Fuck the planet cuz wind turbines are ugly

>Fuck the planet cuz wind turbines are ugly
A new thread about energy generation. Old thread here

Other urls found in this thread:

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Weisweiler
news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/
aweo.org/windconsumption.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Nuclear, both fission and fusion is the future. Wind and Solar cannot meet the demands, and are overall more expensive. The only thing that remotely comes close to nuclear is hydro, and that is not available everywhere.

You're still retarded. Batteries are expensive as fuck and unreliable.

third for solar is doable if you're not retarded about it

Solar could, eventually, but the amount of money and time required to develop the keystone technologies is a long way off.
Nuclear is the most reliable backbone we have for energy production if we were to totally phase out coal and natural gas.

I'd love it if we could have super efficient solar with minimal environmental impact, but thats still a pipe dream being sold by tech firms who want to defraud ill informed people with good intentions.

>Batteries are expensive as fuck and unreliable.
Is there a pragmatic point to this statement or are you just being a dick on Sup Forums?

What do you suggest as a reasonable replacement?

And when you use terms like "expensive as fuck" to describe an item which is mass produced and costs less than $1 a piece in the modern world you look like a complete dumbass.

Solar power is just nuclear power harnested using a solar panel. Might as well just go full nuclear. It is more reliable, and cheaper. You cannot say that solar energy is eco-friendly when the panels themselves are super nasty for the environment.

Smoke.

Exactly. Even the good old coal fired plants are future, because they generate electricity when needed.
Solar isn't "spinning reserve" that's necessary for a working grid.
I'm trying to say that batteries are literally too expensive to store energy. There is no good way to store energy. The battery in your phone is not enough to store gigawatthours of energy that is needed on the grid. I honestly wish we could do store energy well enough to enable solar/wind energy, but that's not possible.

The fuck are you talking about nigger, nuclear power plants don't produce smoke in the traditional sense.

Basically what he said.
Also you can recycle those batteries. Boom you've created more jobs as those batteries will have to be replaced and someone will have to make them.

The thing is that we have the sun as a constant, its giving us energy, so we'd just be minimizing losses there rather than producing anything on our own. It seems foolish to waste a virtually free resource.

Silicon PV panels are super nasty to manufacture, just like everything else in the semiconductor industry. There are however different types of panels that can product current from different wavelengths. Perovskites are a great example of simple to produce and efficient panels with a greatly reduced impact. Half of the issue is that this is still such a new field there are dozens of potential branches, and none of them get real government funding. We haven't had a solar project like we had a nuclear project back in the day, but thats exactly what practical solar power would need.

And I'm open to discussion, I literally work with the grid in here and wish for a better future.

Chimneys.

Thats water vapor, pal. Its steam.
Nuclear plants are just giant steam turbines.

Hi OP and thank you for your post. That is a very interesting picture. May I ask you for a quick clarification, what is it you think the clouds around the cooling towers (two large roughly cylindrical structures on the right in your picture) is made of? Thanks in advance and welcome to Sup Forums

Solar panels are really expensive if you didn't know. Furthermore they are very bad for the environment, so if it is about cost of being eco-friendly, you already defeated the point. As for free energy, nuclear energy is dirt cheap, and reliable. It doesn't require much to produce a ton of energy.

Steam towers you ignorant fuck.

>implying there are more than several people here who understand baseline need, the demand curve, spinning reserve, energy density, and how the grid works

Expect a lot of people suggesting we replace all generation with solar panels and store the energy in batteries.

with "being retarded about it" i mean spamming solar pannels and hope for the best
If you think about it thermal solar plants in the right locations aren't even a bad idea. Thermal storage allows for short term buffering so you can even deal with peak demand
The downside is it won't work properly in most of Europe, but in places like commiefornia i think it's vastly superior to any other renewable

this Nuclear power plants are not coal plants, the chimneys are just cooling towers

>wanting to kill these beauties

it really is expensive and you have to contaminate more in order to make them than ust keeping with regular energy

Thorium plants are where it's at.

/thread

I wasn't in the previous thread, but this topic is very interesting. Do you mind giving me a tl;dr for those terms? I promise I'll do more in-depth reading at another time.

this. "recicle the trash we should produce!!!1!!!one" retards don't actually get anything about ecology or economy, neighther engeniering.

I know an awful lot about PVs actually, I'm well aware of how they're made start to finish. As I said, there are different ways of taking photons and shooting an electron off of something. I mentioned Perovskites for a reason.
Its entirely possible for us to exploit novel structures to harvest solar power. There just has to be a directed investment into one area. We have well developed and ironed out nuclear energy because a government program brought the best minds in the world together, gave them all possible resources, and had them all collectively work towards that one goal. Solar needs the same.

Literally just water vapor coming out of the nuclear plant

Every nuclear power plants has a chimney, because they burn atom in it.

Dude, there's no tl;dr. I'm a third year university student for a degree about power generation, distribution and storage, and my understanding is still far from in-depth.

Use google.

>implying geotermic energy is not the future.

Well fuck, thanks anyways.

"burn atom"
wtf is wrong with germany now?

Abandon thread guys, the secret is out, OP is on to us, lets slide this to the bottom before it red pills everyone.

Checked

Notice how there's actually hardly any pollution coming out of the boiler stacks since modern regulations mandate it. All you see in the image is water vapour out of cooling towers. Clouds of water going vertical, signalling to total uselessness of that stupid fucking fan.

?? are you on crack?

The point is electricity demand follows a certain demand by the hour, which is impossible to meet with solar pannels and wind turbines because 1. those two are unpredictable and 2. electricity is very hard to store
>b-b-but batteries!
Good luck storing a few GWh or even GW-days with batteries. protip: you can't

Kinetic storage. Velkess a silicon valley startup was developing a cheap one for ~$5k each, which would have been ideal, but they got bankrupt and run out of funding at an early stage. Their 15kwh storage with solar-shingles on my roof would be great to charge an electric car over night. The only problems: solar is too expensive (35k), and non-ugly decent electric cars are too expensive (testa model s). Within 10-20 years we may have enough proce drop. We also need velkess to get going again.

Holy shit, this nigger things the rods are all placed at the center of the combustion compartment and burned into a huge bonfire, while Charley, the fatso is in the employee's room running on his bike to generate electricity

>I'm trying to say that batteries are literally too expensive to store energy. There is no good way to store energy. The battery in your phone is not enough to store gigawatthours of energy that is needed on the grid. I honestly wish we could do store energy well enough to enable solar/wind energy, but that's not possible.
Interesting, I'll take the claim on face value and I wasn't aware of that.

Still it seems better to have batteries than not.

No I just can't understand sarcasm, its a huge problem.

de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraftwerk_Weisweiler

Scroll down for emissions.

kek i was recently reading some underage retarded forums and though you were serious.

Good point, as long as the universe never invents friction this is going to be a huge technological breakthrough

He doesn't need to store gigawatts, only enough to power 1 lamp for less than 12 hours. Convert that lamp to LEDs and your battery solution is even better.

One word: Chimneys.

yeah but this is because solar has been hindered in progress for so many years due to the gas/oil corporations buying out everything they can for as long as they could

if solar advancements received more attention, I think the outcome would become something pretty amazing.

Just look at computers, smart phones & TV's for example and try and imagine someone from the 70's if you could go back in time grasp a modern gaming machine or full HD TV.

The tech is pretty amazing when you think of it from that perspective & I think another 20 years from now, Solar technology would be pretty crazy if there were enough smart innovative people working toward making it more efficient and cheaper etc.

hahahaha lmao

no sir, I'm just a sarcastic asshole who happens to be an engineer with 30 years in the power industry.

how are they bad for the environment?

If I have a solar panel setup on the roof of my house, how is it damaging the environment? It'll be staying on the roof forever accumulating free energy from the sun

>protip: you can't

Thanks Mohammed the Kraut for that amazing piece of knowledge.

It doesn't matter, this is just one problem of solar panels. Another would be to have something consistent. The thing doesn't generate anything at night, when covered in snow, or cloudy/rainy weather. Let's bee honest, who the fuck is gonna shovel a field of snow to uncovered all the solar panels during winter?

Those evil corporations want to make profit. Technology doesn't just make impossible possible.
It takes a fuckton of rare earth metals to make a solar panel. It's not exactly environmentally friendly.

dude.. why are you shilling on Sup Forums for nuclear power plants.. no one gives a fuck. whos paying you? lmfao did they pay you to advertise online so you spend your time shitposting about nuclear energy on Sup Forums?

like whats ur fuckin angle dude.. Jesus Christ.. calm the fuck down.. a coal plant is fine

It would require literally everyone have battery banks in their homes though to make a difference in the way the system works fundamentally, otherwise the price reduction would be negligible and there would seemingly be little value.

I'm sure you know the average home uses a little more than a few LEDs worth of energy during the day. Not to mention businesses.

>overall more expensive
Where's your source nigger

You think just because you post a German wikipedia page that nobody can figure out your bullshit? You literally linked us to a coal power plant. We're talking about nuclear power plants. Fuck off, troll.

You're welcome, Pablo-Shanniqua.
If you need to know more, don't hesitate to ask me.

>using your attack on the low-hanging fruit of arguments against something as a method for dismissing all other arguments contrary to your own
>straw man

is thorium a meme or is it actually viable as a power source?

thats no german.

Answer what I posted.

>if we had thrown more money into solar I'm sure a magical holy-grail technology would show up

All this progress, and still the vast majority of solar power is created by fucking mirrors focusing sunlight onto a pillar of water and a steam turbine.

>you only need to store enough energy to power an LED for 12 hours
What did the retarded leaf mean by this? The world wonders

Nuclear power plants generate electricity when needed. Unlike the shitstains called solar/wind power.
>having absolutely no arguments

The construction of current solar panels are not encironment friendly, it is not the production of energy that is bad, its the production of solar panels.

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/energy/2014/11/141111-solar-panel-manufacturing-sustainability-ranking/
>Although solar energy is a clean alternative to fossil fuels, making the panels themselves can have a negative environmental impact.

Wind turbines require another powerplant for them to even work. aweo.org/windconsumption.html

You will never be able to have just wind turbine power. They will need a non-varying source of power that you can only get with natural gas, coal, or nuclear.

Could you not have multiple smaller batteries instead?

I know in Adelaide, South Australia that Elon Musk had suggested a battery deal with the state government & they actually in the end went ahead with his idea.

They're building a 100MW battery which will be the worlds biggest lithium ion battery & if it's not done within the first 100 days or something its free

I don't see how you couldn't achieve a setup of batteries similar to this to make better use of solar energy, or at least to use it as a primary source of power until depleted and then having to rely on a more "environmentally unfriendly" alternative

i think solars a good idea, I'd like to see it become more innovative and useful.

Say for example you can get some sort of coating on the roof of your home that just looks like a shiny coat of paint on your roof tiles but in reality it actually absorbs lots of power from the sun and lets you re-use it in your home. I can see it getting useful to the point where it wouldn't be ugly big fans or giant batteries being required.

Look up the process of solar panel manufacturing. It absolutely does shit up the environment.

so you are like 55? Anyways, wht do you think the solution is?

Lots of plantfood in the form of CO2, everything else is accepted and normal, that's why they build big chimney stacks, so people don't have to smell the exhaust. The main thing the hardware of the plant does is completely burn the coal and capture almost all particulate waste, otherwise Han's undies would be black from soot. That's actual pollution, real pollution, not your green fantasy shit.

chill out guys, smoke some pot, relax, everything's fine

Nah man its actually the real deal. Liquid thorium reactors are the way to go. The problem is that the average IQ is 100 and half the people are dumber than that so in democratic societies you can't do it.

100mw battery will be expensive as fuck mate, if only for being built in Australia and being subject to 20000 government taxes

Thorium is theoretically the future of nuclear energy production. It's super cheap, super safe, super reliable. But there's not a lot of investment in nuclear thanks to public phobia of the word "nuclear".

>baseless assumption to distract from the point about the straw man
>another straw man
i'm noticing a trend here.

>OP picture is Weisweiler, the coal plant
>being an American

probably true. When will all whites leave invaded countrys and join somewhere to de a reconquista? It is time already.

>super, super, super
look up the history of the prototypes, faggot

Actually, you dont have the whole conversation. In the previous thread, someone proposed to make street lamps solar powered, but the guy said that solar power is useless at night because there is no way to store it.

see the following post
>136176327

Yeah? I wouldn't call making more batteries something that's a good thing.
>still no arguments
I want to hear your opinion on improving the grid in Europe. Come on.

>Say for example you can get some sort of coating on the roof of your home that just looks like a shiny coat of paint on your roof tiles but in reality it actually absorbs lots of power from the sun and lets you re-use it in your home. I can see it getting useful to the point where it wouldn't be ugly big fans or giant batteries being required.
What the fuck? We're not writing a sci-fi novel here.

can someone post a stat of # of deaths in the US from nuclear power?

Yes the context there helps a lot.

when can we do the aristocratic eugenic aryan nation we all want??

You need to understand what a battery fundamentally is. Its a container for electrons. If you look at a chart of comparable energy densities you'll see that the best batteries we can make are pretty horrible when it comes to something natural like sugar. Batteries simply aren't a good method of storing energy, for density, for how they're made, for the amount of loss incurred as they discharge over time.
The most efficient solar thermal stations are heating a vat of salt to deliver power after sun down, because storing heat in a massive salt vat is more efficient than storing electricity in a battery.

lol you make a good point, but i think that your points are just things that would further strengthen solars advancements over time

People would take a look at complaints similar to yours and work on ways to achieve them. For example maybe they might be able to add some sort of heating component on the panels for areas it snows, similar to the demystify feature with car windows.

There are small batteries you can get attached to your house now have a 13.5KW storage capacity & you can get multiple of these attached, so it's definitely doable to cover night time power requirements & these batteries are pretty new on the market still I'd say.. so they'll only get better and more efficient over time.

This is all just my opinion though, I'm not an engineer or someone that has an interest in this field or anything lol

Thats like a 500 word essay homework assignment. I'm up for a couple sentences.

What would God do if he wanted to heat the universe?

You always lose when transferring heat so always go for highly concentrated sources.

Solar power is nuclear power, just don't let the russians build your solar panels.

>muh renewable solar and wind
>require mining specific, finite materials out of the ground to work
Solar and wind are literally as renewable as coal

i don't have an opinion on improving the grid in europe.

I'm not talking about OP's pic, I'm talking about your retardation over here

Why not if they can be recycled after they've been expended?

>cody's lab tier scientist speaking
>listening, gently chuckling
>having a good time with a GOOD beer.

I heard of a group experimenting with chemical storage instead of battery. The science is solid from what I've read and seen myself.

Sauce- abc.net.au/news/2017-05-11/hydrogen-breakthrough-could-fuel-renewable-energy-export-boom/8518916?pfmredir=sm

a battery is chemical storage.

They're expensive as fuck. Do you want to triple your electricity bill?

Choked on my own spit kek

nice. Wht about geotermical energy?? Is it a biable way to use it?