>Shirley also called on tech companies, such asGoogleand Facebook, to introduce anonymous recruitment to help address the lack of female programmers.
>Programmers, she argued, should be assessed on skill, just as secretaries were once given typing tests. “You don’t send a photo, you don’t give a name, you just look at the achievements of the person as a selection process,” she said.
Wants more female programmers but asks for a litmus test to introduced into the hiring process? Fucking women I swear.
If programmer were assessed solely on skill, it would be only white and asian men programming.
Poos and women just are not good
Isaac Stewart
Seriously, nobody wants to apply for a job by taking a fucking test. Nobody wants to hire that way either. I've had a few job listings direct me to an online test, and I just left the site and didn't return. I can go in and talk about programming with some guys, and they can get a feel for how well I know my industry. But if they sit me down in front of a computer and ask me to solve various problems, I'll just say that I'm comfortable with my skills and I'm not interested in a job that's only interested in that one thing. There are plenty of other places to apply.
I've whiteboarded problems before, and that's cool. But I'm not going to do some anonymous programming challenge.
Nolan Walker
I believe there is a place they tried the anonymous recruitment thing thinking it would balance things out. It fucking didnt. The males just dominated everything left and right, and more precisely white males.
The reason she, like all of them, cannot decide what they want is because they want to make things seem fair without actually being fair. It is difficult to lie in every aspect of life, hard work. And naturally, since it is hard work, and its not white males that are doing it of course even the lying part is being done badly. They want to pretend like both sides have equal opportunities and should compete, but then if a man earns more hes sexist. Leftists are just torn inside themselves and at this point displaying hypocrisy within their ideas is becoming redundant. Even without reading a text written by a leftist, judging only on its length you can predict how many cognitive dissonant ideas it displays.
Colton Johnson
> Everything for equality
These people need to be purged quickly
Robert Cox
Sounds to me like you're some arrogant cuck.
Matthew Young
This has already been tried and proven to be like you said (well, just in regards to gender)
Elijah Richardson
I'm really not. On a scale of 1-10, I'd rate myself a 7. I work with many people who are much better than me, but I apply myself and solve problems pretty well. Plus, I just know how everything works from a big picture, so dissecting a few lines of code looking for the most efficient or 'programmerly' way to do it won't tell you how good a person really is. It'll tell you how well they studied obscure syntax maybe.
That's probably why I don't like this idea. It wouldn't give a prospective employer a true picture of my abilities.
Jonathan Hernandez
It's looking like the market is headed that way bro.
Luke Hall
I see the hypocrisy friend, it isn't lost at all. It just kills me that companies aren't fighting back after seeing articles like this.
If I ran an IT company, and started taking heat publicly for not having any women employed that was comparable to the men I employed for the same job, I'd grab a mic, point to flip flopping qoutes in articles like this and ask "WHAT in the fuck do you people want? PICK ONE." At least people would notice and see this shit for what it is (by people I mean the ones who are still blind to all this bullshit instead of being willfully ignorant, if there are any left).
It kills me how women can have a majortity woman owned and operated company and advertise it, but somehow the moment men do the sane, the DoL gets called in.
Jose Watson
I see you're point and agree there, but I'm also a stickler for litmus tests because it's one of the last ways a company can legally hire who they want, and the DoL and affirmative action groups can be told to fuck off without repercussion.
Camden Hill
Yup.
My friend is trying to get his geek stepdaughter to learn to code because he doesn't want her wasting so much time on the phone and on video games. She's now in the 8th grade, yet:
>doesn't know how to use MS Word >doesn't know how to use MS Excel >doesn't know how to pull and share media except on FB >doesn't want to learn to code. >has had two years of computer classes >yet somehow smart enough to tell people she wants to be a dentist when she grows up, SOLELY to "get people off my back".
Literally plays Minecraft all fucking day, but doesn't build anything herself. She just watches tutorials on Youtube and constructs in non survival mode.
Mason Rodriguez
What point is the picture trying to make? StackOverflow is a great tool for programmers.
Jacob Hernandez
yeah you're an arrogant cunt.
Adrian Green
Is it? Because everytime I've used it I've never had a clear cut answer, and some of the questions posted that were exactly what I was seeking the answer to were not clean cut. I'll admit, I've only be coding DAILY for four months. I could be wrong.
Brody Morales
>Programmers, she argued, should be assessed on skill, just as secretaries were once given typing tests. “You don’t send a photo, you don’t give a name, you just look at the achievements of the person as a selection process,” she said. sure
>The problem lies in the fact that the panelist were chosen with a 'blind review process' ( web.archive.org/web/20170604124312/https://cfp.githubapp.com/events/electronconf-2017 ), so there was no possibility of sexism or bias involved, and they still decided that meritocracy is not acceptable and that they are redoing the talks list (I guess that this time they will not do a blind review process)
>fucking reddit spacing
Evan Perry
even if they did that, it'd still be all men
only because that field is like 95% men.
Wyatt Barnes
Are you dense? She's asking for anonymous hiring, which would be meritocratic, not affirmative action. It would also ironically decrease significantly the number of women in technology jobs.
Tyler White
Enjoy never working at a big tech company then. They all do intensive coding tests.
Tyler Rogers
>She's now in the 8th grade, yet: Nigger she's in 8th grade.
Colton Brooks
Wasn't there some tech conference that was postponed because the speakers who were blind picked (to prevent bias) weren't diverse enough?
Charles Hall
anyone else here go for an IT related degree but have 0 interest in programming? I graduated in april with an information systems degree and would rather punch myself in the dick all day than be a code monkey. Looking like my options now are either do something with data/sql, QA tester or get a systems/business analyst job or just completely throw in the towel for IT and look into technical sales. Every fucking job I apply for asks for 2-5 years experience for entry level shit, how did you anons land work fresh out of school? I've applied to countless places and have done several interviews but because I have little experience get BTFO by kids who have done 7 internship rotations. All I want is to work my way to management and hire nothing but red pilled white males and to be a positive member of my community.
Caleb Rivera
they already do this in NZ, before employers even read your cover letter they often will have you take a 1 hour maths and stats test, english test and coding ability test for many software development positions
ofc this is for the jobs no woman would ever have a chance in hell qualifying for, one fuck up and you can lose a company millions.
Logan Turner
I was interviewed by amazon once, it took 4 hours. They gave me different problems and asked me how I would solve them Algorithm only, not language specific.
Hudson Harris
Yeah, see They did a blind selection of papers to select who would give talks and all of them ended up being male.
Jordan Nguyen
Thought about programming in the end scene of The Founder. >Nothing can take the place of persistence. That's what programming is all about. youtube.com/watch?v=ocXP1pLeqLM&t=30s
Connor Taylor
by the way, when females start fucking with the tech industry, it's basically going to be gamergate 2.0 in terms of back lash
don't fuck with our video games, don't fuck with our job market.
Nolan Smith
I actually prefer poos over women as colleagues
Sebastian Thompson
You're a stupid kid who's never had a job in his life. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.The standard for any job is >send in application/resume >those who make the first cut get an interview in the case of a code monkey like you, the test is part of your application >
Camden Powell
That COULD be a possibility, because if I'm using Stack Overflow, you can bet I'm already tired and frustrated after sitting in the chair for over five hours. I just remember asking "why can't I copy and paste large blocks of code in IDLE, and why isn't the code running after completed in the shell", and all I got was that IDLE can only handle one line of code at a time, so you have to copy and paste one line of code at a time. What I REALLY needed was the answer I got in my Python book about writing it all in a module, then running that module in the shell.
I need to find a Python tutor. Not because I'm utterly clueless; I can read the code and understand what's going on the majority of the time. I just need a physical body sitting copilot with me to answer questions regarding somethings appended to parts of code I'm not familiar with. Otherwise, studying modules like PyScript and PyGame will take weeks each to understand without actually making things myself from scratch. Any ideas?
James Martin
Fun fact but she and feminist want a score system. They call it achievement system but it adds points depending on skin colour and gender. Then they have to hire the person with the highest score.
Example Black 10 points Woman 5 points White man -10 points
This is not a joke.
Ethan Wilson
>too smart for you
Yeah dude, I didn't say I was a pro at coding or even marketable yet. I'm still in the process of studying for the A+ cert. All I said was that I wanted clear cut answers to my entry level questions with IDLE two months ago and found none.
I finished the Python course on Codecademy (we all have to start somewhere, and I've met people who have done the same but still no where near me), and besides stuff on the web, my best resource at the moment is the book in the pic.
Christopher Walker
That's why I like whiteboarding. Getting up and writing out some logic can give an employer a good idea of your abilities without making it just about your abilities.
I've done interviews at my company, and I've given the thumbs down to MIT and Harvard CS grads. Not because they weren't exceptional - they were - but because their skill set was better suited for robotics or OS design or whatever. They were way out of our league, and I knew the work we do would bore the shit out of them.
That, and their personalities sucked. But mostly because they were better off at some high tech juggernaut. One of them had cashed out at Facebook and just wasn't ready to retire, so he wanted an easy peasy job that wouldn't matter much to him. You don't want some overskilled, arrogant guy shitting up your dev team's morale. It's hard to account for those things if you're just hiring people based off of some goofy test. Plus, unless your test is going to cover all kinds of non-programming stuff, you may wind up with some ditzy chick who took a crash course programming 'bootcamp', and who can technically do the syntax, but can't actually do anything else.
For instance, imagine hiring some chick because she did a clever solution to one of your puzzles, and then you hire her and she doesn't know SQL at all. Or she doesn't know what a primary key is - or a join. Her code seemed fine, but she didn't know how to set up a load balancer - or even what a load balancer does. Or she doesn't know how to use a linux command line, or SSH, or how to even start/stop a service.
The best way to tell if someone's bullshitting, or overselling their abilities based off of a few lines of code, is to talk to them about the work they've done. Ask them what it took to get the project up and running, why they chose Unreal instead of Unity, etc, etc. But I'm sure other ways work too. This is just my style, I guess.
Ian Bell
Yep. Nothing like forced equality. You'd think people would learn after how that method works when looking at current racial tensions, especially in the Southern US.
Nicholas Allen
>to introduce anonymous recruitment to help address the lack of female programmers.
Oh yeah, no ulterior motives there user!
Christopher Rodriguez
Lad, the A+ is a joke. Not saying it isn't worth having because it is somewhere to start if you want to do something like support, but spare yourself the time and use one of those test suites with most of the questions from the exam verbatim and then shoot for something higher.
Kevin Baker
They don't realize what will happen since they've always been told women aren't there due to sexism, not sucking. It's always funny when procedures like this are introduced and they see the real world results. Of course the policies are quickly cancelled and pushed under the rug.
Bentley Walker
Not an excuse. I was using Excel and Word when I was in the sixth grade. I'm 28 now. Even the girl's mother says that she's had to type reports before on MS Word in grades 6 and 7, but for whatever reason she and some of her friends don't know how to use it. I guess I had hardcore parents or better teachers.
Xavier Martin
Didn't some company try blind applications and found out that women actually do WORSE in blind applications?
They've tried stuff like this -- 'blind' interviews, where gender, looks, age, etc. aren't known..
It literally made the imbalance worse.
James Robinson
>how did you anons land work fresh out of school? I'm legitimately sorry to give this answer, because it makes me one of those people, but I got my career started (web dev; been doing govt contracting for 5 years) through networking -- specifically a couple of slightly older friends I met during college.
Blake Watson
Don't give up on that dream user. The same woman I mention in this thread told me to take a part time job at an IT help desk for six months, bang out my A+, Network + and Security + certs and then bail onto something bigger. Her father and brother did the same thing and now both make over 100k as network engineers. One of them even rents space to clients to run traffic through the servers in his garrage.
Which all sounds good to me because I've grown frustrated with my ChemE degree and need some time off to pursue something else that doesn't require a degree and makes good money.
Jordan Anderson
Networking and internships were the key. Also on QA, I'd avoid it if you don't like programming. In my experience the QA people who are considered most valuable are the ones who write test automation. Based on layoffs I've seen, people who primarily do manual testing seem infinitely more expendable.
Gavin Bailey
Fuck yeah. The problem in the US with litmus tests is that they constantly get struck down because minorities hardly pass them.
Chase Taylor
No no, I've seen screenshots on Pol of "point systems" set up for minorities to be admitted into top law schools in the US. Did you ever see that story about the Indian dude that pretended to be black ao he could get into a specific school?
Jace Flores
>anyone else here go for an IT related degree but have 0 interest in programming? Yes. I can't be the turbocunt who codes frameworks in my spare time and post on Stack Overflow, github, LinkedIn or whatever.
>how did you anons land work fresh out of school? I got lucky but it took at least one year. If you're like me you won't last a full year because you're going to be shit.
7 years later, I'm learning C# and am aiming to become a full stack web developer. I should have started sooner desu.
Aiden Peterson
...
Benjamin Gutierrez
>Did you ever see that story about the Indian dude that pretended to be black ao he could get into a specific school? perma.cc/MMS9-SZZW is the article for reference
Ian Rogers
>they constantly get struck down because minorities hardly pass them.
who would have thought difficult jobs that pay a crap load of money require well rounded intelligence.
Alexander Collins
All of which are very interesting points which I will take note of. As far as my work experience outside of IT support and some coding (I worked on avionics, but lost an FBO gas job to a 19 year old), being overqualified has been the fucking bane of my existence. Every job I've interviewed for or been hired for in the last two years has straight up told me I'm overqualified. The two jobs I got I practically begged for. I understand the reasoning, but fuck mex at the end if the day I just want a job. After you go hungry for a a while, you'll be grateful to that company that gives you a chance.
Joseph James
When I was in 8th grade I was learning Python and studying 8086 assembly (wanted to make DOS apps lol).
Nathaniel Howard
I've reached out to several friends from school and have had them pass on my resume and still haven't gotten anywhere. Never gonna give up user our people need us, I've interviewed for 2 help desks jobs this summer and didn't get either because I lacked experience. At least I'm getting good at interviewing though. Got a buddy who does QA his job seems boring but like fucking cake, guess I'll focus more on the data/ systems analyst avenue as it seems like they have a higher ceiling for opportunity and advancement. I don't even bother applying for programming positions because I know I will hate it and will be shit at it. Had an interview for a data position last week that I felt went good though should know if I got the job by this Wednesday or Friday. Were all gonna make it right guys?
Easton Edwards
>shoot for something higher
Like Network+ and Security+ Certs? I'm new to this industry. I got out of the Air Force as an avionics tech, was 75% done with my ChemE degree and got bored. What would you recommend?
Brandon Richardson
we've tried this numerous times. it ends up being majority white men chosen. fucking women...
Robert Clark
HAH!
Jonathan Hernandez
Thank you user
Jonathan Myers
But that's racisz main!
Nicholas Smith
Now that's ridiculous, and also makes me jealous lol
Isaac Morris
don't be a fucking sysadmin dude
you'll end up hating IT and computers more than anything
I've been in IT for 6 years and have done sysadmin/systems engineering along with network engineering and security (HIPAA / PCI environments mainly)
I'm so burned out in my current position that I literally don't touch my desktop when I get home anymore. I'm posting on my iPad.
Carson Wilson
That's the spirit brother!
Justin Stewart
Well blacks already have half the GPA requirement to whites/asians/indians to get into University here (vid related)
Maybe you should have done internships you lazy faggot. If you didn't do it in school, do it now for $4/hr
Connor Long
Depends on where you want to end up ultimately. The CCNA seems to be a reasonable direction to head in for networking. The MS certs are good for windows admin stuff. For linux stuff, Red Hat certs like the RHCSA are pretty reasonable afaik.
Samuel Cruz
You're weak. I have 30k of server lab at home and i work on it for fun when i get off from work.
Ian Harris
Oh, hippa, I'm sorry
Angel Scott
you think I didn't try to get an internship patches? I applied to probably 100-150 places throughout junior and senior year and only got two interviews out of that which lead nowhere. I went to my uni's career services, asked fellow classmates etc I most definitely didn't sit around like a nigger like your implying.
Camden Perry
I'm not super into computers but in 8th/9th grade I had a decent grasp of MS Office tools and HTML
Jose Martinez
I fucking wish we could go back to a meritocracy and truly equal opportunity employment.
Ian Hernandez
Me too user, me too.
Hudson Powell
Dude, once I realized that there were scholarships and grants EXCLUSIVELY for blacks when I was looking for money fir college before I joined the military, I went full on 14/88, especially after my experience with "people of color" in my public school system growing up.
Evan Scott
She wants to switch to a system where people are judged on social baubles rather than quality of code. She might not be able to program for shit but she can probably network her way into an internship and head of the computer club and research with a professor
Camden Roberts
Nothing pisses off the blue collar white men like being unable to get a job because a minority gets handed it. These are the foot soldiers in a race war.
Luis Russell
Honestly, I got into programming over a spat between myself and other engineering students over a project. With my experience, I could build the electrical and mechanical systems of say, a robot, but I couldn't code so I would get frustrated waiting on them. I still want my engineering degree, but like I said, I got bored.
I don't know where in the IT field I would want to go, but with my mindset, the idea of given a project, say make the brains of a machine, then planning and making it happen is ideal for me. I don't mind troubleshooting either as long as it isn't any more support jobs that make me loose any more hope in humanity. I can't tell you how many times I've spent hours fixing a system that a cocky pilot broke and almost fucked the aircraft, only to see a Major come in and say "I didn't know".
As a start though, would you say getting the Network+ and Security+ certs are worth it or are they a joke too? If they are a joke, what certs, other than what you recommend above would you attain instead? I'm coping this conversation for reference btw.
Owen Davis
100% agree. I didn't realize how many neighbors and family members thought the same until I'd rant with them.
Andrew Butler
>I've had a few job listings direct me to an online test, and I just left the site and didn't return.
ya this is why we have something called SCHOOL, which women ruined with their equality shit. This stuff is fucking CANCER.
Christopher Cooper
The site is ok if not a bit pedantic but the point being made was that she doesn't understand that a stack overflow is an actual technical term. She only knows it as a website. It would be like a person hearing the word apple and not knowing it's a fruit and the tech company is named after that fruit.
Angel Clark
Same thing keeps happening with Google's annual code jam. It's open to everyone but men always win and are all the finalists. They created a special women only division but it's not very popular because the coding results suck.
Nathaniel Kelly
stack overflow is the plebbit of the IT-sphere, if you need help you're going to get some snarky fuckwit guaranteed.
9 times out of 10 your question would have been already answered in a slightly less condescending post though
Easton Myers
I'm surprised that men are so hard set to control the computer technology world. That shit is just thousands of hours spend crooked over a computer staring at lines of code. It's basically the 21st century's version of sewing.
Adrian Cooper
For a general starting point, I guess CompTIA certs are fine. The point I really should've made clearer is that its important to put together a roadmap for where you want to be in the future. Specialization is one way to increase your value. The reason I railed the A+ is that the knowledge required to obtain it is a bit too basic. Anyways, don't read too much into someone ranting about IT certs on a Laotian paper mache boat making internet commune dedicated """politics""".
Daniel Price
Yeah, I definitely got that feeling on there, the same with some Codecademy Mods. Some even said the track hadn't been maintained in years, but I got an email about two weeks ago saying they upgraded it.
Like I said above, I need to hire a tutor who can sit copilot with me and answer some questions about modules and how some features are appended to methods/functions.
Adrian Mitchell
Anonymous hiring leads to less females ironically
Nicholas Long
Also I don't know if I read that right, but based on what you said about project planning you could look into project management as a goal too.
Gavin Lewis
Kek. They should definitely do this, when one govt dept tried this in aus they ended up hiring heaps more men than they wanted to. Further proving men are better employees.
Anthony Collins
>Doesn't want to do coding test
Yeah, you're probably part of the ~70% of applicants that can't solve a fizz buzz/string parsing question on demand. I'd rather have a poo in loo than you as a coworker.
Cameron Sanders
Gotcha. Before I started reading the book, I just took some online tests for kicks to see what I was getting into and kept scoring 60%.
Granted I continue on this path, I'd like to write and diagnose code for networks and applications. If that sounds too broad (and I'm betting it does), I'd like to be that guy who maintains the code/software for a drone company, making sure the "brains" work and make sure the drones can't be spoofed, for example. Or maybe even do some defense/ white hat work ti route through those drones to get into networks where they are deployed. What I DON'T want to do: sit at a help desk and walk people through loading applications.
Nicholas Carter
Project planning is definitely an option. Even as a desk engineer, leves 3-4, that's where the most money and least amount of grunt work is. So project management in IT wouldn't be a bad gig either.
Connor Morris
I'm sorry, but if you are using FizzBuzz as your gatekeeper, you're going to get a bunch of retards that managed to rote learn their way into your company.
The biggest test of a knowledge worker is how they learn the things they don't already know. Any sane knowledge worker is going to be spending a lot of time looking at references, and browsing potential solutions to the problems you present them.
Unless you're only hiring rockstars that demand 6 or more figures, then they've already memorized every single bit of whatever language they are coding in.
James Ward
When I was in 8th grade equivalent I hadn't yet got my first computer and we had TRS-80s and Apple ][s in the school computer lab
Austin Morales
Which makes complete sense. 95% of the people in programming are men. When I took IT courses in college we had one girl in all my classes Freshmen year and zero from then on. She quit IT to go into biology.
Parker Myers
Thats actually a pretty cool goal. I did some projects using a hobby grade UAS and had to do some reading about STANAG 4586 and I think its fairly safe to say that based on what you want, make sure you have a good grasp on networking. Good luck user.
