Why does Sup Forums pretend that socialism doesn't work when Cuba and the DPRK are still arround despite a) loosing all...

Why does Sup Forums pretend that socialism doesn't work when Cuba and the DPRK are still arround despite a) loosing all supplemental imports of fertilizers and pesticides from the USSR after 1991 and b) basically having a Mexican stand-off with the entire world as a small country with harsh preconditions to begin with and still manage to not only provide basic services to their people like free housing, free education, etc. (unlike burgerland) but also show no sign of collapse whatsoever and keep developing (theduran.com/truth-north-korea-booming/)?

Other urls found in this thread:

express.co.uk/news/uk/606365/Cuba-Pope-visit-homeless-social-cleansing-communist-government-Commission-Human-Rights/amp
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills
youtube.com/watch?v=ZZu1-4fZOck
youtube.com/watch?v=cGfTguMf8NY
youtube.com/watch?v=zCjpxZDTyqs
youtube.com/watch?v=FtDWYzwwuUs
youtube.com/watch?v=Q_JZS_j-pkQ
youtube.com/watch?v=fNoOOCHvQF4
youtube.com/watch?v=2QMQwa6j_hc
youtube.com/watch?v=LGE2FOsQ1tk
rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/
liberationnews.org/my-trip-to-north-korea-13-misconceptions-corrected/
vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/
38north.org/
forbes.com/sites/billfrist/2015/06/08/cubas-most-valuable-export-its-healthcare-expertise/#6bd43275195e
theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/30/cuba-first-eliminate-mother-baby-hiv-transmission
forbes
archive.is/WGiJU
theguardian
archive.is/bAhXY
youtube.com/watch?v=8_QnE9-iK80
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269094/North-Korean-parents-eat-children-driven-mad-hunger-famine-hit-pariah-state.html
youtube.com/watch?v=v-XS4aueDUg
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>Are still around

Like all the African countries that were made in the 20th century?

Go suck Hitler's dick you fucking kraut.

DPRK exists because it has nukes; I can't speak for Cuba.

>Like all the African countries that were made in the 20th century?
lmao, seriously kiddo? Those countries had over dozens of regime changes and are pretty much failed states.
>hitler was a socialist
burger education, everybody. Anyway, putting commie flag on for clarity

But are still around...

I should have been clearer then. "Arround and not internally dysfunctional". African failed states exist only but on the map, African societies are deeply tribal, and often you see ethnic conflicts in Africa masked as political conflicts. It's a mess. Guess who did an amazing job fixing Africa before fascists paid by France killed him? A socialist, Thomas Sankara.

bump

But that's not real communism. Funny how socialists only claim it's communism when there's something good about it.

> Korea lost half their country and cant recapture it for 60+ years loser. fags

> cuba lost guantanamo bay and cant recapture ITS OWN BAY for 60+ years. how the fuck are these fag countries successful?

One thing that commies forget to ask themselves, is if the countries that are closer to communism/socialism improved their standard of living by implementing more socialist policies, or by implementing capitalist policies.

Almost every time you see a country doing well, even if you call them socialist, they improved by becoming less socialist and more capitalist.

Are you thinking of moving to Venezuela too?

>Lose my virginities, loose women help

>are still arround
Wow such achieve very impress

>existing while your citizens eat their pets & can't afford toilet paper is the same as being a prosperous nation with a successful economy

WEW. Ask the Venezuelans how well all that socialism is working out for them. Or the North Koreans how all that freedom feels. I'll wait.

Fuck off, you disgusting Russian rape baby kike. Gas yourself.

>being still around
That's a pretty low standard.

I'm a Marxist-Leninist. It is real socialism.
Their infrastructure got bombed to shit and the USA besieges them since ever.
Oh so you are underage.
>Almost every time you see a country doing well, even if you call them socialist, they improved by becoming less socialist and more capitalist
Untrue. USSR had an unprecedented rise in living standard under Stalin after WW II which destroyed half the country. So did every socialist country, Mao also achieve a massive rise in living standards. It's revisionist policies (giving managers of firms more freedoms) that lead to debt, corruption and shortages.
Now there is a case where it really isn't socialism. Venezuela has 2/3rd of their industry in private hands. Venezuela was an attempted populist social democracy that overly relied on oil and refused to diversify its economy - you know, something that Marxist-Leninist countries ALWAYS do.

>Now there is a case where it really isn't socialism.

EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. #notrealsocialismwhenitgoeswrong

so by this logic an 80 year old homeless person is successful. i can't wait to tell those old successful bums to fuck off.

>talk about DPRK and Cuba
>strawmans me with Venezuela
Unhealthy obsession with that country, buddy. Stop watching Molyneux videos.
>MUH FREEDUMZ
You can't hide the fact you are a burger. The alphabet soups know more about you whenever you purchase something off Amazon than the North Korean secret police ever will.

>Untrue. USSR had an unprecedented rise in living standard under Stalin after WW II

Those are fucking lies, stalin create a police state of terror that killed almos one third of their entired population closing russian doors to everysingle other country so those statics are bullshit and make up

You just lose all your points saying "Stalin rose living standars"

Unlike in burgerland, homelessness is unknown in Cuba and North Korea. You BTFO'ed yourself.
So wait, privately owned industry is socialism now? Even the fucking Wikipedia defintion disagrees with you.

>Untrue. USSR had an unprecedented rise in living standard under Stalin after WW II which destroyed half the country. So did every socialist country, Mao also achieve a massive rise in living standards. It's revisionist policies (giving managers of firms more freedoms) that lead to debt, corruption and shortages.

They were able to do it for a incredibly short time only.

Any commie can increase government spending and improve the country for a while. But it doesn't come for free. after spending so much money inflation comes and the supposed miracle gets debunked. It's nothing but a pyramid scheme.

Forgot communism was your trigger word. Can't wait for you to take power and try your pure, infallible form of socialism only to have it fail and then have your successors claim that it wasn't real Marxism or Leninism or socialism or whatever you thieves and murderers disguise it as. You know it was Stalin who coined the term Marxism Leninism, right?

I appreciate commies like you who don't use cheap tactics when trying to debate. Bringing up Thomas Sankara is a smart move. I'd be cool with socialist Africa. It'd be perfect. Abundant gibs for niggers in their homeland. They'd never have a reason to leave. We could have a global NatSoc paradise and send the undesirables to permanent summer camp in Socialist Africa.

But you're wrong about socialism/communism on every other continent, unfortunately.

>MUH FREEDUMZ

Actually enjoying the freedom to access the world wide web is something i'm glad i have. Sorry if that rustles your jimmies, Jew rape baby. Not everyone wants to live in a world where you are completely cut off from other civilizations and endless amounts of information. But you filthy rat kikes would love nothing more than to keep us all in shackles slaving away for your degenerate destructive ideologies which are in reality serve the exact same purpose as unbridled capitalism. When will you faggots realize you are just the other side of the same Jewish coin.

DPRK has such a big famine problem that people don't grow taller than 5 feet from malnutrition. But since they are still around, must be great.

express.co.uk/news/uk/606365/Cuba-Pope-visit-homeless-social-cleansing-communist-government-Commission-Human-Rights/amp

I'd rather be homeless in Burgerland than a slave to a socialist regime.

>It's nothing but a pyramid scheme
That's literally fascism.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mefo_bills
Socialist economic systems don't have accumulaton and reinvestment cycles. It is not a capitalist economic system. Show me where the great debt crisis is in Cuba or North Korea. It's is fucking funny, capitalism continues to crash since two centuries based on debt crisis yet you think socialism suffers from captialist boom and bust cycles?
Communism is a stage of history, not an economic system. Socialism is the transition to communism. I'm just using correct terminology. I know it was Stalin. So what? Stalin did nothing wrong and was a faithful successor of Lenin.
Well considering that socialism still somehow managed to lift supposedly brown and yellow people out of their miserable living standards it is probably going to be a blast for white people then, right? Marx was wrong about a revolution in the first world though. Imperialism and Social Democracy pacified the workers in the developed countries.

Cuba had fucking nukes in the same way Turkey had nukes. That's why.

>tfw your shit-tier ideology gets permanently BTFO by fresh produce that isn't potatoes

>shills for lolbert shit
>fascist flag
kek
I admit that, this was in the 90s. I literally adress this in my OP, imports of fertilizers and pesticides from the USSR stopped after 1991, and North Korea is not exactly very fertile land and remember, they can't trade with anybody. What do you think happens to Luxembourg when you cut down all the food imports? Still, they have overcome that, and the next generation probably won't have the issue of malnutrition.

>yeltsin
Are you trolling? Yeltsins laissze fair market capitalism was a fucking diseaster.

>Thomas Sankara

"government eschewing all foreign aid, pushing for odious debt reduction, nationalising all land and mineral wealth and averting the power and influence of the International Monetary Fund (((IMF))) and (((World Bank)))."

/ournigger/

REDDIT GET OUT!!!!!! You are a bluepilled cuck who swallows the Lugenpresse's cum if you think Kim Jung Un is an (((evil dictator))). Kim will fuck your bitch any day of the week, no doubt about it.
youtube.com/watch?v=ZZu1-4fZOck
youtube.com/watch?v=cGfTguMf8NY
youtube.com/watch?v=zCjpxZDTyqs
youtube.com/watch?v=FtDWYzwwuUs
youtube.com/watch?v=Q_JZS_j-pkQ
youtube.com/watch?v=fNoOOCHvQF4
youtube.com/watch?v=2QMQwa6j_hc
youtube.com/watch?v=LGE2FOsQ1tk

Accumulated links:
rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/

liberationnews.org/my-trip-to-north-korea-13-misconceptions-corrected/

vngiapaganda.wordpress.com/pro-dprk-propaganda/

American Think Tank (so it can't be accused of propaganda) with sometimes good insight into North Korea:
38north.org/

Take the Juche pill

>shills for lolbert shit

WEW
>implying fascism means no access to internet
>doesn't realize fascism was created by Mussolini who was a radical socialist, but realized socialism & Marxism were fucking retarded so created his own ideology designed to help the common man
>shills for Jewish control of the Earth while complaining about one of the few ideologies designed to protect people from Shekelsteinrothsberg

kys or gtfo newfag

North Korea is a national socialist ethnostate.

Both countries are shitholes worse than their non-commie counterparts.

REDPILLS FOR NEWFAGS

...

...

This fucking gif always slays me

>EU
>defending totalitarian gommunism
Really makes you htink

90s as fuck.

Haiti is definetly worse than Cuba. South Korea? Didn't get its entire industry bombed to shreds and still managed to get outcompeted by the Norks in the 60s and 70s only until they get propped up by billions of burgerbux and implemented a state run economy with literal 5 year plans.

There is Internet access in Cuba. In North Korea, they have their own intranet and recently started distributing their own brand of smartphones.
>jews
Literally no Jews in Cuba or North Korea whatsoever

See North Korea is the most sanctioned country in the world, an can only trade with China. Still, their country has a standard of living on par with yours.

Russian capitalism wasn't done right.
Problem: Russians are brainless to manage a country on their own. USSR was only moderately successful because of a large Jewish intelligentsia.

>Haiti is definitely worse than Cuba
That's because Haiti is full of niggers

explain Venezuela, g*rman. I want to laugh at you.

>Now there is a case where it really isn't socialism.

You people are fucking delusional, lmao

>Doesn't know the difference between Internet and intranet
>Doesn't question why he's never seen a single Cuban poster on Sup Forums other than the occasional tourist once per year posting on a smartphone

You're not the smartest lightbulb in the crayon box, are you kiddo?

Cuba used to be one of the best Latin American country, now it only competes with centracas. There's Cuban diaspora living in most LA countries, yet no one wants to emigrate to Cuba.

>Cuba

You mean, the nation where the average age of an automobile is 60 years and people can't even get proper eyeglasses to be able to read because they're so fucked?

>DPRK

I won't even dignify that retarded statement with a snarky answer, it's so fucking stupid.

So after your logic Somalia is a good example why capitalism doesn't work. Right? You can't say "not real capitalism" now.
>basing my entire worldview on the fact whether or not I have access to the internet
>fucking Sup Forums being in any way representative
Leave your basement once in a while.

Alpha as fuck.

>Still around
>Population is literally starving

You're a special kind of stupid nigger aren't you?

Wrong. There are even American students who study there because they can't afford it in the US and Cuba has one of the best medical systems in the world. Also, those diaspora Cubans are getting gibsmedat as fuck from the US which usually treats immigrants like shit solely for political reasons.
Cuba has a higher literacy rate than the US, try again.
>I won't even dignify that retarded statement with a snarky answer, it's so fucking stupid
So you don't actually have any arguments against what I said.

Oh just wait, he spent all his time talking about how great it was before, but now that you pointed out how bad it is he'll come back with "It's not real socialism".

lmao you can't make this shit up. The goal posts never stop shifting.

Oh you're right. I guess i should just bring up the concentration camps, how no one has access to decent food or healthcare, everyone lives in squalor except for the party members, etc... But no, if i do, then it's "not real socialism".

>Population is literally starving
Not true. There used to be a shortage in the 90s for obvious reasons which I stated already (ardeous march) but not anymore. Fox News bullshit.

...

Cubans are the most successful Hispanic group in the US, try again shill. Not even Brazillian commies want to go to Cuban hospitals, kek.

Except I didn't do that. Also, it was you who kept shifting the goalpost. You are absolutely dishonest and Mussolini would have hated you.
>HURR DURR CONCENTRATION CAMPS
I'm not gonna make any more comments on the fact that you literally post with a fascist flag but I'd like to see those alleged concentration camps. USA has more people in prisons than the DPRK right now, and penal labor exists in most countries. But once there is penal labor in a socialist country, it's suddenly a concentration camp? Just admit you are a liberal at this point dude.

Nominal GDP: $25 billion
Per capita: $1000
That's actually starving. Why are you communist shills so fucking retarded?

>Believes what the (((mainstream media))) says about North Korea.
Let me guess, you don't think the Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag either? North Korea is national socialism.

Yeah no shit the way the US pampered them.
>Not even Brazillian commies want to go to Cuban hospitals, kek
Tell me Ronaldo, don't have Brazilian hospitals this thing where you pay upfront otherwise you get fucked? You country literally imports Cuban doctors from Cuba because it is unable to provide them with medical care:
forbes.com/sites/billfrist/2015/06/08/cubas-most-valuable-export-its-healthcare-expertise/#6bd43275195e
Also:
theguardian.com/society/2015/jun/30/cuba-first-eliminate-mother-baby-hiv-transmission
Yeah sure sounds like bad quality healthcare to me, lmao

Lol, competed against the most powerful empire on earth while having a major material and population disadvantage.
Continues to BTFO America at every turn after major political and economic turmoil and a complete turning of the system.

Largest nation on earth.

Tell me again how they're incompetent. (Reminder, burger, that the state of your dragon's tail empire is largely due to underestimating your enemies.)

all those empty office buildings

Remember to archive
>forbes com/sites/billfrist/2015/06/08/cubas-most-valuable-export-its-healthcare-expertise/#6bd43275195e
archive.is/WGiJU
>theguardian com/society/2015/jun/30/cuba-first-eliminate-mother-baby-hiv-transmission
archive.is/bAhXY

Thank you.

At least its not full of disgusting advertising and shit.
S-Sorry

>Tell me Ronaldo, don't have Brazilian hospitals this thing where you pay upfront otherwise you get fucked
No, you're clueless. Cuban hospitals look like dilapidated crackhouses and that doctors deal was a money laundering scam. I used to work at a federal court and tens of such doctors applied for asylum in Brazil.

Anyways, I don't feel like discussing with leftypol trolls, have a good night.

>Anyways, I don't feel like discussing with leftypol trolls, have a good night
So you got extremly buttflustered once I stated the fact that your country literally needs to import doctors from commieland to provide healthcare to people. Shouldn't have brought up the topic then, out of all things you could critisize about Cuba you literally brought up their strongest suit out of everything - not a good debate tactic.

North Korea is known to have a canabilism problem due to lack of food. Cuba doesn't have an economy for consumer goods, such as cars for example. You would consider these successes? Fire up the helicopter boys.

>North Korea is known to have a canabilism problem due to lack of food
Now where did you get those horror stories from? Post proofs billy.
>muh sports cars
Obviously since no car corporation actually exports stuff into Cuba. I can't speak for Cuba but the USSR for example could have had amazing sportscars (they were a spacefaring nation) if they wanted to. They just decided not to do it and use resources in different ways. In socialism, commodified status symbols like cars and watches become obsolute because it is more of a meritocracy where scientists, poets, artists and philosophers are revered and not decadent chads who drive arround in daddys Mercedes. It's an economy with production for use - not for exchange, which is the case in capitalism.

Cuba sux dik

HIS NAME WAS SETH RICH

youtube.com/watch?v=8_QnE9-iK80

>Decades of gommunism
>Suddenly adopt fullblown capitalism

Should have converted it slowly, of course it caused total chaos.

Any way KYS commie faggot.

we didn't import those ""doctors"", the socialist government did (amid protests from the entire country). It was revealed later that many of them were officials from Cuban military. Gee, thats strange, right? Why a socialist government at its peak would bring military from other countries and send them to regions controlled by the MST paramilitary group?

It's true, extremely centralized authoritarian governments, led by an aristocracy that regards the populace as their slaves or livestock and maintain their power through fear and cult-of-personality are quite stable. However, most of us aren't landed gentry, likely to obtain such positions of luxury and unaccountably, but rather occupy a position in the slave class.

In short, it doesn't "work", not because it is unstable, but because most people would prefer not to be slaves.

If that isn't clear to you, try knocking your brain loose with a hammer, and think it through again.

>Should have converted it slowly, of course it caused total chaos.
It did, since 1956 when Krushchev denounced Stalin. Capitalism is just general shit.
Wait, are you claiming Rousseff was a socialist? topkek
>It's true, extremely centralized authoritarian governments, led by an aristocracy that regards the populace as their slaves or livestock and maintain their power through fear and cult-of-personality are quite stable
I don't like the US and Clinton as well.

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2269094/North-Korean-parents-eat-children-driven-mad-hunger-famine-hit-pariah-state.html
First result from a quick google search.
>2017 and we still can't search for what should be common knowledge on the internet

Who needs cars, right? Or watches. Those things are useless. Clothes? Phhhht. It's warm down in Cuba, they'll be fine. Public transit? Nah. People should learn to enjoy where they are. Why have nice things when we can focus on science and art instead!?
Name one world famous Cuban scientist. I'll make it easy for you and accept an artist instead. What about Cuban public works? Any great architecture or culture coming out of Cuba these days? What about science? They got a space program nobody told me about?

Wow, so NK is basically everything to which Sup Forums aspires. WTF I hate Sup Forums now.

yes, she was a former Guerrilla, owner of a trash store and Lula's puppet. But she was also a dumbass.

Lemme check the sources in this article quickly
>South Korean state-run Korean Institute for National Unification
literally "Kim fed his uncle to feral dogs" tier.
>Who needs cars, right? Or watches. Those things are useless
They have cars and watches. It is a difference whether a consumer good is a basic necessity or a status symbol. The latter is caused by capitalist commodity fetishism.
>Why have nice things when we can focus on science and art instead!?
Cuba is a fucking small country which isn't as debeloped as Switzerland for example. Let's make it a fair game, name famous artists and scientists from Haiti and the Dominican Republic! The USSR had plenty of inventors, scientists and artists. Tarkowksy movies are one of my favourites and Shostakovich is my favourite composer.

Maybe. But she didn't implement anything particulary socialist so it is rather bold to claim that Brazil was socialistic under her rule.

>since 1956
It was during the Perestroika reform that there where "market-esque" systems build.
And that was during the 80s.
Until then nothing near similar to capitalism in the USSR.

>Capitalism is just general shit.
I rather take this shitty capitalism than your meme ideology.

>It was during the Perestroika reform that there where "market-esque" systems build
Wrong, Krushchevs reforms abolished quotas on enterprises and gave managers economic freedoms which made them proti-capitalist. The USSR between the 1956 and 1989 was leaning more and more towards some degenerated from of market socialism instead of Marxism-Leninism. Market forces appear whenever there is production for exchange which leads to commodity production, whether they operate in hiding or openly.
>I rather take this shitty capitalism than your meme ideology
I bet a supporter of feudalims in the end of the 18th century would have said the same when some people advocated for capitalism and democracy.

>on par with your living conditions

Sure except yknow, the whole food thing.

We had it during the 15th century called mercantilisme.
Even defeated France under the Burgundian.
To convert to this system and abolished serfdom.

It ushered in a golden age.

Did you know that breadlines where invented in the US?

Good point, if those protocapitalist moves were never made the Union wouldnt have collapsed in the 90s.

Why do communists pretend that capitalism doesn't work when the whole fucking world BUT Cuba and DPRK are still around after centuries of continuous growth and improvement of the standard of living?

the Brazilian state is socialist - it is based on socialist values, has lots and lots of bureaucracy and has socialist institutions all over the place. Saying it was or was not socialist at a given moment is invalid
Dilma promoted socialism heavily. She went from trying to indoctrinate kids on homosexuality to force affirmative action on universities and public enterprises. On economy, she increased taxes on imports, gave power to the central bank so it would have a bigger influence over the economy, lent money to allied businessmen via BNDES and her minister Guido Mantega tried to take steps towards nationalization, plus he released false data about key elements like inflation. Now the economy is crumbling, not like Venezuela because of the opposition and the fact that our institutions are solid, but crumbling nonetheless.

>famine was invented
>in 1930

Easy there retard.

lol I visited Cuba on a trip for school in 12th grade, it's a fucking shit hole. All of our tour guides had a script to read from where they had to praise Castro. People lived in houses made of dirt with no doors on them. Gangs own all of the big hotels in Havana.

Mercantilism is the transitional stage from feudalism to capitalism, but it isn't fully capitalistic as yet. Capitalism is defined by private ownership of the means of production and wage labor.
>It ushered in a golden age
We Marxist analyze that capitalism is definetely and improvement from feudalism but do has its own contradictions, such as monopolization and falling rate of profit. Yet in this golden age child labor and the social question were massive problems which eventually gave birth to the labor movement. Unemployment and all that didn't exist before, you know. But in any case, what can you do to revive 19th century capitalism again? You'd have to literally break up all the trusts and oligopols and try to rest global capitalism. Good luck with that. Those times won't come back.

democrats are wrong about everything

if we had kept monarchy in 1800s to now we be 400x as rich

if we kept capitalism of 1800s usa which ended slavery and child labor, 100,000x as rich

Dude, homosexuality and and high taxes aren't socialism. Literally consult a dictionary. Socialism = collective worker ownership over the means of production. This isn't "not real socialism" it is the commonly accepted definition which is different from - what you just described - a regular social democracy.

youtube.com/watch?v=v-XS4aueDUg
yeah cuba looks like a great place to live in

I'm going to call it a night. Hope some people may reconsider their view about what socialism is and don't get their info from alt-right youtube channels. Remember always to be critical about what the mainstream media puts out if you want to be truly politically incorrect.