I've been reading about him and the confederate monuments that represent him, and I can't find any reason why we should keep them. Aside from losing the civil war, he and his beliefs represent almost nothing Americans stand for. What exactly is so culturally significant about him? He isn't part of white culture...
I want them removed.
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C U R R E N T Y E A R
I don't give a shit what you want.
>and I can't find any reason
It doesn't matter what you think, what you want, or what you find. Roosevelt honored him, and he was considered a hero by both sides in the decades following the war. He fought for the written constitution and the north fought for the unwritten one. The north won out, so imbeciles like you pretend your brainlet opinions are worth giving.
He's part and parcel to a disingenuous strategy of empowering the South after they, and their ideologies, were soundly defeated. By creating Southern icons like Lee and Jackson, certain actors hoped to use this unfounded pride to recclaim the privileges they had in the antebellum South. IT helped encourage and foster shit like Jim Crow laws, the KKK, segregation, and civil rights abuses. The main peaks of this strategy were put in place during the early 1900s and later again during the 1960s.
Ironically, even Robert E Lee and his descendants were against memorializing confederates for this exact reason.
cnn.com
The divides that exist in our country today, are largely because of this misplaced Southern pride in a hateful institution.
funny part is Lee himself didnt want any confederate monuments
Why care about today if you forget about yesterday?
>he and his beliefs represent almost nothing Americans stand for.
Explain or elaborate further on this, genuinely curious to hear your thoughts or anyones really
.
And I want Yanks removed. Guess neither of us are gonna get what we want huh?
He represents standing with your state before the federal government. Once that idea truly dies we will be no better than Europe.
You say that, and yet...
I don't live in a state with any so I have no opinion.
>Be Virginian
>Be told again and again and again and again that I can't celebrate the men who bled and died to protect my state, that by revering great men of my state I'm taking part in historical revisonism
>He's part and parcel to a disingenuous strategy of empowering the South after they, and their ideologies, were soundly defeated. By creating Southern icons like Lee and Jackson
This post is what's disingenuous. First of all, Jackson was icon before he was even elected to the white house. Second, Lee sought to avert further military problems between the two regions in the decades following the war. His words have nothing to do with the present situation.
also nice job needing recent new sources to tell you about this brainlet mcfaggotpants
If user wanted to pull one of these over what would it take? A big one... cant use a truck
Because it's too soon to just start killing white folks. Attacking the statues is part of an incremental elimination.
>What exactly is so culturally significant
600000+ people died in the civil war over niggers, show some respect
Where are the KAs? In your one potentially defiant moment in American history, you're not there. Nut up and defend your founder. Noble L. DeVotie's brothers are with you.
protect your state from owning slaves? Your general didn't even want monuments to the confederacy
>As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated; my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; & of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour. All I think that can now be done, is to aid our noble & generous women in their efforts to protect the graves & mark the last resting places of those who have fallen, & wait for better times.
leefamilyarchive.org
Robert E Lee didnu nuffin, he wuz a good boi
The removal of statues doesn't make you any less hated or make it more likely the south will stop rejecting Leftist politicians.
That's because you're not a Southerner.
---
He was a man, and as a man he knew
Love, separation, sorrow, joy and death.
He was a master of the tricks of war,
He gave great strokes and warded strokes as great.
He was the prop and pillar of a State,
The incarnation of a national dream,
And when the State fell and the dream dissolved
He must have lived with bitterness itself-
But what his sorrow was and what his joy,
And how he felt in the expense of strength,
And how his heart contained its bitterness,
He will not tell us.
You can. You can celebrate kekkles and the 7th Moon God of ALAN, for all anyone cares. But you don't have the right or privilege to put the statues of traitors to the our great nation on Federal and state ground.
Museums and textbooks can easily suffice for history's losers.
i just think they're neat
He was jewish
>the attempt in the present condition of the Country,
lol, how did you pass the captcha?
Because the (((media))) told them to. They are absolute minions.
Literally the only reason Lee sided with the CSA was because he was protecting HIS HOME.
>A DEUS VULT poster is lost on the irony of destroying history
I fucking hate summer.
Is that true? Source please, that's actually really interesting.
> Jackson was icon before he was even elected to the white house.
Uh, he was never president. What the hell?
>Lee sought to avert further military problems
You can infer what you want. He specifically states Confederate memorials would prevent the nation from healing it's divisions. Moving on from that, do you think that our nation is feeling pretty health after that last rally about a Confederate memorial statue?
Keep trying.
BUT MUH HERRTAGE
Man, you fuckers lost and here you are now? Weve been hearing about the south rising up for years and you cant even defend statues coming down
You do know Lee was originally asked to lead the Union army, right? He turned down the job because he didn't want to send an army into his home state.
they are fucking monuments to not only all the southern soldiers who died defending their sovereignty against northern federalism but standing as a constant reminder of the rebel spirit at heart within southern united states culture routed in states rights and the opposition to overreaching federalism
I wouldn't expect yanks to understand anything about history and culture
>put the statues of traitors to the our great nation
What are you talking about? The author of the constitution wrote pamphlets approving secession under circumstances far less extreme than the civil war.
You're a brainlet whose family probably wasn't even here, let's be honest.
Fuck the union and fuck you. You don't have the right to murder hundreds of thousands to force people into a "free republic" without the consent of the governed and demand unconditional love. The confederacy and the struggles of the south are part of the American story. Wise men once understood that. The last thing you can accuse today's libshits of being is wise.
Do yourself a favor and get educated about Communist movements. Statues, books, anything history is removed so people lose their identity. But the Communists don't stop there. People are murdered by the millions to continue erasing the past. And THIS ISN'T ABOUT SLAVERY, it's about targeting the Constitution because it interferes with the progressive/Communist goals in America.
>I’m black. Robert E. Lee is my ancestor. His statues can’t come down soon enough
>One post by this id
sage
In 400 years the USA will be long gone, and I'll bet your ass people will still celebrate Robert E. fucking Lee like Yorkshiremen do Richard III. No one """""loses""""" history.
>"Dismiss from your mind all sectional feeling, and bring [your children] up to be Americans." Robert E Lee
>Uh, he was never president. What the hell?
I thought you meant Andrew. It would have been in keeping with the general idiotic tone of your post.
>You can infer what you want.
He expressly stated it,
>ll I think that can now be done, is to aid our noble & generous women in their efforts to protect the graves & mark the last resting places of those who have fallen, & wait for better times.
> do you think that our nation is feeling pretty health after that last rally about a Confederate memorial statue?
I don't think it was in good shape leading up to it, judging from posts like yours.
southerners want to be special snowflakes
Cool, so you should have no problem with the rest of the cities taking down more statues.
That doesn't conflict with anything. Take your time on the next post, I know the captcha gives you trouble.
What's stopping the Left from demanding the removal of statues of the Founding Fathers?
You have to be an idiot to think that the same people that think the Founding Fathers were just racist injun-hating slaveowners would stop at Confederate statues
and you are aware that he surrendered and encouraged unification post war right?
man had the good sense to change his mind after watching his country torn apart too bad so many of you didn't listen to him
you have to go back
>Why do people care about Robert E Lee statues?
They really don't. This is all a game designed to destroy our nation.
First Robert E Lee, tomorrow George Washington
The right to secede is fundamental to self-determinism and basic republican/democratic principles, and was strongly supported by people including Thomas Jefferson, who without a doubt would have supported the confederacy. Also sage, shill faggot
Forget those White, slave-owning, colonizing "fathers." I want this memorial to a bunch of losers the perpetrated an ILLEGAL WAR against the National Liberation Front removed.
Then so does pic related, who commemorated lee. I wonder who wouldn't be a stormfag, according to your "standards."
Robert E. Lee said:
"I think it wiser not to keep open the sores of war but to follow the examples of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, to commit to oblivion the feelings engendered."
"As regards the erection of such a monument as is contemplated, my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; [and] of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour. All I think that can now be done is … to protect the graves [and] mark the last resting places of those who have fallen."
Walt Disney was a racist. We need to remove his name from the world.
I alway have a problem with the erasure of history like fucking isis. Luckily in this case we all lose.
Most of the statues removed so far have been the ones commerating women.
Go fuck yourself tranny.
Sheathe your Fucking aids needles and fight like a chad and Maybe they will.
If you let this happen in ten years, they will be tearing down the Washington Monument.
Don't give me that "muh confederacy, muh traitors, muh lost the war" shit, Al Sharpton came out TODAY saying we should defund the Jefferson Memorial. Not only is this a slippery slope, it's a fucking steep one.
underrated
>the attempt in the present condition of the Country
How is this relevant at all?
And why are you all using the same argument at the same time lol
This is some suspect shill shit
>he and his beliefs represent almost nothing Americans stand for.
EXACTLY, SO WE SHOULD IGNORE HIS UNAMERICAN BELIEF THAT WE SHOULDN'T BUILD STATUES OF HIM AND KEEP THE STATUES OF HIM
CHECKMATE LIBTARDS
4 people taking the statue down 25 people taking pictures of it. Whats causing the division in America?
Stonewall you dingus
Where are they renting this crane from?
Dox the company that supplied it
Exactly, though it's funny watching the Left go into logical contortions over this
>"The difference is that Lee was a traitor, Washington wasn't!"
>"And why was Lee a traitor?"
>"BECAUSE CONFEDERATES WANTED TO OWN SLAVES"
>"And Washington didn't own slaves"
>"FUCK YOU IT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, TRUST US WE JUST WANT STATUES OF CONFEDERATE GENERALS REMOVED"
The only ones that should be left alone are the the tombstones. Ill buy your slippery slope when i start seeing that happen
He helped us conquer Mexico
10 years? They are already advocating for the removal of washington, adams, and jefferson and it hasn't even been a week.
I don't think they will try to tear it down, just rename it to MLK monument and paint it black.
I give it 2 months tops
You thought Andrew Jackson fought in the Civil War and I'm the idiot? Heh.
It's weird how you chose that second sentence and not the one prior to reference:
>would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; & of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour.
Yeah, I agree. Our country is pretty fucked if Sup Forums is a litmus. Thanks.
Honestly compared to Grant and Sherman Lee was a good man, you can see it in his eyes. Unlike Alcoholic Grant and bloodthirsty Sherman. Sherman btw went on after the war to serve the Jews, he became a merc gen and sailed a fleet into Korea, at the same time a German Jew infiltrated Korea to steal to dead body of a Korean Emperor, only to find the tomb had been sealed, and the Koreans outsmarted the Jews.
>1 post by this user
Jesus, all you people replying to this, please learn how to spot shills.
I think they actually would be content to see Washington's statues removed. They just know the public isn't quite so complacent yet.
>and you are aware that he surrendered and encouraged unification post war right?
Yes. In the quiet town of Lexington, VA where I went to school and there are multiple monuments built to him and Jackson because unlike Davis he knew when the time to fight was over. You stupid fuck.
>man had the good sense to change his mind after watching his country torn apart too bad so many of you didn't listen to him
Now we have a federal government that is overbearing that constantly shits on constitutional rights. Yeah, hooray for Lincoln. He also said he would have won Gettysburg if Jackson had lived after Chancellorsville. Or will you be selective about your understanding of history?
that's posts in this thread, faggot. learn to Sup Forums
>You thought Andrew Jackson fought in the Civil War and I'm the idiot? Heh
Nothing in my post implies that.
>It's weird how you chose that second sentence and not the one prior to reference:
Because that one changes the fragment you posted and completely demolishes your argument. What you posted applies only to the present circumstances, but it would be nice to have monuments, is what he said.
I can't believe this is a real conversation, here's the whole thing:
> my conviction is, that however grateful it would be to the feelings of the South, the attempt in the present condition of the Country, would have the effect of retarding, instead of accelerating its accomplishment; & of continuing, if not adding to, the difficulties under which the Southern people labour
>All I think that can now be done, is to aid our noble & generous women in their efforts to protect the graves & mark the last resting places of those who have fallen, & wait for better times
And he got his better times under such presidents as TR.
It's history - and when you demolish history, good or bad, you lose something of intrinsic value.
More distressing, it sets a dangerous precedent: If we decide to demolish Confederate war monuments because it offends some people, how long will it be before we tear down Union monuments because they offend someone else? Or Revolutionary War monuments? Or other historical sites? How long will it be before we start removing documents from archives? Paintings from galleries? Artifacts from museums? Where does it stop?
It's easy to say "oh we'll just do it this one time", but by allowing it to happen, even once, even if you believe your intentions to be noble, it makes the desecration and revision of our history acceptable.
Ignoring the legal precedent that proves you're flatly wrong about the Confederacy's "secession", I would like you to point out where the U.S. Constitution explicitly states the right to secede. I'll wait.
You barked first doggie.
LEARN YOUR PLACE.
cavalierdaily.com
The Bigot Jefferson's days are numbered.
>he thinks reading wikipedia articles on Lee gives him sufficient insight
Why are liberals so stupid?
>Richmond told CBS 3 that digging up Forrest, who died 138 years ago, would fix the city’s alleged problems with racism.
>“If he’s gone, some of this racism and race-hate might be gone,” Richmond said, shovel in hand. “We got a fresh shovel full, and we hope that everybody else will follow suit and dig him up.”
He fought for his country. I hear and read people referring to all confederates as traitors. Either these people have such a simplistic view on history as to make it wrong, they are revisionists, or they are simply using exaggerated terms to try to cow a perceived opponent. There is an argument to be made for secessionists being traitors only after the civil war, which determined, once and for all, that secession is no longer a right.
You wanting them removed is an emotional reaction to a heavily filtered view of history, one which refuses to take into account the views of others, and you wanting them removed due to this does not make it the right thing to do.
>reading comprehension
I said history's LOSERS (i.e. Hitler, Custer, Romney, etc.), not LOSING history (Siege of Baghdad).
Remember when the Bigot Jefferson ignored the Constitution in making the Louisiana Purchase, and the Federalists rightly threatened secession? This illegal action has still not been reversed to this day!
Christian
Capitalist
Pro Individualism
Hated Slavery never even had slaves.
Hes more American than Grant or Sherman who owned slaves.
It'll be a straight fall down a sheer cliff by then.
>removing statues == burning textbooks
wew, guess they should've left those Stalin statues up?
Google "slippery slope" and "logical fallacies", cuck.
>Or will you be selective about your understanding of history?
You cant toss out a hypothetical and question my understanding of history.
I get it youre ancestor died in the war and your still pissed about it. You're upset that everyone thinks your a monster because you have a twang in your voice. Why not try an heal instead of falling on the same sword great great great grandpa did?
A person like you should have a deep understanding of how historical wrongs can affect modern day life. Use that hurt to build a bridge to others who feel that same pain
Babe, he surrendered. He had a brain between his ears, unlike the original Sup Forumstards. Robert E. Lee GAVE IT UP and stated that the country should move forward as a united nation, not to glorify the losers of a war. Nothing Teddy Roosevelt did gave him his "better times" because that bitch was already dead and gone.
Please show me a reference where the prolific Robert E. Lee ever wrote anything about how, in the future once the smoke has cleared, the south will rise again in glory. You can't find one. Back then men had dignity and could admit their defeats gracefully, unlike the pampered internet brats of today.
What school has removed references to Robert E Lee?
>I think they actually would be content to see Washington's statues removed
Of course they would, because to most of them the United States is an inherently white supremacist nation created by a bunch of crazy religious nutjobs and founded by racist native-exterminating slave-owning oligarchs - as much as they're trying to dress themselves in the flag and attempt to claim that white Southerners stormed the beaches of Normandy in WW2 to protect antifaggots tearing down Confederate statues
Some of those statues have inscriptions that basically say the South did NOTHING WRONG and future will prove them right, basically defending southern racism and slavery. And you fuckers wonder why people have an issue with them.
I oppose the destruction of any longstanding monument. They are parts of our history and should be preserved and remembered. Also worth pointing out that those crying for their removal are also the same scum who will say things like "Whites/USA have no culture", when they are advocating for its removal and destruction. They say that people can still learn history from books, but then they also want to alter those to fit their own view as well so the "history" you get will have a huge slant and bias. I'd wager that most people don't even know there were four states, that had slaves, that stayed loyal to the Union during the Civil War.
The removal and censorship of all positive/neutral mentions of the CSA is also the Democratic Party trying to brush away its own past.
While a statue won't give you tons of information, it's a reminder that the events you hear about involved humans. Not every Confederate was a slave owner or hated the idea of Blacks being free, they believed they were fighting a Second American Revolution against a government that wasn't representing their interests.
The real spark for Southern Secession was newspapers saying that Lincoln was an Abolitionist (When he was not) and that frightened Southerners into thinking the next President was about the crash the South's economy. The Secession of the Southern States was started by people essentially screaming "Not MY President!" in regards to Lincoln. But none of those Leftists will ever realize that, nor the irony that their cries about Trump and wishes to break away from a US ruled by him are nearly the exact feelings of the Confederates.
And while some may claim it's a slippery slope fallacy, removal statues and monuments to the CSA will lead to calls for removal of any statue or monument dedicated to someone that's not approved by modern standards.
God forbid monuments state facts.
OP, are you seriously going to go through the entire history of man kind and relitigate the merits of every person who has a physical representation of them.
it's sad that the rich convinced your poor relatives to fight for their cause. Also sad that this mentality has persisted