Capitalism

Can we just realize that Capitalism has caused WAY more pain and death than Communism has?

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Daily reminder that communism has always lost to capitalism.

Accidental death? Maybe, you'll have to argue that though. Deliberate, malicious death? Yeah, all the Jews, Turks and Goths that died in the holodomor or in Stalinist gulags or on Cambodian killing fields would disagree. Difference is Marxist ideologies are actually malicious and wants to cause pain, capitalism is just uncaring.

it also caused way more good
>the toll of being the best and most successful system

A new war is started every time a Republican takes office.

OP confirmed as a bernout college debt fag.

Hey faggot, if you want things in life you have to work for them.

certainly not
nothing has ever pulled people out of misery anywhere near as much as capitalism
and nothing has ever thrown people into misery anywhere near as much as communism

deal with it, you inhuman kleptomaniac and fascist piece of commie shit

Capitalism works everywhere it is tried.

FREE MARKET capitalism works everywhere it is tried, don't let the Marxists get you by using heavily regulated nations like Africa as examples of capitalism.

Capitalism is an umbrella term.
Communism is authoritarian control by the state / state control all means of production.

Its funny because communists complain about Trump, but under a communist society he would have absolute control. But I still don't understand why communism is so appealing to commie larps.

Nope. Because Capitalism also creates happiness in excess of the suffering it imposes. The invisible hand of the free market is just good like that.


Communism creates nothing. And only appears good temporarily to the envious faggots who delight in the momentary subjugation of their superiors.

It's a dead ideology with a century of failure under its belt. Move the fuck on already. No wonder the left is a fucking a joke now.

Go to the kitchen and find a fork. Pull out your scrotum, and shove the fork in your nutsack.
Repeat, until death envelops you.

The entire purpose of Capitalism is to climb up the ladder of business in order to oppress the people below you. We have enough resources to exist without this system, but the people in power want to keep the system the same so they can grow their wealth and power beyond the need of any one person. Communism (At least, the way many perceive it) aims to make life a positive thing for everyone, with everybody being on the same level and having the option to do what they want to do. Capitalism, on the other hand, keeps people down so that the wealthy can continue growing their wealth and influence. The only reason that Communist states haven't succeeded in the past is because they were taken over by an authoritarian regime (EX. Stalin, Mao, Castro.) The real problem with regimes of the past were the leadership, not the people who created the revolution.

You literally didn't respond to my only real point

Capitalism is shit, but merely uncaring.
Marxist ideologies are outright malicious.

Your sophistry shit isn't convincing, you haven't disproved that Marxism is actually a demonic evil.

>FREE MARKET capitalism works everywhere it is tried

Capitalist systems does work.
However, Free Market capitalism does not, at least in the long term.

Hence outsourcing, hence race to the bottom, globalization of labor, upcoming slave wages., less production because of declining sales globally, etc.

The Free Market offsets all economies by forcing down the price of labor, which eventually cause sales to decline because the working class are the ones keep the market afloat. This causes a spiral, and it is currently out of control.

Guess what the entire purpose of communism is

The only people who die from the existence of properties rights are trespassers and thieves. Good riddance.

Spoken like a true godless commie.

It's not an oppression Olympics. Some of us just want to produce, and be treated fairly for doing so.

>The entire purpose of Capitalism is to climb up the ladder

That's actually called class struggle and it is (or was) the core principle of Marxism.

Capitalism is far more popular and successful than communism.
So even if that assertion were true, which it's not, capitalism is per-capita FAR less painful and murderous than kikemunism.

That Botswana is really out of place.

+ for fuck captialism and all the fat fucks it creates

>bill's pic
jesus christ, what the fuck happened to him?

The entire purpose of Communism is the abolition of all private property, It's spelled out right there in all the literature.

The old school definition of private property includes your children, your body, and your life, btw.

>he only reason that Communist states haven't succeeded in the past is because they were taken over by an authoritarian regime

Communism is authoritarian control by the state. Doesn't matter who you place in power, it will always become a despot.

>Hence outsourcing
Outsourcing is similar to automation, it causes temporary unemployment but benefits the economy in the long run by allowing specialization of jobs and cheaper goods.

>with everybody being on the same level
Literally only control freaks and inferiors think this is a good thing.
Commies need to be exterminated.

It's a slider.

I think you mean wealth, prosperity, growth, and innovation

no it doesn't, it lowers the quality of the goods and allows the supplier to sell the goods on any market once a local market is run into the ground, because its global.

Yes and the internet is capitalisms undoing. You know, the place where free things are the best? And knowledge cant be monetized. All you internet-addicted neets are communists.

Please don't engage with anyone this stupid in the future. If he doesn't know command and control economics only ever leads to corruption after a full century of disaster, he'll never learn.

Buy Bitcoin, and hope for the best.

People, in the past, usually only innovated due to their own greed and to become powerful. Now, with all that we have, we can support all people living on the planet, but choose not to due to the brainwashing of the people in power and the Capitalist 1%.

It hasn't retard, in fact it's been scientifically studied

Holy shit you are a fucking retard. Memes are being commidified on the daily. Before your very eyes, and on this very site.

How fucking dumb are you? IQ 85, I'd guess.

>150 million deaths under communism since 1900
just kys commie scum

>with everybody being on the same level

Pic related

That picture immediately makes me think of

>You white knighting me, boy??!

youtube.com/watch?v=5XC2ImyZrxM

Peek MM

lol, Yeah

PEAK, dammit.

...

>knowledge cant be monetized
I guess that shitty university you're going to some day isn't making any money at all right?
keep flipping those burgers kid.

The only death capitalism cause was during the great depression, as far as my knowledge extends.

As for communism, there have been numerous atrocities committed, including the separation of families against their will, famine (which America had to help deal with) and Political prisoners (Granted on both sides, I have no knowledge of any American political prisoners during the cold war being tortured/killed, so correct me if I'm wrong).

The Russians even have an Anti-Gay movement.

Then again. I'm fresh out of high school, so you can correct me where I am Factually incorrect.

Dude, you can't explain real life to commies. They live in a fantasy world that was conceived by a cocksucking houseboy over a hundred years ago.

>way more pain and death
And also way more good where Communism did none.

Communism causes more suffering per capita you gigantic semantic spewing faggot.
Just because there have been less total people living under Communism that Capitalism that DOES NOT MEAN that Capitalism is more harmful than Communism which has reliably destroyed EVERYTHING it has touched since its inception.

False argument. Capitalism isn't about climbing a ladder to oppress people below you, it's about being rewarded for risking time and money. You can hire people to help you but you're not oppressing them by giving them a market wage for their help. This has to be bait sage

>more pain and death by raw numbers has occurred in the middle of capitalist systems by sheer economy of scale
>capitalism caused it all
>no other metric by which goodness can be valued
>no other metric by which badness can be valued
legit fascism is superior though

Source?

Maybe it's time to find something better than both...

Capitalism has caused many deaths. I agree that there have been MANY atrocities committed by authoritarian communists in the past, though. The main way that Capitalism falls short is in poor places, like Africa, where the greed of the upper classes causes them to exploit their natural resources, and keep their people starving and clueless. And there is nothing that the rest of the world will do, because their rich and wealthy people only accrue wealth for themselves. Even Bill Gates, a man famous for his charity, is still worth more money than any of us will ever see in our lives. I have to say, I respect you about 8x more than the rest of the people in this thread though. Good job, leaf.

On the internet, the better the content, the more likely it is to be available for free. Is this free market or communism?

Free markets existed in 12th century China. In modern USA, they don't exist. If they did, I could grow and sell weed out of my backyard. Is America capitalist? Was medieval China capitalist?


The current system we live under is more similar to an aristocracy: quality social services only for the very rich; everyone else is a peasant, soldier, or servant.

Knowledge cannot be monetized, because once you give it away, it's gone forever---the student who has learned no longer needs the teacher's service. Look at what youtube has done to subvert public education(which is not communist, btw). Any layman can learn almost anything for free online, as opposed to the hierarchical, expensive college orthodoxy that leads to aristocracy.

I'm always so curious about what these commie """revolutionaries""" think their future looks like in communism. same with socialists.

do you think you're going to be an artist? a freelance blogger? a writer? a poet? a professor?

no. you're going to be pulling a lever in a factory just like the rural and suburban retards you despise.

Capitalist love competition, recource management, time and money, etc. But all of these things they love are ancient concepts.

What really needs to change is industrialized capitalism--- this is what is killing the food supply, killing the environment, causing cancer, incentivizing warfare, and so on.

Competition is natural. Not a new concept.

Communism is just a word, like democracy. America calls itself one of the two, but it is neither---just an authoritarian regime (tho Trump is kicking some good ass). North Korea calls itself communist, but its just a much less effective authoritarian regime than USA.

The power structures that oppress us are the same shape they were before the French revolution.

dumbshit kid. capitalism is the only system that makes trade somewhat fair. people cannot be trusted to do things fairly on their own due to human nature. human nature is also why communism fails every single time - people can't be trusted to do what's right.

Blacks are card-carrying commies. Your argument is therefore invalid.

>Capitalism falls short is in poor places, like Africa, where the greed of the upper classes causes them to exploit their natural resources, and keep their people starving and clueless.
Ummm, no, it doesn't. They were starving and clueless before capitalism, and once the whites set up their capitalist infrastructure, they had more food and other resources then they ever had before, leading to population explosions. They also had access to the white's technology and education. Which lead to the problem: there was the inherent inequality of how things were shared. Sure they had more, but whites always had the lion's share of things. And if you count the effort put into building up to prosperity, they should deserve more it as they were the ones who brought the technology and invested in the infrastructure. But it's understandable that Africans would feel resentment. After all, it is their country and no one likes an foreign entity buying up and plundering your resources and giving you the equivalent of scraps. That sense of nationalism caused things like rebellions, leading to reactionary socialist/communist regimes and klepto dictatorships which fucked everything up and made them starve for real. Zimbabwe and South Africa are good case studies.

hillary sucks the life out of him

>Capitalism falls short is in poor places, like Africa, where the greed of the upper classes causes them to exploit their natural resources

Where are the free markets in these places? It seems to me that the places you're referring to are breeding grounds for government control and corruption along with state sponsored genocide.

Even if we accept that as true, it has also caused way more pleasure, survival, and overall positive things than Communism ever did, too.

In fact it just gives more of everything than Communism ever has.

Africa is a failed continent, but this is only an example of bad government, bad management, failure, etc.

Failure to industrialize, to capitalize, communizing.

"Capitalists" love to point fingers at failed states and call them communist, when really, it's just a failed state. Communism is just a word.

North Korea calls itself communist, even though communism is a global idea, and DPRK is really a slave state.

USA calls itself a democracy, when really it's an aristocracy.

People misuse words all the time.

And industrialists exploited Africa to the bone and continue to do so---this is wrong.

Make no mistake---a United States of Africa would be Goliath, one of the wealthiest places in all the world, population and natural resources.

My country used to be communist and is kinda capitalist now. I'd punch you in the face for making that statement seriously.

>Capitalists" love to point fingers at failed states and call them communist, when really, it's just a failed state
There are very few failed free market capitalist states.

In the villages. Free markets are natural things that have existed for millennia.

Free Markets =\= capitalism.

Industrialism is what you're thinking about maybe---- this is where Africa lagged.
And so did Russia, China, and others---but look how far these nations of PEASANTS have come in just 100 years under leaders calling themselves "communists." Peasants to nukes in 30 years for Russia; peasants to #1 or #2 world Economy for a China.

The US is a Republic, you halfwit neckbeard.

Basically you're a loser and you want my shit so you can take what you want and then throw the leftovers to Tyrone while leaving me a beggar.
Yeah, fuck you. Don't tread on me.

Free markets exist everywhere; its natural. In the USA, illegal drugs are a free market.

Your point is moot because a failed state is neither capitalist or communist--it's nothing.

You think so? And yet, to whom do I pay rent? The land LORD, that's right folks. Rich people don't go to jail, Clinton is a murderer walking free, the military is worshiped. USA is feudal.

>Your point is moot because a failed state is neither capitalist or communist--it's nothing.
Fine, very few states are free market capitalist when they fail.

>realize
Virtue signalling piece of shit

...

SAGE

Even these communist faggots think they're special and will get put "in charge" of all the other equal people. They don't even bat an eye when they say it. They don't think they will be the ones toiling in the fields or being one of the regular "workers".

>Can we just realize that Capitalism has caused WAY more benefit and improved-standards than gommunism has?

Libya?

Are you suggesting that free market capitalist states can't fail? What about 2008? What about USA in 1928? Germany after WW1?

Say what you want about Venezuela but she will recover.

>Say what you want about Venezuela but she will recover.
When they remove the Communist/Socialist establishment

>entire purpose of Capitalism is to climb up the ladder of business in order to oppress the people below you
I wouldn't say "oppress" is a necessary element of advancing in a hierarchy. Your definition of "oppress" seems to just mean "has more money", which is a pretty juvenile opion, IMO. Also, I think hierarchies are a natural and good thing, because they allow for more efficient allocation of labor and resources by people of high intelligence and wisdom. Giving power to the plebs all the time seems like it would lead to inefficiency and foolishness. As Hoppe said: "kindergarteners will vote to give themselves unlimited recess 100% of the time".

>not the people who created the revolution
You realize that Lenin and Mao literally started their ideology with a dictatorship in mind, right? That was Lenin's vanguard theory.

>North Korea calls itself communist, even though communism is a global idea, and DPRK is really a slave state.

A slave state is how communist states always end up. You can't get rid of human nature. People are different, have different goals, different drives, different levels of greed that you cannot remove. And to incorporate a communist government, you're going to have to have someone in charge to organize all the others. People just aren't going to come together and create a communal type of government. As for the citizens, the only way to get people to do what is best for the group as a whole, and not themselves is to force them to do what is needed. And once that boundary is overstepped, your pie in the sky vision of communism plows into the ground. You can't lift dolts and retards up, you have to force the optimists and hard workers down to get an "equal level."

well 100% of people die under every -ism, so I guess the ideology that killed the most is the one that's been around the longest for the most people

>Are you suggesting that free market capitalist states can't fail?
Unless they are invaded by a foreign power it would be incredibly rare for a free market capitalist nation to fall.

>What about 2008? What about USA in 1928?
Downturns in the economy which we recovered from.

>Germany after WW1?
A economic downturn aggravated by hyperinflation (which itself was caused by government intervention, both foreign and domestic).

>Say what you want about Venezuela but she will recover.
Eventually, yes, likely after a more capitalistic government is put in charge.

So many 666sss

The establishment in USA called itself liberal, and yet, it is probably fascist. Words words words.

Just bc Venezuela called themselves socialist does not make an effective government. The people in charge failed--replace them with competent people, call it whatever you want, call it dickocracy, and it will do better.

Also, socialism =\= communism. Communism is world gov.

wow nice strawman

Has it? I'm pretty comfy typing on a laptop, from my bed, talking to random anons about international politics...from a fucking third world country.

>Communism is world gov.
keep kicking the ball further so you never have to look at your failures

>Communism is world gov

How are you gonna cope with the fact that the majority of the working-class are nationalist and ethnocentric though?

If anything, the capitalist elites (many of them pro-left media people and actors, etc.) are the most globalist, because they spend a lot of time trading and doing business with foreigners, and sampling all the world's delicacies and treasures like unhinged hedonists.

To be fair, you might not be a 3rd world country if your nation had followed free market capitalism's example.

I think communism works with a libertarian mindset at a grassroots level, and then only with free markets and a world government to maintain world peace. Pie in the sky, yeah, but eventually humanity needs world peace.

Government intervention, I see you are using as a synonym for communism. But Germany was not in any way communist when it failed---yes it eventually recovered too. But USA in 1933 was an industrial capitalist failed state.

Free states invaded by foreign powers is a feature of the modern industrial capitalist nuclear autocracy run by USA and banks. That must change eventually or it will fail like it is in 1928 or worse.

>I think communism works with a libertarian mindset at a grassroots level

How are you going to enforce egalitarianism across vast, even global, landmasses, and across huge populations without an authoritarian state forcing them to?

Who decides how much wealth is "necessary" for the baseline prole on a global scale?

How will you import and distribute geographically-specific resources, such as the rare earth element mines in China?

Unhinged hedonism is a feature of monarchy, aristocracy, empire, etc etc---America in a nutshell. Today's globalists are real bastards.

It's ok if the working class is nationalist-- they can stay that way in their communities. I think they deserve more economic liberty, fair treatment, healthcare, and be allowed to thrive. Right now, so many places are exploited and it is simply waste.

I guess we would be better than the socialist shithole we are now. But we have no natural resources other than farming land and cattle.

>Government intervention, I see you are using as a synonym for communism
No. The reason I insist on using the term "free market capitalism" instead of just "capitalism" is because I'm drawing a distinction between the lightly regulated capitalist economies (like Switzerland, Chile, and Botswana) and the heavily regulated capitalist economies (like Venezuela and Ethiopia).

Actually I believe in libertarianism, not egalitarianism-- they confound each other.

No one "decides" what is necessary--- it is simply a practical matter that everyone needs to eat healthy, receive healthcare, have access to education and justice in a safe world.

Importing and exporting will happen naturally, based on who needs what.

I think free markets are natural and happen no matter what the ideology.

I thought commies were basically all socially-leftist, in that you hated the concept of nationalism and ethnocentrism, and even wanted to outright destroy it. The Soviet Union did this very often to its member states, such as Estonia, Poland, and Hungary.

What would you say to people that want to form their own NatSoc community and still have a degree of hierarchy and capital within your "communist patchwork" of autonomous regions?

See pic related, an American NatSoc (Traditionalist Worker Party) argues with an Antifa leftcom about the differences in their ideology:

youtube.com/watch?v=w7f9EGOlrMs

This OP

>But we have no natural resources other than farming land and cattle.
Neither do Hong Kong, Singapore, or Switzerland. Heck, Chile only really has copper. Yet free market capitalism is so awesome that it seems to create wealth and prosperity out of nowhere, like fucking magic (in reality it's because you can import raw materials and export finished goods and have a very successful economy that way)

Communism is the true real of the masses.

Ok. Well, my point about Germany in the 20s still stands. Failed state that was free market.

Venezuela and Ethiopia are failed states because they have shit leaders, and/or they don't fit in with the current global system. I don't think it's a coincidence Venezuela has oil. Would it surprise anyone if USA barged in? We do that to keep the industry rolling, so every fat fucking nomad in this country can sit on ass 4 hours a day eating burgers.

Lightly regulated seems to be the way to go. I wish USA was lightly regulated.

Yeah, but we have too many Uruguayans for fuck sake. We don't code, we don't do finance. We just kick football players on the shins and drink mate.

Yup

OP your b8 is gr8 m8 8/8

Hundreds of Millions died to Communist and Leftist bullshit. Do not kid yourself. Mao Ze Dong killed 38-67 million people under his system, Stalin killed around 20 million.