American conservatives will unmemeingly defend this

American conservatives will unmemeingly defend this

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cnbc.com/2016/10/26/obamacare-deductibles-are-on-the-rise-for-2017-along-with-monthly-premiums.html
time.com/money/4765443/obamacare-bankruptcy-decline/
archive.is/4GfIw
lmgtfy.com/?q=good news about Obamacare
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

it's the regulations.

remove all regulations, and medicine will be cheap as water.

yes, there are other ways to rate and rank doctors, you idiot.

its actually the fact that all hospital bills are negotiable so they jack the prices up to give insurance companies something to jew them over for and still turn a profit

No it isn't you fucking piece of shit. Hospitals used to be banned from doing this shit. Those regulations were REMOVED. NOW we have this fucking bullshit. At one time Hospitals were not allowed to be for-profit.

Capitalists literally know nothing about anything. And arrogance isn't a suitable replacement for reality. Get fucked shill.

>If we socialize medicine, our country full of illegals and dumb niggers who contribute nothing will make our medicine cheap af! Nevermind your tax hike lol

socialists need to have bullets put through their skulls

lmao the jews are really brilliant when it comes to manipulating poor whites.

>HYUK HYUK IT'S DA REGYOOLASHUNS FAULT DIS TYLENOL IS $500

big pharma was a mistake

strawman

no we won't

...

Oh well fuck it. I'm an accelerationist. Do what you want. Get fucking crazy. Let people die on the street. The sooner to be rid of you neanderthals forever.

This. Hospitals never deal directly with consumers, so they have nothing approaching consumer pricing. Hospitals literally cannot tell what shit costs. It'd the opposite of being run like a business, and making it law for people to have and use insurance for everything only makes it worse.

It's libtards that should be explaining this...the date clearly shows this is the result of the Democratic party's work in Obamacare.

This. We warned you liberals fucks that increased bureaucracy was only going to increase costs. But you just couldn't help yourselves.

So why don't we replace all current regulations and laws with one: single payer

I work for a dentist and have worked for other medical professionals, I can confirm we are ripping you off constantly. If anyone has had to pay for a crown just know it cost your dentist at most $100 for all the material.

NHS
>employs more people than McDonald's
>Massive bureaucracy
>Hospital bills cheap as dirt
>even homeless, jobless people can afford care

Explain yourselves.

>even homeless, jobless people can afford care
Except they can't.
>cnbc.com/2016/10/26/obamacare-deductibles-are-on-the-rise-for-2017-along-with-monthly-premiums.html

people were defending the fucking 800$ pouch of salt water the other day on facebook

>Hospital bills were affordable before Obamacare doe!

Nope.

time.com/money/4765443/obamacare-bankruptcy-decline/

Remember to archive
archive.is/4GfIw

...

>Hard data
>versus weak correlation
Sure showed me.

Hold up a second, I'm on your side but the crown is only one part of the procedure. You should know this, being a dental assistant.

I'm probably going to miss some things and also call them the wrong thing but this is what you are paying for:

The Crown (obvious) which involves precision 3D CAM on a hardened ceramic material (not exactly easy)
Anesthesia
Grinding the tooth to the post
Vitality check on tooth to see if possible root canal is needed
mold of the tooth
Temporary crown installation and molding
Follow up appointment to get crown put in

I'd strongly argue that you are getting your money's worth for a crown and actually most dentist procedures. Regular doctor procedures however...

The claim that hospitals were affordable before Obamacare is total bullshit and even a 12 year old like you knows it.

>even homeless, jobless people can afford care
>afford

Doesn't count when they're not the ones paying for it.

NHS has barely any money up front you ignorant neanderthal

Why don't all you faggots just move to your beloved homeland of America so you can stop fucking up Britain? We don't need literally every single fucking nation on Earth to be a neoliberal shithole.

They were manageable. And you had options. Now you don't have any choices and they're not affordable at all. And you tossing your weak-sauce bullshit, which the article ITSELF admits no one knows for sure, just highlights the fact you're shilling something you don't understand.

How about citing the law instead of pulling shot out of your ass?This fucker gets it.
Yeah they weren't but now they are less affordable.

So you are defending OP's picture then?
Is that just the price we have to pay to make sure that only good hard working Americans get healthcare access?

Most of the kiddies here don't remember people bitching about MUH $20 HOSPITAL ASPIRIN CHARGE back in the early 1980s.

Healthcare has been broken for a very, very long time. However, socializing it won't be a fix.

>They were manageable
No, they weren't. This is a fucking right wing outright lie.

It is for every other country. Even fucking Cuba beats America for healthcare on some metrics.

You mean Obamacare even failed to deliver on that promise? Shocking.

In truth it becomes really hard to gauge how much a tylenol costs in a large system.

$1 tylenol
Cost of the warehouse and labor for a year divided by dollar value of inventory.
$100 per $1.

New cost: $101
Now factor in the hospital labor and overhead adds another factor of say $150.

So now you get a $251 tylenol.

If that is a system in which YOU would like to participate...move to Canada.

>I support death panals that determine eligibility

Obumma spent trillions of dollars for not many more people covered with medical treatment access than before, while promising lower costs!...Not even close, DOH!

Yes it was. Now you have a $12,000 deductible staring at you before insurance kicks in at all.

I just don't understand why you wouldn't have both?

>public system exists, it's slow for anything except actual emergency care and conditions are bad but it will keep you alive
>private system runs in parallel, you can pay as much as you want and will get private rooms at hospitals and faster service, government will provide a certain amount of the bill but you have to pay the excess over that

That's how it works here. I had a pilonidal sinus and in the public system it would have been six month wait for surgery but I would have got treatment eventually. In the private system I got surgery basically the next week and the doctor was kind enough to bulk-bill it (only charge the amount of the bill that the government would cover).

This was never the promise of Obamacare...
Do you even know what you are typing or is it just randomly generated?

You mean 20 million? That's not many more, huh?

Nobody is going to say Obamacare is perfect, but rightist libertarian shitheads are a cancer upon this world. Why don't you faggots fuck off to China. They have exactly the healthcare system you want.

>This was never the promise of Obamacare...
Are you fucking dumb? Yes it was. Increased revenue and money in the system was one of the promises. Because EVERYONE would be forced on it.

>Labor cost
>Tylenol pill
My god you are fucking deluded

That only works if the environment specifically allows for it. This one no longer does.

Socializing it won't help but regulating it will. Having standards set up to eliminate inefficiencies will reduce cost. Also having the prices listed up front will help people choose their hospital.

The government regulations and insurance companies are the cause of all these outrageous prices. If actual humans paid doctors and hospitals for healthcare without middlemen, the prices would be sane. But you leftist faggots cannot handle that concept.

UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE WILL MAKE THIS THOUSANDS OF TIMES WORSE, BTW.

You said Obamacare promised "barely any money up front just like NHS" . It never promised anything of the sort

You are being intellectually dishonest and i'm done feeding the troll

Alright, let's cut the fucking shit. The reason the rightist hillbilly retards are told to claim that a for-profit healthcare system is good is because medicine is big fucking business in America. There, put to bed. Now fuck off libershillians.

>You said Obamacare promised "barely any money up front just like NHS"
Here's an idea. You'll love this. Click my ID, scroll through my posts, and find out where I used the acronym, "NHS." Then realize you literally imagined this part of the argument you delusional twat.

>Put a system in place where some other guy pays for your healthcare and is forced to do so
>Surprised when hospitals charged out the ass

>but regulating it will.

See, the problem is, there's already regulation that prevents proper competition in some aspects. Pair that with too much regulation over insurance options, and that's a great deal of why we're fucked.

There needs to be a mix of regulation combined with lots of DEregulation to make things work better. It's a rare occasion where something needs both, but this is one of them.

t. guy whose dad worked in insurance for 40 years who heard plenty of stories about how broken shit is from top to bottom and how the end user always gets ass raped while everyone else makes out just fine

>duh...you mean $20 million?

We wasted more than $20 million on ridiculous state Obama exchange websites, nationwide!

Actually the US had the best healthcare system in the world before Dims got their hands on it...why else would foreigners who could pay for private services always come here?...how progressive.

Name an industry that the government is more involved in than medicine? The more government is involved in an industry the more expensive and inefficient it gets, it's a direct correlation.

You literally responded to my post where I was specifically talking about the NHS

Go to the hospital right now, this is one of the signs of having a stroke.

How are hospitals to pay their bills, then?
>inb4 subsidies
Sure let's just subsidize everything. Give me more of a reason to not pay my taxes.

Enjoy your snake oil.

So you just aren't going to pay the nurses when they administer Tylenol? That's stupid.

>If I keep trying to red herring and my opponent doesn't that means I can claim he argued something he didn't!
Keep fucking reaching though. I made damn sure to word my posts correctly. But let's not talk about how the UK constantly berates the NHS, anyway.

We out source all crowns and removables to China
Anesthetic costs 8.55 for a pack of 12 and we use maybe 3 for a crown prep
The vitality test is an xray which is digital so it costs almost nothing since out sensor has been paid of for almost 5 years now
The cement to hold the crown on is 45 dollars a tube one lasts almost 50 pts. Same for the mold material and temp material.

The very fact that Americans ubiquitously refer to it by the brand Tylenol as opposed to its generic name despite the exclusive license expiring decades ago speaks volumes enough about their healthcare.

>le look at le me I'm le trolling le degenerate nigger spic shitskin welfare queens and le socialist conspiracy le XDDD!!!

>government makes it so all full-time employees must be provided with health insurance
>most of the country has what was supposed to be a privilege given from good employers
>everyone has insurance, so hospitals charge whatever they want
>people who fall through the cracks get stuck paying the full price
What doesn't the government ruin?

> I'm an accelerationist. Do what you want. Get fucking crazy. Let people die on the street. The sooner to be rid of you neanderthals forever

Obamacare is shit, and one of the reasons we are in this mess. All financials are fucked because the gov now has a gigantic say in it.
This never works out to an efficient system.

Walk into psychologist office to discuss upping dosage of medicine. There for less than 5 minutes that'll be 200 dollars goyim.

Look up activity based costing retards.

Remove the regulations on doctors.

In the 1950's, shit like the Mason Blue Lodges were popular because they hired physicians to take care of them. They were basically health insurance groups for blue collar white men. Then regulations came in and made it illegal to practice medicine without a whole bunch of legal bullshit. Now health care is outrageously expensive because we have to buy shit we don't need from people we don't want it from (Why buy the Tylenol from the fucking doctor? Get it at Walgreens, damnit. Compete.)

This is where you need to get rid of regulations. Just look at the price of a woman giving birth to a kid today, and in the 1950's. Completely insane hike in prices, all because midwives are no longer allowed to practice without a whole bunch of legal malarkey.

Go fuck yourself.

>We out source all crowns and removables to China

Glad as fuck my dentist makes all his crowns in-house, the fuck that I'd ever want a sub-par quality piece of Chinese garbage permanently installed in my mouth.

>everything should only cost a small margin above what the raw materials cost because that's what I think

If only the world were so simple, my friend, but it isn't, and you're going to be very disappointed as you learn this the hard way.

>don't have health insurance
>spend health insurance money on cars, iPhones, and other frivolous bullshit
>complain when you can't afford medical care

I understand some people really can't afford it, but I know most people without health care are just too lazy or too stupid to both live within their means and plan for the future.

this. No one actually pays these prices. From an accounting perspective they can also use it for loss accounting for those who don't pay.

>lmgtfy.com/?q=good news about Obamacare
>The only "good news" about Obamacare is legal activity.
That's telling all by itself.

>inb4 someone posts some garbage article from a rag like Front Page Magazine with that image from a Cuban prison 20 years ago

I work for a doctor and own my own house, when will I learn these lessons.

What am I paying for?
Them to pop open the bottle and take one pill out? Them to fill a glass of water for me to swallow?
Fuck off capitalist.

No they won't. Remove government from healthcare and this will never happen again.

In the case of that headline, it was brand name tylenol being administered.

Yes, that is literally what you are paying for. Do you not understand what a hospital is?

You are paying for them to wipe your ungrateful ass when you shit yourself like the retard you are.

Why do commies never have any grasp of accounting. Really explains a lot about their shit ideology.

Fucking true, even WITH insurance. Recent story:

>wife has weird mole on thigh that has gotten bigger
>primary care physician says she should get checked out by a dermatologist to make sure it's non-cancerous
>makes appointment with derm
>get 15 minutes window for appointment length
>derm runs 5 minutes late, so now her appointment is only considered a 10-miunte length visit
>checks mole, says it's fine, but to keep watch over it
>took 5 minutes total to make diagnosis
>wife says "Hey, I have another one on my back that I'm hoping you can look at while I'm here"
>derm says "Sorry, I only was scheduled to check one location even though you have time left, please schedule a new appointment with the front desk and you can see me again
>wife gets fucking pissed, says "I AM NOT COMING BACK IN A MONTH DRIVING ACROSS TOWN FOR THIS SHIT, CHECK ME WHILE I'M HERE, I STILL HAVE 5 MINUTES OF YOUR TIME LEFT FOR WHAT I AM PAYING FOR!"
>derm reluctantly checks other mole quickly, takes 1 minutes, says "So long, I'm done here".
>get bill, cost $120 for that shit even with top-tier insurance

Basically, you're fucked no matter what under the current system. We pay a fuckload for our coverage because I won't accept shit-tier level quality in case we need it, and you STILL get shit service and financial raping every time someone can do it to you.

If that's all you needed why go to a hospital?

Explain to me why the same pill of tylenol costs 10000 times more money at a hospital than at a pharmacy please.

You haven't seen how little some people can afford.

Do you really want me to answer this obvious question?

Because they didn't know it was all they needed when they decided to seek out a doctor.

You'll learn when you realize that many times, you have to actually pay more for better quality, and your employer would probably be paying you minimum wage if he were only charging a fraction over cost on everything. You wouldn't own your home, so indirectly, you have profited and succeeded from the same system you're decrying for being too expensive.

I'll let that simmer for a moment, let me know what you think.

Fuck off, rationing shillfag.

Holy shit. No one can be this fucking stupid.

>Running to the hospital over every little trifle and expecting someone else to pay for it all.
Gee, how could things go to shit? It's a mystery!

Because the hospital has to cover it's operational cost, you fucking double IQ retard. If obango didn't make it legal for the insurance companies to racket hospitals this wouldn't be an issue, now would it?

No, shaniqua couldn't be turned away from the ER because het knees dunfeelrite (it's because she's overweight).
This is what happens when you support socialism with no consideration for the financials that power these services. Take an economics class, tard.

>implying he thinks

i wonder (((((who))))) is monopolizing the industry and milking it for shekls?

You would be surprised - and the guy is right.

He's actually right in a backwards way. If there are no regulations to defend drug patents, said drugs will be a lot cheaper for everyone to produce.
Of course we would lose all incentive for the research into new drugs, but I guess that's not his point.

>those dates
>some how this isn't Obama's fault
KYS OP.

If we got rid of Obamacare, get rid of the tax
the market distorting credits that encourage employers to offer 'cadillac health plans', and only socialize healthcare through consumer driven healthcare via HDHP and HSA, the prices would be a lot better.

In reality if they are using tylenol as a way to cover overhead costs of operating their hospital by marking it up by 1000%+ they are fucking retarded and beyond any hope, the real problem is when they do this for every single aspect of care. From basic medical supplies to food.

>If obango didn't make it legal for the insurance companies to racket hospitals this wouldn't be an issue, now would it?

Kind of, but not entirely. Coming from an insurance family, I was always told that a great deal of the problem is that hospitals have traditionally gouged because, hey, why not, there's not really competition when you're dealing with a ruptured appendix, correct?

Then, with the gouging, insurance companies got bent over as medical practices kept raising rates, forcing insurance companies to jack up pricing because there was nothing preventing hospitals/physicians from setting their own price. Who goes price shopping before they seek medical care? Almost nobody.

Insurance costs rise, we all pay for it, and both the hospitals and the insurance companies get richer while we get squeezed harder.

Add in the fact of what you said about Shaqueefa taking Quantavious to the ER for every stomach ache ever, wasting shitloads of billable time/work/product that gets passed down to the rest of us the same way it does when faggots shoplift and stores jack up the rates on everyone else, and you've got a fucked up mess.

Precisely why I mention a combo of some regulation combined with much de-regulation that could provide better options a better cost could do wonders to fix this.

There IS a major reason that more private walk-in clinics have come about over the years. If you're going to get ass raped on costs at the doctor/hospital you normally go to, why not just spend less and go where you know you'll pay less? We've used a few before for minor things and save a ton, but sadly, you have to be thinking ahead when shit happens and when it's a real emergency, not much you can do about it.

>I still don't understand accounting and business, but I sure as hell will pretend I Do!
It's averaged out across all medicines and scaled based on what Is sold the most. Otherwise, how would the hospital pay their bills? Insurance companies sure as hell aren't going to pay a
>maintenance/labor fee
on a medical bill. How does that pertain to the care of the patient on question? (This is how the insurance's lawyers will phrase it)

Maybe we should start by not making insurance a legal requirement, thus removing the business security provided to all insurance companies by the state.

>Coming from an insurance family...
I know you posted a whole tl;dr but all I see is a giant neon sign that reads, "BIAS."

We charge over 10x the cost for materials for implants. We charge 50 dollars for fluoride which is 20 more than a box of 40.

That green text won't really make sense, I didn't notice the ID change. Wasn't meant for you, muh bad.

Get insurance poorfag.

How much do you pay for malpractice insurance? Ever consider the cost for things like that are spread across all possible charges?
How is this such a hard concept.