What are your thoughts on the government allowing citizens to carry out their peaceful suicide with the assistance of a physician or professional?
I believe in states like Oregon it is legal, but haven't looked into the negative outcomes of it in the state.
Should it be allowed, or not?
>be "doctor"
>300+ confirmed kills
Would you want this murderer living next door to you?
>murderer
To some he would be a deliverer.
>government allowing citizens
Should not be government concern.
I really want this.
These threads always devolve to having to explain to leftists why murder is wrong like they are children.
>muh left vs right
>it's bad to help people do what they want if I don't approve of that
What's next? You will tell me about God and sin? Or maybe about government of pedophilic narcissistic sochipathic demigods that upholds morals among imperfect sinful commoners?
If you can't do it yourself then it's not suicide.
>this guy
plenty of bridges, nothing stopping you from jumping off, nothing stopping us from pissing on your corpse and erasing you from the family tree- not a government concern
Why? Do you have a debilitating illness with no treatment?
This. Everyone has a right to their own life, and a healthy medical system should provide the means to assist by a medical professional.
He has the debilitating illness of being unable to kill himself and needing somebody to do it for him.
Bust most assisted suicide cases involve a patient willingly drinking a solution that kills them, the professional may supply and inform the patient about the solution, not force it down their throat.
The patient should mix it himself. The doctor in that case is nothing but a hired assassin.
>people jumping off bridges
>not a government concern
Just because you lack any and all empathy for your fellow man doesn't mean the government shouldn't be obligated to look out for its society.
>hired assassin
The patient has all the choice in the matter. If they decide they don't want to drink the solution, he or she calls it off and goes back to living. An assassin doesn't ask you if you would like to did, they just straight up kill you without your input.
I'm not suicidal, but i have had the rare nightmare where I (from circumstance) have the desire to, but can't kill myself. I'm not sure if I even have nightmares otherwise.
Being in a situation where death is preferable, but unavailable, is possibly the most terrifying thing I can imagine. I want to get an exit bag so I don't have to blow my brains out some day.
>tfw the happening happens, and you rage quit.
If the patient has the choice then he doesn't need a doctor to do it. The doctor meanwhile is no doctor if he first of all does no harm. We're not talking about a situation where a doctor has to make a hard decision. We're talking about when the individual (not "patient") has to make a hard decision.
My best friend made a hard decision once. I think it was the wrong one, but he researched it, put the plan together, and made damn sure he didn't get it wrong.
What did you just say about me you little bitch?
just because you're interconnected with everyone's suffering on the planet, and know how they feel doesn't mean that the government has to put programs into place to appease your sensibilities. You are imagining some old man, devoid of all reason drinking some poison and passing on silently. In reality, it can be used, and has been used on younger people who simply "can't go on". It's demoralizing to the whole of society, and it's shameful, no matter what sort of pain you're in.
>living next door to a doctor
Knowing I'd basically be part of the establishment, yes. Doctors are rich as fuck so it would be cool to be neighbors with one
Except you can, if you stop eating and they let you that is assisted suicide
>wahh wahhh assisted suicide is bad
You're a child
Ummm yeah. That's illegal
Government should be tasked with euthaniszing those with mental problems. I'm sorry you have no empathy.
One of my grandfathers decided he was about done with his living hell and pulled off a stunt that couldn't be considered doctor-assisted suicide no matter how you play it or how decrepit he was. Of course he also suffered hell in WWII, so he wasn't so much of a loser he couldn't find a way.
He is in fact buried in a Catholic grave per his insistence that he would never commit suicide.
Surely if youre going to kill yourself the fact that it is illegal should be the last of your worries.
Keep it illegal to make sure the non-committal emotional types have a reason to sort their shit out.
Same. I remember having a nightmere where I was in the holocaust, and i kept trying to run into the gas chamber but they tackled me and said "no no no!!! you are for experiemnts!". And they brought the needle that injected blue eyed chemicals into my eyes and it was scarier than death.
>if you stop eating and they let you that is assisted suicide
There you go moving the goalposts to where now you need big daddy Jew government to issue you a Jew doctor to make sure to keep you alive.
I thought this was about suicide, not trying to keep somebody alive against all costs.
Dude you're imagining some nazi death camp shit. In reality assisted suicide is just basic Germanic tradition of encouraging the weak to commit suicide
Why do you think the government should have the right to keep you alive at all costs?
The government is not created by God and therefore has no rights.
>shotgun
>99%
What
You're an idiot, and you've never worked in a hospital. It has already happened.
Look into it. There are some crazy stories out there if you're in to trying to kill yourself and not fucking it up.
But what if the patient is very old and immobile and needs a doctor to supply a barbiturate solution to end their suffering? The patient wants to go peacefully and only a doctor can supply such a death.
Some people will fuck it up in a way you couldn't imagine.
It's very rare to see any statistic go to exactly 100% anyway.
not for my taxpayer fucking money tho
Yet you believe the government has the right to keep people alive.
Tell me exactly what happened.
That's the family's decision. Why does the family need a hired hand to kill granny?
Let them jump if they want to. The only thing we should force them to do is to pay for the cleanup.
Even if you view suicide as a tragedy, you still must respect other people choices as long as they do not interfere with you.
>government shouldn't be obligated to look out for its society
I smell a commie.
In the case of cancer, AIDS, vegetable status or any sort of "welp you're kind of fucked in the years to come" sort of scenario then absolutely. If someone doesn't want to be here anymore and the family will be burdened with millions of dollars of life support/health care costs then if they want to go they should have assistance in it as long as the doctor is fine with it.
I don't even understand the logic behind barring it aside from the doctor not wanting to do it which should be their choice totally. As long as everyone is in agreement then it should be legally sound.
>Yet you believe the government has the right to keep people alive.
I never said that.
This entire thread is about the morality of conscripting the government to kill you if you're serious about suicide.
It should be allowed.
Because this is completely consent, people that has no life, cannot contribute a thing, live a life of pain and other shit can end their life with their will and without feeling pain
If you think this shouldn't be allowed, then you impede on their human rights. If you are a leftist and think this shouldn't be allowed, you are also not thinking like a true leftist.
Of course i would, would you prefers a murdering rapist next to your house when you have a family or a man who does his job for the people?
Or just the government letting you die
Without out a third party to make sure the deed is done, you can never safely attempt suicide. You are more likely to fail and become a cripple from whatever you try yourself. If it is a voluntary exchange, then theres no problem if a doctor helps someone pass on. The problem with people these days is that most of them dont even want to be here, so they make life hell for the rest of us. Give them sweet release and you'll be left with people actually wanting to live, not some soulless husks.
It's allowed in Switzerland. We got an organization called EXIT which provides suicide for hard cases as far as I know. I think it's a good idea.
The government doesn't let you die. You keep referring to the government as if it has some magical power of arbitration.
>Pro Death Penalty
>Pro Assisted Suicide
>Pro Abortion
I'm pro death, I guess
The thread is more about the government allowing consenting individuals to conduct business where in one party gets paid and the other party gets a peaceful and certain death. Most people have a moral aversion to this so they have the state prevent it through laws.
Why such an elaborate plan? You all have guns. Tell your m8 you want it done and tell him to blow your fucking head off until it's over if you can't do it yourself.
>weed not legalized
>assisted suicide is
say what now?
Weed is legalized in some states though. Same as assisted suicide.
Yeah, same way people object to the organ trade, like paying for circumcision. Payment brings immorality, just like government, because it is a dissociating proxy for ulterior gains.
>The problem with people these days is that most of them don't even want to be here, so they make life hell for the rest of us
Fuck. It explains so much about libtards.
Yes. Just like abortion. The less weak people we have, the better.
Quality over quantity, remember.
Eugenics are one of the bridges one must cross to reach a superior society.
>living
>100 agony
Kek
I consider myself right/far-right on the political spectrum and believe assisted suicide is a sound government policy for terminally sick people that are mentally stable (e.g. no late-stage alzheimer). Equating it to murder is the childish thing to do.
Sure, who cares? It's not hurting anyone else
It doesn't violate the NAP so it is fine.
I don't even view it in that context. More in the State trying to dictitate to me and my family that we have no choice in having the health care system charge us millions of dollars of costs because Cletus and Nancy in the deep south don't agree religiously with us offing a family member that doesn't want to be here anymore and we've all accepted they'll be dead within a year.
Why does the government need to intervene other than to allow the person or his family do it? Is the government just trying to get in on the hired assassin trade?
>killing someone
>not aggression
lol k
Why? Because many types of suicide are harmful, economically and psychologically for society. Think of jumping in front of the train, massive delay, people can't get to work, witnesses are traumatized for life etc.
And why another person can't do it? Because then it is considered murder, there is no such thing as a mental health check, an ethics organization and safety policies for it to either ensure it's 100% safe and succesful, as well as 100% the will of the person.
It is granny's decision. The family may or may not be accepting of her wishes and will decide for her. But if the granny is incapable of recruiting help to carry our her suicide, then oh well. Too bad.
In a mental ward, even before it was legal, we had one patient who kept relapsing. She was
Shoot me up with some heroin and let 'er rip, Mr. Doctor, please.
If the doctor does it then that's another person. Let the family or whoever else fits your legal definition of not being another person do it.
I already have power of attorney and other things over my family. I might be making the decision for granny if she's no longer capable of it. I don't look forward to it, but that was granny's premeditation, and I gave willing and informed consent. I just hope I act as her proxy according to what she would have wanted, but it's also going to be on my hands either way.
Well then we need to pass laws that if someone keeps relapsing the hospital can euthansize them
Did you just equate an assassin with a "Doctor"? Somethings not right here. Oh yeah, murder is wrong, even if the person wants to die
I don't know if you understand the idea of suffering with dignity. Not just for yourself, but for the others around you who still need hope to go on.
Can you explain why you're really against letting a doctor do it and rather have a dying granny get offed by her own son?
Yes, I did. I don't think most of them keep their Oath.
If there's one good thing you can say about the Kohanim, it's that they did it for free, not for money.
If you don't want to do it yourself then hire a mafia hand or a nigger or a gypsy or whatever. Since when is it being a "doctor" to be hired to do the dirty deed?
Hire a Russian.
So you'd again rather have a dying granny get offed by a deepweb assassin than a doctor? lmao
Are you talking about your country or mine?
Executioner used to be a profession. I think it still is.
The job of a doctor on the other hand is something quite the opposite.
Why make the doctor a murderer, and have that on his conscience?
Easy to say from Canada with actual socialized medicine.
Here in the US every day of that "suffering with dignity" means $$$$$ out the ass. If a loved one is guaranteed death in a year or so and wants to go then that's a lot of burden off the family.
I realize it's ass backward but that's how this country works.
Just do it yourself pussy
Anyone should be allowed to die at any time for any reason they choose.
Because current methods of euthanization is done by using an injection, which are obviously banned for anything else besides this 'treatment' and only used by doctors. Why let the average Joe walk around with killer needles, there already are nutjobs in the world walking around with aids infected needles.
underrated
How can you hire a mafia or whatever when you can't even communicate?
Mine. But i think it should be everywhere. The U.N is a big pro-euthanasia organization so i hope they enforce it everywhere
everyone should have the right to choose when they wish to die.
life is suffering.
You can't do that, you pussy.
it's a very simple argument: What is more ethically justifiable? Murder or ceaseless torture?
No really this is why western society is so spoiled. If there wasn't a road paved for you, you wouldn't think you might have to exert yourself to build one. Even before, our forefathers who suffered all sorts of diseases without "answers" carried on. Is it no good enough for you, really? We have social healthcare and we still have euthanasia anyway, how much easier should suffering be??
Yeah, it should be strictly a private exchange for euthanasia.
It even feels like leftism huh?
Injections are widely known to be inhumane and unnecessary. I sure as fuck wouldn't want to go that way and I would rather stick a gun up against my own granny's head and blow her brains out to make sure it was done humanely than risk cruel and unusual.
>How can you hire a mafia or whatever when you can't even communicate?
There's a government worker that helps me sign up for health care, that's how.
Okay, maybe you're baiting, or you're a leftist who wondered onto this site for giggles.
>Seppuku
>51.5% lethality
48.5% confirmed pussies.
I'm for it on the condition that terminal illness is involved (There is no cure, and alternative medicine does not work either, even controversial ones). Or for Alzheimer/Dementia/(Any other mental illness that pretty much erases you as a person and turns you into a walking ball of nothing that cannot remember who you are at all).
The terminal illness must be creating such severe pain that not even cannabis is of use. And as for the other two, they need to be reviewed by at least 20 doctors, and needs to be approved by the current Secretary of Health and Human Services, the family, and the persons will (witnessed by whatever amount USA deems necessary to render a will valid).
As for why I mention such mental illnesses, living with that must be a fucking ride from hell. Imagine having the mentality of a 3 year old who forget's everything you witnessed the past 5 seconds. On repeat. Until you die.
You are essentially a walking vegetable and your body is pretty much on autopilot. You barely remember your first 6 years in life. Imagine saying hello to your caretaker and/or family, and then forgetting them in 5 seconds or less.
I've worked with such old people. They are extremely vulnerable, easy to manipulate or abuse (And essentially can never say no). If assisted suicide was legal in my country I would not hesitate to write down my approval in my will if I ever got Alzheimer or dementia or some other crap. I would not want to be a walking vegetable.
Oh and you need to have had the mental illness for at least 10 years. Just to make sure it's not something else that can be treated or cured so you can actually control yourself and know who you are.
Suicide is a personal right and should only be carried out personally.
I find that hard to believe but okay everybody their own preferences.
One is easily fixed with pain meds and andideppressants, the other is technically kinda sorta MURDER
Say that when you've got a 850,000 dollar hospital bill that the rest of the family runs away from. You'd be amazed at how your values change when you're the one who has to declare bankruptcy and your credit is ruined for around 10 years. Try it. I dare you and keep those faux morals up.
What's hard to believe? That I have a gun and can blow my own brains out at no added cost or that I would do it for my granny if that's what she wanted me to do and I were willing to pull the trigger for her?
I don't see what's so hard to understand. I'm not saying I want to do it. I'm saying that's the standard of morality involved with deciding whether or not one person takes another person's life.
>One is easily fixed with pain meds and andideppressants
you have no concept of what you're talking about
Meant to quote but whatever.
I know you're afraid to attempt morals at all, at the slight chance you could disappoint yourself, but it sounds like there's a lot of other problems before even assisted suicide becomes a question from what you're saying.
They violate the NAP
Our ancestors never had to deal with shitty hospitals and stuff like that,
>There's a government worker that helps me sign up for health care, that's how.
You think he would hire a mafia for you? Are you dumb