What about an economy where currency is abolished and you get paid credits by the government when you work?
Like: After the 20 yo. you get an account with 100.000 credits Each work hour gives you 20 credits, all jobs are paid equal You cannot surpass 2.000.000 credits Your credits are expired after you die and you cannot give more than 20.000 credit on donations each year, nor receive more than 60.000 on donations
Pros: Easy to identify criminal activities No capital accumulation Equal starting condictions Merit based economy No loans (no jews)
Cons: Muh freedom Muh greedy competition
>inb4 kids would starve Children would get free stuff by the government until adulthood
What do you think, Sup Forums?
Gabriel Hill
This is the single worst idea I have ever heard of in my life.
Dominic Reyes
...
Josiah Reyes
More efficient to just keep monetary currency and gulag the people who try to capitalize through degeneracy. Shoah the concept of "exclusive" private property and the cryptokike faggots have nothing to hide their responsibilities to society.
No it's not, look at your flag
Evan Kelly
I think you're a Neet
Anthony Ortiz
>all jobs are paid equal
Well fuck being a doctor if i get paid the same as a store clerk.
Carson Taylor
What a bunch of bullshit, consider an hero
Try implementing it in your hipster commune first
John Butler
Yeah how would pricing work? >Merit based economy >everyone gets the same amount of credits regardless of job Pick one.
Sebastian Clark
>>all jobs are paid equal
lmao
Come back after you've swallowed your first reality pill: Humans are not equal.
Andrew Sanders
If I get 20 credits an hour regardless of what I do than why shouldn't everyone strive to do the easiest work possible. Why should someone be an Alaskan Crab Fisherman or economist when some other guy gets paid the same to flip burgers all day?
Jordan Flores
>no currency >everyone gets another currency Kangunist level of idiocy here.
Asher Miller
nice meme
Robert Robinson
Being paid equal doesn't mean there's an unlimited supply of menial work. All the store clerk/burger flipper jobs would be snapped up and you'd be left with being a doctor/crab fisherman.
Nolan Sanchez
You're no better than that store clerk in the eyes of God. Get off your high horse.
Gavin Long
That's called Communism.
Wyatt Miller
This is ass-backwards technocracy.
Landon Hernandez
First of all, currency equals credits. You literally replaced the word "ruble" with "credit" in a communist government. Watch:
>get an account with 100.000 credits (from the government) >all jobs are paid equal >Your credits are expired after you die (goes to the government)
Then the limitations kick in: >2.000.000 credits > cannot give more than 20.000 credit on donations each year, nor receive more than 60.000 on donations
no limits on property: all that is rare will be bought, property becomes the new currency, limitations are lost.
It doesn't stop there but you can already see that this is literally the dumbest idea I've heard of, ever.
Kevin James
So how is that any better? All you're doing is turning it into a system determined by chance rather than price. What happens when you've got 5000 retarded surgeons and nuclear technicians because all the dumb people slept in on job assignment day?
Christopher Evans
>all jobs are paid equally >the doctor who took 10 years of med school and saves people for a living is going to be paid the same as a burger flipper who is barely motivated enough to bot spit in your food
GOOD IDEA!!!!
Elijah Price
it's still a better idea than communism
Oliver Diaz
Its basically the same shit. No accumulation of capital=no enterprise=state production of everything from qtips to dragon dildos
Alexander Stewart
space-communism is still communism faggot
Benjamin Evans
t. communism
Nathan Gonzalez
If everyone is paid equal, people would be free to do what they like, and if they lack any professional perspective they would just do an easy production and manufacturing job
There would be no property ownership, just renting from government
Benjamin Clark
>not buying state-approved dragon dildos user...
Aiden Barnes
It's already determined by chance
>What happens when you've got 5000 retarded surgeons and nuclear technicians because all the dumb people slept in on job assignment day?
Why would that mean the surgeons and nuclear technicians get to skip education and training? The smart people aren't going to be the ones taking the unskilled menial jobs. Or if they are smart, they're also lazy faggots who are just trying to avoid contributing their fullest potential to society because "wahhh I don't get to be richer than others"
Nicholas Anderson
Let me guess, the political class arewill be exempt from the credit and donations received cap?
Carson Wilson
>wahh how come I don't get to have financial power over others
The burger flipper wouldn't be thinking about spitting in your food because he wouldn't be a snotty little ingrate raised under capitalism. If a system like this managed to be implemented it'd mean the society has been whipped back into shape.
Jonathan Cruz
> just renting from government
Then this system is entirely flawed for transition, in order to make this a reality you will have to let the majority of people vote "yes" to giving away what they have and worked hard for.
Do you really think anything like that will ever happen? This means you being taken away from your home, computer, all belongings, etc.
Brandon Garcia
>The Ministry of Love has produced 59,000 dragon dildos this quarter which beats last quarters record of 48,000 dragon dildos. >Dragon dildos rationed to one per district Double plus good
Wyatt Jenkins
Sounds like disgusting communism.
Jeremiah Davis
...
Adam Wright
>Is your district experiencing dragon dildo shortages? >Contact your local Ministry of Love representative and petition a surplus shipment!
Isaac Hernandez
>all jobs are paid equal
You're a fucking moron
I bet you genuinely think this is a good idea
Can we start murdering commies in the street soon?
Chase Harris
why would you put the extra work in to become a doctor if you get paid the same as a burger jockey? You commies really don't get it you think people will continue their lives exactly as is if the government pays for everything and some might, but within a single generation we will have no doctors, scientists, engineers because why would they, yeah the job at McDonalds might be taken but there's a hell of alot of options between that and doctor
Anthony Thompson
if everyone is paid equal, people would just do what requires least effort.
Why spend years at university putting a massive effort in every day when you can just wash some dishes and still be just as rich.
Henry Morales
>giving up privately owned wealth for government distributed fiat >essentially forfeiting all your rights to the credit bureau >stupid limitations cause crazy pricing problems and black markets >incentives all fucked up
Your society is doomed. Learn to basic economics. That idea is fucking awful
Bentley Ortiz
>the government able to turn off anyones ability to buy and sell at a single command wow op, way to put humanities balls into an even tighter vice then they're in now
>trusting the state >ever fucking naive
Charles Diaz
Nope, because your kike capitalist overlords want to keep them as their pets. And you'll do nothing about it because look, COOL NEW iPHONE!
Sebastian Edwards
You have no grasp on psychology or incentive structures. Sure, some dedicated people would go into the niches but those are fewer compared to the system we have now. Harder jobs should be rewarded with more money.
Nathan Smith
>If everyone is paid equal, people would be free to do what they like
This is a lie, I like to sit around and get head all day, I doubt there will be many positions available for this job.
In all honesty, the reason people do the difficult and dangerous jobs like crab fisherman, sewer repair, electrical lineman, gas pipeline repair in Alaska etc. isn't because they simply like doing it, it's because they generally pay extremely well. They work for a couple weeks or months and get paid the equivalent of an entire years salary doing something menial in most cases.
You will be very hard pressed finding anyone to volunteer for these jobs if they simply make just as much as their french fry engineer counterparts. Then it becomes a forced labor situation because the political class still want to eat king crab legs under electrical lighting that were hand delivered rio then by truck and have it be guaranteed to flush down the toilet when they crap it out the next morning. I don't know why you commies refuse to realize that most people don't risk their lives everyday or swim in your shit because they love to do it, they do it because it pays better than your job as a burger flipper or grocery store clerk.
Jace Morgan
>why would you put the extra work in to become a doctor if you get paid the same as a burger jockey? Because for normal human beings who aren't afflicted with capitalism, treating their sick countrymen and saving their lives is more valuable than getting to buy a more luxurious car and a bigger house than other people.
>You commies Kys, kike.
>there's a hell of alot of options between that and doctor And there's a hell of a lot of people to take those options, dumbass. Making sure unfilled jobs are filled is literally the best thing planned economies do. They fall short in creating new jobs to accommodate growing population, but that's less of an issue than in "muhh freedom, muhh capitalism" since people wouldn't be allowed to churn out kids with impunity.
Julian Peterson
The biggest issue with a communistic economic system is the reliance on a different sort of human nature to the one that currently exists. You are essentially arguing for a humanity which isn't motivated by accumulation of resource or merit, but one motivated by altruistism for a community. Whilst it is a nice thought, it suffers from Utopianism. The question is, what do you do with the people who don't fit the mound you want to build? Welcome to Cambodia.
Adam Gomez
At least in anarcho-capitalism you preserve the hierarchy. This thread is weapons-grade autism that tells a distinct lack of knowledge over economics and psychology. I'm just here for the dragon dildos now.
Justin Murphy
>> 141276676 Bureaucrats and people in charge of things would be strictly chosen by merit through public tendering
Brandon Kelly
Hail Satan!
Brody Davis
>Harder jobs should be rewarded with more money. Should be, right. Not "need" to be. Our incentive structure is currently built around shitting on fellow members of society. It's something that's taught as desirable. That's the psychology behind it.
Different psychology == different structure.
Joseph Hughes
> All jobs paid equally This is where it fails
Luis Roberts
You would have to teir the jobs, almost by how much each one is needed, and by how many people can do the job. So basically the way it is now wagecuck. You get paid shit because a trained monkey could do your job.
Hunter Kelly
>preserve the hierarchy Where 50% of billionaires are jewish? You've got that right.
Noah Turner
...
Julian Barnes
>hurr durr I hate rich Jews because they gamed a rigged system better than me Crony capitalism sucks man, get over it.
Austin Ward
>Because for normal human beings who aren't afflicted with capitalism, treating their sick countrymen and saving their lives is more valuable than getting to buy a more luxurious car and a bigger house than other people.
You don't know human nature very well do you there bud?
Isaac James
That doesn't even make sense
Lucas Sullivan
>missed a quint kys
Ayden Williams
It's the Mersenne prime of gets. Twice as common as a normal get though, if you think about it.
Dylan Thomas
This is like the basic income bullshit. Literally all they have to do is cut back on what they so generously grant to their citizens, or let inflation devalue it and then they have a completely beholden slave class of workers. You're basically talking about state capitalism, under which in every case there flourishes a black market barter economy. With modern narcotics science, it's pretty obvious where that goes - meth as currency basically.
Carter Martinez
>Hey Bill, you owe me rent >Hold on Jack, let me fish it out of my ass
Julian Phillips
You're all missing something very important, the black market. Think cryptocurrency is peaking now? Creating a limit just means that they will use their maxed credit to buy something physical in bulk to trade on the black market, could be anything, bullion, whisky, in exchange for items that can't be accessed normally to bypass the donation limit. Soviet Union had a very large black market network thanks to regular shortages and large food lines, outlawing things just makes people find other creative ways
Chase Martin
>kike pretending economics is separate from society and culture so his destruction of the latter two is regarded as acceptable. Nothing new here.
>n-not real capitalism! Yes lad, it is real capitalism. And the only way it would be different in Ancap is that the moral obligations imposed on the state(s) to the well-being of society wouldn't exist, since the state(s) will openly be a for-profit corporation rather than just secretly one.
Gabriel Morales
>Kids get free stuff >slut pumps out 30 kids >Lives for free
>Equal starting condictions >Birth defects still exist >Parents can donate to teachers to get out of hours education >All parents are the same
>Minecraft lets player with 3 subs gets paid same as Firefighter >Merit based
>Gov stops all innovation decidng that new jobs are not real jobs or making not real jobs into jobs
James Hernandez
You're confusing kike nature with human nature. They taught you that your tribe doesn't extend beyond your personal family and friends.
Oliver Martinez
How about cum?
We can use cum as a currency
>Advantages Origin-identifiable Privileges men (women can't produce it) High-test men automatically become richer Supply limited
>Disadvantages Has to be frozen in order to not decompose Encourages men to masturbate more frequently, and not have kids
William Adams
>Yes lad, it is real capitalism Sorry pal, it's not (at least in the US it isn't. Some countries practice capitalism, and they seem to be doing fine for now). Economic fascism =/= capitalism.
>And the only way it would be different in Ancap is that the moral obligations imposed on the state(s) to the well-being of society wouldn't exist, since the state(s) will openly be a for-profit corporation rather than just secretly one. You fucked this one up, because ancaps don't believe in the necessity of the state (see: anarcho-). However, let's say we implement an Ancap state. The state will openly be for-profit, yes. So to remain in business, it'd have to satisfy the needs of its citizenry, no? Otherwise it'd go out of business.
Josiah Ramirez
They use communists as nation-topplers. Communists will always exist here as long as kikes are in control, because it's a security for them. And kikes will always be in control within free markets and capitalism.
Lucas Flores
Your dog-eat-dog consciousness is a product of Diversity. In a healthy and normal ethnically homogenous society you would be less individualistic. That said I don't blame "capitalism" (aka the moral proscription of theft) for anything ever.
Also kek, fukken saved.
Nathaniel Foster
There would be merit criteria in choosing people for high disputed jobs
Austin James
>Advantages You get to whip your dick out in public Paying whores just got a lot easier
>Disadvantages You whip your dick out in public
I'd go for no central currency, and let currencies compete. A natural apex currency would emerge eventually, and that'd become the de facto standard
Wyatt Bell
No one is saying someone is better. It's about the amount of effort you put into your career. A doctor definitely puts way more effort into his career than a store clerk.
Josiah Carter
How is it merit based when the engineer designing bridges gets paid the same as a diversity officer?
Nathaniel Jones
Chaotic for a while though - wealth can easily be wiped out by shifts in the currency market. It's like cryptos - really cool so long as there's a stable currency to convert to and from, but way too volatile to be a useful and meaningful store of value.
Caleb Carter
That's the secret... it isn't.
Adam Jones
what is the upper right quadrant in the left libtards?
Joseph Thomas
Well all currencies retain value by the market's trust in its integrity. Gold was used forever because it's a limited-quantity, shiny metal that you could earn through mining or trade. I personally think we should go back to gold currency, or at the very least gold-backed currency with no loans.
Cameron Scott
North korea?
John Cruz
Get a job faggot I bet you spent a lot of time writing that, thinking that people will accept your arbitrary determination on how they should live
Kevin Lewis
I think so. Hillaryfags are right above it, so probably the average lib.
Elijah Edwards
>merit criteria you're retarded.
Henry Baker
>Economic fascism =/= capitalism Sorry lad, it is. It's called voluntary association. Don't abandon your ancap principles just because you're not on the winning side.
>ancaps don't believe in the necessity of the state Yes they do. It's communists that don't.
>it'd have to satisfy the needs of its citizenry, no? Otherwise it'd go out of business. We have food and shelter and entertainment in our current system. That's our needs taken care of.
Jace Martinez
>give government more control over your life
No thanks op, that is a terrible idea. Modern governments should never have that kind of power.
Hunter Stewart
>Hey Joe, what do you want to be when you grow up? > I wanna be an Astronaut! :DDDD
40 years later >Alright, I've trained my whole life to be an astronaut. Time to make my family proud. >Sorry Joe, you're needed down at the factory that makes cans of uneasiness. >But... my merits! >Sorry Joe, we've recently introduced merit criteria. You just don't qualify in the STEM/Aeronautics criteria.
William James
>anarchism >having a state >ancaps believe we need the state i laughed so hard i almost shit myself. see this is why we think you guys are retarded
Nolan Price
Holy shit friend, you've got no idea what ancaps even believe in.
Dylan Watson
>lel cummunists don't want a state
Ian Baker
Just as the last guy said, this ideal would work for a ethnically homogenous society. In a melting pot society like the U.S. and UK, there is no sense of camaraderie, just one man or race for himself.
The last time your way of thinking worked was in Nazi Germany, and the kikes shot them down and tarnished everything about that legacy even to this day.
Unless we ship back niggers and Mexicans, your feel good equal credit system will never work, because God knows I'm not going to work harder than idiots and get paid the same.
Anthony Cruz
>what is free assocation?
Aiden Perez
...
Lincoln Harris
Gold doesn't have sufficient liquidity any more, and it's overly concentrated in the hands of a very small number of people. We're way past the point where a physically material currency offers any significant advantage over an abstract one.
The way I see it, future currencies will probably represent some aggregate of the entire economy - labour, materials, value added, commodities traded measured through a single, distributed blockchain ledger. Value derived and automatically calculated based on mutual relative value rather than translating from economic entity to common unit and back again - the unit itself simply becomes a measurement of economic activity.
It's -sort of- the way currency works now, except it doesn't require a currency entity to be arbitrarily produced.
I figure ancaps like yourself would be all over this idea.
Brandon Roberts
I love the idea of the blockchain, I've been implementing it in several of my projects (software dev), and am thinking of investing. I'm just a fan of material currencies, because you can't stick a bitcoin wallet in a safe. We're already on the way towards USD collapse, and we're beginning to see a rise in bitcoin-esque trade. It's an exciting prospect.
Ian Russell
Don't use LARP flags if you're not bothered enough to actually learn anything about the ideology.
I've sent threads to bump limit debating Ancap faggots.
They believe in states, they just don't believe in the involuntary nature of our current state. Ancapistan isn't some retarded fucking hippie commune, it doesn't mean you get to sit on your porch by yourself in the middle of nowhere and be free. It means the systems of law and governance are voluntary, and so they'll be forced to compete.
Justin Adams
That right there's your problem, mòn ami. Most of the flagbearers on here (especially on threads like /lrg/) aren't even ancaps. Some wear it to hide their real location (t. shills), and most who wear it believe in some retarded, warped version of it. Not to mention the fact that they nearly break their arms beating off the fetid corpse of Hans-Hermann Hoppe like he's some sort of idol. Unfortunately for us, I don't intend to stick around until thread-death, since I'm technically supposed to be working right now.
Ryder Cruz
Indeed. If I regret anything, it's that I didn't get in when Sup Forums was handing out 20K, 50K btc for nothing, but who am I kidding, I would've sold it all for a bag of weed before it was worth anything anyway.
My issue with physical currency is the barriers to distribution are impractical in a digitized economy, and it's way too easy to centralize - control a gold mine, for example, and you have unprecedented economic power. Gold itself still represents a store of value without needing to be a currency. There are also the considerations of scarcity - if gold was the defined currency, it'd be so valuable, you'd have to denominate it and pay in such infintesimally minute quantities that it'd become impossible to measure, and spilling some gold dust on the carpet by accident could wipe out half your net worth - there simply isn't enough of the stuff to go around.
Ian Kelly
This. Sage this leftypol shit.
James Turner
>there simply isn't enough of the stuff to go around There was an economist a while back (going to find sauce in just a sec), who estimated we'd only need under a trillion dollars to conduct all the current economic activity the USD is handling. So you could swap out the USD with gold and silver, with very little consequence (a bit of USD hyperinflation as the value drops to nothing, and a change in market-determined values), but in the end it'd balance out just fine.
As for the digitization, that is one thing I've had a hard time coming to terms with. You can't ship gold in the mail, that's not a very smart plan unless it's ensured (and even then, what would you ensure it with? More gold?). One thought I had that would fix this is having a metals-backed digital certificate that would represent your money, but that's essentially bitcoin with unnecessary overhead. I don't really know. Tech has sort of forced our hand, what with the advent of instant global communications. I guess we'll have to see where the dice land.
Jeremiah Phillips
Shills don't sit in a thread for 6 hours debating the finer details of an ideology that doesn't even have a presence in mainstream politics. They were ancap. And their points had a lot more substance than "le helicopter maymays" that usually accompany this fuckin flag.
But it's fine, I don't plan on hanging around either.
Robert Wright
As with all things, the superior method will win, assuming the resistance and momentum of the status quo can be quashed - that's only a matter of time and opportunity.
Colton Rivera
I think you might be literally retarded. Medfag here and have been for going on 14 years. I've completed undergrad, med school, residency, and 2 fellowships to get my dream job of working trauma in one of the most advanced trauma centers in America. I get paid EXTREMELY well for the work I do AND the work it took to get here. I can tell you, without a doubt or reservation, if what you say comes true there will be ZERO people like me working in medicine. The only people that will are woefully underqualified minorities and females who want the position for reasons other than helping their fellow man. Eat a bag of dicks you commie faggot.
Gabriel Moore
While I don't like OP's idea, in such a situation, if people were paid the same while training, lots of people would like to work in medicine but can't, this could give them the means to do so - and likewise, the more people can be enabled in the skills of medicine, it would provide relief for the overstretched and understaffed medical profession - it might be a lot less stressful and more fulfilling to live in. If the amount was sufficient to lead a dignified and comfortable life, plenty of people would choose it.
John Wilson
Fuck, I can't find the sauce. I was reading a few articles on the Federal Reserve about a year ago, and I remember reading it. I'll keep looking.
The status quo is just a reactionary force, so it just needs something to react to. How about the looming global economic crisis?
David Carter
>there will be ZERO people like me working in medicine
Is it your dream job because of how EXTREMELY well you get paid? If so, I don't want people like you working it. You can fuck off down a mine somewhere.