Why can't libertarians answer this very simple question:

"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"

This is an important question, and without a good answer libertarianism is worthless. There is simply no libertarian solution to natural monopolies, and that is one of the fundamental reasons libertarianism cannot work and has not ever worked.

Libertarians may respond with nonsense like "natural monopolies don't exist in practice," which just outs the fact that they do not have a solution, and that answer itself undermines libertarianism. Libertarianism is almost purely theoretical, but suddenly libertarians become interested in what's "practical" when libertarianism is shown to be inherently and fatally flawed. The fact of the matter is, public property must exist out of the bounds generally subscribed to by libertarianism. Specifically, it needs to exist when you have a service or good that is necessary but for which a free market cannot reasonably exist.

Otherwise, libertarians will default to the real reason why they are libertarians: selfishness. "I don't care. Taxes are stealing!" Protip: the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country. You do not own your "money." The economy is a game, rules made by Congress, and you are player in that game.

Other urls found in this thread:

autoevolution.com/news/fruit-smugglers-build-a-road-over-the-russia-belarus-border-overnight-110606.html
m.youtube.com/watch?v=5oiWPNYr30I
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>PAY FOR MY ROADS!

We aren't anarchist, we want a limited government who does fund roads, the three branches of government, and emergency services

A corporation will charge a subscription fee to those who use the roads to pay for their maintence and construction

Please explain why i am taxed 35% of my income and all the roads and sidewalks in my city are absolute crumbling falling apart shit.

Checkmate doucebag.

Both of these are possible solutions. >Fucking hurr durr who will build MUH roads we need to steal money from people to pay for MUH roads.
/thread

You mean to address AnCap.

>libertarianism is anarchism thread No#3447255

Ding ding ding

Government is for utilities and infrastructure and then gets the fuck out of the way of the market

>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
The same people who do now: private companies.
Governments typically don't build that shit.
The government pays them and last I checked it is possible to pay for shit without having government do it for you.

fuck did I tell you

If you claim to be a libertarian, but want socialist roads, you are not a libertarian. You're advocating for a mixed economy with different bounds Democratic socialists.

There is no objective difference between genuine libertarianism and anarchism. They are the exact same thing under different names. The difference between libertarians and anarchists is that they give different reasons for why they hate government. The end result is the same though.

1. public roads are not built efficiently. Houses are all over the place, and roads often go nowhere. all because public funds are used, so wasting money is ok.
2. roads are not difficult to make. all roads are made by private companies, regardless.
3. a fully private road system would probably be designed and built more intelligently. roads that were uneconomical to maintain would be left to die, and people would have to move and be in more urban living arrangements, only the wealthy could live in the wilderness and have super nice roads which they'd all pitch in to keep good.

>You're advocating for a mixed economy with different bounds Democratic socialists.
roads are not redistributive

>"Who will build the roads and sidewalks?"
whomever has the most to gain, usually some roman types

please examine the works of Henry George and understand that China has been following his economic model for almost a hundred years which is killing us with our inferior Keynes nonsense religion

tfw libertarians don't realize
private companies already build the roads,
the government puts jobs up for bid, lowest bid gets it.
utilities are municipal or public-private partnerships who albeit are lazy, are not any lazier than the average office worker.
The government decides what and where something should be built and collects the toll
The roads are bad because roads don't buy votes. Even when a party passes a bill to fix roads it doesn't change voting patterns. Infrastructure funds have been raided to buy votes.
In michigan they were trying to pass an infrastructure bill and democrats were trying to tie fucking teachers pensions to the issue because they were trying to buy votes.

Unless you plan to tax people purely on their own road use, yes it is.

>efficiency

This is the libertarian fallacy. It actually doesn't matter what is more efficient. This is about ethics. This is about whether or not we can have a system that allows predatory road owners to abuse their power as potentially the only way to reach some place.

You do realize there is already a marketplace in place here? As, put it, private companies are competing for the government choosing (paying) them to build the roads.The difference here is in whether you want 1 buyer (the people) and many sellers (companies) or many buyers (the people) and 1 seller (a company). Preferring the latter to the former means you are a crony capitalist shill.

>how are public roads(built by private companies) not built efficiently? studies?
>what percentage of roads go nowhere's? define nowhere's, farming, mining, forestry, conservation, tourist all use those roads that go "nowhere's"
>would probably? Of course the government is often is inept, so are businesses aka bankruptcy.

the market obviously dictates the construction of off road vehicles, you fucking moron

In a History Channel series called "The Men Who Built America" it was highlighted that men like Chase, Ford, and other business men built roads and bridges because they needed to move their products and get buyers to their products.

A free market also consolidates wealth. It creates dynasties. At some point, some people will own all property and rent it to the serfs.

actually the diametric opposite is true

Of course they did. Nobody denies that there are economic incentives for companies to build into infrastructure. The issue is that there is also economic incentive for them to be shitheads to those with less and the environment. There needs to be regulation so we get more the former rather than the latter.

Libertarianism has no concept of pragmatism which is why it doesn't work any better than communism.

alright we keep fraction of taxes to fund roads and sidewalks, anything else you want?

according to Pennis, it is morally justifiable to force someone to do labour against their will (i.e bake cakes for gay) so the answer would be, anyone that slights the homosexuals will be forced into building the roads.

just have a steady supply of gays harassing christians, and you can keep this up indefinitely, and since Pennis also wants hyperinclusive mass democracy with open borders, if any of the native christian group dies out from their slavery building the roads.

just take any of the imported groups, i heard South America is christian so just have the gays antagonize them to get more workers for the roads

and if anyone says this violates the NAP, you are wrong, Penn Jilette said it doesn't

God will build it, check mate trash man!

What is the "diametric" opposite?

>the social contract you signed at birth was not for a libertarian country
yes, I soundly remember consenting to and the physical signing of a contract at birth...

No you fucking retard there is no "social contract" I dont consent to filling your needs at gunpoint and telling me that it is my birthright to do so. Fuck you saged

**Fruit Smugglers Build a Road over the Russia-Belarus Border Overnight**

autoevolution.com/news/fruit-smugglers-build-a-road-over-the-russia-belarus-border-overnight-110606.html

>lolbertarianfags devote life to retarded political philosophy
>someone asks then about roads
>realize their entire life was a lie

all libertarian/deregulation fags should be forced to go to Beijing and spend a week outside with no mask.

kill yourself shill rat

All the roads and sidewalks in your city can't be fixed with $3,500

>This is an important question, and without a good answer libertarianism is worthless.

Nobody... we don't need it. Everywhere you travel will be private property so you should not be there anyway

So who will pay? And who will use? Will others use for free? Dumb shit.

-Publicly-funded healthcare.
-Environmental and health regulations on businesses.
-no private prisons

Because you live in America.

>Government is for utilities and infrastructure and then gets the fuck out of the way of the market
If you think it's even possible for a body of corruptable human beings to remain chained when you've already conceded to them the codified 'right' to violate people's property rights, you are FUCKING RETARDED. The minarchist delusion is that they can harness the evil of the state for their arbitrarily selected ends and keep it from leaking into every aspect of life. This is a patent absurdity, and one only need look at the history of the United States to see why.
Stop being lazy. Study stateless defense and law and start actually being philosophically consistent. Otherwise, you're just statists pretending to love liberty.

It's hilarious how people here think that regulation is inherently wrong. Without regulation we would be eating the most adulterated food you can imagine - even more the shit that gets fed to americans. Also, we would be living in horribly poluted cities, not just in terms of smog but noise and light pollution at unprecedented levels. Regulation is very important you stupid libertarian retards.

>Socialist total government is proof that libertarianism won't work.

China is a gleaming beacon of deregulation.

This question has been asked and answered so many times, it's a running joke among libertarians and ancaps. There's even a subreddit called whowillbuildtheroads to mock this question.

I'm not saying that the libertarian/ancap answer is RIGHT, but if you're asking this question, it's obvious you don't have the knowledge base to even discuss the topic effectively yet.

>what about roads and sidewalks

we all have lifted trucks with stubby tires bro

>I NEED DA GUBBMINT TO LIVE AND TAKE CARE OF ME

literally a nigger-tier argument.

you're joking right? the road question is literally the easiest for anyone with an IQ >90 to answer. Even the harder ones, law and defense, only require some light reading or a sharp mind to deduce on its own.

You seem upset, go eat a big mac and calm yourself down

Its retarded if youre yourself retarded, dont buy fucking burgers if you wanna eat healthy...

Private roads exists everywhere, its nothing weird.
Beside libertarians believe in small gov, as in military, police, law and R O A D S.

at least we have big macs, you spotted-dick and/or girl-kebab munching prick

Probably private construction companies, likely the same companies that build roads today

those are bitch-tier libertarians. Ancaps are the only real libertarians.

This is a top tier reply imo

>Own a car
>Equipped with GPS toll system
>Each road you take charges a small fee to your account delivered to the owner of the road

Pretty fucking simple, just like that we eliminated the need for a war mongering police state that covertly dismantles other countries and kills millions, that was hard, stupid fucking socialist

How can lefties even compete?

I'm actually surprised that Penn, a libertarian, said that, but he's almost not completely wrong here.

The issue with the typical libertarian stance is on business freedom is that it implies that the civil rights act, for instance, is not right. That is wrong. You should not be able to participate in the economy, a publicly-funded and regulated venture, while discriminating against others.

However, it's an unjustified infringement on your free speech to say that you must bake a gay cake. There is a difference between denying service to someone and refusing to express something you don't agree with. In the case of the gay cake owner, he would have made other cakes, just not a gay one. That is fine, and that's where people's right to boycott his business becomes the check, not the government.

He authorises the government to run things he doesn't want to have to spend his life chasing around after. Noise, light and air pollution are good examples he used, why should he have to fight every pig who gets a buck out of turning his neighborhood into a noisy, dirty shitfight?
There's checks and balances built in so the state can't infringe on his rights and he has recourse if it does.
Your post was definitely nigger tier tho.

What good is a vaccine if you can't force people to take it?

>muh roads
>muh sidewalks
into the trash you go

>Needing (((roads)))

I know how much it has been asked. I just felt like illustrating why libertarianism is stupid so people don't forget.

>"roads"

mfw

>who will build the roads so that hundreds of millions of vehicles can burn fossil fuels into the atmosphere just like they do today
>REEE BUT POLLUTION MUST BE REGULATED BY A CENTRAL BODY

>56%
You clearly have an exaggerated ego if you think you are immune to corporate propaganda, or that other people being unhealthy has no effect on you.

Invent flying cars, lol. Are you even trying?

needing roads even once...

yes, quite a success there, friendo

> Mommy, people who didn't pay for it are touching my stuff!

This is why government will never go away. Someone will always want to make someone else stop doing something that natural law allows, and they'll need an organized military force to do it. And as soon as it's done, the military force becomes a government enforcing whatever man-made laws it wants to.

Anyone can make a road.

MUH ROADSSSSSS

Niggers and Jews.

who built the railways and why? fuck off now

and literally teenagers with a truck can fix potholes as well, its neither difficult nor expensive to do.

Great bait.
I reckon the same people who build them now, would be simplest as they already have the expertise. When did you last see a politician with a shovel, leveling the ground or preparing the asphalt?
Politicians are not needed for the construction of roads.

>driving on roads
>not climbing 45+ degree angle

NOTICE ME OP

NOTICE MEEEE

You are some ignorant faggots. Libertarians accept that there will be a government, and view it as a necessary evil - to fill a power vacuum that would otherwise exist. Once you have a government, things like roads can be one of its purposes, though few libertarians would say that there can't be private (toll) roads. An idea that few libertarians would balk at: Have a fuel tax that is earmarked for road building. The more fuel you use, the more likely that you are going to use those roads and put wear and tear on them, and thus the more you pay for them. As it stands now, fuel taxes typically go into general funds and can be used for whatever.

I think car and insurance companies have a bit of an incentive

Hop in OP!

>op in the backround with his inhaler

I will

The more regulations you have, the more police you need to enforce them.

This is why populist governments always turn into police states. Only capitalism can accurately allocate resources without requiring a dictatorial regulatory burden.

libertarians hate roads

They fear construction workes may step on a holy snale so they dont build them

they would build themselves because muh demand n'free market, silly

>no roads
>implying car manufacturers would exist without roads
>implying car insurance firms would exist without car manufacturers

>the social contract you signed at birth

protip: you're an idiot

Government grants to railroad companies for transportation and trade. The Federal Railroad Administration ensures our safety on the railroad, also payed for by our taxes.

So the insurance companies AND the car manufacturers have an incentive for roads to be built?
you just added a solution thinking it was a rebuttal

>Be road owner
>Decide to raise the charge by 5000% one day
>No one can do anything

and Vanderbilt said frigg off to all that and built rails privately way more efficiently then the fat subsidy whores could

"I call for the complete extermination of the global roaddom!"

- Hans Herman Rothbard -chancellor of the Libertarian Party

Here's some party material:

m.youtube.com/watch?v=5oiWPNYr30I

A libertarian society can't deal with mentally ill people, psycho/sociopaths.

>try raising price 5000% one day
>nobody approves the charge
>you try to take thousands of people up on violating the terms at the same time
>nobody gives a shit
>profit goes out the window
>superior businessman buys stock in your company for pennies on the dollar and institutes lower prices and terms of service that guarantee no price gouging
be living under government
>get taxed to pay for infrastructure
>the road owner is the government
>have to pay the 5000% markups because guns
>thisisfine.jpg

They have answered the question. Many times in many ways. There is no one correct way.

You might say, in your view, "Government builds roads" but that is not correct either.

>inherently wrong
we don't need to assume, there are plenty of real world examples

>one man city

How can roads be real if freedom isn't real?

Homemade, unregulated, tax-free Hovercars, bitch.

>fuck roads

>lolbertarian: yea but fuel tax is oppressive! instead of paying the tax on the fuel to pay for roads I'd rather pay with my fancy gps toll. but you see its voluntary to pick what toll road I want to drive! I end up wasting more money and time driving around expensive tolls
Natural monopoly
>tolls maximized for profit not for consumer
>taxes maximized for vote buying and make work jobs.
also private companies already compete during BIDDING to build the road.
>I actually work for a private company building public roads and utilities

also for lolz
>have no money
>need to go to job to make money
>all roads private
>have to take a loan out to get to work.
>utopia

>We want a limited government that only does what's REALLY important.

Hey, me too! What happens if you think something is important and I don't think it is? Or if I think something is important and you don't think it is? Let's settle by you getting part of what you want, and I get part of what I want. We can rally a coalition of willing participants to determine what is "really" important. Of course, we'll need someone to understand how to implement those ideas. So let's get our coalitions together, identify our best representatives by vote, and elect them to enact those programs we regard as most important through law.

My point is that you Libertarians aren't anarchists: you're just Americans. The system you want is also known as the USA. It's just that you want to reset it with "well but not everyone should get a say and we'll reduce 'important' to the just this handful of things that a small group of us think are and no one else should get a say."

What if your terms mention that the price can vary from day to day?

>people believe government does anything
>they build roads!
>with out tax dollars
>they regulate markets!
>with our tax dollars
>they lobby for special interests
>with our tax dollars
>send our money to washington
>have to beg for it back at a state level
>can't afford healthcare myself
>forced to pay for health care for myself and the poor
>pay into social security
>will never see a penny of it


yes yes, the gobment solves everything

GOVERNMENT DO NOT BUILD ROADS.

PRIVATE COMPANIES BUILD ROADS!

PRIVATE COMPANIES BUILD ROADS TODAY!

GOVERNMENT CALL PRIVATE COMPANIES TO BUILD ROADS!

GOVERNMENT DO NOT BUILD ROADS.

THE SAME PEOPLE WH BUILD ROADS TODAY WOULD BUILD ROADS WITH LIBERTARIAN GOVERNMENT!

Jesus FUCKING Christ - it's really not that hard to just try and think.

Just a bit.

Please.