> Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create. No one else is entitled to the fruits of their labor.
> Capitalist: I deserve to take the fruits of other people's labor without doing any work. They have no choice because they will starve otherwise.
B-but muh perfect infallible capitalist utopia has never been tried!
>I'm too stupid to understand what a contract agreement is
>Why won't daddy undo my bad decisions??
this is some weak ass bait
Both are retarded utopian ideologies
But at least there's a good amount of capitalists who are open about their psychopathy and don't bother pretending their utopia is possible.
>I'm too stupid to understand that saving yourself from starving to death isn't a bad decision
>He would starve to death without fatcat paying him minimum wage
>thinks he deserves to live
You will all be sent to the gulag, face it.
>hurr durr why dudnt he jus make his own muney
>wait wut is startup capital?
Imaginary bourgeoisie ideals intended to create artificial barriers to entry to their sekret club.
>wahhhh why won't anybody give me free startup capital???
>i deserve it for free
>kill whoever has it and give it to me because i deserve it
Exactly
exactly
Nobody forces you to work for someone, you can buy a farm for very cheap, live an autarkical life and be 100% entitled to the fruits of your labor. Of course, people want consumer goods, so they prefer to work for someone who can give them a better pay. To demand to use the infrastructure of someone who has worked for it over-time for many years, that would be truly unfair.
Capitalism is a great system, but the state must ensure that capitalists obey the laws of God.
>Only the people who were born with the resources necessary to capitalize their labor deserve to live
>If we let everyone else starve to death, that bottom-rung of society will no longer exist and our problems will be solved
The capitalists own all the land, create tax and regulatory barriers that force you into wage slavery with their system.
>Muh freedom of choice
You're describing communist russia, not capitalism.
And it's what you just said hereHow does it feel to have the same sociopathic thought process as communists?
No, you must be hallucinating because it's not what i said.
Then you're either ignorant about how our capitalist society works or you're about to say "b-but that's not real capitalism"
>Nobody forces you to work for someone
Except the threat of starvation and homelessness.
You accidentally mixed up which word belongs with which description, OP.
>obey the laws of God
This pretty much discredits anything you say.
Why are Americans so ignorant about the system in which they live in?
Are you a fucking idiot?
Hardly anybody in america starves to death.
>Capitalism: two people should be able to enter into a voluntary contract together
>Communism: kill anyone who thinks differently from us
>I deserve to take the fruits of other people's labor without doing any work.
Can you give me an example of this ever happening?
>inb4 muh CEO's
They had to work incredibly hard to get into that position and if you disagree, you've obviously never been a business owner (that goes without saying tho)
Says the psychopath armed to the teeth with assault weapons furiously fapping to the idea of killing leftists.
>Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create. No one else is entitled to the fruits of their labor.
Unless of course you're a kulak, in which case you don't get to keep the fruit of your labor.
Pic related.
People are allowed to inherit and profit from a company without ever putting in a single bit of effort. Nice try bourgeoise scum.
So you're fine with socialist policies propping up the lower class, as long as they still have to work for you in order to move to the middle class.
Interesting.
Kulak's are speculators and oppressors. They should be stripped of all properties and rights.
Based Communism, with a major C.
Like I said, give me an example
>"B-but that's not real capitalism"
LMAO
See, even you don't believe in communism.
>Capitalism: Society should be privately owned by the people who are the best at creating monetary profits
FTFY.
>mass automation happens
>the people rebel and institute a communist society
>automation now allows 1 man to do the work of 100
>individuals start taking advantage of this to own their own factories and land by managing the robots
>some people get upset, but the individuals point out that they are simply following communism, since they (the workers) are the ones who are owning the means of production, and they are not hiring anybody nor exploiting their work
>soon these individuals start cooperating with each other, forming voluntary governments and organizations
>they cooperate to cut off the other commies from resources, while building robotic Privatized Death Squads to mow down anyone who tries to fight them
>the people would fight this, but technically they are still just obeying communism as Marx intended
No, you picked
>ignorant about how our capitalist society works
until people are mature enough, like Jesus and his twelve apostles type not giving a fuck, communism will not work.
That's an added side benefit of capitalism, but it is not the moral reasoning behind it.
Stripping the over-class of their privileges is perfectly aligned with communist principles.
Except there are no fruits under communism.
Nice try ancap scum. Your kind will be the first sent to the camps.
Kulaks were peasants who farmed their own food. If stripping the over-class of their privelages requires taking away the wealth from someone who worked for those fruits with their own labor then I'm afraid you don't believe in communism.
> Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create. No one else is entitled to the fruits of their labor. Ever heard of "Seize the means of Production" faggot?
... Holy shit do you even know what communism is? The government seizes your assets and redistributes it to everyone. You do not get to keep the fruits of your labor, especially if you are in any way successful you dumb cunt.
> Capitalist: I deserve to take the fruits of other people's labor without doing any work. They have no choice because they will starve otherwise.
Fucking capitalism is where you are allowed to privately own your own god damn business and enjoy the fruits of your labor instead of leeching it off from someone else you twat.
Because there is no moral reasoning behind it.
(((You))) don't have morals.
Ancap? I am not an ancap! I am a loyal communist comrade, just like you! Now stay away from my factories, or my robotic death squads will be forced to gun you down for taking away the full value of my labor!
Both stances are blatantly wrong in practice.
In the communist world a worker doing the same job and producing the same object was paid 30% tops compared to his capitalist counterpart. The state indeed was hogging up far more than what was produced to fund it's large oppressive institutions to ensure it's survival and the well being of the political elite.
In capitalist societies people having the capital took all the risks for the prosperity of their companies and usually managed them at peak efficiency or at least far better than a state owned ones. Further more, if workers were not satisfied with the conditions of labor, they are free to go to the company competitors for employment sapping the first firm from it's human potential leading to bankruptcy.
Your willful ignorance is not an argument for communism but to your own ridicule.
Of course there is moral reasoning behind it. If I make an agreement with another man to use his property to make a profit, and in exchange he will take a cut of that profit, I shouldn't be gunned down for making such a deal.
>You're allowed to go through this door.
>Even though the door is locked and I'm holding the key.
>You still have "permission" to go through.
What gulag? Communism got its loosie-woothey toothie caboosies knocked out, and the commies begged screaming and crying for their mommies as they were REKT by Capitalism.
Nobody is going to the gulag. You will not be allowed to steal my property. Your labor is worth what you can sell it for, and not a PENNY more. Period. That is the only empirical definition of value, all of this lying bullshit about "huu huu fruits of muh labor" is literally made up. There is no "fruit" of your labor except what you sold it for, which is what it was worth.
Don't give me any of this bullshit about surplus value. That isn't real. Value isn't created by labor, it's created by demand, and demand is intensified by scarcity and relieved by supply. That's objective fact. You can work as hard as you want on something, if it is plentiful and nobody wants it, it isn't worth shit. This nonsensical lying bullshit, this claim that you're being "cheated" because you sold something to someone else (and yes, your labor counts) and they were able to use that labor in conjunction with other labor and their own wealth to make a profit ISN'T A FUCKING ARGUMENT. You made a profit too. You traded something you had (time) for money. That's a profit.
And what other shitty arguments do we have? "huu huu it isn't voluntary if the alternative is starving," TOP KEK at a Communist sniveling about starvation, who is starving in America? How about Europe. No, "spends all their welfare gibs on crack and fast food" isn't "starving," mass famine and death is starving. That's on you. Communists are a plague on civilization, one that was rightly BTFO'd and will be remembered as a joke ideology in the glorious future, which will probably (to speak of dialectics) be Fascist.
>the jews should own everything in the world because they can make even more profit for themselves!!
We did it reddit!!!!
>The capitalists own all the land,
They don't.
>create tax and regulatory barriers
That'd be Leftists who vote for those things.
> that force you into wage slavery with their system.
You're describing the government. No corporation ever forced me into SHIT. Only low-information Leftists who voted to give them power by expanding the government.
The government is a corporation.
The corporations are the government.
Literally not what communism is.
>let's follow an ideology and not know anything about it
Why is the left such a cancer?
>You are allowed to go through the door
>You have the key but we're taking it from you and we're gonna go through the door, you can stay out here in the cold with everyone else
>If you refuse the join the others in front of the firing line
Well then let's get rid of the government and you're problems with both will disappear.
>literal traitor in charge of knowing anything
We were talking about capitalism, try to stay on topic.
>> Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create. No one else is entitled to the fruits of their labor.
What if they create the means of production?
>if workers were not satisfied with the conditions of labor, they are free to go to the company competitors for employment sapping the first firm from it's human potential leading to bankruptcy.
>Workers can work wherever they want
>Companies that don't treat workers well go out of business
Where's the problem?
Swapping the description of the ideologies is not an argument
Based burger bringing the redpils
And then they'll come back, and tens of millions of people die for the sake of even more tyranny.
Yeah I guess that rephrasing also works.
>being loyal to a country run by satanic kikes
>i need more welfare gibs because im too lazy to take care of myself
I know, we're talking about capitalism. You do know what capitalism is, yes?
So we form our own societies. Kick the statists out to where the authoritarian governments are and embrace the libertarians willing to come work in our free societies.
>What is startup capital?
Get rid of your flag.
>I need more welfare borders because i am too stupid to compete with subhumans
>capitalism
>without state
How much startup capital do you need start mowing lawns?
>implying leftists are human
>>I need more welfare borders because i am too stupid to compete with subhumans
I just dont want them in my country
It has nothing to do with economics
>capitalism
>without state
Implying?
>You do know what capitalism is, yes?
Yes
>Kick the statists out to where the authoritarian governments are and embrace the libertarians willing to come work in our free societies.
Good idea. Why hasn't this happened?
>i need start-up capital to work at a McDonalds
>Why hasn't this happened?
We don't kick people out. We occasionally let people in, but they're usually the wrong kind of people.
>Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create.
That's not what they say, user.
>Nobody forces you to work for someone
>All you have to do is work for someone! Checkmate, commies.
Ok. Why don't "we" kick people out?
By that logic the corporations work for you since they're trying to get you to buy their products and services.
Mate, just have a look at real life. Places where capitalism is more strongly established have (invariably) a stronger and more far reaching state.
Places without strong states cannot host strong capitalist systems. Just take a look at Somalia and pretty much every African country until the 90's. The central government influence sometimes didn't leave the capital city, and what happened to bussiness? That is right, they were non-existent.
Only when the state started to enforce their laws did business started to kickstart
You can't present a single example of a successful ancap system
>working at McDonalds is self-sufficiency.
Are you clinically retarded?
The same embracement of liberty tends to lead to resistance to expel those who threaten that liberty.
>> Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create. No one else is entitled to the fruits of their labor.
>Image front is literally about stripping a man of his literal fruit
Fucking furfag
>implying it's wrong to kill those who work against us
cuck
For a single person
yes
>Communist: Everyone should be able to keep what they themselves create
Unless your a farmer, then all your produce gets stolen by the state and you fucking starve to death, great system.
Stop dragging your feet.
Why does it lead to resistance?
>removing a slave master to implant another one
Wew
>Being utterly dependent on the manager of a fast-food restaurant to employ me and pay me a wage is self-sufficiency
I feel like the entire point of this discussion went over your head.
>Just take a look at Somalia
A failed socialist state?
>pretty much every African country until the 90's
I don't know about the 90's, but I know Africa today is full of over-regulated shitholes (except for Botswana, which is actually doing okay for an African country and coincidentally isn't nearly as regulated).
>You can't present a single example of a successful ancap system
Gaelic Ireland and the Icelandic Commonwealth,
The red pill is if we sterilize the poor there won't be an army of wage slaves for the bourgeoisie to exploit.
then go work somewhere else or start your own business
who the fuck are the capitalists? some mysterious group? Why do you separate them from regular people?
As long as you use a metaphorical and pretty useless interpretation of the phrase "working for you", sure.
>start your own business
What is startup capital?
Read the thread, man.
How is it different?
You do realise that fuckers like you wouldnt last a day if communist revolution in your country ever happened right?
>missing the point so hard
>Gaelic Ireland and the Icelandic Commonwealth,
I asked for successful systems, not some 2 remote shitholes