Nolan Ortiz
Ancaps are retarded and genuinely think 60%+ of the population is just going to sit by while they starve them out instead of gorilla warfairing thier house, thier wife and thier busnisses. >hurrdurr just shoot them all Even if that was successful no one else would ever deal with you again, go live in Eastern Africa if you want to know what petty warlorderism is like. The day after the water stopped flowing from the city pipes (which take consist mantainice btw) all you ancap retards would be begging for a government.
Kevin Myers
I didn't once say I thought they would sit, I will take great pleasure in killing those that invade my property.
Austin Sanders
B-BUT MUH TAXATION IS THEFT REEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Austin Howard
ANCAP would work in a 100 percent Anglo society well enough, yes.
50 percent of Mexican, Arab, Jew, Negro, and whatnot, will destroy it.
Hudson Gray
Once all the niggers like are done chimping out they will all be dead or slaves again so we will be fine.
Gabriel Garcia
No it wouldn't. grow up. Leave this place, and learn game theory/prisoners dellima. Ancaps are as delusional as commies
Jason Reyes
Hmm it's like there is almost a distinct lack of libertarians and ancaps in this thread.
Gavin Rodriguez
>This is one of the worst things I’ve ever done > I’m washing my hands of everything. … I’m going to travel. I’m going as far away from Von Ormy as I can wait what? >S H E said of being mayor oh lol I can't read
Jaxson Jenkins
I wonder why, Thnx u mad me thinc
Lincoln Turner
Plenty of frontier towns composed of 100 percent white people were ANCAP and they ran fine.
Joshua Wright
Don't pretend to have studied game theory, loser. We did it already and you clearly haven't done enough of it.
Jose Flores
You mean you will sit alone on your property and shoot everyone of the 100+ mob that attacks your place and firebombs it?
Every Libertarian imagines himself as the superhuman winner.
Blake Perry
This The situation doesn't "disprove" anything, it's a dipshit strawman like most arguments against capitalism. HURRDURR GOVERNMENT MADE A POOPY THE MARKET MUST BE AT FAULT
Benjamin Smith
What the fuck has this got to do with ancap?
Austin Parker
The problem is that Libertarianism has been swallowed by anarcho-capitalism. Honestly I consider Minarchism to be the most fundamental Libertarianism, with all increases on government power to be derivative of it until at some point you're conservative. Any "Libertarian" claiming the government is illegitimate is just an AnCap in denial. A good Libertarian rather argues why the government should be as small as possible, that is, that preserving individual Liberty is a value unto itself and usually has economic benefits as icing on the cake.
Austin Clark
Agreed. Micharchism is what i think of when I think of libertarianism. A night watchman state is the ideal form of government.
Lucas Martinez
Nothing more funny than ayncraps defending their loser ideology.
Josiah Kelly
Who said alone? Who said shoot everyone? Who said lolbertarian? I have friends and acquaintances I have discussed and planned for such circumstances with, there are more effective ways to keep groups off land and kill them if necessary.
Liam Russell
Questioning Fascism, rude. All you dipshits should love it.
Thomas Martin
>mah frontier towns supported by railroads and outside industry Are you retarded or just pretending? Yeah I'M sure they worked when they were less than 100 people and didn't have or need any modern conveniences like sewers or regular spitic tank truck drainage. Most people don't want to live like poor subsistence farmers without electricity or gas you undercover Street shitting Indian. Do you even know how towns worked? you want a new dress or shirt? You mail out for the patterns and spend a month sewing it. It's not exzacty wealth generating, nothing is stopping you from playing frounter boy though, plenty of ruail land without services. Why don't you come up with an example of more than 200 people from the last 100'years that is not a compete shithole
Nathan Barnes
I'm rather conservative but have been more open to Libertarianism lately. A combination of being tired of the government running shit poorly and wasting money (Canada) and otherwise not liking the government ruling over my social actions (such as what I can say or think, because again, fucking Canada).
Nathaniel James
Minarchism is cool too, you filthy kikesucking splitter. Don't fabricate divides in ideologies you don't even believe in.
Wyatt Rodriguez
Just gonna drop this here. STOPandLOOKs (G Edward Griffin I think) series on Individualism vs Collectivism. Can't recommend this series enough, from the seasoned (and jaded) libertarians to people who are just slightly curious in libertarianism. Smoke a bowl and watch this stuff. Nothing ties together the philosophy better.
No it wouldn't. Hurr communism doesn't work because people are obviously self centered and greedy to a certain degree.
But the complete opposite. Greed and being self centered would create a perfectly fine and moral society with the community looking out for eachother and States that have naturally formed for the last 10000+ years aren't real because muh natural rights.
Cooper Howard
ho god a non state is not like a state, big news
Jayden Bennett
Mincarchism is a cancer designed to kill freedom. lolbertarians are a pathetic joke.
Lucas Reyes
wtf I hate roads now
Hudson Murphy
WE WORKED SO HARD
Adam Murphy
> government preserves liberty > we can totally keep it small guys > monopolies are good goys > we can totally vote in liberty > we can totally sack all government workers and lean out the stagnant rusty leviathan state
Naive imo. Ancap is much more realistic because democracy doesn't work, supporting alternatives that render the state obsolete is already happening. So realistically we have a shot at a free society we have no chance in hell at convincing the population to dismantle everything
Austin Myers
>Everyone started acting like children This is a commentary on society, not the particular wacky form of governance they tried
Logan Reyes
>Smoke a bowl and watch this stuff. Nothing ties together the philosophy better. Yeah, because we need more retards on Sup Forums.
Ayden Thompson
so how do you account for the inevitable monopolies that will form in a theoretical ANCRAP society?
Bentley Adams
They will not be stable because anyone who wants to undercut them will do so.
Blake Torres
>she said of being mayor >she There's the problem.
Colton Young
I hate you retards so much >hurrdurr industry is easy to start from the ground up, anyone will just undercut them >meanwhile at the same time you pretend private police forces and roads won't be a problem for new industry that is hostile to established interests. Btw there has never been such a thing as free enterprise in the Industrial Age, all industy in every country ever has needed government help to get to the level of scale needed to be competitive, a truely free market in a Industrial Age has never exsisted and will never exist
Aiden Gutierrez
the companies with the most profit and better access to resource can undercut the other ones. If you start up your own business McDonalds can be giving out free burgers until you go out of business since they have a billion shops and you have one
Xavier Murphy
So lets say McDonald's and Wendy's get together and raise the prices of their hamburgers to $10 a piece. Alright, now I have an opportunity to start selling hamburgers at $1 from my front porch. People will buy my hamburgers because the price isn't artificially raised through a monopoly. Wendy's and McDonald's start competing with the street vendors and the price drops to levels consumers desire. Street vendors can't compete and disappear. That's how the business cycle works. In the end the consumer gets what they want.
Gabriel Davis
>libertarianville This has been discussed several times within libertarian circles, you can't bring a group of people together with libertarianism as the only thing incommon. You need an overarching way of life, a culture. For example I don't belive christians and radical atheists would fare well even thought they were both libertarians..
That is why so many libertarians are getting redpilled on race and culture.
Gabriel Campbell
So? If you can't compete then get lost. I want the best quality product at the best price. If a big company does that then so be it.
Joseph Rivera
And you know what happens when you do that? Customers will come to your shoppe, only to find a billion glass shards from the gunfire, bullet holes everywhere and a business owner who just got an offer he can't refuse, putting the burgers at $10.
Matthew Murphy
I would bring that person into a court of law to sue them for damages to my business.
Caleb Brown
Don't bother, KGDUfdg is retarded. He has no understanding of monopoly power, or the logistics that underlie a busnisses especially at scale.
Carter Walker
You have no understanding of how easy it is to out maneuver a massive industry by offering higher quality products or low cost options.
Tyler Thomas
BUT IN THE END
James Harris
WE RECEIVED IN EXCHANGE THE WAGE OF OUR LABOR!
Adam Rogers
did you even take economics, you retard? Monopolies form in the first place because of barriers to entry to the market. You can't just "undercut them". You know Intel charges way more for processors than is efficient for society. Why don't you just "undercut" them? Oh right, you have no idea how to make a processor and a processor production facility only costs 10 billion dollars.
Dumb fuck.
Elijah Wright
When humans are free to play a real game do you think they'll be the same as they are now?
Nathan Diaz
>short sighted retard is ANCAP color me surprised. In the given hypothetical scenario, you'll only get cheap burgers in the short run. Once all the competition has been stamped out the price of burgers goes up forever, dumbass.
Benjamin Gomez
If you want a burger and it is cheap and good quality then go on. I am not a subhuman and I eat normal food. >The price of burgers goes up forever Economic illiterate. Supply and demand. Sometimes you make more profit when the price goes down. In a free market if you your price went up someone else would come and make a firm with a cheaper price.
Nolan Carter
thats only if there are small or no barriers to entry to the market. Monopolies would never form in the burger industry because any retard can start a burger stand and it would be impossible to quash all the competition. Yes you gain a profit when the price goes down, but only if your good is price elastic, which no monopoly good ever is.
If you're actually advocating ANCAP then you're clearly the economic retard here, son. Saying "muh supply and demand" doesn't mean anything.
Jordan Cook
Making a 100% efficient society is impossible. Intel has to price their processors at a price the market can afford.
Wrong. Other companies will make burgers of a different variety that people prefer.
Angel Evans
And then you get shot in the head so you can hear the ocean sing. I'm talking about mob rule here. Read up on the Prohibition, see what happens when you effectively create a free market for a highly desirable commodity.
Brody Kelly
Inelastic goods are also price capped at the supply/demand curve because if they raise prices too much people will not be able to afford the required product and society will fail thus dooming the company. It fixes itself.
Jonathan Sullivan
That's why I wrote the next two lines of text you fucking retard, learn to read and saying "monopoly good" literally doesn't mean anything. I at least had something to back up why I said you're an economic illiterate, tell me why am I.
Bentley Peterson
In a libertarian society there would still be police and courts. Prohibition is a good argument FOR libertarian not against.
Connor Ortiz
In a libertarian society, the mob is the police.
Noah Roberts
>Making a 100% efficient society is impossible. >making a perfect society is impossible so let's just make a dogshit ANCAP one
>Other companies will make burgers of a different variety that people prefer. hey dumbass, I already said that that the burger market would never form a monopoly because there are no barriers to entry. Let's talk about the integrated circuit industry instead.
Colton Sanders
Your argument for it is? You know we currently have more private security than the police?
Hudson Ortiz
Wrong. The Government is separate from the market and is run through taxation.
Wyatt Harris
>lolbergtarianism failed
Imagine my shock
Jayden Butler
...
Leo Rivera
A rich person who thinks they can compete with Intel is more than welcome to set up their own CPU industry. What is your problem?
Josiah Wilson
Because you're implying monopolies can never form because someone will always undercut you, which is clearly false. Monopolies do form and I guarantee you that you are not the only genius to come up with the idea of "LETS JUST UNDERCUT THEM!". The only thing stopping monopolies is government intervention via anti-trust laws, and monopolies are objectively bad for society. This is why ANCRAP is meme status.
Jonathan Hughes
I disagree that monopolies can be sustained under ANCAP.
Jaxson Butler
>Intel undercuts him until he goes bankrupt and is not so rich anymore >others see this and don't try again >Intel is free to charge whatever they want again
Sebastian Turner
>A rich person You have such a childish and simple way of thinking. First of all you'd have to be more than just "a rich person", you would have to be one of the richest people alive to fund it yourself AND you would have to have any idea what you're doing (which is basically impossible because the companies that do keep it super-duper secret) AND you would be competing with some of the biggest mega-conglomerates on the entire globe. My problem is that you're a retard and your ideology sucks balls and is only for retards and yet here I am trying to explain myself to an actual retard.
Nathaniel Edwards
You sound more like a communist.
Tyler Butler
If you think monopolies aren't formed by goverment and can only be deleted by goverments you're a fucking retard. Look at the current world. Jesus fucking christ the burgers have shit education.
Landon Stewart
Eventually Intel will price their processors at a rate that the market demands. This is the best rate for both Intel and Consumers at large. If Intel charges too much then they won't sell as much product and make less money. This is self correcting you absolute retard.
Jason Howard
>what is venture capital
James Jackson
You are the retard that is going to be augmented to work 22 hours a day living in filth in your ideal society while the owners make off like gods. Even burgers require ranch land for the cows, shipping to get them, electrical power to grind them, flour mills for the grain for the buns, etc etc. to pretend you'd be able to raise enough cows and Brian and have enough labor on your small land holding is retarded, and in this example the burger monopoly would squeeze you out in many different ways. Burgers were always a bad exaplme though things like cars and steel and pipe it are much better examples because the places you get the ore from are much more limited and easier to monopolize. And then you start getting into advanced goods like microchips/TVs,computers >hurrdurr just make your own microchip clean room Please kill your self if they raise prices too much people will not be able to afford the required product and society will fail There is a price space between fail and efficient pricing that a monopoly exsists in retard. Als if your safety check is >society fails You are retarded and want to live in the dark ages
Evan Scott
You're right, we should just keep using this shitty system where the Government picks winners and losers through regulation.
Jose Adams
So your argument changed from "anyone can compete with them and lower the price" to "m-maybe they will be merciful to us goyim and lower the price eventually". Nice goalpost moving.
Evan Gray
>accuses my of shit education >resorts to red-herring logical fallacy Hey you Polish nigger-human, we're talking about a theoretical governmentless society. I never said governments couldn't have monopolies, you just stuffed that in my mouth and said "GAWD THIS AMERICAN IS SO RETARDED YALL". That's okay because I already know you don't know how to refute my argument about monopolies naturally forming without government intervention so you did waht every retard does and reach for the logical fallacies.
Jayden Garcia
That was a good read. Thanks
Thomas Morgan
>what is every other point
Kayden Morgan
You idiot. There is a price at which a company makes the maximum profit for any good or service. That is the price they will use. If they go higher they will make less profit.
Brandon Foster
Oh wow what a suprise. (Not really though.)
Brayden Adams
There are monopolies/duopolys today that exist becuase of the currpot government helps them, yes. But to say monopolies wouldn't form without government help is wrong and also disproveable becuase the worst monopolies ever were formed without government help
Lucas Barnes
The argument is that humans are inherently capable of evil, and greed is a great motivation to exercise evil. Somehow libertarians got it in their head that when a big business raises the price by 500% there won't be pushback from the customer, and that an alternative business will be able to freely undercut the big business without the big business retaliating at all. Libertarianism is seriously naive.
Irrelevant. The guy with the gun is the guy you're gonna want to listen to. This simple principle is what mobs have used for decades to create their protection rackets with which they fund their background operations (in case of Prohibition, booze) and bribe officials as well as creating a point of supply for the consumer.
Justin Murphy
Perhaps, except that price would much higher than the actual value and the quality would be shit because it's your only choice anyway.
Leo Brown
youre so fucking stupid. Companies charge a price where marginal price = marginal revenue, yes, but that has nothing to do with the argument at hand. We're talking about how competition LOWERS prices and thus is good for consumers. You're talking like monopolies don't even fucking matter or exist when. Guess what, a monopoly has no competition by definition so they end up charging WAY more than is optimal for society thus the average person loses, consumers lose, and you lose. This is the ANCAP society you dream of.
