Welfare is a program which provides nothing to the state and promotes laziness

Welfare at least in Britain is utterly stupid. You have to "prove" you are looking for work, which is basically showing job applications you have filled out. People can just "apply" for jobs but never accept because then they would have to work and not sit at home giving nothing to the state. Why do we just give migrants welfare because they have no right to it ever welfare should be gone with for forced labour so they help the state and not themselves.

Is it easy toget job in Britain?

Fairly there is always a shop looking for another worker.

I believe it works the same here in the states, Just fill any application proving that you are actively looking for a job, and proving that you have some form of intellectual or physical disability and you can get welfare, I mean, I myself personally am not on welfare, but no sane employer will ever hire me, and I do qualify for welfare.

Our welfare works the same, I just have to show 10 job applications per month and I'm fine.

Also AMA welfare recipient.

How old are you?

25

Welfare creates loyal voters to the dem party.

agree with your points 100%

it's scary how people think UBI is a good idea, UBI is permanent welfare for everyone

Did you worked before?

Welfare sounds good on paper. In Ontario has something similar where government services will help you get a job and pay for your minimum living expense and enough to get you a haircut and maybe some decent clothes. Ots the shitlords who abuse these systems that fuck everything up.

It is a bit different here in the states.
First you have federal or state level care.
In places like California you can become disabled for pretty much any reason. While in TN I had to jump through years of hoops to prove I was disabled when I had extensive medical history.
Individual states have individual levels, same example in TN welfare does not exist, you're either disabled or not. If you need assistance they will pretty much provide food stamps, a little bit off your utility bill, and education.

Now federal is different, section 8 housing for instance is federal benefits.
Add that to TN "welfare" and it makes it relatively easy to live for only a few hours of work a week.

For the record, I am completely disabled and can barely pay my bills. Since I can't work I can't work under the table either. So in my case I am not the kind of person spending my money on useless shit.
While most people who can work hard labor are getting benefits that almost match mine. They can theoretically get a lot more money. Since they are also not paying taxes on the under the table work.

If you're a woman, you can pretty much not work for life in The U.S.A. male privilege my ass.

No but they get pretty angry with me in the office there since I'm on welfare since nearly 2 years.

That's pretty rad actually

I have been thinking of a way that UBI would be viable and, hilariously enough, I believe you could have UBI but it requires sweeping taxation changes, the complete erasure of all current government benefit programs, the erasure of government retirement plans, and massive cuts to government employment and overhead as obviously would follow suit.

I've got an idea where we could probably fund UBI right now without just "taxing the rich" and in a way that actually emphasizes the individual to succeed rather than fail.

Thing is, due to the sweeping changes, It's completely contrary to what the commies have in mind. I find that hilarious and why I'm looking into it more to write a paper on for fun. I will either prove it's viability in a realistic way (good?) Or prove it's a complete fucking pipe dream (probably). Either way I view it as a worthwhile exercise.

How the flying fuck do you get welfare?

I lived studied in England for 3 years, couldn't find work at all, and didn't get shit.

I did work experience in a GPs reception as a kid.

I mostly sent people on to get their disability allowance checked off with depression.

The normal staff didn't seem to believe any of them were 100% legit. Just said; if they say they have certain symtoms, the GP will have to diagnose them.

Eitherway, in my mind, if you're depressed. Sitting on your arse all day and thinking about shit is just going to make it worse. We're not helping anyone by allowing them to wallow.

yeah, cause the money just fucken disappears the second you give it to them. you have no idea how the economy works

>w-we're putting the money back into the economy!!! (by stealing it from you)

No, you give them money they spend it in places like shops, the items have tax, government gets tax money. But it would be better for the economy if they were forced to work on improving things like infrastructure and building then sitting around all day get the money for free.

JSA and Universal credit don't work that way...

If you apply for a job through universal job match, which is basically a requirement now; the Job centre is told if you have an interview, and if you recieve an offer.

secondly, have you seen the amount you get on benefits and the restrictions that now exist?

The only way to "apply" for a job and not accept is if you apply for one outside of the Job match... but as most of those jobs are mirrored; it's easier to apply through the JSA.

If these people are as lazy as you claim, then it's a whole shit load of work to fabricate 30 hours a week of job search and applications.

Perhaps a better option, would be to place benefit claiments into public sector jobs with training; repairing roads, handling admin etc etc.... and boost the payments they recieve up to Min Wage levels.

Or boost those benefits and get them onto actual apprenticeship courses which gives them the skills that that native people apparently don't have.

Use the benefits system as an investment on people instead.

I see what you mean, if UBI meant guaranteed survival for all, then benefits, pensions, etc could be completely done away with.

But the fundamental difference is that, no matter how you crunch then numbers, our current system still expects / pressures most people to work, and try to pull part of their own weight (exceptions for successful welfare / disability fraud types etc). Whereas UBI would change this completely. It would mean people would no longer have to pull their own weight whatsoever, no questions asked. And that is a revolutionary concept, and seems completely unsustainable / impossible.

Next time you get the letter telling you where your tax was spent. Look at how much welfare dominates all other areas your money is spent on.

LIterally >50%

Sort of but not quite.

The biggest boner for me is that you obliterate govt pensions. The UBI is enough to cover food and some rent, But that's about it. It also scales down with age and eventually it cuts off.

I have a whole bunch of ideas/ theories I want to crunch numbers on because I find it fascinating to ride it out fully if possible and take it seriously while doing it.

And the reason that is a big boner for me is that you've got the govt on the hook for bi-weekly or monthly payouts, or you're gonna have a fucking immediate rebellion. It kind of creates a beautiful potential accountability that does not exist with governments managing ponzie scheme retirement programs that are leveraged to invest and pay other debts, and often lose money in those investments.

Again though, I'm not talking like 30k a year. MORE like 10k a year at the high end of the UBI scale that scales down from there.

But the policy comes packaged with other things that make that 10grand go further.

Also another thing to keep on mind about UBI is that it means the deletion of minimum wage. And now we're talking lowering the prices of goods. Also, agai, we don't make inflation happen here because we are making producers pay more. The pay is coming out of government coffers, not private coffers. I find that appealing.

I'm on EBT.

>The UBI is enough to cover food and some rent, But that's about it. It also scales down with age and eventually it cuts off.

I guess there are finer points to discuss about the UBI, but I thought it was just the same amount for everyone, forever, unconditionally (except that it might adjust for inflation over time), no scaling or cutting off with age.

If UBI is covers food & some rent & nothing else, then I assume there is an expectation for people to save for their retirement for any needs on top of this (any remaining rent not covered, medication, etc). And inevitably some will fail to do this. And then they will probably screech and demand more money, and apply for some kind of welfare on top of UBI, won't they? Otherwise they will never be able to retire, or if they do they'll be unable to meet their financial needs, and possibly lose their homes or even die from medical neglect.

>The pay is coming out of government coffers, not private coffers.
You've lost me. Govt coffers are only fed thru private coffers (thru taxes), therefore all the pay comes out of private coffers at the end of the day. You can't magically create money.

Universal Jobmatch is shit though, not all listings go through the site in that way. A lot of, if not most, vacancies are advertised with a contact email or something so nothing gets flagged. You could just claim to be contacting employers or agencies directly and you've bypassed the system, which is just a few minutes a day of seeing what is being advertised and manually copy/paste the vacancy with the job codes in you jobsearch history section and show that when you sign.

In Austria there are so many variations of getting welfare. 3 stages in work agencies, where you put under training courses if you don't do anything.
Then you get checked if you are mentally ill. It's easy to make a case for it. You get the money. Then there will be some kind of shit you have to do to get "healed".

Been on sickness benefit for a year and a bit.
Literally says on my medical certificate I'm able to work part time.
They want a new cert every 3 months and that's it.
The only meetings I had were to sort out clerical fuck ups they had made.
I had to have a full scale review in order to get help getting into work.
They seemed shocked that I wanted to get a job.
Turns out that they have an employment agency under contract that is specifically oriented to helping people like me into work. They never read my medical certificate, just the date and docs signature.
Employment agency takes me in and four weeks later I have an interview with an employer and a full support network to assist me if anything falls to shit.

Social welfare is great when it works.
But for the most part it seems like the agencies themselves are content to let people stagnate on the dole as long as they don't kick up a fuss. We have a 'you must provide evidence you are looking for work' thing.
But during my shorter, earlier stint without medical they never followed up on it.
What I learned was how easy it is to get and keep welfare. No wonder it becomes a lifestyle. Hell it is my lifestyle.
The only reason I want out is that I fucking hate myself for leeching off the taxpayer and want to earn my own way in life like a normal human.

It's not about money. It's about building the mindset of the people to be able to provide of goods&services.

Our entire system is still built on "get the best grades > get the best schools > get the best jobs > get the best money, use the weaklings"

UK is different to TN then, very bias against those who try to work or who fall inbetween income groups. If you live in London or any major city there is no point working unelss it's over $48,000 becfore tax your housing costs are $16,000 absolute minumum plus you start paying for medical prescriptions for yourself and your children who also no longer get free school meals, you need another $4,000 for housing taxes etc it carries on.

working under the table just isn't worth it for the risk you end up losing everything not that you fall down a step or two you go from a middle class life to nothing.

One of the worst parts about UK life is you either have nothing and still pay high taxes overall including 20% sales tax and have very few freedoms but the government will let you off some taxes and big costs like housing if you beg them enough. Or you earn enough that you don't have to ask for any help and do most things privately like medical care, childcare, virtual gated communities based on income and being 100% residential, education in private schools both young and older.

it's a sort of mess the UK right now.

>>The only reason I want out is that I fucking hate myself for leeching off the taxpayer and want to earn my own way in life like a normal human.

The entire state and politicians aren't human beings?
People getting angry over welfare queens over the establishment and politicians are the most despicable.

You're right.

But also wrong. You can magically create money. How do you think banks work?

>It's not about money. It's about building the mindset of the people to be able to provide of goods&services.

Sorry but I can't decipher any meaning out of this at all, it sounds like vague gibberish.

All money has to come from somewhere. You can't magically access govt money for programs without taxing productive citizens. Productive citizens pay for literally everything.

They aren't creating value by printing money. They are simply inflating the money supply without changing the total amount of value, so each dollar is worth less. And the people who receive the newly printed money have effectively stolen a small amount of value from everyone else.

There's never any magic.

You can tax consumption only.

Fuck you, autism bux are the only thing keeping me alive. I would have to go back to my parents, I'd rather kill myself and let europe burn than get a job and work for our EUSSR.

It's a question of personal responsibility and civic obligation.
I have taken from the system for my own benefit.
I shall give back to the system that aided me.

Yes but that doesn't change the fact that every single thing the government does must be paid for thru taxes which come from productive citizens.

What will taxing consumption only change?

They then take additional money off the person who took out the credit. So even if the value was inflated with the creation of the credit, the banks still take more money and therefore profit.

They arn't creating value by creating money, but by being allowed to do that and profit off it.

That's not how it works I'm afraid friend, the current system is no longer concerned with actually getting people into work but is primarily focused on not handing out money unless you are non white. I worked in a Jobcentre for a few years and the system is only concerned with making sure "refugees" are treated well and the native population can fuck off, starve and live on the streets if you live in a small northern post-industrial town where state hides the ones who are fresh off the banana boat.

Isnt it also possible that they can find you a job, but you cant turn it down (or at least cant turn down several jobs without losing the gibs)

I think thats how it works here but I am not sure

No value whatsoever is being created thru anything we just discussed, only shifted around in what could reasonably be labeled theft / fraud.

If banks print money and end up holding a larger total percentage of the money supply after their dealings, then they have effectively stolen value from everyone else holding on to the currency.

what is driving this?

I'm 30 and never worked.

Don't claim welfare, though.

Well archctually...
When you print money you are effectively taxing the moneyholders without taxing them directly

Different attitudes towards production and work. People don't get taxed on paychecks and profits etc.

The current tax system is 100 years old when 60% were farmers. Now everyone is dependent on anyone.

The left needs votes. White people vote less and less, and not for them. So they need immigrants, dumb ones that they can easily manipulated. They attract them with the promis of free shit, then they allow them to bring back their families. Whenever there is an election, they just have to promise some more free shit and more immigration to get the brown and black vote.
That's the point of welfare, and it provides a lot to the state, as in a totalitarian institution that only exists to benefit itself, on the back of the poeple.

Honestly? The cuckservatives, it wasn't like that before they were in power.

I know here in the States they've tried to pass law to make Welfare recipients take drug test. However, there was a hug outcry, and backlash from those on Welfare.

It sounds reasonable to me.

What do welfare recipients and porn stars have in common?
They both get paid to fuck.

Please do list those that do not require 1-2 years experience and actually pay you rather than just being extended slave labour.

Because we didn't have this shitty refugee influx.

Don't blame them for a war they didn't start.

>Because we didn't have this shitty refugee influx.

Where the fuck do you live user?

We didn't have all the "refugees" coming over untill labour fucked the middle east. They used it as an excuse.

Theimiigints we had before then were great and wanted to work.

Question was not answered, where do you live?

A majority of 'great' britain is covered in refugees and islamic groups constantly promote islam in every city centre.

It's getting trialled here for people on a particular benefit (called newstart, which is separate from disability payments).

Long term welfare recipients are case managed i.e. a beaurocrat farms their job seeking out to an agency so the seeker can't just apply and refuse jobs indefinitely. The Agency will accept interviews or positions and gains funding for closing out cases - its s big industry in its own right. If the job seeker is still not getting employed, they're going to be drug tested as well in the trial.

I 100% agree. Everyone on government assistant should be employed by the government. Whether it's answering phones, cleaning toilets, data entry etc. - if you get something you give something. It would make people feel better and provide social/job skills too. Instead, we just give out things to shut them up and pray we don't have to I gets to with them further.

Northwest, lancs

Exactly, this new wave of migrants is nothing like the old ones. Some are not trying to intergrate and instead push their shite onto us.

But a massive issue is that if they claim refugree status, they arn't allowed to work.

You're an idiot who doesn't know what the true purpose of welfare is.

This isn't a program to benefit the people on it. It's to give them enough money for food and living expenses so they don't steal everything in sight. It has nothing to do with "welfare" and has a lot to do with keeping the majority of the poor from committing crimes.

Ask your self what is more costly? Giving food and housing to poor. Or 15+% (fair guesstimation, 15.1% is below the poverty line in US) of your population stealing robbing looting and causing havoc. You think the riots were bad in St. Louis? Imagine rioting and looting as a necessity for survival.

That is what welfare is for. That is what your Taxes are for. Not some humanitarian effort but a "please don't break and steal shit poor people" tax. you are confused

I don't think that both of your viewpoints are contradictory

yes, that's equivalent to what i said, whoever now holds a larger percentage of the money supply after new money has been printed, has effectively robbed (you said "taxed") everyone else holding the currency

>If you apply for a job through universal job match, which is basically a requirement now
Only if you're a cuck, you're protected by the law to refuse to maintain a social media profile which is basically what this is

Who cares, money-hoarding is killing the economy

Welfare is the legalization of said theft that it is trying to prevent; taxation is the compromise you make, protection money essentially, to prevent said vandalism and rioting, from your point of view at least. There isn't much of a point of setting up shop in the first place though, when taxes, regulations and I could only imagine welfare recipients keep rising so that you will inevitably end up on welfare yourself and no place to spend the welfare money you accrue.

Ontario has a few options. If you have a disability (anything from social anxiety to retardation) you get ODSP which is about $1200 max per month. Then there is "Ontario Works" which is just doublespeak for Ontario Welfare. That isn't as generous as you'd think, but it can cover the rent in shared accommodation units. Then there are tons of other programs to cover everything from food to rental arrears. If you really want to make it on the governments dime be a woman with several children from different fathers. Everyone gets about $1200 per child per year. If you're on ODSP or Ontario Works you get an additional allotment per child. One woman renting from one of my properties brings in about $3600 per month in tax free government aid of all kinds. She has 4 kids and gets child support payments on top of that from all 3 fathers.

In my experience a lot of the people on ODSP (disability) are truly fucked up people that couldn't work. But a lot of them do work cash jobs for extra money (drug dealing is common). So these people aren't necessarily lazy but they like the security of welfare to be able to work when they want to. I've had some guys work for me and at least once a month they would be gone for a week on a bender. Gives me an excuse to never give them a raise though so I don't mind.

UBI would get rid of a lot of bureaucracy, but I don't think it will necessarily help people. I am not sure what the solution is but it's not UBI. If anything it involves fixing our monetary/banking system. The amount we pay to "service debt" i.e. pay interest is staggering and makes our welfare expenses look like a drop in the ocean.