Every time I see someone explaining why they dislike communism, the first thing lefties say is

Every time I see someone explaining why they dislike communism, the first thing lefties say is
>bruh, have you read the gommunist manifesto? no, of course, *smug face*
Why do they do this? What is the hidden truth in that fucking book, why do they think it will solve all of their problems and why is it necessary for me to read into nearly 300 pages of commie propaganda to be qualified to debate them? The way I see it, it's like asking a vegan why they wouldn't recommend McDonald's.

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youtube.com/watch?v=mQc5f2JYP-A
youtube.com/watch?v=s5axVunzQSA
youtube.com/watch?v=Rh-4gsDjAKg
youtube.com/watch?v=WzzQCTOlhNk
youtube.com/watch?v=dbZXFjIzzzc
youtube.com/watch?v=TcebhfOhPMo
youtube.com/watch?v=LsE8nFX5xD8
youtube.com/watch?v=5e86ijqsfwc
youtube.com/watch?v=h47q1dOGEoU
youtube.com/watch?v=LCkd6EA_B0U
aljazeera.com/programmes/upfront/2017/06/don-blame-socialism-venezuela-woes-170617080851514.html
archive.is/tlOqc
quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chinese-army-soldiers-swear-allegiance-to-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-and-not-to-the-nation
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Show them practical examples from various places and contexts.

If people understand something then it's easy for them to explain it so just ask them.

Basically the idea is that the people providing capital is not actually producing any value, but still gets most of the reward. So the idea is that the capitalist don't bring anything to the table except capital and that society would function much smoother without unproductive members like the capitalists exploiting the work of the proletariat who actually produce value.

The communist manifesto have a few arguments that show this and then conclude that the best society is a society where everyone produce value if they can and where everyone enjoys the fruits of their labor fully and not just partially by giving most of it to the bourgeoisie.

Its quite short actually, its also crap
They do it cause they are cheap

Because to articulate an anti-thesis you need to be familiar with the thesis in first place. This is literally philosophy 101, post-hegel edition.

Communists biggest enemy is actually the middle class, the little burgeoise, i-run-my-own-lil-business type

Its a movement of people who doesn't understand the value of administrative labour

Yo can actually see this in action by just looking at California. They're treating the Middle Class with MASSIVE contempt and are also using them to spread their communist thinking toward other states. It's fucking terrifying how many people don't see this at all!

You can be familiar with the concept of communism without reading the manifesto famalam.

It's pretty short so you should read it, also it's pretty shit. Das Kapital, now that's an impenetrable pile of ideology

Its around 60 pages you illiterate cocksucker. How fucking pathetic are you you can't read 60 pages. Have fun at mcdonalds you illiterate human waste.

Also the manifesto gives a limited insight into communism, Capital is much more in depth in looking at the economics side.

Read it. It's a 2 days read although pretty shitty

It's because they can't argue the system for themselves. It's the same reason they say shit like "it's inevitable" without any backing, they know that they can't argue for their system so they instead rely on this smug idea that they've already won the argument and the other person just needs to read more.

Economics side of communism:
Line up for bread.

>communist manifesto
>300 pages
it's seriously like what, 10 pages?

youtube.com/watch?v=mQc5f2JYP-A

...

>literally philosophy
>shitty dialectical materialism
pick one

You`re right, but for the sake of others it can`t hurt anyone to argue in more informed and articulate manner particularly if you are trying to convince anyone.

"If you know your enemy, and you know yourself, you need not fear the result of a thousand battles."

I've read the Manifesto and Das Kapital. Labor theory of value is a shit.

>it costs money to visit karl marx

Oh cool, another privileged American living in a capitalist country using goods provided by capitalism to make a video about communism neither him or his family ever experienced.

There's no secret truth in their garbage literature, but there's reason for their smugness, under certain conditions, their narrative is incredibly persuasive.

But again, some conditions need to be met in order for it to turn you into a commie:

1. You have to be somewhat demoralized and definitely nihilistic.
2. You have to be doubtful of your current life conditions.
3. You have to be doubtful of your future life conditions.
4. You need to feel resentment and jealousy towards others.
5. You need to be oversocialized.

If one of these conditions is met, you could hypothetically read the Manifesto and try to read Kapital without falling asleep, and actually turn commie.

I don't have any of these, btw, but I immediately understood what sort of people are drawn to this, simply by reading their literature.

Thesis and anti-thesis as theoretical concepts predate dialectical materialism and are Hegelian concepts.

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Most internet commies that I know of are autistic loners who just seem to resent their standing society, I don`t think that it has much grounds on envy or jealousy but more of alienation.

Nobody is forcing you to work.

If you were in a communist society you would be.

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>Nobody is forcing you to work.
Work is needed for survival though

half of Marx his work is basically him trying to solve the labour theory of value and him struggling with the transformation problem

he thought he could fix both or atleast move around them but the end he failed to do so

aside from that he had some important insides of capitalism which leads him to formulate some valid critiques

some of his work is also a sort of critical summary of political economy before him and during his time (he especially likes Ricardo's work)

basically I would say that you don't need his books to discuss communism as a system of economic organisation, it is also safe to say that most people who tell you to read Marx don't understand half of what he wrote (except maybe some of his strong one-liners)

It IS hypocritical however to be a communist and not be self-employed or working for a coop or commune.

Spoken like a true, bitter flyover.

"I live in Kansas but let me tell you about how California is the worst."

-Small business owner in California.

:^)
Communism has been tried and collapsed (by himself) everywhere around the world, I actually don't care either about death tolls, it just illustrates that an egalitarian system necessarily need to force the people to obey to be applied, therefore it concentrates an authoritarian power in the hands of a small elite which rapidly becomes gentrified while the average man starves. But communism is mostly a teenager thing living in a capitalist country by now, even if it's pretty much non-existent as commies are now promoting full degeneracy.

Sale chien, c'est à cause des abrutis comme toi qu'on vit dans un pays de cucks

>listen bud you need to read this book written by some random guy to prove that I am a retard that can't think for myself
>every communist ever

youtube.com/watch?v=s5axVunzQSA

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Commies are pussies lol

It depends since just partaking in activism does not nervelessly help the cause but might even work against it. It would be much more better if communists in general just partook in lives of underground parties and such, rather than attempting to reform current state of affairs with on the ground building of dual power via communes and co-ops.

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The communist believes in a false sense of evolution in which humanity would abandon religion and greed which is theoretically impossible due to the tragedy of the commons in which human nature is impossible to abandon. Furthermore a classless society is literally impossible due to once again human nature. All humans are greedy in one way or another. Communists are delusional youth or fucking retards.

Oh, cool. People should have fled to the East when the Berlin wall fell. They misunderstood the benefits of communism! Mass starving were necessary so a few people can live nicely.

>anglicisme
>cache son drapeau
bel appât, prends un (toi)

communism is like the string theory
looks and sounds nice in the books, but it's totally inapplicable in reality

The days of Communist are numbered.

youtube.com/watch?v=h47q1dOGEoU

>muh human nature

It is more like studying the concept of evolution to understand the bio-diversity and its functionality on this planet. You need to have firm bases to build your conceptual understanding form.

>It would be much more better if communists in general just partook in lives of underground parties and such
I don't see how this would help at all, you'd be contributing to the economic power of capitalism while doing nothing but waiting for change to happen on its own.

um no sweetie it isnt, if you wanted to be a dumb nigger you could apply for welfare and just exist.

>Mass starving were necessary so a few people can live nicely.
That's what capitalism is all about
youtube.com/watch?v=LCkd6EA_B0U

It doesn't sound nice in the books, it's pure craziness and utopia. Also very anachronical by now indeed.

While evolutionary pshycology drives us to greed and religion, it is also true that very same nature dries us to cooperation and looking out for our organic communities that are part of ourselves and our lives. We are neither pure collectives nor individualists by nature.

But that's parasitism, and we're against that

Where do you live? Most western countries have pretty robust welfare states, not enough for luxaries but certainly enough to live.

Where are all the literally starving to death Americans?

>third world is third world
>Africa is capitalist

Your baits are lowering in quality
Also why people didn't flee to the East when the Wall fell? Genuine question

AAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Don't even get me started on those cock-suckers!

>have the option to go to glorious socialist paradise Cuba, Venezuela or China
>don't
>have the option to live like a true commie: bare necessities only, and voluntarily share the rest with someone else
>nope
>have the option to not buy items from companies that exploit their workers, instead buying from coops (obviously at a higher price and with lower quality)
>nope, Iphone, Starbucks and Walmart nigga
>have the option to find other likeminded commies like you, pool up your cash, start a company and run it however you see fit (shorter hours, $15/h wage whatever)
>HAHAHA NO (or it crashes badly)
>do none of the tenets of TRUE COMMUNISM by yourself
>would vote for big gov to take other people's stuff away though :^)
>OH BUT THAT'S NOT TRUE COMMUNISM BECAUSE GOMMIENISM IS A STATELESS SOCIETY...
>rinse and repeat
Get a fucking job you hippie

These parties would eventually partake in the act of revolt, but I think that ideally it should only happen after the first general revolution takes place, Like during the Russian revolution or the Chinese revolution/warlord period.

So work self employed or in a commune or coop then.

You mean I have to actually PROVE my worth to get something?
>entitled shit will be an entitled shit

The "middle class" as is used in common everyday American language (ie. meaning someone who isn't poor) is NOT what middle class means in marxism.

In marxism the working class is everyone who gets a wage (which in some cases might even be a rich CEO if the CEO does not own any part of the company)

Then we have the middle class who own their own means of production. (or the small bourgeoisie) this might be a lawyer who has his own lawyer firm and so on. The middle class might even be poorer than the average working class, but he owns the means of production and he produces himself. It has nothing to do with white collar jobs (which are working class by and large unless it's an architect with his own firm or something)

Then you have the capitalists, the bourgeoisie who do not produce, but exploit workers and pocket the fruits of their labor.

Sometimes these days there is a mix. There might be someone who has waged labor but who secretly outsource his own work to some cheap Indians and pocket the difference. They are both working class AND bourgeoisie at the same time. I don't think Marx or Engels even imagined that category.

Have you read Das Kapital?

>These parties would eventually partake in the act of revolt
But you're not doing anything to speed along this revolt, in fact you're delaying it by working in the same private businesses that everyone else is and thus giving them more profits.

Content petit ?

Tu seras le premier envoyé au goulag, que tu réalises ce que c'est quand le système t'imposer de travailler pour le compte d'un autre

Communists killed farmers. They killed the people who produced their food because they were jelly. And then they starved, because the proletariat didn't know how to fucking farm. Learning that was enough for me to know that commies are retarded. None of them stopped to ask themselves if maybe killing the person who supplied their whole city with produce and stealing their shit was a bad idea.

>have the option to go to glorious socialist paradise Cuba, Venezuela or China
Cuba is under a blockade
Venezuela is not suffering from capitalism
aljazeera.com/programmes/upfront/2017/06/don-blame-socialism-venezuela-woes-170617080851514.html
China stopped communist after Mao died

I also it's better to stay here

Alternatively
archive.is/tlOqc

What are you even refering at you dumb burger

>It's pretty short so you should read it, also it's pretty shit. Das Kapital, now that's an impenetrable pile of ideology

This post is true... Das Kapital have some huge flaws (for example Marx and Engels consider the middlemen as useless, but as we see from the Soviet union the middlemen created a black marked for goods that people needed, but that the state did not know people needed. Without the black market then the Soviet union would have collapsed in the 60s), but apart from that it is a very surprisingly enlightening analysis of capitalism. Even people who love capitalism will have trouble poking holes in it. Marx and Engel's solution to the flaws of capitalism is shit, but their analysis is quite good.

Attempts at reform can only parlong the capitalism and since there is no ethical consumption under capitalism this makes no difference. Attempts to force the revolution have historically failed miserably as history has shown(German revolution,Colombian and Philippine revolutions)

Why? Anti-fascists are such scum that they think their women's studies degrees get them a £40,000 a year wage?
Fuck off back to Scrubway and make me a meatball marinara

Le retour du stalinisme est encore plus improbable que celui du fascisme j'en ai bien peur

Les nègres nous enculeront tous

Turn it around on them.
>How can you claim to hate fascism when you haven't read Mein Kampf?
>How can you claim to hate capitalism when you haven't read The Wealth of Nations?

i'm one massive stride ahead of lefties: i've read capital vol. 1

>Also very anachronical by now indeed
it doesn't stop university professors from vomiting deconstructionism and shilling for an nonexistent equality.

but yes, Argentina and France are the only countries in the world that accept Freudism/psychoanalysis as a real thing. It has a lot to do with the widespread of marxism in the societies, and the censorship they impose once they get in power

>but yes, Argentina and France are the only countries in the world that accept Freudism/psychoanalysis as a real thing.
I thought we were alone, good to know
Feels bad to live in a time where cultural marxism has won.

That's not what I meant.Reading is fine but don't try and use it to get out of an argument, which is what they do most of the time.

The fact that you don't need to know about labor theory to know that commies are fucked because their braindead actions speak for themselves.

>Get a fucking job you hippie

>inb4 no such thing as cultural marxism

This doesn't work.

They are completely Ok with killing people to get there way. They don't admit it out right but they are generally genocidal maniacs from my experience. Especially on the west coast.

Let commies think what they want. I'm a small business owner and a decade from now I'm still gonna be a business owner while they'll be serving me my morning coffee for all that time. Why should you or I be worried about the delusional ramblings of manchildren who wouldn't last a week without their parents' bank accounts?

It seems kind of lazy and hypocritical to me, you want revolution so that the working class is not exploited for their labor, yet when we point that you can form coops and communes to prevent exploitation, you say you don't want to do that so that the revolution will come sooner, even though the reason you want revolution is so that the exploitation will stop and the only reason the exploitation is happening is because you refuse to provide alternatives that would stop the exploitation in the hope of revolution so that you can stop the exploitation.

This.
I have personally found the wealth of nations quite enlightening whenever Smith writes in defense of the protections for the poor and aiding them.

add pls variant with peasant and proletariat

>No capitalist country in latin america
What

Good point. But more than deaths it shows the failure of all these regimes (only a few survived without liberalization)

kek

But he's statistically probably right.

Botswana, Chile, and Hong Kong are doing pretty good.

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>"Consider the words, not the actions"
Just ignore them. I haven't read the damn thing because I don't think It'll be worth it. I doubt Marx/Engels were good writers, and I'm certain any political theory written in the 19th century by fucking journalist nobodies has very little use today, If any

>mon mouvement de petites pédales de plus de 60 ans qui n'ont jamais touché une arme de leurs vies et qui représente moins de 0,1% de la population va t'envoyer au goulag

Je suis sûr qu'il doit se chier dessus.

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You are explaining one of the themes of Das Kapital. The communist manifesto is more like a modern political party-program. It speaks that the resources should be divided amongst the people according to the rule of "do what you can" (as in work as hard as you can), "get what you need". (so basically no rich people, onjly people getting their needs met).

Das Kapital is a book that has value. It gives a good understanding of the capitalist system, from the view of the worker. It does not say that everyone should be paid equal etc., it's specifically written in it that some people are smarter than others and will earn more from less work because of it.

The communist manifesto on the other hand is garbage.

I do have a job though

Also most people in the west who call themselves socialists are Berntards which are phonies

Attends, il faisait peut-être référence aux jeunes antifascistes encagoulés à moitié anorexiques qui fuient même à 10 contre 1 quand ils n'ont pas de cocktails molotov à jeter contre une police constamment docile car sommée de ne pas attaquer (et qui chouinent quand, une fois tous les cinq ans, l'un d'entre eux meurt accidentellement après avoir lancé des explosifs) - eux-mêmes accompagnés de leurs camarades transgenres pansexuels fluides libertaires vegans.

>steep decline in average earnings
Well we already know that pic is full of shit

What's your job and where do you work?

As someone who ascribes to accecolarist school of tought in this matter, I do genially believe that the best way forward is not to just wait around but actively attempt to worsen the current state of affairs by removing social safety net form society(all formats of welfare and current labor laws) and accelerating the revolutionary conditions.

>from the view of the worker.
>Karl Marx

kek

quora.com/Is-it-true-that-Chinese-army-soldiers-swear-allegiance-to-the-Chinese-Communist-Party-and-not-to-the-nation

>there is no ethical consumption under capitalism

>The agreement of two mutually consenting parties triggers me because the wealth is not transferred to unskilled non contributors who are rightfully poor

Utilitarianism was a mistake

>Muh evil pinochet and muh deaths
>Defends Fidel Castro
What

Also
>Allende is president from 1970 to 1973
>People have to do long lines to get bread
And
>In 1972 there was this horrible economic depression where there was no food at all
>People starve
>Pinochet comes in power
>Applies capitalism
>Now we have one of the best economies in south america