So, does anyone actually think that communism could work...

So, does anyone actually think that communism could work? Like what about NEETs sapping off the system that just can't be fucked getting a job?

Other urls found in this thread:

hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/north-korea
youtube.com/watch?v=RN0-QHZnvKk
youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Only on a small scale, as in small village with no central economic or government infrastructure aside from an elder.

This is what I think too. In a small group of like 20 people.

Not really, no.

It's end goal is that of a classless society which I believe to be a total fantasy.

Nope, communism needs to fuck off.

We could have comfy socalism...

but!

When everyone is forced to do a job they don't want to do so the government can take their money... they tend to turn on NEETs and put them in work camps ~__~

it doesn't work in a small village either, the principles of communism are the erosion of hierarchy, small villages thrive off of hierarchy. Stop repeating this garbage without thinking about it.

Interesting you bring up forced labor camps. I was just reading about how bad forced labor is over in North Korea.

hrw.org/world-report/2017/country-chapters/north-korea

Communism is like living in a big open air jail.

Scandinavian Socialism is pretty bad, but not if you're a Government dependent.

It might, now more than ever, provided its proponent actually update their texts to fit with the new material conditions, technological standards and communication/information culture

I know Communism doesn't work, we've all seen the results of it, it just leads to starvation and dictatorships.

Also, Canada isn't socialist yet is it? I've seen that meme floating about that Canada is "Socialist".

> There are only 5 communist countries out there
> none of them are good
What do you think?

We brag in our schools about being Socialist sometimes to differentiate ourselves from Americans. In fact, I cannot recall a time that concept was introduced without using USA as a counter-example. I don't know if there is such a thing as a "socialist government", maybe just a government with socialist programs. Would this make Rome socialist for having roads?

Communism can work, capitalism will eventually give way to some form of socialism due to automation, then progression to post-scarcity which will basically be communism.

It will happen naturally, the rabid commies and anarchists are trying to force it which has always lead to disaster.

The failures of past Communist states (I would call them "shortcomings" rather than "failures" since many of those countries are now *worse* off after socialism) were due to a non-Marxist reading of history. Socialism was expected to grow out of degenerated capitalist states, not agrarian revolutions. The USSR, China, etc still made the best of this situation but these conditions were never ripe for a transition into socialism and communism as Marx described.

I think the first world is finally due for its turn. Technological realities are eroding away at the facade of capitalism and exposing the inherent absurdity that lurks beneath. We've already entered a post scarcity age for information, and the infrastructure that holds together the web (FOSS) is fundamentally communist in nature. When this consciousness makes the jump into the physical world through atomization, expect supposedly ironclad societal attitudes about enterprise and hard work to collapse mighty quick.

Canada always was regarded as a country of dumb cucks.

Rome was what cuck leftist faggots would identify as fascist. And fascists have identified themselves with the identity, aesthetics and virtues of Romans since it's inception, so let's just call it what it is at this point and admit fascism rocks.

This, it's gonna happen.

it will work when we have unlimited supply of (respectively):
- food
- energy

in other cases no.

if your goal is to have millions of people die then yes.

Communists are pretty awesome.
>insert seed potatoes
>bury in garden
>potatoes grow like hell
>ribcage protects the potatoes from moles and other pests

Socialism will always fail where there is the burden of the 3rd world to uplift and the general lazy shits that hold us all down from progressing. It will never happen without the deaths of the bottom 70% of society. Don't get your hopes up.

Even small villages have a very basic primitive form of hierarchy. Women are not viewed as equal, the Chieftains get the best of everything, the best hunters are exonerated.

What marx called high level communism would work in a post scarcity community, low level communism (what people nowadays call socialism) with labour vouchers and worker owned means of production would probably be viable in first world countries

They can survive but not prosper. Stagnating like animals repeating the same thing over and over because there's no reason to innovate. There's no reward for it and there's probable punishment.

Communism is the future of humanity. Yes, millions or billions will die. That shouldn't be a surprise to anyone at this point,

Negatory

are you guys for real

Excellent post.

It doesn't work, it is a system created to destroy humanity.

Spent some of this afternon in a museum of political persecution in Tomsk. It was truly fucked up and has never worked. There were quotas for interrogation, execution and internment. All trace of tradition, culture, religion was destroyed. It has failed every single time. Only thing that resembled Socialism and didn't collapse in on itself was National Socialism.

did they ever attack the muslims during the USSR?

Absolutely.

NEETs are the the master-race.

...

The problem with your perception is that we have not had "Capitalism" for at least the last 100 years. What we suffer under is "cronyism". Hence the 48% of the 1%.

Feel free to raise objections where you see them.

Communism could only work in a post-scarcity economy where everything is automated.

> tfw not born in full automation era
> tfw no qt robot gf to cuddle with
> tfw no free monies generated by machines to spend on anything
Fucking hell, we were born 500 years before the ultimate utopia. Robots would make sure we're safe, the highest rank people would work on designing robots, programming and controlling AI, while normies would just shill and work with art/music.

Yes, that is perhaps the only thing that can happen, but it does work for survival in the beginning, once an infrastructure is developed will a communal lifestyle need to be dismantled in favor of an economic and bartering system.

Socialist basically means "free shit", stuff like "universal basic income".

So like, if you're a druggie in a Scandinavian country and have to quit your job so you can go to rehab or shoot more drugs... they start cutting you a monthly paycheck.

It's pretty easy to get a free house, or at least a free apartment, and all University is free.

From a international point of view, it seems like Canada tries to be just a little more socialist than the US to make themselves feel better about being the gayest country in our latitude.

In reality Canada has junkies dying in alleyways and isn't much better than Russia except they pretend really hard to be.

If you're a resident of somewhere like Norway, you just get a free house / apartment.

>500 years
Oh man, you're in for a real surprise. It'll happening in our lifetimes, however most of us will be wiped out by the tribulation period beforehand.

They attacked all religions. Don't try come up with some stupid comeback like

>wtf I love Communism now

You fucking leaf. I see what you are trying to do.

Even if """cronyism""" were different from capitalism (it's not), there's nothing to suggest a return to your ideal libertarian vision (Jeffersonian farming villages or some shit?) looming on the horizon. Capitalism is an inescapable stage of societal development, but it eventually becomes dead weight in the same way feudalism did.

The worship of the state / dictators was the state religion

Being the edge lord Atheist they where, claimed that it was not a religion and Atheism is just the lack of a religion and not a religion..

NOW DO EVERYTHING IN THIS BOOK I WROTE AND GIVE FLOWERS TO MY STATUES!!!

>Socialist basically means "free shit", stuff like "universal basic income".
No.
UBI is specifically a techno-liberal stopgap meant to preserve capitalism long after it ceases to be useful.

>in our lifetimes
nah, it will take a while.

Its telling when all the russians in this thread are telling OP to go fuck himself

Bo one has mentioned how communism also seeks to destroy the nuclear family and is accepting of social liberalism

No ome on pol has read shit about anything beyond wikipedia, but hey, the (((symbols))) of communism are cool, unlike beleivers in communism, and are overly romantacized thanks to propaganda they have eaten up

It was a serious question, I was wondering if communism was designed to extinguish christianity. I cannot ever accept communism because I can never accept being exterminated.

No, that was my impression too after a while. It's very disappointing to realize most of Canadian "nationalism" is just not being American. It's a shame because some of their schooling is very good.

I don't know, it kind of looks like bait, you even have a couple of faggots quoting your post as "excellent" when it's pretty much generalities and without substance. The web isn't communist, lay off the lattes.

Why did you ban Jehovah Witness again?

>UBI is specifically a techno-liberal stopgap meant to preserve capitalism long after it ceases to be useful.

Fucking commie shill

UBI is the rebranding of a welfare check to make communism sound KeWL!

may as well be a anarcho primitivist tribal band at that point

>muh mashup of words to make me sound like a sophisticated hipster. I read about them on the internet and wikipedia, yhey have flags you know

The Russian in this thread would have to be pretty old to have any meaningful memory of the CCCP. He's probably too young to remember the chaos of pre-Putin Russian Federation.

Slavic rightwinger kids often use their nationality as a trump card but it'd be like me telling you having a nation of warring fuedal lords is bullshit just because I'm posting under a Japanese flag.

All of this ignores the fact that the communism of tomorrow won't take too many cues from the communism of yesterday. Material realities are completely different that it'd be counterproductive.

FOSS is communist. From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.

UBI is basically life support for late stage capitalism, most socialists reject UBI.

Communism is practically already here in some minor forms.

There are also people trying to undo it at the FCC.

This place only exists thanks to borderline communistic information sharing online, which is about to end.

i beat you can't even name the different strains of fascism top pleb

It's a religion, of course it can't work. It isn't based on reality.

>wealth is stored value
>for money to be worth anything, it must be given in exchange for value with the tacit understanding that the money can later be exchanged for value again

Communism proposes that you can redistribute wealth, by taking it from people who produce value and giving it to people that don't produce value, making the money worthless as the pool of value created shrinks over time, while the pool of money representing that value increases. Communists BELIEVE that their GOD, the government, can create value from nothing and give it to people who don't produce value.

This is why Communism has never worked and will always collapse. Communists don't understand even the basic of basics, that money needs to represent value, which makes redistribution of wealth through redistribution of money impossible.

A good example of wealth is buying properties or gold, which isn't money but these things have value. As the money devalues due to socialist retardation, the value of properties and gold remain relatively stable, creating the appearance that these things become worth more money over time.

Money can't be wealth under Communism, because it proposes that money doesn't have to represent value.

UBI recognizes that when there aren't any more jobs, """the economy""" will stall because people won't be able to buy shit. Permanent consumption-driven growth is the aim of capitalism. UBI is nothing more than a Krugmanesque lukewarm stimulus measure. Nevermind the fact that many libertarians want it to supersede all forms of welfare in favor of one lump sum. Now a health or childcare service that normally wouldn't have been subjected to market conditions will have to be purchased just like milk at the market. It's neoliberal to its core.

You don't have to be very old to remember Gorbachev and Yeltsin, and even if you were born after, you can CLEARLY see the remnant of their BULL SHIT.

Look at the USA, look at Russia, fuck, look at any country that has been under British / Capitalist rule and compare it to a former USSR ally / Communist rule.

One is high living standards, the other is like playing a post apocalyptic game IRL.

Russia has gotten a lot better since I was a kid, but it's still shit compared to the US / Australia etc...

>Its a religion
I never understood why people call it a religion?

Communism is literally non-compatible with post scarcity. Post scarcity implies you may not work but everyone must work under communism and unemployed are forcibly eliminated. Only capitalism or feudalism can harness post scarcity aka "machines work i consume". Communism will replace you with machines for both applications.
youtube.com/watch?v=RN0-QHZnvKk

because it competes for the same territory as religion

Their God, the government, creates something from nothing which somehow endlessly creates wealth. You should really read the post you're replying to.

In theory, everyone will be forced to work "according to their ability."

But, like, I believe the end goal to be a total fantasy, especially the part where communism's end goal is supposedly to "abolish the state." In other words, the communist regime will dismantle itself "when it's ready" to give up power. Haha.

What territory?
I still don't understand

ITT spoiled Westerners who have no idea how living under communism was like.

Sad!

Yes, we are very spoiled, and hopefully we never have to find out what it's like.

Even small hippie communes fail so no. Communism is a stupid and failed ideology.

If the two were totally unrelated, they wouldn't have a need to kill each other. I think that's the most basic summary I can muster.

Energy cannot be created or destroyed, this is a law of physics. The only entity that could create something from nothing would be a divine being. Communists believe government can create money that represents value, without anyone providing that value. Communists believe government can create something from nothing, hence it is a religion.

Because it requires suspension of rationality in favor of faith/irrationality

>labor theory of value

Communism did work. See: Millions and millions of dead people.

Keep it that way then.

Sure, former commie countries are not so shitty anymore, and I would even dare say it's pretty good for opportunities, but I remember that even in the 90s they were smelly and shitty, I was ashamed of having a mother from such a shithole. And that's 'nothing'.

>the chaos of pre-Putin Russian Federation.
Putin's propaganda.

It would be written and re-written ten times in teh row. Fun fact: all rulers of the Russia in last 100 years ended as traitors or worthless slobs. Putin is no exception. He only shiny when he is alive. After his death his ruling would be condemned and his cronies executed.

I'm no fan of Putin. I was just using him as a milestone because the 90s were a wild time in Ryssä.

>NEETs sapping off the system that just can't be fucked getting a job

Would be sent to prison or labor camps under 'real communism'.

Remind them one of their slogans is to everyone according to need and FROM everyone according to ability.

There is no such thing as post scarcity. There is a finite amount of matter and energy in our universe. Post scarcity implies that there is an infinite amount and that it will always be infinitely accessible. This will never be the case.

Don't drink the Roddenberry koolaid.

90s were wild time lie will fall after dismantling Putin's cult of personality. Putin's times were bad would be new meta.

I see that most kids that want communism and scream "take the power of the Labour back" don't even work or have any skill set that would benefit the people. My friends and I are miners, concert guys, builders, heavy machine operators and contractors, we would be the ones marching all those stupid collage kids off to mass graves that we made and kill them because they are useless. Makes me laugh the kids that scream the most for communism would be the first to be killed.

There is no unemployment under communism....unlike capitalism

What you are saying is true, however it also implies that capitalism cannot last either since it requires constant growth and resources.

If it was so bad why does the majority of Russians want to go back to it?

I love Russians, this is why you guys have some of the best authors out there, you really don't let hope keep you down.

>there can be no unemployment if jobs don't exist.jpg

Also person doesn't have needs under communism... unlike capitalism.

Everyone gets a job with communism

>inescapable stage of societal development, b

>historical determinism.

Both you and Marx are wrong in that regard.

Also, even with modern tech there are still plenty of shitty jobs that need to be done. Who does them? How do you make sure they get done?

Also, where is the incentive for people do better themselves or be productive? Under Communism there isn't any. The planet would devolve into Idiocracy.

youtube.com/watch?v=BBvIweCIgwk

I guess chain gangs and penal colonies also have a 100% employment rate too.

more choice, consumerism and materialism= more unhappiness. For reference see the rates of anti-depressant use in the USA

Communism is a crime against humanity.

Capitalism will strive under those conditions through competition.

There will be technological competition (who can extract resources at the lowest cost/highest magnitude through technological advances) which will spur science and industry.

There will also be martial competition (who can defend their resources and the methods to extract and utilize them most effectively/efficiently)

Even financial competition (who makes the best decisions on loaning money to entrepreneurs and which entrepreneurs will.be most successful).

What you say applies even today...

don't bother, these people don't know about these jobs because they never do them, or never see anyone doing them.

Russians want to sit on two chairs: enjoy capitalist fruits doing communistic labor efforts. Ask Russian do they want their apartments and dollars hidden under mattress taken from them and you get truthful answer about their perception of communism.

I mean I know communism works, just go to prison. We're all equally free, all get the same food, we're all treated equally, prisoners make the food, clean.

Define 'need'.

Trouble is, nobody ever does.

Does heroin count? Or healthcare for somebody who could never be bothered to exercise or eat healthy food?

There is also ZERO decent reason why highly capable people should be enslaved just because. Especially to support the lazy and the stupid. FUCK THAT.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marinaleda

Marinaleda, communism working

чё пиздишь, тoлькo cтapичьё и хoчeт oбpaтнo в coвoчeк.

nostalgia, loss of national pride and identity, general geopolitical instability caused by (((various))) entities - see banks etc. People long for the relative stability that the communists used to offer - stability that came at the price of freedom. Sure, everybody had a job and a state imposed meaning, but speaking your mind would have resulted into imprisonment, work-force slavery or worse.

People truly don't understand what communism did to the nations that it has imposed upon. Hearing westerners speak about it is especially moronic - I can't fucking wait for you to experience something like it. Standing in endless queues at 4-5 in the morning for bread or meat, rationing electricity and gas, being able to drive your car only on specific days (no longer than 3/week), having to turn on your neighbors if you heard them listening to a "liberal neocapitalistic broadcasting station", living under a constant fear of losing everything if you said something wrong against the regime etc.

Capitalists subsidize that however through taxes. Prison is not a closed system, it requires regular financial injections of tax dollars to keep it alive.

This is either directly in state run prisons, or indirectly through contractors who are rewarded sums of money from the state.

What we need is to stop the progress of "Progressivism" and push the Overton window back in the direction of liberty. Our priorities need to be "rights of the Individual under Natural Law" then push Leviathan back into it's cage and limit gummint to it's Constitutional goal.

>Permanent consumption-driven growth is the aim of capitalism

No, it is not. One variant of capitalism may be. Many economists propose a 'steady state' version in line with population growth outside of technological innovation.

What you are referring to is a problem with globalization and mass production, not capitalism per se.

Take some economics classes.