I hate most marxists and I recognize that every communist experiment in the 20th century was a disaster...

I hate most marxists and I recognize that every communist experiment in the 20th century was a disaster, but man oh man was that guy brilliant. I finished reading the first volume of capital yesterday and I've been depressed ever since. Sup Forums would probably like aspects of his work, especially how he wrote about liberal democracy eroding and tainting moral values

he was an idiot philosopher

most of his predictions are empirically wrong

He got automation right.

t. Ancap
Liberalism and capitalism insatiable hunger for profit is what drives a whole ass load of degeneracy. Again, the Soviet union was shit, but it outlawed homosexuality, all drugs, forbade lascivious sexual images in media, etc.

I also concede that Marxist revolutions, especially in Russia, were Jewish dominated at first but after Stalin all traces were gone and jews have completely rallied behind the west

As for being empirically wrong, yes many of his predictions, such as all of Europe becoming Marxist by the end of the 19th century were dead wrong. But how he has analyzed the ways corporations devour themselves is spot on

If he were alive he would probably shitpost on Sup Forums about niggers & jews

>He got automation right.
Unless you're saying that his beliefs on automation will someday be proven right then that is false.

I was saying that his ideas on automation's effect on jobs will eventually be proven right.

he was a decent philosopher.
But I still don't understand why he published a communist manifesto if he believed that communism was a natural consequence of late stage capitalism just like liberalism was a consequence of late stage absolutism. He should've published an Accelerationist manifesto.

Right, so it's another "communism is the future" prophecy that has yet to be proven true.

Choke yourself

What some people seem to preclude from their considerations is the period of time: 2017 is so vastly different from 1917. In 1917 it made sense, you had zero workers rights and sometimes zero human rights depending where you lived, the work was backbreaking, you only got compensated for actual productivity, there was no health insurance or disability compensation. It's a totally attractive idea in that type of climate. But these days even despite wealth disparity and in some cases because of it(*), you get things like comfortable beds in private domiciles, flexible work hours, guaranteed heat and electricity, universal hygiene, comfort, paid time off and paid sick days(*), benefits packages(*), guaranteed healthcare, and so many quality of life amenities that we just take for granted. We've made so much progress it's actually stupid. The fact is that, yes there are still many pitfalls that you can (and many people do) in navigating Western societies, and they're too fucking entitled to exercise due diligence to not accrue $100,000 in humanities education debt, to not max out their credit cards, to not get knocked up, to not get addicted to opioids, to not be irresponsible. It's sickening, their lack of perspective or appreciation.

I feel very similarly, good post

His assumptions about problems were sometimes reasonable. All of his solutions to those problems were retarded.

bump
Yup, He was surrounded by such shit work conditions that he didn't believe they could get better unless the system changed completely. He even said that ideas like disability compensation and health insurance were Utopian. quite ironic actually

Most of Sup Forums never actually read Marx and their understanding of Marxism is based off high school level misconceptions. There is this strange trend of them thinking liberals and communists have anything in common when they're almost opposites.

It's only a temporary boom and we're already seeing the start of a backslide into 1917 conditions, especially with increased automation, neoliberal trade policies, unpaid internships, and cheap migrant labour. Everyone seems to be in debt and paying 50% of the pay for rent. Unions and social welfare programs could only go so far and will ultimately fail since they're really just a burden to a failing economy.

Yeah, a lot of people won't like it but eventually the economy will have to revert to the old laissez faire way of doing things. There's only so much government intervention the economy can handle before it collapses in on itself.

Well, neoliberalism and progressivism have coalesced into one reeking piece of turd. Even people on the left have a hard time distinguishing socialism from neoliberalism.

And communists and (classical) liberals are the exact opposites. Extreme regulation vs. extreme deregulation.

Hopefully.

>school shooting with a Ruger 10/22

>there's a strange trend of them thinking liberals and communists have anything in common when they're actually opposites.

That is because they believe the Cultural Marxism meme and somehow associeate libertarian-identitarian social ideologies with communism

>It's only a temporary boom
Communism will naturally come as the capitalist system crashes on developed countries. people should stop trying to force or predict it as it may take a lot longer than one expects.

Also, communism is not for rural developing nations, USSR was a fucking retarded idea.

His beliefs are founded on the incorrect idea that prehistoric man had no concept of property. He was a well spoken fool.

He also wrote a book about the "Jewish Question" and called a politician a "Jewish nigger"

He'd probably jump off a bridge knowing his writing led to 100 million deaths.

Yeah but I'm saying it's only going to create the conditions that made Marxism appealing again. The vast majority of people do not benefit from laissez faire capitalism and will look for alternatives. Social democracy failed them and communism presents a more permanent solution

You're confusing communism/socialism for social democracy (aka regulated capitalism). They are not the same thing. Marx would still call the latter a bourgeois state.

That's why the USSR and China both had the death tolls they did. Mass conversion of peasants to industrial workers caused famines and civil strife. A communist revolution in a developed industrial country wouldn't be quite as bloody.

what the fuck are you smoking?

I think he was talking about Lassale, kek

Ok now read Mises critique for a full perspective
>muh LTV

>it's only going to create the conditions that made Marxism appealing again
That's true, the lazy and stupid certainly aren't cut out for the free market, but honestly who cares if a couple nations go communist here and there, give 'em a couple decades and they'll be capitalist again.

>The vast majority of people do not benefit from laissez faire capitalism and will look for alternatives. Social democracy failed them and communism presents a more permanent solution
You are completely delusional holy shit, communism will not work, will never work, it's only a permanent solution for the "problem" of having people having food to eat

Brilliant in what sense? That he pointed his finger and showed issues with capitalist liberal democracies? It doesn't take a fucking genius to figure out that working class people lived like shit during the industrial revolution or that too much freedom without responsibility leads to moral degeneration.

He's an idiot for thinking the way to solve these problems is through utopic bullshit that goes against the very nature of humanity. Any philosopher that starts with an a priori assumption that man is a blank slate is fucking moron.

Capital and property aren't synonymous.

It'll be the entire working class which you'll be dealing with, not just the 'lazy and stupid'. History isn't necessarily cyclical. Once people have experienced their quality of life dropping and the volatile nature of social welfare they may take communism more seriously.

1 billion people suffer from hunger as we speak, that's not communism's fault.

You are surprised he laid out the game plan libtards are following to this day?

I'm aware of the fact that social democracy is not the same as communism. Although I concede I don't know what is the exact difference between democratic socialism and social democracy itself. What I meant was that neoliberalism has become so interventionist that it's hard for some people to distinguish progressivism from neoliberalism and vice versa.

Guess who never bothered to understand the connection between neoMarxism and Postmodernist thought.

You did!
You fucking idiot.

I am full capitalist (for the next 50~100 years). Only nations that develop capitalism to it's maximum will be able to have a successful communist revolution far in the future.

>won't someone think of the proletariats

Social Darwinism will take care of them.

they are both materialist and objetivist, but marxism carry it too far.
the main difference is that in communism the state, representing in theory the interest of the proletariat, will own private enterprises and organizate it as they want to gain certain political focuses, while in capitalism is the fucking same, the vast majority of the means of production are owned by a small lobby of prestamist and bankers, and they organize their capital and means of production to gain certain political.social and economic focus (the jewry mainly) while national socialist allow you to own your enterprises following that what the state wants in order to pursue certain focuses

Must be getting pretty boring on /leftypol/ with all that trap porn and discussions on egalitarianism.

>It'll be the entire working class which you'll be dealing with
Most of the working class has nothing to gain from a communist revolution, especially once the government programs start going away.

That's pure speculation and a vehement denial of human nature as well as the ignorance of historical precedence.

>ITT retards who think Das Capital is a how to communism 101 manual
Capital is a work that examines the 19th century economical conditions, %95 of the work is as such, the solution part is very very vauge and boils down to "well this will change in the future".

The real how to get revolution manual is the writings of Lenin. You really can appreciate the work of marx without subscring to the communist ideology.

Did Marx have some scientific works that he cited to come to his, mostly philosophical and erroneous, conclusions?

This much for sure. The Socialists have spent all the OPM there is for now.

Also alienation. We are alienated as fuck.

The irony being that once they have fully developed capitalism there would be no reason nor motive to have a communist revolution.

Whatever the fuck that means...

>The theoretic basis of alienation, within the capitalist mode of production, is that the worker invariably loses the ability to determine life and destiny, when deprived of the right to think (conceive) of themselves as the director of their own actions; to determine the character of said actions; to define relationships with other people; and to own those items of value from goods and services, produced by their own labour. Although the worker is an autonomous, self-realized human being, as an economic entity, this worker is directed to goals and diverted to activities that are dictated by the bourgeoisie, who own the means of production, in order to extract from the worker the maximum amount of surplus value, in the course of business competition among industrialists.

But the theory of alienation goes beyond that. Bourgeois can also feel alienated.

Daily reminder if you live in a Democracy, Socialists and Communists will take over the media and education system to pave way for the revolution.

Also, Marx was right about commodity fetishism and us being unable to stop enormous capital wealth accumulation in the hands of private individuals.

>the worker invariably loses the ability to determine life and destiny, when deprived of the right to think (conceive) of themselves as the director of their own actions

Funny, sounds a lot like communism to me.

no its still retarded

Fuck off back to /leftypol/

SAGE

>muh alienation
biggest scam in philosophical history. Do you know what most human "work" has consisted of for the past 30,000 years? Farming and ranching 12-14 hours a day. Labor is not fun, never was, and probably never will be, since it is providing an actually useful service, not some shitty music or art or whatever would actually make you enjoy it.

Humans need to learn from a young age to delay gratification. Delayed gratification ability leads to happiness and productivity and was essential for most of our evolution. If you can delay gratification and learn to enjoy the job you're doing you would see how retarded it is to place some emphasis "alienation", in favor of the common good (productivity of useful things).

Lenin was a product of impatience.

Marxist-Socialists had waited, and waited, and waited for that proletariat uprising that never came. So he opted to force a revolution in the form of a coup. It abandoned the idea of a grass-roots revolution brought on by oppression of the proletariat class and instead created a strong dictatorship that ruled with an iron fist over the remnants of feudalist Russia.

Marx was fundamentally wrong on so many of his predictions that it's no wonder that it was a disaster when put into practice.

The lives of the working class improved, and still improve today under capitalist society.

Anyone who is a self professed communist should be shot, not for "wrong-think" but for the greater good of the world in order to avoid another communist disaster.

Just came here to remind everyone that Karl was a literal nobody who had shoddy ideas that've lead to the deaths of over a hundred million people.

Profit is only needed for growth, infinite growth is not possible. make your own conclusion. this is not the reason why communism will happen but it proves capitalism can't last forever

Marx was brilliant... for his day* when the industrial revolution was fresh and life was rapidly changing. His economic deterministic stance was more relevant in his day but that doesnt make him right by any measure.

Anyone who is a marxist currently (or even 2 decades after his works were published and wholly refuted) is a fucking idiot and needs to be ground up while still alive and put to use fertilising some pioneering capitalist farmer's fields

Marx was right, anclaps are retards.

Speak for yourself, Comrade Cuccboi.

why cant infinite growth happen? are you a theoretical physisis now