I know that civic nationalists get shit on here but I don't quite understand why...

I know that civic nationalists get shit on here but I don't quite understand why. All I want are sane policies that promote the long term interests of my countrymen, and not have mass immigration that dilutes our society. What's so bad about that? Why is participating in intranational racial identity politics do necessary?

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States
eupedia.com/europe/benelux_france_dna_project.shtml#Benelux
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

>Why is participating in intranational racial identity politics do necessary?

Because the other side is doing it too

>All I want are sane policies that promote the long term interests of my countrymen, and not have mass immigration that dilutes our society.

That translates to "Literal Nazi" in the mind of a normie

America was founded on the principles of civic nationalism. Look where it got us.

All I want is a cute uncut ginger twink to stuff my mouth

It got us many years of prosperity, it's only since feminism that it has broke down

Remove women's voting rights and literally everything will be fixed

That's quite wrong. It was built on individualism.

America was +85% white up until the immigration act of 1965. Guess who championed that one

Our founders were very strict about the racial makeup of the country.

Liberalism was destroyed and recreated by the elite. To pretend our founding principles got us here is absurd.

>Guess who championed that one

The people who were enabled by civic nationalism to subvert the nation that adopted them.

Cultural nationalism is the superior compromise position.

>still debating civic nationalism vs ethnic nationalism
>not taking the national transhumanism red pill

Are you retarded?

>civic nationalists: any amount of shitskins can come here so long they assimilate! hurr durr
>non-retards: so you're going to displace, and then replace the native population with unchecked waves upon waves of immigrants, which is EXACTLY what progressives want, the only difference is some basic, unverifiable, token lip service to becoming "assimilated"

Fuck off kike

Culture comes from race

maybe because you guys barely leave the house and don't have the life experience or maturity to be talking about such grand subjects

Ad hominem

Not an argument

This is some cuckpill shit you're on, fampai.

Every society goes through ideological changes due to tons of factors. You could equivalently say they were enabled by christianity, but i doubt you're going to agree to that.

Prove it.

...

SLIDE THREAD

Who developed European culture? Who developed Asian culture?

nope this is a flawed view my friend.
>>can manipulate genetics
>>make everyone in the world white
>>die of a disease that only kills whites
>>world ends

or

>>can manipulate genetics
>>make this tech mandatory around the world
>>tall high iq whites with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq blacks with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq yellows with its best genes augmented
>>tall high iq browns with its best genes augmented
>>in less than 100 years wars will stop
>>we start bringing earth back to life

There is no one European culture, there is no one Asian culture. Greece is very different from England and India is very different from Japan.

This. Culture and race are intrinsically bound and inseparable, which is another huge part of why civic nationalism is flawed on the fundamental level.

Just look at cultural trends throughout history, its pretty fucking obvious it does.
Cultural mores, standards, etc. have always developed along strict racial lines, and they continue to do so, even in this age of "progressiveness"

Even when you get a cultural trend that seems to have members of all races, (i.e. gang/hood culture), each race has their own observable variation of it. Just look at wiggers vs actual nigger gangbangers, vs hispanic gangers. Very clear differences.

its just shareblue shit stirrers trying to drive a wedge in the nationalist community to keep us fighting each other instead of against globalism.

Belgium and the Netherlands are culturally but not racially distinct.

back then civic nationalism just meant different types of europeans though, nobody thought indians, east asians, or africans would ever be let in or find a way to get here.

This was back in a time when marrying outside of your community was even a strange thing for more lower class people.

...

Yeah because all cultures in Europe and Asian developed in isolated and sterile environments from each other, right?

>There is no one European culture, there is no one Asian culture
This doesn't actually prove anything one way or the other, you're just stating the obvious. How about you say something with actual substance to it? Seriously what the fuck.

>greece is very different from england
>greek culture arose from greek people
>english culture arose from anglo-saxons
Retardation.

Ethnonationalism is the centrist position between tribal chauvinism and ethnic tolerance. I'm actually happy that there isn't much intra-european conflict, whites don't slaughter each other anymore. But the tolerance got a bit overboard and mcuh too fast, now we accept the whole world before we even got the chance to unite.

>be founder
>rebel against the crown
>form country
>make it a literal white nationalist state
>centuries later, people are convinced you made some bullshit civcuck faggotry

That doesn't really prove anything one way or the other, either.

>nobody thought indians, east asians, or africans would ever be let in or find a way to get here.

You idiots just don't get it, do you?

It doesn't matter what our ancestors thought, or intended, or whether America was founded on this principle or that principle that was supposed to keep this modern hellhole from becoming a reality.

The fact of the matter is that where we were then led to where we are today. And that means that IT DOES NOT WORK. Period, full stop.

You can blather on all you like about how it would have worked if such and such had happened. But it didn't happen, did it?

Hitting the reset button does nothing except lead to the exact situation we are in today two centuries down the road, meaning your children, if you are allowed to have them, will be facing the same situation you are today with nothing to show for it.

Difference in culture in racial groups shows culture is not determined by race. How is that not of substance?

It was first decided in 1908 that pic related girl is white and not asian. Benjamin Franklin was not happy with the huge amount of Germans moving into your ''civic nationalist'' America. Stop marxist-washing history. Not being a racist is extremely recent phenomenon, and we are starting to understand why.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_whiteness_in_the_United_States

Are you seriously saying that Europeans are all one race and that asians are all one race?

I was only pointing out that you were wrong about the founding fathers being civcucks.

...

That's how many are cutting it these days. If you want to go down to countries I'll just show variance in the culture of countries. American South vs. American North. Scots vs. English. There can even be variance inside of those.

The only acceptable type of civic nationalism IMO os one with a strong eugenic base but most civnats don't even accept that. Covnats are people with he right intentions but without the realization that the improvement and restoration of this country to greatness and propriety will require hard decisions.

Belgium actually is ethnically distinct from the netherlands.

Most of the residents in the netherlands are Dutch, whereas in belgium, there are two main ethnic groups, the walloons and flemish. There have even been multiple separatist movements from the walloons and flemish to form their own ethnostate over the years, and this is why most people call Belgium a non-country you stupid shit.

The fact that you think belgium and the netherlands aren't racially distinct speaks volumes about your ignorance about the entire subject.

or excuse me, aren't *ethnically diverse, since technically they're of the white "race." Semantics.

shut the fuck up faggot, let's stop pretending the civnat cucks even have thought out their ideology that they didn't even label until a few months ago when they fell for the civnat psyop; civnats are simply nationalists with watered down views because they don't want to get called racisss, basically liberals

You said culture and race are united, but now you're saying culture and ethnicity are united, those are very different views mate.

>That's how many are cutting it these days
So lets see, you're defining the terms of race and ethnicity in such a way that they entirely suit your argument, so you can automatically dismiss anyone who disagrees with you? That's... real mature. Fuck off?

>Scots vs. English
different ethnicities.

>american south vs american north
Also demonstrably ethnically different.
Of course, American whites are different from European whites, since American whites are almost entirely mixed whites now.

Also, there's the fact that yes, different parts of a theoretically ethnically-homogenous country will have different customs from town to town, but these differences pale in comparison to those between different ethnic and racial groups.

...

Race - mongoloids (asians) vs caucasoids (europeans/middle east) vs negroids (niggers) vs australoids. Or, whites vs semites vs blacks vs asians vs polynesians, etc. etc.

Ethnicity has always typically referred to further categorizing peoples into more specific groups within each race.

I have not changed definitions, I have moved from talking about race to ethnicity since our discussion has focused from race on a global scale, to talking about European and the different cultures on the European continent.

Surely you can stop being so petty about semantics?... probably not :^)

eupedia.com/europe/benelux_france_dna_project.shtml#Benelux

There is variety of course but you see bigger differences internally in France than between Belgium and the Netherlands. The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.

>Ethnicity has always typically referred to further categorizing peoples into more specific groups within each race.
some examples being flemish vs walloon vs french vs german vs polish, all of these ethnicities being part of the common definition of what the white race is.

Just wanted to add examples to clear any confusion on your part.

>The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.
There are huge cultural differences in Belgium between the Flemish and Walloons, and from the dutch in the netherlands, just as there are very clear and defined ethnic differences between all these groups.
You haven't proved anything by saying "The groups you mentioned are to a significant degree cultural.", and haven't disproved what I'm saying in the slightest.

Also, do you think all of france shares one singular "french" culture? There are different cultural trends throughout france, and there always has been throughout history. The key point being that differences between different regions in france aren't that large as compared to the differences between the french and the germans, or the french and the flemish etc.

Let's take a step back. I was arguing race and culture are not linked, I used ethnicity differences as a way of showing that model as inaccurate. I'm not quite sure what you were arguing anymore.

Yes, France shares a greater culture, divided into smaller regional sub-cultures, and more recently some alien cultures.

I've sourced my position with that link. You're just saying 'no you'.

I have to leave the computer for a second, I won't be able to respond for a minute or two, excuse me.

Because user the damage has been done. We need to cleans our society from the Jews and mud people

Even the founders of our country understood civic cuckism would fail. They fucked up when they let the dredges of Europe inhabit America, starting with the Germans.

Yeah, Germans ruined fucking everything and yet they larp as being the "master race".

I'm back.

Civic nationalists are literally science-deniers.

Oh gee, whoops, I suppose I did shift definitions of race vs ethnicity. Well, my bad. This doesn't really change what I"m trying to get at though, because going back to the original argument
Ok, culture doesn't come from race, but it is very intrinsically tied to ethnicity. These ethnicities which go on to make up each race, if we are going by the definitions i outlined in So, yeah I went full retard in this post , but the idea that culture is very dependent on their genetic heritage (ethnicity) is very correct.

If you like the way things are now, then keep pushing civic nationalism.

I hate the term "civic nationalism". it is confusing. Americans who want to put down the commie menace and don't mind the best pajeets living here are not the same as centrist cucks who think muh principles and voting will save the country.

the term civic nationalism does not clearly denote one or the other in conversation

if you are a nationalist then you would want what is best for your country, not to weaken their genetics

We should clone Jackson and let him genocide the mexicans. Trail of beans incoming.

The graphs in the link you posted dont really prove anything, though. Who's to say which haplogroup maps better define ethnic lines, and which ones are less significant. I mean, biologists and the like are the ones who have authority on this subject, but I'm not a biologist and I'm going to wager you aren't one either.

...

Finally, someone else who realized America was gone from the get-go.

WASP America = the one true America

The Germans and Scandinavians stole the AS right from under us, then the Irish, Italians and Slavs stole the P, and now the Latinos, Asians and Arabs are coming for the W.

America has been dying on the vine for the last two centuries. Now comes the final nail in the coffin.

...

I suppose I could live with that, though one has to admit culture in ethnic groups is very fluid. Many European countries have changed from branch to branch of Christianity.

could I have some context for what this map is about lol

Civic/ethno shitflinging nationalist threads are shill threads, simple.

It shows at least 8 genetic groupings, All of which are more varied within France than between Belgium and the Netherlands. Pick which ones you like, my position doesn't change.

This is based on language which is cultural.

genetic similarity laid over a map of europe

This board moves in memetics faster than the rest of the world.

>Memetics is the study of information based on an analogy with Darwinian evolution. Proponents describe memetics as an approach to evolutionary models of cultural information transfer.

Memes are basically ideas or concepts that exist beyond a single person, and they are subject to a form of natural selection similarly found in Darwinian evolution. Sup Forums is a medium where memetics moves at a very very rapid pace and may literally evolve to be hostile to its own memetic ancestors (it's quite obvious with the way Sup Forums devours traditional Libertarian ideology despite being strongly Libertarian in the past). I don't know if Sup Forums is correct in what it currently thinks, but if Sup Forums is hostile towards civic nationalism and civic nationalism doesn't stand on its own, that means civic nationalism still has some evolving to do and isn't robust.

civic nationalism fails because it fails to strengthen its people through racial purification, it is an appeasement ideology

These arguments do not prove that the mind is made by the body. They do not demonstrate that intelligence and personality are predetermined by your genes. If biological racialism were the answer to everything then Alexandre Dumas, one of the greatest minds France ever produced and a perfect Frenchman in every way, would be an impossibility. How is he to be accounted for in simplistic materialistic terms?

You presume that "racial purification" i.e. materialism is what makes us what we are, rather than our own immortal and immaterial soul exercising its freedom of will.

culture is always a rapidly changing beast, no matter what. When it does change though, the changes always disperse among ethnic lines, and when cultural trends do cross ethnic lines, each ethnic/racial group has their own take on it.

For example, gang culture always manifests different along ethnic lines. You can even see different races behave differently on twitter with twitter memes, or facebook.

walloons speak french, so no, if it was defined by language, you would just call the region "french" instead of walloon. Try again.

>It shows at least 8 genetic groupings, All of which are more varied within France than between Belgium and the Netherlands.
You have absolutely nothing to prove they are more varied or have more observable genetic differences, than of the ethnic differences found between Flems/waloons/dutch.

Dont forget that there are cultural differences between different regions in france - > different regions in france have different customs - > cultural differences still have a trend based on ethnicity.

Also don't forget that despite being ethnically different, everyone in France (not including shitskins) is still white. Obviously there are no strict, definable rules but you must be able to see that cultural differences and changes very often disperse along ethnic boundaries more than anything else.

>i.e. materialism
no genetics

>is what makes us what we are
Yes, objectively

> rather than our own immortal and immaterial soul
only humans have souls, not subhumans

>exercising its freedom of will
doesnt exist

>that the mind is made by the body.
the mind is the body, senpai.

> intelligence and personality are predetermined by your genes
Your intelligence is entirely defined by your genes. People aren't magically given "extra intelligence" by the some magic blue fairy, their intelligence and their IQ potential is very strictly defined by their genes.

I'm pretty sure genetics make us who we are.

civic nationalism will likely remove white people through fertility.

ethnonationalism sounds too racist though (well that's a plus for Sup Forums, though)

Because of reality. The reality is most minorities vote democrat, because they come from 3rd world peasant shitholes. Import more of them, eventually republicanism is gone = death of America. You cuckservatives are so afraid of being called racist, that you won't fight the practical battle. You seem to think that these people come here because they like America and our values. The reality is, they come for the money, nothing else. Thus a more radical action is needed.

This is a 20th-century idea which is completely antithetical to the traditional beliefs of the West going all the way back to the ancient Greeks. The overwhelming majority of great thinkers in both Western and Eastern civilization have believed in the soul.

When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism. The Nazi tries to breed a better man, the Communist, to make one by changing the environment. The outcome in both cases has always been mass barbarity and extermination.

Nations have risen and fallen again and again; Aristocracies have risen and fallen; most great men have come from humble origins. The genetic theory of the mind is completely antithetical to all that we observe in history.

>When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism.
define "the soul"

Wish I could discuss properly, but I'm phoneposting at work. You're missing my point a bit. Read that link. French national culture crosses multiple genetic groupings. Belgian/Dutch cultures are distinct despite *relative* genetic similarities. Yes there is a strong correlation between race and culture. My argument is that while they correlate they are not inseparable, and that culture determines a person's behavior more than race, which is why I think cultural nationalism is a reasonable position to take.

Civic nationalism is alright, but illegals need to be deported, borders need to be closed, welfare needs to end, and white % of the population needs to be boosted to at least 80%. to accomplish the boost I would give tax breaks to rural areas who have more than 2 kids, and if possible, also institute a 1 child policy in cities to target non whites who have too much. this plan is perfect and actually possible, only retards who want race war would disagree.

The immortal, spiritual substance out of which is comprised the individual self which is conscious of itself and makes decisions.

wrong

>Alfred Rosenberg—one of the principal architects of Nazi ideological creed—argued for a new "religion of the blood", based on the supposed innate promptings of the Nordic soul to defend its "noble" character against racial and cultural degeneration.

> In his work Racial Characteristics of the Jewish People, he defined the racial soul of the Near Eastern race as emphasizing a "commercial spirit" (Handelgeist), and described them as "artful traders" - a term that Gunther ascribed as being used by Jewish racial theorist Samuel Weissenberg to describe contemporary Armenians, Greeks, and Jews.[39] Günther added to that description of the Near Eastern type as being composed primarily of commercially spirited and artful traders, by claiming that the type held strong psychological manipulation skills that aided them in trade.[39] He claimed that the Near Eastern race had been "bred not so much for the conquest and exploitation of nature as it was for the conquest and exploitation of people".[39]

>The overwhelming majority of great thinkers in both Western and Eastern civilization have believed in the soul.

so do people who believe in genetics and race

>When you take the soul away, you are left with two options: Naziism or Communism

proven incorrect as showen earlier

> The outcome in both cases has always been mass barbarity and extermination.

your knowledge of history is shameful if you think peoples havent been exterminated before

>but I don't quite understand why.
Let's say hypothetically, 100 million Japanese women showed up on the border.
Every last one of them want to immigrate legally, go through whatever vetting you'd support, would assimilate, would have jobs, would not commit crimes and would not accept government handouts.

Would you civcuck nationalists allow them in?

Of course you would.

Because you don't care about the existence or survival of the White race.

That's why we shit on you and hate you.

>Nazi racial theorist Hans F. K. Günther identified the European race as having five subtype races: Nordic, Mediterranean, Dinaric, Alpine, and East Baltic.[35] Günther applied a Nordicist conception that Nordics were the highest in the racial hierarchy amongst these five European subtype races.[35] In his book Rassenkunde des deutschen Volkes (1922) ("Racial Science of the German People"), Günther recognized Germans as being composed of all five European subtypes, but emphasized the strong Nordic heritage amongst Germans.[36] Günther believed Slavic people to be of "Eastern race", one that was separate from Germans and Nordics, and warned about mixing "German blood" with Slavic one.[37] He defined each racial subtype according to general physical appearance and their psychological qualities including their "racial soul" - referring to their emotional traits and religious beliefs, and provided detailed information on their hair, eye, and skin colours, facial structure.[36]

Rosenberg spoke of "the blood-bound national character." His concept of a "race-soul" has nothing whatever to do with the real and traditional soul. It is simply materialism couched in a new terminology. All Jews according to him were prone to "think talmudically."

The twentieth century is a unique phenomenon in history in its democidal barbarity and destruction--that is, systematic annihilation by virtue of government policy. Nothing else compares to it. Simple wars are not the same thing.

>100 million
We don't have the infrastructure to support such an immigration, though, so no one would except that many. But allowing a decent amount wouldn't be too bad.

>100 million waifus

Sign me up

>His concept of a "race-soul" has nothing whatever to do with the real and traditional soul.
how so? their definition matches yours
>The immortal, spiritual substance out of which is comprised the individual self which is conscious of itself and makes decisions.

The trouble with you racial extremists is that anything less than 100% is good enough for you. We who are not of your kind say that we should be happy with a state made of (say) 95% of the indigenous population, which could probably be achieved by means of stopping immigration and instituting a scheme of voluntary repatriation. No, no, you say: that would "corrupt the blood": every single last one must go. Naziism is the only way forward. And then you wonder why we never get anywhere. The population at large will never accept such a thing, because they are not barbarians. Everybody in Britain now knows at least one non-white person and they understand by personal contact with those people that they are just as human as they are; sometimes people of upstanding character and intellect, patriots, and far more worthy to be had than any degenerate white Communists who would open the borders and destroy this country for good.

I disagree. Ethnonationalism being racist isn't inherently a plus for Sup Forums. There are some who quite clearly don't like the concept.

Those who are claiming that there are shills that attempt to poison Sup Forums with Nazi stuff, racism, are right. There are those who are trying to poison the meme pool with bad memes. Unfortunately for these shills, Sup Forums just processes the poison and may even derive positive memetic traits out of it.

Look at the two anons hammering out the finer points of a complex philosophical and ideological points of Nazi-ism and its relation with the genetic mind/immortal soul, complete with quotations, in the time it takes for me to write this single post. The rate of memetic processing here is insane.

The damage civic nationalism undergoes here tells me enough that it isn't going to stand up in the long run. Ethnonationalism also undergoes damage here. There won't even be a "compromise" between the two, they'll eat each other and turn into a whole new kind of monster, with the fittest meme on top. That's all I know.

Yea, when you wipe out the males of another tribe and all their women jump off a cliff it actually is pretty similar, more effective than we have been