B-but muh antifa are the REAL fascists!

>b-but muh antifa are the REAL fascists!

Other urls found in this thread:

quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/04/anti-fascism/
theblaze.com/podcasts/did-churchill-really-say-that/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954
youtube.com/watch?v=UBmuDDm_CuM
newsweek.com/berkeley-mayor-calls-antifa-be-classified-crime-gang-after-clashes-sunday-656286
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>all wear cult-like black uniforms
>cover their faces because of shame
>assault people who think differently
>hate police
>"totally not fascists guys"

God damn Mussolini was aesthetic as fuck.

So they have all the authoritarian downsides of fascism, without any of the benefits a temporary dictatorship can bring?

Ikr? How can they be fascists when they have an anti in front of it, literally makes them antifascists. Like wake up people look at their name, Drumpf and his Drumpfies are the real fascists.

They're both totalitarians, who gives a fuck that the term fascist is misused by everyone and their grandma.
As a matter of political heritage both movements are inbred, kissing cousins. Hell the fucking SA had members going back and forth between the communist kampfgruppen. And the Fascist party in Italy was a direct off shoot from the communist party

>those definitions
wtf I love fascism??

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Well, it's no secret that Mussolini was once a socialist, even a Marxist for a time. The point is he took the ideas he liked about socialism and formulated a new position infused with Right-wing ideas. Just because it had its ideological roots in socialism, doesn't mean that it remained qualitatively identical. It evolved and morphed over time.

You are normalizing the belief which nobody here thinks, or maybe you know that

>if you wear a black uniform it necessarily follows that you must be either a bona fide fascist or a member of antifa

Right, so under your definition, cops and priests must be thrown into either one of those groups? Fucking hell, have a bit of nuance.

It's only alt-lite conservacucks who say that you retard

I have seen numerous imbeciles around here making the comparison. It's the same false equivalence that people like Sargon make when they say that the alt-right and SJWs are the same.

Are cops and priests marching in the streets shouting about their ideology? Are they planning to one day overthrow the government and install some crack pipe dream of a socialist utopia?

Are you implying he didn't say that? Or are you just a fucking asshole?

>Are you implying he didn't say that?
That is precisely what i'm implying, asshole.

Obviously not, but he didn't even bother to make that distinction. He presented his argument as "they both wear black" and left it at that.

They're communistic fascists.

Look past the labels and look at their values.

They are certainely not real fascists but they are totally what they describe as fascists

Antifa are just anarchist children who live with their parents.

They've called themselves black block, anarchists, and now Antifa... but its the same bunch of losers just looking for excuses to kick over trash cans and break storefront windows.

They don't actually have a cause.

Now you're just muddling incompatible things together.

Communism
>egalitarian
>workers own the means of production
>classless society
>no private property
>anti-religion

Fascism
>hierarchical
>government directed private companies own the means of production
>class-based society
>private property allowed
>pro-religion

He did say that though.

Mussolini was editor in the largest Marxist newspaper at the time, in speeches and texts he never stopped identifying as a Marxist.
The simple reason that he left that party was pragmatism: During the invasion of Libya he found that nationalist, militaristic rhetoric was much more effective at mobilizing the working class than his paper ever was.

Then surely you have a source?

There are other variations of the quote supposedly said by other people throughout the years but not one from Churchill.

quoteinvestigator.com/2017/03/04/anti-fascism/

Not even conservatives believe he said it

theblaze.com/podcasts/did-churchill-really-say-that/

>not all fascists are Nazis but all Nazis are fascists.
fascism is an umbrella term as it includes not just nazis but spanish fascists, italian fascists, chilian fascists and even anti fa. its like fruit all apples are fruit but oranges are not apples yet are also fruit as well.

WAS an editor of a Marxist newspaper. He later went on to synthesize an ideology which is inimical to Marxism in many ways.

A fascist does not a national socialist make.

>QuoteInvestigator

>some say that he stays up at night planning the overthrow of the state, and that he still lives with his parents. All we know is that he's called The Stig.

He never moved away from the core tenants of Marxism tho, merely incorporated another level: Il Duce, the leader of the people. based on the experience that people crave leaders and are apathetic towards idealism

Where is your source? A person who we can look into at the time and place of Churchill who claims he uttered those words? A historian? Do you even have a year? No? Then go fuck yourself.

See:

>tends toward anarchy
how is this a good thing lmao
>workers own the means of production
workers' soviets own the means of production lmao, not the same thing

They're not fascists. They're objectively worse and more violent than fascists. Fascism isn't a bad thing, and you don't believe it is. You actually agree with 100% of fascism, and if you don't, it's because you hate your own people and your own country.

I'am a Fascist!

I didn't say it was a good thing.

>both are ideological monoliths that disallow dissent
>both seek to use violence to remove liberties
>both reject the notion of freedom in favor of an authority ("but muh no archons...except the community leaders")
Phenotypically identical even if their genetics are different. That's horseshoe theory.

...

>facists so non existent you have to find a black and white picture

>antifa running around right now

Gee I wonder why antifa is the problem.

Anti fa is a funny combination of anarchism and communism.

I believe that either through misunderstanding/ not understanding or by somehow making it make sense in their head they can make the connection. Behind the scenes there are the ones that would use anarchism as a tool to remove the current government to institute communism.

>how is this a good thing lmao
There's anarchy and there's Anarchy. No need to agree with Kropotkin or Bakunin but they're entertaining to read.

>Will force their worldview on people through violence and intimidation
>not fascists

Nigger, are you retarded?

No. You are all fucking communist.
It's perfectly okay (and legal) to kill commies in the USA

methodology != ideology

>expecting video evidence of something that occurred 75 years ago

Shoo shoo red scum

They're communists ffs

>muh peaceful anarchism

You are what you do and say, not what you think. If I kill someone I'm still a murderer even if I think murder is wrong.

If you act like a fascist then you are a fascist.

>video evidence
Where did i ask for that, my straw-manning friend? I asked for a source. We have these people called historians who have been recording history for thousands of years. Keep feigning smugness in lieu of actually proving your claim though.

ITT people confusing Fascism with Totalitarianism

Calling them communist should be enough of an insult problem is our education systems teach us nothing of the inevitable authoritarianism and idealogical genocide that comes from communism

Fascism is a distinct set of beliefs. Historical manifestations of Fascist movements did indeed use intimidation as a means of control, as have various Communist movements. Does that mean that they are qualitatively similar in terms of their beliefs and their visions for the world? No.

Manlets always use this camera angle.

>sees bullet points
>picks one and straw mans hard

tfw the bait is too shiny

>workers own the means of production
vs.
>government directed private companies own the means of production
In every Communist, or more broadly every Socialist state, this is the government directing the means of production. The only difference in the Fascist scheme is that the company retains its former name -- the government still has control over every aspect of the operation. The difference between Communism and Fascism is in the rhetoric. Communism rallies around the working class vs. the bourgeoisie, and Fascism rallies around race and nationality vs. foreigners and minorities. Their actions tend to be very similar and their philosophical roots both lie in Marx.

We're not national socialists, we're international socialists

That's true. "Communist" doesn't have nearly the same punch to it as "Fascist". And that's entirely to do with how we're brought up to view each system. Leftists are allowed to flirt with their more extreme forms, they can wave the hammer and sickle. But right-wingers have been deliberately cutoff from their more ideologically radical forms.

That makes you a commie. Which means you have no rights in the United States.
>The Communist Control Act was originally proposed as an amendment to the Internal Security Act of 1950, which had sought to combat the spread of communism in labor unions. Apart from its secondary focus which concentrated on the illegality of “communist front organizations”, the bill was drafted with the intention of tackling the root of the communist problem in America: the Communist Party. In its second section, the CCA of 1954 portrayed the American Communist Party as an “agency of a hostile foreign power.(i.e. George Soros)” The Party was described as “an instrumentality of a conspiracy to overthrow the government,” and as a “clear, present, and continuing danger to the security of the United States.” The Act made membership to the Communist Party a criminal act and stipulated that all Party members would be sanctioned with up to a $10,000 fine or imprisonment for five years or both. Additionally, according to the third section, the Communist Party would be deprived of “the rights, privileges, and immunities of a legal body.”
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Control_Act_of_1954

We've already covered this. Yes Mussolini was a Marxist at one point. He took some of those socialist precepts and combined them with more Right-wing ideas.

>The difference between Communism and Fascism is in the rhetoric
I don't know how you could look at the fundamental beliefs of the two systems and come away thinking that.

Their ideology isn't fascist, therefore antifas arent fascists. For fucks sake, this isn't hard to understand. They are anarchists and communists, thug like behavior isn't fascist or not fascist, its a means to an end. People like you who call anyone who resorts to political violence, a fascist, are utterly misinformed as to what any of these ideologies actually are. WORDS HAVE MEANINGS YOU FUCKER.

All of my what

Another dumb nigger who doesn't understand what either fascism or communism is. Fucking hell. Now I know why in the past we had kings, the average person is just too fucking dumb for this shit. Let's get to it then. Violence is not a defining factor of an ideology. Violence is just a tool. Any ideology can be violent. ANY ONE. Violence is not a trait of any specific ideology. Same things goes for the banning of dissent. Now, antifas do not unanimously recognize any kind of authority, since some of them are literal ANARCHISTS. Anarchists, the traditional kind, so all of them except AnCaps, do not recognize the validity of ANY KIND of authority or HIERARCHY. This is the exact opposite of what fascism preaches in this regard. Freedom is also a subjective thing, believe it or not. Except for the most objective types of freedom restriction, such as literal chains and bondage, what freedom actually is varies depending on your perspective and worldview. Again, "they are ant-freedumb!" is not something that can only be used to describe fascists. And finally, the horeshoe theory is absolute nonsense. The ONLY THING that the extreme "left" and the extreme "right" have in common, THE ONLY ONE, is that they are both willing to use extreme measures to achieve their goals, for them the ends justify the means, violence is a tool, and action is necessary. Thats fucking it. One similarity, a superficial one at that, and thousands of differences.

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>feigning smugness
>feigning

Of course they're fascists you autist. They openly condone violence in order to silence a group of people for their speech alone

Lol, you got me there.

Holy shit has this act been scrubbed from the books or can Trump still technically use it to declare membership with Antifa a criminal act

Well, would you look at that, more smug, no source. I'll take that as your concession, we're done here.

Oh are we?

>ignoring the fundamental ideological distinctions between Fascism and Communism and narrowing in on their approach to one particular issue.

Because they're both collectivist ideologies that do the same shit. Fascism discriminates based on nationality. National Socialism discriminates based on race. Communism discriminates based on class. The differences in the societies they produce arise from these aspects. The core is the state controlling major industries and supporting a welfare state while castigating dissenting ideologies as morally evil.

>tends towards anarchy

anarcho-communists are strange creatures

Thats not what Antifa is. Nice try though

We have nothing against the family unit, especially if it benefits humans to live in one.

We don't believe in equality, we believe in "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

We don't reject the nation state initially because we need it to reach a society where we don't need one anymore.

>and even anti fa
Authoritarian and militant =/= fascist

I'm not denying that they're both collectivist. But that's only one dimension of it and there are many more to consider.

Your against whatever you are paid to be against you stupid fuck
youtube.com/watch?v=UBmuDDm_CuM

Authoritarian =/ fascism, there's left and right wing authoritarian ideologies you absolute fucking retards. I can't believe how much lolbertarians on here actually think that all authoritarians are left wing and preach the same shit.

Your idea is doomed to give way to the likes of Bolsheviks and every other real-world socialist nation. Moreover your ideology is inherently flawed. Free societies are capitalist societies. Capitalism is what you get when individuals have free agency and make voluntary transactions with other individuals. The only way you can achieve collective ownership is by infringing upon those freedoms.

For once, a Libertarian isn't a retard. Good job, OP.

>w-we're nice and reasonable g-guys, honestly!

newsweek.com/berkeley-mayor-calls-antifa-be-classified-crime-gang-after-clashes-sunday-656286

It irritates me that so many on the right attempt to deflect the criticism from the left that they are fascists by labeling ANTIFA as "fascist". This is a weak position to take as it boils down to a "no, you are" argument.

There is nothing fascist about ANTIFA: they are militant and extremist marxist-communists (aka Bolsheviks). The only thing they have in common with fascists is, at various points in history, fascists have also been extremist and militant. Beyond that, ideologically, fascists are entirely different, as pointed out by OP.

Actually, it's murder.

Not even a libertarian per-se. Don't know what the fuck I am to be honest. I'm just sick of seeing people melding together totally antithetical things.

Have you been awake the past 70 years?

nope, see

Agreed. We should be calling them what they are - Communists. But that doesn't have quite the same sting to it in contemporary politics.

The Act isn't enforced anymore, seeing as CPUSA exists.

The antifa / fascist comparison is stupid and I have never agreed with it. But what a stupid nigger will usually do at this point is think HAHA FASCISTS MUS BE TOTALLY WORSE DEN RITE?

No. Antifa are incredibly stupid and dangerous. Get back to me when the white nationalist groups actively start burning and looting neighborhoods for months while putting people in the hospital just because they looked like they might not be antifa. That fat charlottesville pig did actually die, yes - but even then this was after someone started attacking the back of that guy's car first.

Whether antifa is comparable to fascism or not is irrelevant.
Antifa is garbage and the only "justice" they deserve is a boot on their throat as a bullet goes through their brain.

Well Libertarians are the most infuriating people to argue against as a NatSoc/Fascist because that's all they do.
90% are newfags that don't know what TGSNT is or have never watched it.

Killing communists isn't murder.

>history books don't exist

Literally nowhere does it allow killing communists. Put your torture tools and Chilean military hat away.

Literally every civilized country's laws say it is. If you kill a communist, you'll go on trial for murder, whether you're in the USA, Japan, France, the U.K., Italy, or wherever.

>Additionally, according to the third section, the Communist Party would be deprived of “the rights, privileges, and immunities of a legal body.”

The Communist Party wouldn't be protected under free speech, but nowhere does the text say it would be legal to kill communists. You must be blind.

Fascism is a type of socialism. Both Hitler and Mussolini were lifelong socialists.

That's only one dimension of it.

See: and:

Sorry friend. We are just going to have to agree to disagree on account of it not only being acceptable to kill commies, but a moral duty.