ITT: we discuss whether the swastika still a valid symbol for the alt right

I see a lot of talk around about whether the swastika is a good symbol. Basically the arguments boil down To these:
No swastika:
>its outdated and doesnt necisarily reflect our views accurately
>lots of historical baggage attached
>easy To demonize by (((them)))je

Yes swastika:
>(((they))) Will always call us nazis anyway so who cares
>its a historically recognizable symbol that is easy To rally behind
>because of normie outrage its easier To spread our message via the news and social media
>watering down the movement To appeal To normies is very risky and could potentially ruin the movement

I can personally see both sides To this but lm not sure

What are some alternatives? The black sun? Identity europa's shield? The axe thing that the italians had? (Forgive my autism i forgot what it was called)
Discuss

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_(heraldry)
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Bump

Good thread, bumping.

any pol media using the swastika is instantly dismissed as LE NAZI and any message ignored

its time for something new

No because I'm literally not a Nazi. it's a political party from another century and I have no connection to it

It's a Indo-European symbol. You can still use it without being a Nazi. Use different colors and a different angle.

I want a modern and all new pro-white movement

I feel like it makes us all look like faggots.

bumping

9.5/10
Good

Isn't the point to be edgy as shit?

If you want anyone to actually listen and not just think of your message as a meme you can't scare 'em away

Better to stop using the swastika as alt-right, just in order to make this symbol invalid. Let's instead use other symbols, like that of a Spartan lambda. Which is a symbol of defense

>flag

The message is the same and can stand on its own. You turn off the normies with the LARPing.
Yes, they will call everyone a NAZI, but you don't have to prove it by waving NAZI symbols into the tv cameras.
Pretty sure people pushing for public display of NAZI symbols are agent provocateurs at this point.

Someone should hit up and ask them to design something

Nationalist symbols should reflect their users' respective countries. While I do see the appeal of the swastika, I'm not sure that there's value in using the symbol of a defeated 20th century German regime, even if one is sympathetic to said government.

The Swastika is integral to out connection with our ancestors, for most of Europe, India..

Fuck the cunts who say what you can and can't have to represent your own personal beliefs and ancestry.

it's a toughie i gotta say i can't make up my mind on this

this

There's NOTHING wrong with the Swastika. However, it has specifically german connotations (yeah yeah, I know that the swastika stems back to indo-european traditions, doesn't matter, it's still german now). My issue is that we need our OWN symbols. Not EVERY far-right/ultra-nationalist/fascist movement needs to ape Germany's National Socialism.

The Phalangists in Spain had their own symbols
The Ustashe in Croatia had their own symbols
The Fascists in Italy had their own symbols
The BUF in Britain had their own symbol

We, as Americans, should have symbols that are specifically American in nature. It's not about being a PR cuck and cowering at the sight of a nazi flag. It's just that we need our own thing. It's not about censoring the old, it's about creating something new.

>The axe thing that the italians had?
You mean the fasces. Actually it's worth a thought. It's use in american symbolism predates italian fascism and a pair of fasces is also present on lincoln memorial. If the left wants to scrutinize the alt right for using it then they'd have to tear down lincoln memorial as well.

bump

It's useless unless you're just trying to trigger the general moderate-centrist, single-issue voting public.

The problem is that most of our countrymen are normies, and we absolutely need normies for a functional society. Normies will be triggered by swastika, but we will have to make sacrifices, since we do need normies. I'm sure everyone reasonable would agree that there are a lot of liberties we must give up to live together. This is not very different from that.

By claiminf the Swastika is outdated you have evidently done little research into it. Even Anglos like myself (ignore flag) had our own version called a Fylfot thousands of years before Christianity came along

What are you sliding my kikeberg?

...

Yes. It shows real conviction. Most white boys in America have a fascination with Nazi Germany that starts from childhood.

Ok what about this?

Your ancestors do. Don't let the jew take away what has been part of your kin and heritage for millennia

>implying I care what you people decide
Sup Forums is not a democracy

>By claiminf the Swastika is outdated you have evidently done little research into it.
It was usable for thousands of years, but it no longer is. Just like certain farm equipment, it has become obsolete.

I think the alt right in general is a terrible idea.
All you're doing is giving everyone else a group to hate. They can call anybody they want 'alt right', and nobody will question it. Same thing is happening with the new 'alt left' label. You've found your Jew to hate.
Instead of playing identity politics, fight the real problem: socialism, and the degeneration of culture.

Just my two cents.

I'm not Alt-right but I will say one thing, the Swastika looks wank. I'v never ever seen the appeal of it as a symbol. That flag they use in censored games with just the Iron Cross looks so much better in my opinion.

These are basically my feelings on the topic, traditionally different countries fashies bave had unique symbols
What exactly constitutes larping? I hear that word thrown around so much les become à meme

Thing is.. Trying to come up with a new symbol on pol will be incredibly hard. You need to have an ethos and movement first. Not just making a cool design then trying to figure out shit around it.

The symbol has to represent the Party and the nation. It has time instill the same emotion in people that hearing a speech from your beloved leviathan leader instills when he talks.

A leader and party must come before the symbol, otherwise you just end up with another Kekistani meme movement.

This is our flag and we will not compromise a square inch of land to commies.
That's what we should be fighting for.

Cargo cultism is a bad idea. Since we need to create a movement with a focus on fighting political correctness first, I would propose icebreaker axe as a symbol first.

This is actually pretty true. The Alt-Right was a hilldawg strawman born from one of Saul's rules. Basically if your enemy doesn't have a face, give it one and make a boogeyman out of it.

It's within in human nature to create a group to make a "clear line" but when this is done people tend to form a group hierarchy. This is where subversion and dismantling becomes easy.

It's very temping though, a lot of people feel more comfortable in their beliefs when they see there is a group.

Perhaps a way around it is to cause a lot of micro groups so that there is no "leader".

I hate this meme
Organizing is what needs up be done were doomed To fail if we stay as atomized shitposters

The emotion is stirs in the bearer of the symbol and the enemies of the symbol is still powerful. Even Jews can't draw it properly when they false flag.

The Swastika isn't obsolete, it's just the men to carry it are too scared of the social ostracism because the movements are weak, that can change though.

May I present, the Wolfsangel!

Making a group is making a snake, with a single head for opposition to cut.
It's much better to make a hydra, too many heads to cut.

>(((they))) Will always call us nazis anyway so who cares
>There's already a fire so it doesn't matter if I dump gasoline.

Never understood this argument. If they are going to call you Nazis anyway, then using it only adds to the bad image that turns off curious normies.

Most nat-soc types seem to think support will just come out of thin air, regardless of how awful they look. Hitler and the Nazi party were clean, professional, and didn't use symbols that carried any baggage.

Anybody that insists Nazi policies depend on using the same symbols is just a LARPing faggot who has no desire to actually see anything come of their beliefs.

It's a symbol specifically for Germany.
You can't copy pasta Fascism from one nation to another, they're all unique to each people.
It is seen as explicitly anti-America because of the war we fought, right or wrong.
It doesn't work, it only pushes normies away when otherwise they would accept every aspect of NatSoc.
America has plenty of fascist symbols and Presidents, Washington and Lincoln are Cincinnatus.
It's for flag cucks who want to give up the American flag, but has the same effect for Antifa.
There's no good reason to use it unless you're a shill or FBI infiltrator or Jew provocator.
The Internet isn't real life, no decent men would wave it because it shuts down conversation.
In short, fine for online and underlying ideology, bad for irl.

Did you user know Finland still has the swastika on their military.

This is the correct answer

Normies are as much the enemy as the commie scum. In the end you'll end believing in nothing because believing in something will scare the normies away.

Concern trolls cannot be allowed to dictate what symbols a movement can or cannot use.

I say this, but I still enjoy the swastika. That said I think it should remain the same or change to this. Or neither and we just leave it alone. Lol Not really helping.

As much as I love the swastika, it has to go. Normies will never rally behind it nor support our cause. Another thing is, its just old and outdated, we need something new and aesthetic

How about we compromise and erase California?

all the pros to using a swastika are so dumb. none of them make any sense let alone outweigh the cons

ur a pussy bitch and not a fascist

People get insanely triggered by this symbol. That brings into the daylight the brainwashing that causes the triggering. Not tolerating the use of any symbol is thought crime, the swastika should be displayed as much as possible as long as it's considered thought crime.

you have to be 18 to post on this website

It's stupid to use the swastika. Only people using it are in it for their own fefe's. They accomplish nothing. Don't even involved them in anything. They just want to larp. Symbols in general are minor issues right now. People need to be redpilled on race. Race deniers need to be soundly defeated on the fields of social debate before anything can even begin. We don't have enough numbers. They must grow. Woowoo I'm a nazi, does not grow anything, or do anything. It accomplishes nothing.

THIS^^^^^^

you totally fell for the lefty collective identity bullshit. you have been cucked

Keep the swastika its taboo, keep every think they hate.

(((they))) hate any think European.
Do we want the normies coming here getting trigger.

I say keep it

Ideas to change:
>tiki (((torch)))
>St. Peter's Keys
>Lightning Bolt
>Templar Cross
>Frog
>45 degree arm salute (similar to the commie fist)
>implementation of the sun
>

It just pushes people away

Bullshit, I speak with business leaders (people with influenece and resources) in my community everyday. You want to know what I found? They are all for the 14 words without even knowing there is such a thing.
The only difference between you and I are, I wear a suit and you dress like a slob waving a NAZI flag. Our message is the exact same. But I appeal to those who actually matter and you don't.
You guys need to be more realistic. Don't assume everyone is "red-pilled".

Groups, to me, are the single scariest thing people can do. You forego intelligence and are rewarded with lack of consequence.
Any group's IQ can be derived by average IQ of each person, divided by two.
Case in point, every fucking time both sides are at a protest.
If you want to make a difference, go convert people. Deal with the individual, and let them do the same. You can't win anything unless each member has a concise understanding of the goals, and the methods to achieve them. This doesn't happen in a group.

>nazis are left
>muh collectivism
>muh individualism

i know more about this stuff than everyone that disagree's with me put together. you sound like someone trying to convince a mechanic that he knows a lot about cars by discussing what kind of gasoline he puts in his windshield wipers.

California is an awesome place to live. It's the people that need to go.

Posting this here too. Made it for shits
Top is "Western Legion"
Bottom is US Motto

It doesn't matter what people use, there isn't a real pro-white politically party and paramilitary backing it. Going around Rallying doesn't achieve anything except remind normies of your presence.

You won't win this movement until there is a real political party. When that happens they will make a platform and new symbols.

That is a pretty moving quote. Rockwell is a personal hero of mine. He had the courage to stand up for the truth long before it became such a widespread movement. Back then most people just called it common sense. It isn't as dead in this world today as some would have you believe. There still exist large swaths of real America to this very day, and we don't plan on going anywhere.

>It's use in american symbolism predates italian fascism
It was used by Romans way before the Americans.

Fascism in Italy had their own flag and symbol. Same for Romania. Same for Germany. Etc etc. Again, you can't just copy pasta a (((Hollywood Nazi))) if you truly believe in the underlying philosophy instead of just being an edgy attention whore. Look at history, it has never worked that way. Everyone skeptical has valid inclinations even if they didn't first understand this explicitly because they're not LARPers. George Lincoln Rockwell in his book This Time The World was wrong, the symbol and flag must be unique to the nation. See the Iron Guard symbol for Romania. They're just different, they can even be variations, but they must be unique.

if you're pro nazi you're basically a lefty chad in denial. go suck some dick faggot and stop embedding your identity into nazism. go get a fucking hobby

Stop being an anarchistic fag. Atomized we die together we overcome

but what does it mean

Nazism was as much threat to existence of European Culture as Jews are:
* Nazis collaborated with Commies to invide Poland
* Nazis killed milions of white people
* Holocaust was caried out to kill off less important Jews (eugenics in action) and give them immunity forever via ADL (the Antisemitism)
* Nazis secured safety of Jewish elite via Haavara Agreement and created a foundation for state of Israel almost pro bono
* Our proud white grandfathers didn't die for us to march under their flag

Smash Both Commies and Fascists, Fuck Cultural Marxism and Fuck REAL Racists: Zionists (Jewish supremacy advocates), BLM (Black supremacy advocates) & DemoKKKrats

Groups give manpower though and create a psychological effect of strength, hence peoples attraction to them. I'm not advocating the formation of a group, let alone the "alt right" strawman, but I am pointing out the temptation.

you are not even capable of identifying right handed vs left handed traits, you snaggletoothed serf.

The leftists have been allowed to control what is acceptable and what isn't for decades. This can't be tolerated or they will always win. The swastika must be accepted as a form of free speech.

Without the swastika guys the extreme left wouldn't be chimping out. Long term the chimp out will cause more of a backslash against them than peaceful protesters exercising free speech by displaying a symbol. The leftist media in Iceland usually just copies the mainstream narrative but now Trump suddenly is clearly the reasonable one, they can't even ridicule "fake news" anymore because the circus is so transparent.

Thoughts?

I said it predates italian fascism not the roman empire, which itself was a role model for the USA

>falling for the identity politics meme
There's a reason why everyone who disagrees with the socialists are called alt-right. Because when you have a unified front, you have a faceless mass you can hate. You can convince people that these people aren't human, they're monsters. You can see this throughout history, what with the Jews vs the Deutschvolk in and around WWII, the Americans vs the Red Plague during the Cold War, the Alt-Right and the Alt-Left are no different. Just faceless groups to direct hatred.
If you want to get your message across, maintain consistency, and have it stick, you cannot do it as a collective.
People call me alt-right. It's not because I believe in something, it's because I don't believe in something.
Stop being a part of a circlejerk cult.

I like this flag, but it's clearly roman, and not American. Each nation needs to have its own flag for its people. I wouldn't want to use this flag for American Nationalism for the same reason I wouldn't want to use Germany's 3rd Reich Flag: it's not American.

Needs to be steeped in American mythos. It IS a really cool flag though, and it'd be great for some form of neo-roman empire.

Guys who think they're better than others because they wear suits are shitheads.

I don't deny the temptation, it's very prevalent and even easier to fall into. But that's why labels stick, and that's why, if people here want to actually make a difference, they have to stop playing the identity politics game.

Most likely shariablue trying to get Sup Forums to gravitate away from the swastika. They can go to hell, they can go to hell and die.

Don't fuck with the colors, user.

Pic related.

Originally cosplay for autists innawoods, the D&D type.
Now it means spergs that like the feeling they get when the play dress up like little girls.
Playing in costumes even if it subverts the stated ideals of what is being represented.
It is not the same as asthetics, because that is important too, just not at the cost of everything else.

BLUS WON :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

When was the last time a bunch of atomized people accomplished literally anything? Never, because only through unity çan one succeed

Good thread, valid question.

I think each nation's branch of the "alt-right" ought to organize their own symbols. Not only is the swastika seen by many who are out of the "loop" (if you will) as evil, but it is also a very alien symbol to much of North America and a lot of European countries. Each country should promote their own cultures and therefore establish their own symbols. While the swastika is a wonderful example of the ancient dynamism of the European peoples it fails to convey a sense of familiarity in many who see it. It portrays a perceived threat to the native way of life of that specific people. And while I think it'd be good for Germany and Austria to readopt, I do not think that it ought to be used as a universal symbol for the entirety of the alt-right.

The internet seems to be doing okay.
You could argue that the internet is the best example of individuals making change, and you can argue the opposite.
Original point is, the label alt-right needs to die if you want to go any farther with any semblance of success.

Eagle is a perfect symbol for any European-descent nation, it symbolises perspicacity, courage, strength and immortality. SPQR, Poland, United States of America and so on. No conotation with any extreme ideology. It's perfect!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_(heraldry)

It's evidently a good idéa to use the swastika online. Be as edgy as possible. This way you get more controversy, views and clicks and thus your message reaches a larger audience and helps push the over-ton window to the right. The daily stormer gets alot more views compared to altright.com because it is edgier.

IRL however it's best to not use the swastika. Learn from the nordic resistance movement and copy what they do. They are national socialists but that doesn't mean they are larpy skinheads that have swastikas around. It's the views that matter and that's what people rally around.

Absolutely not. The media will call us Nazis but it just discredits them unless they can back it up with a photo of us eith a nazi flag. And we are not nazis anyway, were not german nationalists. America has its own history and people and we have to do our own thing. Something unique for us is what will draw people in. And it doesn't mean we have to disown everything nazism believed in, we can take the good parts and leave the bad parts.

People who shy at hakenkreutz are worthless (((concern trolls))).

Damn straight. Prime symbol. Hell America even has it's own variation. Plus the alpine eagle is aesthetic as a motherfucker. Good idea, Polbro.

Looks like the faction of some game. Stay classic and traditional.
I prefer the fasces

No its a terrible idea stop being such a sperg and go make white babies.

why would you use a socialist flag for a right wing group?

Damn, rare. Glad to have you though.