Haruhi

Re-watching this movie and shows so many plot holes that it hurts.

Such as? I'm interested to hear it, user.

I'll put some holes in you if you ever bad-mouth Haruhi again, buddy.

Well, nothing is really perfect just great.

Mostly the time travel shit and the fact that there is only one work in one space time continuum.

world*

>that there is only one world in one space time continuum.
I fail to see the issue there. I agree that the time travel stuff is a touch wonky in places, but the rules of this setting are basically being created by an imaginative 16 year old girl so I can swallow that a little more easily than some IPs.

It's that kind of show that you have to turn off your brain to watch and enjoy it,

Haruhi is utter shit.
Other characters were nice and enjoyable, but she was shit. The move was so good in comparison to main series because there was so little of Haruhi.

>Enjoying the movie more because the character in the title is most of the time no preset.

But Haruhi is top tier.

haruhi is garbage, literally newfag first harem romcom

If you take the movie as a journey of Kyon's discovery of why he sticks around with the club and finds his purpose in it, it's a pretty good movie.

The time travel and character interactions are icing on the cake of the grand adventure.

You even get some development into some of the side cast (namely Itsuki and Nagato) and how they feel about their positions in Haruhi's world (Itsuki being jealous of not bringing out the fun in Haruhi since he loves her, Nagato getting tired of all the craziness she has to put up with despite bring programmed to not express emotion resulting with what happens in the movie).

Add some nice animation to that and you've got yourself a classic in my opinion.

That's just anime in general

>harem romcom
Whipping out the big guns already?

She is an arrogant cunt pandering to pathetic masochistic betas.
She deserved Kyon's punch.

It isn't, and complaining about physics that are not even real can't be considered a "lot of plotholes" unless you prove it's inconsistent.
I guess you're just trying to hate a movie because it's popular.

She deserves Kyon's dick.

Has it occurred to you that the entire premise of the movie is 'oh god Haruhi is gone and I want her back'? Because that's pretty much the core conflict and it doesn't seem compatible with not liking her.

>plot holes
IT'S CALLED A FUCKING PLOT DEVICE.

Yes user, because it's the true alphas that want submissive spineless sluts.

I don't care it's about bringing Haruhi back. I'm just happy there wasn't during most the movie I didn't had to see Haruhi being a annoying dick to everyone around with no consequences.

>submissive spineless sluts
I honestly don't know who would find Mikuru interesting, but it surely wouldn't be true alpha.

But Haruhi is around for a good chunk of the movie, even if it's not the normal one.

She is nowhere near as irritating as in main series.

user, put those goalposts down for a second.

Haruhi is one of the best characters ever.

She's fantastic. I appreciate how she's not perfect and actually develops over the course of the series. Two things most shows copying her fail to do.

Those aren't plot holes, user. If time travel exists in a series, then you automatically have to accept that paradoxes can't happen for some utterly inane reason, because that's literally part and parcel with time travel itself.

You could make the exact same complaint about Steins;Gate

You can apply that to everything and it will suddenly be good.

>Sword Art Online isn't bad you just have to turn your brain off to enjoy it

The difference is that you're not judging it from its own writing you're judging it from a comparison with "reality".

This type of issue happens to everyone who worships "realism".

>Steins;Gate
Steins;Gate clearly explain how it jumps from one time linen to another and creates new ones,

In Haruhi it was clearly stated that there is only one timeline and it was the one that was changed.

In Haruhi they explain how the 2 timelines work.

I don't give a shit about realism, the important thing is logic/consistency.

You haven't explained how it is inconsistent. You just pointed at "time travel" and scoffed at it.

Didn't they say Nagato just changed everyone's memories and position of things around, ergo when Kyon wakes up, that is when the world is back to normal and everything that happened before that was in the other world.

I think that's the gist of it. The AU only existed from the moment she created it, it didn't retroactively change events. That's why there was still an alien Nagato in the past to help them.

Isn't the time travel being contradictory intentional?
When Mikuru explains how the Time Plane Destruction Device works she says the events are predetermined the same way as a film reel goes, and TPDD only superimposes a new something over an existing frame of time, but at some point Kyon's actions actually change the outcome of the future? I don't exactly remember when the latter happens though.

That wasn't me.

I just said that "if you turn your brain off it's enjoyable" is a shitty argument.

It was stated a lot of time that there is only one time line. Then how can the past, present and future exist at the same time.

I want to fill movie-Haruhi's plot holes

Well I didn't turn off my brain for the movie and I enjoyed it.

I get what you're saying but I also get that some people can get overly critical up to a point where the standards are being held for their own purpose and no longer have any relations as to whether or not one enjoys a show or not. Like a checkbox of good taste or something.

She's an absolute angel in the film, both timelines.

Well the movie is post-nearly getting hit in the face, she's only getting better from then on

I wonder how badly the universe's ass would've been fractured if he landed that hit.

How does timeline not include the past and future?

Who decided god had to be so hot?

Dunno but I'd like to shake their hand

Dude missed the plot holes about how a 16 year old girl controls the universe, a 3 year old created entity can warp reality, some kid can turn in to light and shit, and a 16 year old time traveling girl with titties that big

How are any of these plot holes?

Even a shitty spinoff trying to push her out of her own series can't keep that body down.

Unless you're God who have seen the beginning and the end of the universe, that is not a plot hole.
Also, don't be a secondary.

3/4 series was about a guy who grumbled and complained that his life sucked and could be better then finally he got what he wanted. He finally realized his life was great and he really like his friends and would change the universe to get back that world that caused him so much troubles.

Basically, the is comparing to a lot of young peoples life. This is an example but, you probably bitched and moaned about school or work or whatever but when you had to leave, you wish you could go back. This move is an allegory for just enjoy your life while you can and cherish...something... you know what I mean.

You are just a literal retard if you cant see that.

That the point. I was repeating the same logic OP was using. As you can see it is flawed.

I'm well aware that this is where the movie was going thematically, I was just talking about it in a more literal sense to make a point for that user.

Do you think that maybe she did it herself? It's possible that she was plain as hell before gaining her abilities.

Her other self in the alternate timeline from the movie doesn't have any special abilities but looks the same

But that was a timeline specifically crafted by Nagato, it may well not be representative of a world where Haruhi never got her powers.

What's the best pair and why is it Koizumi x Kyouko?

I guess we'll never know. It's entirely possible

Nagato made Haruhi best girl in her own universe. I guess that settles it then.

To claim that anything related to time travel is a plot hole is to claim that you have figured out how time travelling and the fabric of reality works.

Even funneling her off to another school couldn't keep her down.

I feel that more shows need tsun men.

She might've been borrowing Haruhi's powers but she was limited by her own imagination.

I haven't read the books yet. But I remember a lot of people saying that there are hints of Kyon actually being the god and not Haruhi.

How do they re-conciliate that with how Nagato used Haruhi's powers to make a universe? Do they think she accidentally used Kyon's without realizing it?

When is the new season coming out ?

Very good question. It's possible that maybe Kyon is the source of the power but he inadvertently has given it to Haruhi in much the same way that Haruhi unintentionally created aliens, ESP users and time travelers.

Sooner than you'd think, but longer than you'd hope.

To be honest time travel itself is a "plot hole" as you say. It's not totally understood and the components of time travel are logically inconsistent and contradictory to the laws in existence today. So we can't really say that this plot device is a hole in the movie.

How is it a plot hole?

Haruhi is legitimately science fiction. There's nothing in it any less plausible than FTL, which is ubiquitous in all but the hardest SF.

In stories, plot holes are logical inconsistencies that include illogical events that contradict earlier events. So I'm just comparing time travel (I would assume backward in time was the argument) to plot holes; time travel back in time is considered impossible and it contradicts current laws of nature.

But time travelling is an established thing in that universe as we see with Mikuru. And Nagato explains how she did what she did.

What you're describing is "not trying to imitate real life". Which is what you'd expect from a world where a high school girl is god.

Yes I understand that time travel is established in Haruhi, but I'm talking how it is understood in real life.

The argument I'm trying to make is that OP can't say that "time travel" in Haruhi is a plot hole because "time travel" is a plot hole itself. He can't argue against something we don't quite comprehend. Sure it's said in Haruhi that time travel is justified as something this/that; however, OP has to remember that this is fictional-meaning that the author has full control of what he wants to define time travel as- and that this take on time travel doesn't have to be truly consistent with other takes on time travel.
OP says here that there is one world in one space time continuum, but do we truly know that is true or not if we ourselves don't understand completely the logic behind time travel? This is why I'm saying that OP can't argue that this is a plot hole since it's generally understood even by physicists today

If you want to argue that the rules or application of time travel within the setting create some kind of contradiction with other elements that is one thing, but time travel is not a plot hole. Time travel is a thing that exists in fiction but not in real life, like a lot of things in fiction.

>it's not generally understood
is what I meant

I'm not sure you're understanding me quite fully, but what you said here
>but time travel is not a plot hole. Time travel is a thing that exists in fiction but not in real life, like a lot of things in fiction
is exactly what I'm trying to argue.

Then it's a plot device. Why are you calling it a plot hole? I think I can kind of see what you're saying now that I read
>So I'm just comparing time travel (I would assume backward in time was the argument) to plot holes; time travel back in time is considered impossible and it contradicts current laws of nature.
again but you've chosen a bizarrely obtuse way of conveying it.

I think I understand now. The wording of my initial argument wasn't so clear, but I was merely comparing time travel to the term "plot hole" in that both are inconsistent/contradictory and impossible. Not arguing that time travel itself IS a plot hole, but that by its definition it is flawed like plot holes. Clearing things up.

I think OP is trying to point out that in the movies it was stated a number of time that they all exist in one space time continuum and if that is the case then why there would be a time traveler at all as it would not make sense if there is time travelers at all. But it's a great show and I love it.

The movie was just a ripoff of End of Evangelion

There only being a single universe doesn't break time travel.

because the goddess Haruhi's will brought the existence of time travelers. also, the time travelers were said to have been unable to access the past of year 0, which is before 3 yrs Tanabata with young Haruhi. so now they apparently think Haruhi is the key to figuring out a solution to that problem.

The hints are all there in the anime.

...

She was charismatic even back then, here are some spoilers.

While my insides were still feeling like jelly, Sasaki said something that broke that stagnant
feeling. Yes, it was a shocking new revelation.
"Suzumiya-san and I went to the same elementary school. While we were always in different
classes, I could always see how that girl lit up the school with a light like she was the sun. Even in a
different class I could feel that light coming from her."
This has got to be a trick. Haruhi and Sasaki met before that time when we met together?
"I had wanted to be in the same class as her, but alas it was never to be. Then when she went to
a different middle school it got to be too complex. I was a bit lonely and a bit relieved at the same time.
Oh, I see she still stares at your eyes with the intensity of the sun. You know that when we part with the
light, we get a little bit colder right? But that's not too bad. Do you understand what I mean Kyon?"

Shit opinion

It's correct though

This so fucking. Haruhi is the worst part of Haruhi.

>much

Now that makes her apparent life in Disappearance even more depressing.

>character has flaws and has to grow out of them
>nuh worst part of the show

does she grow out of it? cause i dropped this fairu early on since it looked like the whole plot involved enabling her to keep the world from ending.

So she actually changes?
Am just curious, it seemed like she always stayed like she is forcing everyone to follow her will and wanting to have fun. A bit egoistical but not malicious.
Still havent read all volumes yet and honestly
stopped caring later and Kyon just seems to fall in love with her denying it somewhat and just starting accept that she gets her way.
Anyway so she really changes, can you tell in what way please?

Did you watch or read it? If you watched it, was it broadcast or chronological order?

Since we're talking about Haruhi as a character, I want to throw in my two cents.

Back when I first watched Haruhi I stuck with the broadcast order of S1 since S2 didn't exist yet. She was a tad self centred and tended to bully others, but ultimately she was just a girl who wanted to make the best of her highschool years. By the end of the series she seemed to have calmed down and consider the feelings of others for a change, especially if you watch S1 in chronological order.

However I feel as if S2 really dampens her character, especially in sighs. She acts like way too much of a bitch, I have no idea what the fuck the author was thinking when he got her to pour scalding tea over Kyons lap, or drug Mikuru with the "Mikuru is my toy!" thing. It's pretty clear why Kyoani didn't adapt these with S1, and I understand that they were supposed to be tipping points for Kyon to get mad and tell her to stop being such a cunt to everyone (which she does) however I think that they went a bit overkill with these tipping points.

Oh well, she's still love in the Disappearance movie.

The additional fuckup is that people often don't know that these "S2" episodes fit somewhere in the middle of "S1"

I agree completely, S2 comes of as really weird. Especially when you consider that Kyon almost punches her in the face a few days before she gets up on stage and performs songs she had an hour to learn to help save the senior year of a few girls she doesn't know but wants to help anyway. And then feels guilty about anyway because she felt she could've done it better.

Sigh was volume 2 so I guess Tanigawa didn't have a clear outline of what to do with her character yet

Sigh is definitely weak at best and absolute shit at worst (the finished movie was funny though)

I admire any show that cold opens on an intentionally awful 20 minute home movie and just expects the audience to go with it . Broadcast order best order.