Do you think Universal Basic Income would be a good thing given jobs increasingly being taken by automation?

Do you think Universal Basic Income would be a good thing given jobs increasingly being taken by automation?

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No
Systemic elimination of inferiors is the only way to "solve" automation

>Do you think Communism is a solution to [Insert problem]
No

UBI is socialism and opposed to free market capitalism

No, but Canada will adopt it anyways. You'll find out why it's a bad idea soon enough.

>would stealing even more from people be a good thing

yes but only if we strictly limit immigration and kick out all the illegals

free shit is my birthright as an american

No, jobs have been lost to industrial revolutions in the past and new jobs emerged the same thing will happen this time around. Instead of wasting time trying to sneak in communism the government should be looking at what jobs are likely to be required in the future and start helping to foster those

youre fuckign stupid for asking

Based Swede. Hang in there bro.

This is the cheap and environmentally friendly option.

this, learn to swim

NEGATIVE INCOME TAX NOW

I'm starting to think so...but it should be at a minimum at first and should only go up when there's less jobs being created

>It'll work this time because robots.

fbbp

Not really, but at least it doesn't incentivize perpetual unemployment like the current welfare system does.

Yes.
Its either UBI or start culling the surplus of people.

We cant sustain this constant growth in population with adequate and meaningful jobs. Especially in countries being flooded with immigrants.

It's free money right? The gov just prints more?

No, I think jobs increasingly being taken over by automation is a good thing because of an aging population.

This way we will have fewer people to do work, but also less work that needs to be done.

There's no need for any "Basic Income" because this massive boost in unemployment should never happen.

That is, unless there's massive immigration at the same time. That could definitely cause unemployment. So we simply prevent that.

No. Employee owned co-op type things are the future not permanent welfare. Very few marxists would hate that, but the globalist corporatists who fund them would!

its coming little nigger

you'll see when 50% of the jobs are taken if its so stupid.

Not unless automation fully removes scarcity in every way will people not be able to work for a living.

No. Stop taking gibs. Stop giving power to the state.

>How about a free lunch, would you like that?
user, I...

fuck off, leaf

>all the jobs are being taken by automation
>5% unemployment rate

No. If you, as a country, have such a surplus of money — lower fucking taxes or something. If you don't have a surplus of money in the first place — this poorly veiled gommunism will make things even worse.

>increasingly

youtube.com/watch?v=sIlCR4eG8_o

haha you realize they wont allow those trucks to drive without a person in the driver seat right? we arent going to place full faith in the AI.

% unemployment rate

Not in Europe. And not when your economy crashes this or next year

AI lanes

i didn't point to driveless truck technology to show it fulfilled, again I wrote increasing. The technology is getting better and better this way and in a few years perhaps there will be completely driverless trucks.

not our fault socialism is failing in europe. maybe they should become more capitalistic like the US and their unemployment wouldnt be so low.

cost of AI lanes vs cost of a driver, which do you honestly think is cheaper and more practical?

it doesnt matter if the trucks can be completely autonomous, the law makers wont allow them to drive on the road unless they have a human behind the wheel.

you do realise that as technology progresses this is bound to change right?

No.

Proponents of UBI fail to understand that pricing is a mechanism for distributing goods when there aren't enough for everyone to get what they want.

>UBI comes out
>poorfags all decide they want to get a better place to live
>more money chases the same amount of housing
>prices rise
>people pay more money to live in the same places

>not our fault socialism is failing in europe
Actually most of the countries on the map aren't "socialist" and the EU is technically the most capitalist institution on Earth (a capitalist economic alliance) so you can't really call Europe socialist. The root of the problem is deeper - our youth simply refuses to work the low wage jobs. I'm sure that if you didn't import all those millions of Mexicans that you'd look the same because both of us are aware of the average american youth - both white neets and black ghetto trash who refuse to work. Merkel is trying to do something similar with refugees but she's dumb and that's another topic

>cost of AI lanes vs cost of a driver, which do you honestly think is cheaper and more practical?
The difference is that the interstate is more of a state property so it doesn't work like that. If I was the US government I'd either dedicate the slow lane for AI trucks or directly build a new lane next to it purely to lift the burden of cost for human labor from US companies and make them hyper-competitive on the world stage. It doesn't matter that the taxpayer is paying as long as those companies bring back taxable revenues due to that infrastructural expansion that doesn't exist anywhere else in the world, you know, much like the sole reason the interstate was built in the first place

that's called inflation.

Many people will be free to do other jobs and its certainly true that there is no shortage of houses in most places, but even if there were to arise a shortage the people will meet that demand by building more. This is no problem.

If you are not improving society then it is off to the gas chambers for you.

lol no it wont and the companies dont even want it. they aren't creating automous vehices to get rid of drivers, they are doing to lower the wage of the drivers. Companies dont want people out of a job because then they wont have customers, they want people to have a job but not have to pay them that much. The companies dont want UBI because that means higher taxes on their businesses and it would undoubtedly cost them more than just keeping the people employed but paying them less. Futhermore the companies would rather pay people to buy their products than the government give the people money to buy anyone's products.

gas everyone as automation increases?

>there is no shortage of houses in most places
It's not a question of an absolute shortage of housing, but rather a relative shortage of housing in desirable areas.

And building more housing isn't something that happens quickly.

TL;DR Supply curve is less elastic than demand curve.

>Many people will be free to do other jobs
People are free to do jobs now. If anything UBI encourages them not to do jobs.

i am in automation
i am the guy that programs people losing their jobs based on certain conditions being met in script
i dont care

>People are free to do jobs now.
People aren't doing other jobs now as to when there will be automation and they'll kind of be forced to pick another job

> If anything UBI encourages them not to do jobs.
that's not how it works in practice. They've found that ubi actually makes people not sit and do nothing but actually motivates them to work.

>They've found that ubi actually makes people not sit and do nothing but actually motivates them to work.
Sauce?

>Companies dont want people out of a job because then they wont have customers
many companies value profits over anything else, if automation is profitable they'll probably make the switch.

Don't accuse me of not being caring for people's jobs I'm against automation to a degree.

lol they dont want to work the low wage jobs because they can still have the same living standard without a job by living off the socialist welfare state. When you remove the welfare you'd be surprised at what people will do to earn money when their life depends on it.

>thinking companies will base their businesses model off of the hope that someday, the slow moving government, will build AI lanes for them. as I explain here
companies dont want people out of jobs

I don't recall but i must have heard it in some ted talk about it or read it in an article about the ontario experiment about it.

Here's an article about it

independent.co.uk/news/business/news/finland-universal-basic-income-lower-stress-better-motivation-work-wages-salary-a7800741.html

its not profitable to not have customers

Profit denial archive.is/jWZYL

no. literal slavery. jewish despotism will quintuple.

>Antifa: The Welfare Begging Thread

no we need to kill the labor class

exactly why would they not have customers because of automation?

How can we encourage college kids to depend on government, and become liberals? Tell them stories about how magic robot Santa, will give them their free lunch.

If I am mass producing something, I am not going to give it to you for free. You mass produce something too, with your automatons, and we'll trade.

>being this stupid

im still waiting for your answer

i bet you have none, you're talking nonsense. Customers don't cease to come because of automation in any way or shape so spit it out or quiet.

Who's going to pay for it? What programs will be cut to allocate the necessary funds?

But you don't produce anything... by giving you money yull go out and spend it thus giving people who actually work money while keeping the uneducated in check

the idea from many of UBI proponents right now is to take tax a portion of the profits from automation to pay for it in part otherwise taxation.

Not really worried for the gutter trash minimum wagers, since you guys still haven't invented a self check register that doesn't go down a dozen times a day for updates.

Universal Basic Income could of course work since money is created ex-nihilo and "economics" in its essence are just behavioural patterns preserved and inherited by mimicry. (which are malleable at any given time)

The one thing that could let it fail though is that people are simply stupid and most of the times act against their own intrerests and well-being.

no theres always going to be inovation unless we get lazy as a species which an attempt at universal basic income would cause. stagnation

Free market capitalism guarantees you will be priced out of the labor market within a decade though. What are you going to do when literally all jobs are performed by machines?

Problem with this itll make people doing shitty jobs to just quit.

Farmers, cleaners, garbage collectors will just quit and receive the same money.

Then you get to enjoy food lines.

UBI is the dumbest idea ever. Seriously communism makes more sense, that's how bad it is.

>everybody gets $1000 a week no matter what or month w/e
>$1000 because basically worth nothing the next day
>you still have to get a job because $1000 has essentially become worth $0
>you stupid fucks

intergalactic colonization nigger no need to cull just send them elswhere we can even have a planet where we send the criminals

What happens when a chinaman steals your product and figures out how to mass produce it with even cheaper robots?

>which an attempt at universal basic income would cause. stagnation
why?

>$1000 because basically worth nothing the next day
why?

Do you really think a bunch of satan worshipping human trafficking elites are going to give you anything when automation takes over? They are kust going to kill you, maybe take some slaves for perpetual harvesting

Stop calling it 'UBI' and call it what it really is, 'Welfare for All'

Yes it might be necessary in 100+ years. But right now in highly capitalistic first world countries the unemployment rate is 10% MAX. The global economy is literally alien compared to 200 years ago and unemployment is still low (in free market countries).

Sadly, this is a possibillity.

But we could always
>if x then y will go full [insert year]
In others words,
we're fucked.

elites aren't all powerful.

They only have the power they are permitted to have over the people.

because instead of being forced to inovate or starve the majority of people will simply consume what there robots give them. struggle is how progress is made

Inflation which would increase quickly because the baseline of value for everyone starts at $1000. The next day is hyperbole but you get it.

(((Capitalism))) is a kike pyramid scheme.

What would make people, ie the ones that grant them such power, remove their power from them?

War?
Famine?

(in other words: nothing has so far)

>struggle is how progress is made
nice meme

>Inflation
read It's all made up.
And yes, made up stuff can be all too real.

>including kids in still in school
people don't work during school years anymore

Personally I'm okay with Universal Basic Food Stamps. However, I think we need to make them for billionaires as well as poor people and everyone in between.

Everyone should receive from every social program... not just the shit poor.

no jobs = no money in consumer's pocket = no customers for companies. Like I said before, companies would rather pay people low wages and/or give workers vouchers for their products and still have customers than pay more taxes and let the inefficienct government give money to people so the people can buy any company's products. Its pretty simple, companies would pay more in taxes if UBI existed than if they just kept the people employed but paid them less and they would be able to guarantee the consumers would buy their products rather than letting people choose who to buy products from.

its not like that.

The people have the power to vote in a democracy but they choose to live in a democracy. All power comes from God.

What the fuck? lol Yeah dude currency and economics are just made up. Why the fuck everything cost money amirite?

>currency and economics are just made up
Of course. Or would you say those are natural materials of the earth?
>Why the fuck everything cost money amirite?
behavioural patterns

>math isn't a natural material
>abstractions can't into reality
>but behavioral patterns

...

imagine taking all the money spent on education, healthcare, transportation, energy, welfare, pensions etc, and simply giving a small amount of cash (350-400 USD) to every adult so they could purchase any services they wanted from the private sector. at the same time you could get rid of most regulations (such as minimum wage) and trade laws so there's more competition and lower prices. this is how UBI could work

>do I think paying people for simply existing is a good thing
No. Fuck off, commie.

But It won't and it shouldn't be tried

>math isn't a natural material
What is math?
A set of patterns humans agree on for expressing abstract thought.
Math is not fixed, hasn't been, and probably won't ever be.
Math expresses thought.
Thought derived from ideas and observation.

>abstractions can't into reality
>but behavioral patterns
Uh, what?

why not? Just stop wasting money on things like education or healthcare and give it to the people instead, if they really want to learn something they can use their UBI to pay for lessons or buy books. milton friedman talked about this in one of his interviews

UBI is not communism. Why would you make a statement like that? UBI gives everyone a stipend to spend however they want.

What does that have to do with 'seizing the means of production'? The choice of what to do with the money is with the receipient.

Not if we kill all Jews first.

Economics is just an observation of how resources are distributed among groups and individuals. Currency is a medium exchange, but you're saying these things aren't real.

If you prefer you could join some colony that relies on barter, so you can have something from the earth I guess.

Whatever the inital amount of UBI is would essentially become worthless in a short period of time. It really won't have the effect people think it would. You'd still have to get a job.

You're correct, but people seem to be unable to grasp the concept :-(

How tf is sven gonna hang in if day by day, he won't be aloud to rise up, because he will be outnumbered.

Swedish men need to get their shit together and start saying "fuck laws! if we do this together now, we can overthrow the jew!".

Yes, but unfortunately I think we would also need an irrefutably fair AI delegating the budget because otherwise it's just going to be a new flavor of communism.

>Whatever the inital amount of UBI is would essentially become worthless in a short period of time. It really won't have the effect people think it would. You'd still have to get a job.
I don't understand this argument. UBI gives everyone the same amount. All this does is increase the spending power every individual has. There is no reason for the price of goods to increase proportionally.

Compare it to a hike in minimum wage, which *does* cause the price of goods and service to go up because the group of individuals that pay employees minimum wage have to recoup the significant losses they will incur from the increased wage payout