Why would communism fail economically?

I don't know much about economics, if any of you fags know more I just wanna educate myself on why would it fail. Also, been arguing with a lot of commies lately, so I will need your help Sup Forums. Thansk in advance!

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youtube.com/watch?v=g3aeDQwOSSs
youtube.com/watch?v=LrzKDKPvg4Y
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There is no economy without possession.

Everybody makes same money comrade! You can be doctor or shit shoveler and you get same government housing! How could it not work?

There's zero profit incentive. Without incentive, quality decreases. That's just a basic reason as to why it won't work. There's plenty of other reasons too.

According to their mindless babbling workers posses everything.

So then what reason should I be a doctor when I can just do a minimalist job and live the same life?

>I don't know much about economics
Economics is not real.

Because you run out of people to steal from.

Wanna hear them please. I wanna destroy their stupid dream and make more people who wont fall for jewish lies.

Centralised, planned economies are unable to complete with market economies like the United States which are a hub for innovation and investment.
Planned economies are useless as they are managed by goverment bureaucrats whereas market economies encourage the individual to innovate and follow his dreams.

bump

>I don't know much about economics, if any of you fags know more I just wanna educate myself on why would it fail. Also, been arguing with a lot of commies lately, so I will need your help Sup Forums. Thansk in advance!

All humans lived in communist societies 10,000 years ago. They did so back to the time cave paintings were made 50,000 years ago and before that.

Only over the last few decades has civilization impinged on the few remaining communist hunter gatherer bands. Like the ones just massacred in the Amazon by gold miners.

Insofar as modern communist parties - the Soviet Union was a model of economic success under Stalin. The Russian economy grew enormously from 1927 to 1953. While Europe and the US were enmeshed in the depression, US and European firms and workers moved to the USSR to get work.

Of course after Stalin died, Khruschev announced that they would be spending less money on capital infrastructure and economic growth. That was the dawn of the slow, failing Soviet economy that is talked about nowadays.

Also the Chinese economy made great strides under Mao from 1949 to 1976. It was the foundation upon which the modern Chinese economy was built.

In USSR manual workers actually had higher wages than what you would consider white collars. Only for about a decade after the war they had a system where if an engineer was making an improvement to a design he would get a share of saved money but then it was abolished as anti-revolutionary and that was it.

Communism fails because it eliminates losses, which tells business what to stop doing. This is much less efficient and effective that capitalism's profit & loss system.

>All humans lived in communist societies 10,000 years ago
>Soviet Union was a model of economic success
>Russian economy grew
Chinese economy made great strides under Mao
laughingwhores.jpg

>bird eats seed
>mao orders to kill birds
>parasites eat food
>mass starvation

Ask them to name a single communist country that didn't have food shortages.

you don't need to know much about economics to know that people are inherently lazy

I am from ex commie country, never had a single shortage...so no.

It will come out of the goodness of your heart.

Take econ101

name a time during global capitalism that hasn't had mass starvations

>Sup Forums hates kikes
>Sup Forums believes that kikes control the financial world
>there is an ideology that agrees with Sup Forums and believes that (((individuals))) should not possess so much money
>but Sup Forums proceeds to hate it for some (((unknown))) reason while going through lengthy debates to defend the very same system that is supposedly fully controlled by kikes by telling everyone that the system which can get rid of them is more controlled by kikes while electing a capitalist billionaire president at the same time who openly lied to the goym and whose entire future genetic heritage is actual kikes while also being one of the most pro-Israel presidents in history

What did Sup Forums mean by this? Why is Sup Forums trying so hard to be the great goy golem that defends the kikes and their billionaire positions?

Hardmode: Africa doesn't count

Modern day communists seek to own the means of production but they're not willing to produce. They are anti-labor and wish to steal the labor of people who actually would produce. The irony is that they think they're somehow better than people who capitalize off of the proletariat's surplus labor.

>why does Sup Forums hate this Jewish ideology formed and propagated by Jews, which is agitated for and instigated by Jews, and primarily benefits Jews?

>>why does Sup Forums hate this Jewish ideology formed and propagated by Jews, which is agitated for and instigated by Jews, and primarily benefits Jews?
The Soviet Union was completely opposed to the JewSA and Israel, and also collapsed because of those very same capitalist jews. The current China is fully Asiatic and doesn't have the SLIGHTEST jewish influence in their communist ideology

What the fuck are you talking about you stupid goym?

most commies are useful idiots to the elite/jews and are too stupid to realize it

Communism is just a cult. They think they have all the answers and are ethically superior, but they are actually brainwashed idiots. That's all you need to know.

>All humans lived in communist societies 10,000 years ago
False, you can't honestly believe that the idea of private property has not been around for as long as man has been around.

Don't forget about the time they melted all the farm workers tools to make iron.

Just because they opposed religious societies at the time doesn't negate the fact that communism was founded by Jews.

A successful economic system punishes lack of productivity and rewards productivity.

People are generally stupid, lazy, and selfish. Without incentive to go against these qualities, many otherwise useful members of society would not contribute much of anything.

>Current china is communist
kek

The USSR had well known, and well document Jewish death squads. Marx and Engels were both known Jews.
> China is fully Asiatic and doesn't have the SLIGHTEST jewish influence in their communist ideology
China is communist (for the sake of this argument). Communism is Jewish. Therefor China is influenced by Jews.

Also China isn't really communist anymore.

all elites around the world are sockpuppets controlled by aliens

If "everyone owns everything", does anyone own anything? :thinking:

>Just because they opposed religious societies at the time doesn't negate the fact that communism was founded by Jews.
Typical uncultured goy who has been led to believe that communism is the enemy, while the jews remain in their comfy positions and use you as the golem to protect their own pockets from communism.

Communism actually originates from the French Revolution and is an extension to it, which originates from the Enlightenment and anti-establishment revolt against the aristocracy and the church. Marx simply added the "muh money" part to it and called it communism, but it is not a jewish invention at all. It's a white European invention supposed to solve white European problems, and there is a reason why almost all jews got mass-purged from the Soviet Union after the war

>"umm dude china wasn't real communism haha"
You sound exactly like the commies you hate so much

>Therefor China is influenced by Jews.
no its not
>Communism is Jewish
no its not, see above

Gee I wonder why, maybe the fact that its a utopian system build on a false assumptions about the nature of man has something to do with it.

You know that nazism (Sup Forums's favorite ideology) comes from national-SOCIALISM, right? As in - not national-capitalist.

Very easy, it would fail because state direction of the economy (inherent in all forms of socialism and communism) cannot produce results even remotely equivalent or as efficient as that of the free market.

Watch in this order:

1. youtube.com/watch?v=6FEN2sgz0Lg
2. youtube.com/watch?v=g3aeDQwOSSs
3. youtube.com/watch?v=LrzKDKPvg4Y
4. youtube.com/watch?v=A_4U0TuF6WM

If you aren't FUCKING ABSOLUTELY RETARDED, all should be very clear after this, and you will realize that communism/socialism is a compete failure.

What the above fail to mention as well, is that communism/socialism, inevitably results in gradual reduction in individual personal liberties over time. It can only restrict liberties to try and fix its inherent problems, which it is simply unable to do, hence the problems are exacerbated and freedom is commensurately reduced.

This is not complex, share the news, and end this commie fucking idiocy now.

Umm sweetie, we solve that problem by killing all the people who have the incorrect nature.

>Communism
>French Revolution
>Enlightenment
>anti-establishment revolt against the aristocracy and the church
These were all terrible, terrible things. Fuck off Chaim.

And how has communism worked out for Europe then? It failed.

Secondly, you and I both know that China isn't communist. They have a free market economy. They've had that for decades. The ruling party is the communist party but they don't implement any actual communist policies. For the most part it's simply state capitalism.

Communism forces people to achieve equally and will take away from those who excel instead of punishing those who don't even try.
russiapedia.rt.com/of-russian-origin/collectivization/

Also read Basic Economics by Sowell. It's so easy to understand that even a retard should be able to understand it.

Sadly I think Communist ideologues are dumber than retards. Their ideology doesn't allow them to even comprehend things like a normal reasonable (rational) person.

Because Communism is, at it's core, a paradox. It's end goals for a stateless, moneyless, and classless society are in direct opposition to their founding principle: "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need.". This idea of resource management is utterly impossible without a bureaucracy of monolithic proportions and any communist that says a pure democracy will be sufficient is either lying to you, retarded, or both.

China is simply not a communist country.

If you care to dispute this, explain their economy and how you consider it to be communist.

>the idea of private property

What is private property to a band of nomadic hunter-gatherers? Their stone tools? Their pit fire pottery? This was a nomadic culture that carried their tools on their backs. The concept of someone having property that was not possession was definitely something beyond their understanding. Thus they did not have property.

Tell us again how the Soviets were the evil ones.

It hasn't, private property is not that old an invention, and was even more recently applied to all the lands in for example Europe. Look up the exclusion acts,

Well said, they are rationally/logically retarded. Their entire world view is based off of emotion and ABSOLUTE failure to think critically.

Wanna know one of the Achilles heels for Communism?
Fashion.
Everyone wants a certain style of boots, Government makes them, gives boots to citizens, boots are out of style and citizens don't want
This literally accelerated the downfall of the Soviet Union.
Communism doesn't account for the fact that ppl, in some capacity, are consumers. Consumers follow trends. The free market is the best system for addressing those wants.

>These were all terrible, terrible things.
Yeah that's right, I'd rather be ruled by an absolutely corrupt clergy that is more capitalist and obsessed with money than the fucking merchants in my town, while having some pompous aristocratic genetically-flawed inbred underclass dictate what I'm supposed to do and behead me if I even dare question it

great fucking goy

>And how has communism worked out for Europe then? It failed.
It never spread into Europe because your great goyim military prevented it from doing so. Thanks to you, jews remained well and alive in the USA and now control the world

>Secondly, you and I both know that China isn't communist. They have a free market economy.
Literally not true. They just banned cryptocurrencies because its a symbol of extreme capitalism

See above. It is also controlled by the state and foreign "free market" interventions under the form of investments are pretty much impossible. It's all controlled by Chinese people by Chinese people and there's not a single jewish CEO there

>by Chinese people by Chinese
by Chinese people for Chinese people*, much like what Hitler intended to do

Because there's no incentive to work you stupid fuck

>Never spread into Europe
>What is the Communist Bloc

China is free market. You can literally start your own business, and they have billionaires. Does that really sound like a communist country?

Thanks guys! I hope I can show the truth to a lot of the retards I am speaking with.

>Communism is Jewish
>no its not, see above

Communism was Jewish and Anti-Christian in the beginning.

The billionaires are not the free market capitalists like in the west. They don't buy mansions and they don't buy yachts, they're simply allowed to have administration over their massive capital much like a president is allowed to administer the nation. You will never see a Chinese billionaire live as irresponsibly as those in the west because he'd probably get either lynched by a mob or jailed by the government for being such a pompous faggot and misusing the people's resources in such a dumb egotistical way

Why is Sup Forums so hostile to commies?

I met some while snorkeling deep on the sea near Chile and they were all pretty calm and chill, floating dead down there. They pretty much did nothing and harmed nobody, fed the fish, decorated the fauna. They aren't so bad when you find them on their natural enviorment.

Incentives...or lack thereof

It's simple, without value production becomes inefficient, inefficiency bring wasted resources, wasted resources leads to the inability to produce valuable commodities.

The largest part of the Chinese economy is essentially given free reign without bullshit regulation and intervention by government. Certain areas do involve some state intervention. However, at the lowest micro level, and in the vast majority of scenarios, China is capitalist.

It is still a shit system, because the state is involved in the economy, but it doesn't have massive crippling bullshit regulation and government meddling across small business, AND large businesses, as in the US, for example.

>but if there's no money, HOW WILL I BUY STUFF?

All you need to understand is that those who believe in that ideology are either champagne drinking idealists or deadbeat losers that failed in a Capitalist society and they want the rules changed to adapt to their failures instead of manning up, taking responsibility and working past their failures.

Socialism (all branches) and Communism are nothing more than slave control and exploitation of human vices under the false guise of good intentions.

Let us see

Western capitalist Europe : Immigrants niggers poos and anything in between.

Eastern former communist Europe: none of that shit


Thank you Capitalism for the jihadiblackpoos.

It's also worth noting that Communism is built upon the premise that the natural conditions of life and survival are evil and caused by capitalism, so if you replace capitalism, the evil will dissappear.
They fail to realize the evil is actually the conditions meant for survival.
A system which does not take the conditions of life and actions of humans into account is doomed to fail no matter how logically sound it may be on paper.

actually capitalists are the idealists. marxists use dialectic materialism which is based on logic and reasoning, not faith or beliefs, which is entirely what the market is based on. value is subjective

Gorbachev was quoted asking the PM of Britain at the time
"How do you see to it that your people are fed?"
To which she obviously replied "I don't need to, they do it themselves".

and yet the state is controlled by capitalists who give corporations subsidies.

>

Mutual Aid: A Factor of Evolution. read it.

>Yeah that's right, I'd rather be ruled...
I'm not saying it was perfect. I'm saying there is no good reason to think that liberal democracy is morally superior to, or more efficient, than Monarchism or Clericalism.

Communism is absolute shit, if your work has no reward at all, would you want to give your work your best?

The issue is how do you figure out "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need"? It turns out this is problem isn't only impossible to solve, it actually kills communism. It's impossible to take from each according to his ability through means like gulags, it's not proper motivation. It's impossible for a central planning committee alone to determine what society will need in the future.

An economy cannot be completely planned, it's too large of a computational problem. Nor can a market be completely free, which is a meme, and true free markets have never existed except for short periods of time. Truly free markets are easily exploited by both internal threats and external threats in regards to monopolisation. A planned economy with free market elements is the only non-meme way to run an economy.

Generally if you're arguing with communists you're wasting your time because communism failed so spectacularly that it's never going to come back as an economic system. However, if you actually want to argue with them, you need to learn economics and read books like Das Kapital by Karl Marx. Otherwise you're just a retard debating retards for fun. If you can win an argument against communist economics without reading a somewhat serious economic text written by a communist, you're basically only winning an argument on the merit of yourself arguing with people even stupider and more ignorant than you are.

You should be more concerned with ideas like social liberalism, the Nordic model to run an economy with pro-corporate policies and high personal tax rates. Income inequality as measured through the gini coefficient highly tracks criminality and societal decay as well, relatively socialistic countries have lower gini coefficients, and one also needs to explain why exactly it's not worth adopting a socialistic model to prevent inequality, or why a socialistic model won't prevent inequality despite what happened in the Nordic countries.

That was one of the most retarded things I have ever had the misfortune of reading. You have no idea what the fuck you are talking about. Kill yourself.

Eternal. Worthy Resolution.

kill all communists. if someone is a red sympathizer its your duty as a human to kill them.

Nice trips but jews made communism too , faggot

false. nazis were right wing and fascists. fascists are right wing. they were allied with mussolini who was GIVEN power by the king of italy. no revolution there.

the nazi war machine owed its existence to U.S. corporations
the nazis targetted minorities, which means they were not seeking to be a collective
the nazis targetted minorities, which means they were more interested in identity politics instead of class consciousness
the nazis privatized resources
the nazis murdered communists and socialists in the concentration camps
the brownshirts murdered socialists in the streets in the 1930s

>Wang Jianlin
The Chinese government isn't going to punish someone for buying too many things. Have you ever actually lived in China?

Capitalists labor to possibly improve themselves and standard of living. Communists labor to enrich a ruling elite cabal with the laborers having no possibility of improving themselves or their standard of living. They also labor because they have to under threat of force, ie: soft-slavery. You can attempt to argue capitalism has soft-slavery, but you'd be wrong. In pure capitalism, if you don't work you starve. In pure communism, if you don't work, you're put in a camp and forced to, usually until you starve. You have the choice to fail in a capitalist society, whereas you have no choice in a communist society. The rewards of participating in a communist economy are also non-existent, leading the axiom "We pretend to work and they pretend to pay us" to be true. Why excel at any one profession or industry when those who don't bother are rewarded equally to you? This is the root cause of all communist economic collapse, which will always be repeatable and cannot be fixed due to the inherent flaw of communist theory: It leads to stagnation and injustice. Minimum rewards result in minimum effort, and since communist regimes are always hostile to their own people, minimum effort results in collapse and bloodshed.

Communism removes the impetus to work and replaces it with a gun barrel. Thus, communist governments, who claim to represent the people, invariably become the enemy of the people and seal their own fate.

You know how in Christianity its a sin to have sex before marriage? Communism is like a religion where most of the tenants are regularly broken.

fascism is a method not an ideology.

It isnt circular logic. If there is no incentive go excel, nobody will excel. Especially if doing so will result in your land being taken away and you being sent to the gulag.

Have you ever thought to think that the reason why immigrants go to western Europe is because the economic prosperity is much better than the east?

Materialism and Impirio-Criticism by Lenin. read it. you are the idealists, not leftists

>Hayek, who proposed a guaranteed income for everyone, he just called it a negative tax instead

i mispelled it. "Materialism and Empirio-Criticism"

If you want to see the meracle of soviet economics though, I would highly suggest looking at a map of global GDP and comparing Warsaw Pact countries to NATO countries and seeing who did better. Protip - not the Warsaw Pact countries. East Germany vs West Germany is also illustrative.

Communisms eventual collapse was due to the fact it was engaged in a military standoff with the capitalist world yet was unable to actually match it economically. While war gets a bad rap, one of the things it does do is caused superior societies to destroy inferior societies. Societies that don't advance so they can LARP about being a united proletariat way better than the capitalist hordes eventually fail. Every era has had its luddites trying to resist progress and maintain a superior way of life, and they always get crushed in the end.

>if it's not totally free market capitalism then it's fucking communism lmao
>yeah but the capitalist billionaires don't live irresponsibly though
Just stop.

There is also the problem of not having quantifiable metrics for "ability" and "need", making the idea of Communism even more laughable.

Because you can't tell people what they're allowed to want and what not.

it absolutely is circular logic.

>pinkos
that term actually comes from pinkerton, the group of agent provocateurs hired by corporations to spy on socialists and unions. they employed false flag attacks and bombed shit so they could frame their bosses' political adversaries

take econ 501

because communism fucktardry goes against all that is most naturally Human :
1) self ownership: no one should force you into anything against your will
2) material ownership: an extension of the former, since what you own, you spent part of your life earning it, implying that hurting your possessions amounts to hurting you
3) non-aggresion principle: the benefits of those values are to be granted to those granting them back to you

commies believe:
1) the collective is worth more than the individuals it's made of (against self ownership; btw, it also is the most basic definition of fascism)
2) material ownership doesn't exist (expected from those animals, since they don't even believe in individuals to start with)

thus, 3) implies they deserve total extermination

Fanfuckingtastic

>You will never see a Chinese billionaire live as irresponsibly as those in the west

You are fucking delusional as somebody who has to interact with Chinese billionaires and especially Chinese Billionaires Hellspawn. They are fucking new money as fuck and cannot be rich respectably. Their society is also generally more rewarding of corruption because success is much more tied to how the state treats you in China.

actually leftists are murdered and death squadded by capitalists. the CIA helped Saddam Hussein gain power because his political opponents were leftists. the u.s. military works with the kurds but are not on the kurds side because the kurds are leftists. look up the history of the CIA. it's not leftist economies failing, it's left wing economies being hijacked or destroyed by capitalists. or making sure that psychos like pol pot are successful at being psychos