Okay Poland, im not a Holocaust denier and not many people here are, the ones that do deny I believe are from Stromfront, could be wrong though. Besides that, I've come to the idea of wanting to ask people from Europe who where directly impacted by Germany. What are you taught Poland? Was it 6 million? Was it less? Because even though I don't deny the Holocaust the numbers are kind of fussy, but then again I've never talked to a historian on the subject before. I was born in 95 so I don't know it is in schools today in America but I was taught that a mixture of Gipsies, Polish, and, Jews where killed among other smaller denominations. Totaling to about 5-7 million people, but then again, I am nit picking my memories because it was about 7 years ago. So I figure this to be a serious what do?
Question for the people of Poland
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In general, the 6 million figure was a complete guesstimate from the very beginning. One of many anti-German atrocity propaganda items the Soviet Union was so good at manufacturing. They already had the 6 million figure thrown around in late 1944, before any investigation or research was done and before the war was over AND before Auschwitz was captured in early 1945. Really activates your almonds. Google Ilya Ehrenburg and 6 million.
Yeah but people in America don't hate Germans, they just hate Hitler and the high command in general, a good quote from the Supreme Court justice that oversaw Nuremberg said What? Are we going to put the whole nation on trial? In hindsight Americas feel like Germans were mislead by there government. That the normal American, then theres the far left that go to a new level of crazy. Im just saying I don't think Germans are evil, my grandfather is German, and I myself is obviously German. I just want to know what is taught to European folk and how many believe specifically what is being taught. And have any of you spoken to your grandparents? What did they see or learn?
I go off topic in the beginning mostly because I don't want people to think I find others evil or something, Germans in particular on Sup Forums tend to get very defensive about questions like this, and yes I will look into this lily Ehrenburg, but I don't want to be filled with the whole nothing happened at all story I hear some spout off.
I don't remember being taught any numbers in particular just that the Jews were killed and that were many of theme.
Maybe the 6 gorrilion was thrown somewhere but there is no that religious zeal attached to the number that's present to numbers.
>present to numbers
Kek I don't know why I've written this but what I've meant was "present in the West".
6 million people were killed in Polish death camps. As a Pole I openly admit this. We cooperated with Germany and those were Polish run death camps
The numbers are exaggerated but the germans killed a lot of people in said camps, most of them was when they were retreating from Poland.
I had a neighbor long ago and she was a prisoner in Auschwitz and she told us that there germans did horrific experiments on people, mostly medical ones and on children and not many survived those. She said that they did mainly x-ray experiments on her and that she was lucky since others were being hacked to bits. She died of cancer.
You're not fooling anyone, Indonesia
Not a storm-weenie. But I definitely deny the holocaust if by that it means "Jews were killed in gas-chambers". There were no gas chambers. It's all hog wash.
In Poland you can get 5 years in prison for saying "polish death camps" if you are a foreigner. Especially german.
Thats carzy kek
Well I figured polish people where killed as well for not being part of the "master race"?
Thats another thing I'm interested in as to how has not being able to properly discuss it after the reality of it?
>What are you taught Poland? Was it 6 million?
Were not taught muh 6 gorillion. Unlike americans brainwashed by Hollywood were hardly concerned by muh chosen tribe.
They were Polish citizens and it was the only thing that matters to us.
You can talk about it. You just can't publish shit in the newspapers saying "polish death camps" or you can go to prison. No one has been convicted yet though.
Yeah in the west we have a Holocaust memorial in the capital and other what not-ness about how many Europeans who where not German or of 'master race" lineage where killed. I mean the 6 million number has been thrown around a lot but for the most part many Americans don't know many details, just that Hitler hated non nordics and killed a lot of people, the Holocaust is not necessarily a day to day topic that many on here make it out to be.
>Thats another thing I'm interested in as to how has not being able to properly discuss it after the reality of it?
What's there to discuss? The numbers? You're free to do so, they're all rough estimates anyway. Denying existence? That's a bummer. You're not allowed to publicly deny any genocide or warcrime committed against the Polish nation.
I see
Yeah I here stories of not being able to speak on the topic, specially in Germany which I find somewhat understandable but deep inside I still see as wrong, which is such a foreign idea to me being American, because we have people yelling about the flying spaghetti monster.
>im not a Holocaust denier and not many people here are, the ones that do deny I believe are from Stromfront
I don't mean it in that way, I'm just saying, I'm sure polish people suffered and so did Germans for there transgressions. But not being able to discuss a topic adds more to the shadow of doubt, in America like I said earlier its pretty foreign to me. Not to say that changes my opinion or anything I understand full well why that is done, I think we all do to a degree, I mean there will always be those how don't care about the truth and will use freedom abasing itself.
when I learned about holocaust my buddy told teacher that kikes had it coming and he had to write a paper about juden as punishment, but then he faked being sick and it gone away
fun times
but back on topic:
no, I remember that teacher told that estimate death toll was high, 6 gorillion is probably too much and that Polish loses were much more significant compared to others, but we should not forget about any nation that had casualties
KEK
Thats true as well, many Europeans died because of the war, and no singular group should be focused on more then others, but the idea of killing because these said people where not "up to snuff" I guess I should say is a very disheartening thought. I guess what I'm really trying to ask is what to Polls think of the topic in general now that enough time has passed?
we collectively think that germans are to blame for that, they owe us 1 trillion USD in reparations for WW2, and they try to rebrand history so that Poles were at fault, hence "polish death camps"
about jews, we don't care
also, Poles, not polls
I see, so why is Germany history rebranded to blame the poles? For the sake of German pride or is there some truth to there history?
Thats of course if you know what is being taught in Germany that differs from Polish history.
Also what is the point of calling them Polish death camps if they where created by the Germans? And why does Poland outlaw the phrase?
>why is Germany history rebranded to blame the poles
I don't think really gets it. It's not the germans that are rewriting the history, it's the (((germans))). They don't want to build any pride for germans, they just want to shame Poles by painting us as guilty.
In the globalist plan no nation state is allowed to have any pride
for sake of german pride only
if it is as they claim, that Poles executed kikes, why Polish families who got killed for helping kikes so common?
germany have some kind of mental problem, in which they are:
1) unable to admit they have problems
2) unable to admit they are wrong
also, it goes back to medieval times
first, it was not germans who invaded Poland, it was Teutons. Then it wasn't germans but prussians, then it wasn't germans, it was nazis
everybody BUT germans, they dindu nuffin
as a bonus, now it is not germans who invited refugees to ruin europe, but EU
How do the Poles feel about having their clay shift west every time there was a war last century?
Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't you guys just Prussians that got converted to Communism, then Catholicism, and now """""Polish""""" nationalism.
Yeah that's right I'm onto you Prussia. I know you're planning the next European war.
>germans are not (((germans)))
ty z Gdańska czy Katowic?
we have it outlawed and we put great effort in fighting this blatant attempt at propaganda, but guess what: german newspaper who used the phrase most recently, even after losing in court, failed to deliver apology
germany will never ever admit it was them who started WW2, and will alwas attempt to switch blame to either Poland, UK, French, or when everything fails, to muh ebil Nazis
Hitler did literally nothing wrong. Thanks for sucking (((their))) tip. Fuck those 6 gorillion. 14/88
t. Non-stormfag
Makes sense, America does have tweaked history in her favor for the betterment of the pride of the people.
Fair enough as well, I don't discard your opinion and I'm open to ideas, but I must been shown proof before I agree upon a idea
your shitposting is showing
KEK based Aussie
Proof for what? The West using the term "polish death camps"? Proof for there being an international conspiracy to dismantle the nation states? Or proof that shaming nations leads to them abandoning their national identity?
Shut the fuck up you dumb nigger.
>MUH REPARATIONZ
nigger you got 1/3 of germany after WW2 and where do you think the EU gibs are coming from ?
Sure germany fucked up during WW2 and now cucked themselves beyond repair but stop with that fucking "WE WUZ VICTIMS BUT WE BE BETTER THAN EVERYONE" mentality
I bet you watch TVP info
and I bet you voted PO
>where did EU gibs are coming from
from member states you cuck, from us as well
>you got 1/3 of germany
they had it coming, and we lost 1/2 of Poland to Russians, Ukies and Belarussians. Bad deal.
wykurwiaj piąta kolumno
No you fucking cunt. Muricans are constantly mislead by the ZOG (((military complex government)))
Okay first and for most I've personally never seethe US use the term polish death camps, but I'm saying I've never seen it so I could be wrong, of course the camps where in Poland so the term isn't objectively propaganda and evil and can be misconstrued. Second of all form what I here Poland is running fine, which is more then I can say about your European counterparts, obviously nationalism is being attacked, but there are sound reasons as to why it is being attacked by the radical left. Me personally I don't see anything wrong with nationalism. Finally Im saying your obviously blaming the jews for the propaganda abasing Poland, I'm simply saying proof.
seen not seethe
>implying what Ehrenburg says isn't true
Germans are inherently evil. That is the true redpill.
CIA boss used that term, it was on national news here
but CIA are all scumbags so I do not care much
I see, yeah the CIA are there own entity entirely compared to the US people and how they believe in general
>ve personally never seethe US use the term polish death camps
youtube.com
>of course the camps where in Poland
Yes but that's not the way you normally speak and it especially shouldn't be a way you speak about such sensitive case in hyper-PC world.
Colloseum war Roman. Nobody desribed it as italian just because it's in the Italy. What matters is who built it, not were it is.
Do you think the left, which is so obsessed about the languade doesn't realize the nuances behind the phrase such as "polish death camps".
>jews for the propaganda abasing Polan
Most anti-polish propaganda in our media is led by Jews such as Michnik, Żakowski or Smolar. There are a lot of NGOs funded by Soros to fight the thought crime and denounce polish nations such as Fundacja Stefana Batorego or Helsińska fundacja praw człowieka.
Poland lost about 12 mln people during WW2. 36mln-24mln.
They say 6 mln died and 6 was sent to Siberia or somewhere else. Don't know about exact numbers.
They say almost all of the 3mln jews died but i think that there wasn't even 3 mln jews in Poland before war and even if there was there is still a lot of jews in politics, media etc, and lots and lots of jews with Polish roots live now in US or Israel. I'd say that maybe about 200 000 jews died during war, rest run away, bought their freedom from nazis or changed their surnames.
We didn't have a country at the beginning of last century, and since we get one borders shifted only once you dummie.
Polish Diaspora in Chicago here,
My great grandma said the she preferred Nazi occupation to the Soviet one. She said Nazis were civilized while Russians were "wild people" like they just came out of the woods n lived there their whole lives.
Also the order Stalin gave that his troops returning home could do whatever the fuck they wanted is true. She said they were so dumb and uncivilized they broke a grandfather clock (big ones) couse they thought wrist watches would come out since u break big clock u get many small clocks
The funny thing about that is, that term is thrown around quite a lot with older Americans, the ones old enough to have witnessed the war.
Also she hid 3 Jews in her basement 2 would go out n convene with other Jews. One night they didn't come back. Guy who stayed went off to New York n sent my great granny his wife's wedding dress and a letter for saving his life etc.
I'm Polish-American. My grandparents fled to America after 7 of their family members were killed in death camps. I don't think they would have lied about it.
I have no idea about the "6 million" number, and probably nobody does, but honestly does it matter that much? It was murder on an unimaginable scale and the ultimate act of inhumanity. The only people nitpicking numbers are dipshits who think that it somehow is less evil if it was 600,000 people, or 2 million, or whatever.
>My grandparents fled to America after 7 of their family members were killed in death camps. I don't think they would have lied about it.
how did they do that? pray tell, because I am legit curious
I dont deny the thought crimes are real, and like I said I've never heard it until this very minute, and it would only make sense that they would understand I see your point.
KEK
I see, different opinion is always welcomed
Cool story to tell others
I find this very true to be quite honest
I honestly don't know. They died when I was 12 and I've never asked my parents for the juicy holocaust deets.
My grandfather was a psychologist who pioneered a lot of modern day theory and treatments for schizophrenia. He probably was fairly wealthy and had university contacts he could utilize.
>I bet you voted PO
no
>Gibs are coming from us as well
You're taking more than you're giving
>Bad deal
You were a minority in the parts of Poland you lost, instead you got parts of germany that were much more developed than the east and you kicked all the germans out so you're the majority there now. Although there was no reason for it to happen it was a good deal for Poland.
only retards believes in holocaust, in gas chambers at least. you can think they killed 6 billion in any way you want, but gas chamber, you need to be a complete retard.
do not get offended, but your story reek of judaistic opportunism
so you voted .N or Razem, no one cares, now fuck you and die with this bullshit that german clay is better than Polish clay
>b..but muh development!
and now we have Ruch Autonomii Slaska trying to steal it back, Gdańsk and pretty much all major cities ruled by german agents, and overall, fuckery is going left and right
>but germans owe us nothing, TVP info is fake news, we are not european enough
kindly remove yourself from my country, traitor
I noticed that in your previous post it was
>you got
instead of
>we got
you do not even think about yourself as Polish, why do you discuss Polish matters?
kek
stfu retard with ur pathetic low minded nationalism, you polish are so retarded for that, you always look like psychopatic childrens.
*a lot like the jews.
I barley noticed that was a different country TOP KEK
Fair enough user, I just don't go for fast out denial, as in nothing happened, the camps where made afterward type of story
what? camps were real, it was slave labor, but unlike the jewish soviet gulag it wasn't meant to kill the prisoners, read the "Garrison and Commandant Orders" book.
>do not get offended, but your story reek of judaistic opportunism
As opposed to any other type of opportunism?
Are you suggesting that you wouldn't try to save yourself or your family, and would just die?
I ask honestly. It would be easy for you to make a smug, insulting response, but we're wasting our time if this is just about insulting people.
I'm saying that they where, what I'm saying to you is fair enough I just don't go for the flat out denial like the camps where built after the war type of story. I should've corrected my wording in the previous post.
Much like this one guy above, I don't remember being taught the exact number of jews that died, and I only learned about the 6 million when I came here. My teacher just told us that many people were killed, not just jews but also polish. She also told us about the ukrainians and jews that were the capo in those camps and how they fucked over and robbed their own people.
intersting post user I'm checking it out
Big words from a frenchie right there.
KEK
meanwhile, mad arab with knife was arrested under Eiffel tower yesterday
no mate, I am suggesting that your grandparents ride on holocaust fun train and basically, were kikes who, granted, got out of Poland and that is good cause they saved their hides, but probably profiteed greatly from being muh holocaust survivors
because if they escaped, and you never even heard that story, it stinks
I see, so what I've been hearing from actual Polish people is that its not a real issue in there day to day lives and most don't remember or know exact details. Same as in America, the only people who constantly bring it up are falsifiers of history aka David Irving
>Implying that is a genuine Ilya Ehrenburg quote and not your typical denier hoax invented on the spot
> germans are to blame for that, they owe us 1 trillion USD in reparations for WW2, and they try to rebrand history so that Poles were at fault
>and they try to rebrand history so that Poles were at fault
>and they try to rebrand history so that Poles were at fault
polish education. no proofs, no sources to back up such ridiculous beliefs; just "muh anti-niemcy" propaganda
Out of all the countries in the world, name me ONE country that has accepted and deals with its past wrongdoings BETTER than germany. Protip: you can't.
also,
>germany owes reparations to poland
Are you telling me Germany has so far only paid reparations to Israel? LOL get real.
What flag is this kek, and what is that meme I've never seen it before
>its not a real issue in there day to day lives and most don't remember or know exact details
Yes, that's about right. Ultimately it doesn't matter if it was three, five or twenty millions, germans still invaded our country and killed a lot of people, even if you don't count the camps. On the other hand keep in mind that we learn a bit different view than what I imagine americans learn about the camps, judging by their comments here. Instead of being influenced by messianic jewish Hollywood movies, we read a lot of polish authors who experienced first hand the pathological reality of concetration camps and the quasi-society that was built in there.
This law is kind of a joke. Denying any guilt and blame the others but not them selfes. Poland is thanks to the PiS a shithole. (I'm a hans posting from Portugal)
Nvm a german flag not a portugese
>germany
>dealing with past wrongdoings
you what, pseudogerman? they just ignore their past, like "I won't look at it and it will go away"
as for german reparations to Israel, I am not familiar with those, and I see no legal basis because Germany did not invade Israel, but it invaded Poland
>no proofs
>who uses term "Polish death camps"
>who made "unsere mutter unsere vater"
only one who deals with history falsifying is those guys who are to blame, coincidentally, you and germany
>LOL get real
do you even know where we are?
as added insult to injury:
>AfD will lose terribly, Merkel reign of terror will continue
Nazi death camps were deadlier than the gulag. Anyway, both were part of totalitarian systems destined for collapse.
JAILBAIT pure coincidence?!
national-socialist slave camps killed 400 000 according to red cross, gulags more than 10 millions, without counting holodomor etc..
I see, yes Americans are very detached form world conflicts, making it easier to dispel certain ideas faster then when they arrived. Lack of empathy can be used, in my personal opinion.
You waived your claim to reparations in 1954 and again in 1975.
This is sophistry at best.
>im not a Holocaust denier
Why the fuck not? What evidence is there to suggest there was a plan to exterminate the jews. Those gas chambers are fake. They were built after the war. They admit that. The Zyklon B was for delousing. The germans didn't do anything worse to the jews than we did to the japanese.
Yes Stalin killed many of people but Hitler is the one who started a conflict that eventually killed tens of millions more maybe even a hundred million when all the smoke clears. If this is a left vs right thing, I must say both hands are not close to being clean.
we never waived it at all :^)
PRL was not Poland at all, now open your wallet Hans, because payback time has come
en.m.wikipedia.org
Regarding the gulags, Soviet documents don't suggest that number. Also, why bring up the Holodomor and not the civilians killed by Nazi Germany?
Chump chump chump chump CHUMP ! en.m.wikipedia.org
No it fucking wasn't a "guesstimate."
It was a very specifically chosen number that they had been pushing in their zionist propaganda for decades. There are newspaper articles going back to the late 1800s talking about european jews being killed and they specifically use the word "holocaust" and the number "6 million."
What part of financing both side of all wars since 1666 don't you understand Sabbatha Zevi ?!
Is that the rabbi that converted to Islam?
pic related, 1/2
I dont know enough to argue about whats fake and whats real, what I am hear to do is to ask people who actually live in Europe what they know and how this has impacted there lives, along with seeing views based on Polish people vs Americans and so on. Im not about to change my opinion on something because some wannabe authoritarian says some obscure fact with a flaky chart on Sup Forums plus I feel I've seen enough in the real world to know whats what
>What are you taught Poland?
My grandfather was in work camp in Germany. He said that during allied bombing raids Germans order all Jews outside while hiding in bunkers themselves.
So Jewish prisoners where partly killed by allies xD.
I wish I ask him more, because some of his stories (like having Jewish gf in camp) are opposing to mainstream narrative (maybe he was in light camp or sth)
>Was it 6 million? Was it less?
Don't know, maybe. There are not enough ppl researching this without bias.
2/2
there is Austrian holocaust denial debunker going on and attacking this stuff, but I do not care
...
>You waived your claim to reparations in 1954 and again in 1975.
No, the commies who were appointed and controlled by Moscow did. NOW PAY DENBTS GERM!
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Thats actually pretty funny user, and yeah I. feel. the same way about that as well, the bias is real when it comes to topics like this.
>(((rationalwiki)))
David Irving vs Penguin Books Ltd
He is Turkish Tengri proclaimed himself Jewish messiah then converted to Islam .. Is modern day follower are the Luciferian fiends in charge of you twinks ...oh and btw 6 is Hebrew number representing a crusifiction nail..