He saved more people compared to the people he killed

>he saved more people compared to the people he killed.
ARCHER DID NOTHING WRONG.

he slaughtered a bunch of violent Afrikaans dundunuffins. Hes a hero.

Yeah, but the point is that he didn't want to kill people at all, and the more he killed the more he believed that someday he would reach a point when he wouldn't have to kill anyone and that everybody would be happy, but that never happened.

Like Price explained in Extra, humanity must evolve to survive, and humanity can only evolve through war because that force people to go beyond and surpass their limits, hence, wars would never end as long there's humanity in the world.

He trashed Rin's place during his landing. That's not a good thing, considering her money problems.

>humanity can only evolve through war
this meme again

Of course he did nothing wrong.

>he saved more people compared to the people he killed.
But that's simply not true.

He says that he saved thousands by killing 1

He lived his life wrong

Of course he did nothing wrong. He's the planet's agent.

>Yeah, but the point is that he didn't want to kill people at all, and the more he killed the more he believed that someday he would reach a point when he wouldn't have to kill anyone and that everybody would be happy, but that never happened.
This desu. but still, archer dindunuffin.

...

Yeah he's right but the hero of justice thing is still fucking cringey.

Archer best girl

His actions were never wrong. If he'd actually believed in what he was doing instead of clinging to an ideal that was convenient things would be fine.
He thought the right thing to do was something else and he suffered for not seeing that through, no matter how stupid. That is his fate stay night.

This always bothers me. Aren't counter guardian absolute last line of defense for humanity? Why is he killing random admiral ackbars.

Fuck Archer what a savage piece of shit.

We Humans can solve our problems without going through violence.

>false flag baiting TM threads
Why such low hanging fruit

How many brown people did he end up killing, Sup Forums?

How dumb is this guy? People are using violence to kill and injure other people...hmm how about I kill them and insight more violence? Autistic dipshit deserved his fate.

He couldn't save everyone. He failed.

THIS.

am I the only one who likes Archer but hates Shirou?

War is only ever a transitional phase, desu.

>am i the only one who holds this wildly popular opinion
yeah, you're the only one

archer the counter-guardian sacrificing his eternity for the planet sucks. a preteen faggot constantly sperging HERO OF JUSTICE HERO OF JUSTICE HERO OF JUSTICE is a much better character

Humanity isn't heading that way though. Modern society is now leaning towards socialism and automation. Soon enough the trash of society will die out and the only ones left are the elites and quality members of humanity.

lol
swords on the hill stolen from berserk

Doesn't Fate predate Berserk?

Not enough.

He actually is, though.

Archer is just a facet of Shirou. Shirou, overall is a much more nuanced and interesting character.

I will admit though that the most interesting parts of him are directly connected to Archer.

So did Hitler but only Sup Forums says he did nothing wrong.

Double kek
Under the kek

archer cant even save himself

how can does save anyone if you cannot save yourself

>a preteen faggot constantly sperging HERO OF JUSTICE HERO OF JUSTICE HERO OF JUSTICE is a much better character
kek no, this is what I fucking hate about shirou.

Saving is not algebra, you can only do it properly.

He doesn't just moan on about wanting to be a hero. He learns about the risks, the dangers, the weight of following his dream, and through the various routes, comes to understand why he should or shouldn't follow it.

Archer is a great character, but he is intrinsically tied to Shirou and his development. He is Shirou, and Shirou is Archer.

he keeps saying muh "hero of justice" over and over again it's fucking annoying and basically autism.

>lol

Well it's the cornerstone of his character.

The entire point of FSN is basically asking what it means to be a hero.

As well as asking who the best girl is, but we all know that's Rin, so it's more of a non-question.

Archer has few regrets about his life. He hated killing people, but he ultimately understood that his actions were "correct". He was pragmatic, but he saw his ideals through to the end.

The problem was his death. Archer was fundamentally misinformed about what becoming a Counter Guardian actually entailed. He believed that being a Counter Guardian would mean he'd be able to save countless people for all of eternity. What actually happened was that he became a mindless slave to the planet, killing endlessly, forever, without reprieve. He was doomed to see pain, suffering, despair and sadness forever and ever. That's when he snapped and started to curse his ideal. You have to understand that this is a literal ETERNITY of misery. It will never end, never stop. For as long as the universe exists, for as long as the Spiral of Origin exists, Archer is forever doomed to his miserable fate.

So you can see, his despair and anger is justified.

Well, it wasn't Archer who sacrificed his eternity, that was Shirou who ended up making that choice. It's through that choice that he became Archer after countless years as a CG.

And that's why Fate Shirou has it the best. He ends up leading a life that's more or less identical to Archers', but through Saber's example, he learns the folly of giving up his afterlife to his ideal. Fate Shirou follows his ideal through to the end and dies with satisfaction in knowing that he devoted his entire life to a cause he believed in. He doesn't become a Guardian because he knows that he doesn't owe the world that much.

Shirou vs Archer fight doesn't make sense for me.
>Archer: Imma kill you because in the future you'll turn like me. I'll do anything just to erase my existence.
>Shirou: I don't give a shit
>couple of flashbacks
>Archer lets shirou win
>Archer continues being a counter guardian

Well, even Archer knows that there's an extremely low chance that it would work. It's like he said, he was really just venting his frustrations.

In the end, though, none of the Shirous from any of the endings in Fate/stay night become Counter Guardians.

Archer didn't just want to kill Shirou, he wanted to make him admit he was wrong. Admit that his dream was faulty. Show that all the anger and frustration he was feeling was completely vindicated.

Shirou though didn't back down. He saw all the death, all the killing he may very well end up doing, and he accepted it. His dream was still not wrong.

And that made Archer realize maybe he was wrong. Maybe, in his age he had simply become jaded, and that he really did live a life of being a hero without regret.

That's why he lost. He realized the choices Shirou could make, the choices he was making, weren't the mistake he thought they were.

He then goes on to accept his duties as a Counter Guardian as to the best of his ability.

Read the VN. Archer literally states that Shirou made him realize he made the right choice to be a hero, even after the misery of being a CG. Watching and fighting his past self re solidified his motive and ideal.

shit looks like he's on the moon and wtf with the swords.
lel

if you kill someone who might kill two people then you saved more lives than you took

>humanity can only evolve through war
I take issue with this premise of his argument.

Fucking bullshit.

>archer
>uses swords
>"i-it's fine because he shoots them out like arrows!"

Damn, this franchise is fucking retarded.

He also uses regular arrows too.

Sometimes.

But he uses a bow too.

Did you say Hero of Justice? A Hero of Justice is what he wanted to be? I didn't know he wanted to be a Hero of Justice because he barely ever mentioned wanting to be a Hero of Justice. If he did, I must have missed it. Maybe he should have mentioned being Hero of Justice a few more times, because I don't think the show ever really made it all that clear that he wanted to be a Hero of Justice.

Speaking of Hero of Justice, have I told you about Hero of Justice yet. I think that's what that kid wants to be.

P.S.
Hero of Justice
Hero of Justice
Hero of Justice
Hero of Justice
Hero of Justice
Hero of Justice

My point is Archer went all through hardcore shit and then suddenly flip flop cuz his past self didn't gave up.

It's fucking lame..

He was too mesmerized.

Imagine being really passionate about something, but losing that passion as you age. If you were to meet your past self, you might the passion he exudes to be too blinding. That's why Archer lost. He was distracted by Shirou's sheer passion.

Because ultimately, Shirou and Archer are the same person. There is no way that Archer can't feel what Shirou feels. The origins are the same.

>saber
>doesn't use a curved sword

>I'll do anything just to erase my existence.
Archer knows that killing shirou won't change archer's existence. He just wants to shirou to say "Okay I was an idiot"/

>This always bothers me. Aren't counter guardian absolute last line of defense for humanity?

Those are Grand Servants who are individually powerful. Counter Guardians are just janitors.

Re-read UBW and Extra. He was always bitter. The Counter Guardian shit were a realization of how futile everything was.

Kiritsugu doesn't whine or throw as tantrum as counter guardian. Shirou's just a big baby.

So basically nobody on this site?

when will we get a lancer servant that actually uses a lance?

The Heroic Spirits who become Grand Servants are the last line of defense. Compare to them, Counter Guardians are like cannon fodder.

He becomes bitter and cynical, but he himself says that he has no regrets about his life. In Fate/EXTRA, he lacks the cynicism of his Fate/stay night self because as a Servant of the Moon Cell, he doesn't have to spend his eternity killing people endlessly. Archer has no regrets about his actions. He does believe that becoming a Hero of Justice is a silly, childish ideal, but he believe that his actions were ultimately for the best. That being said, if Archer DID have a regret about his life, it's that he wasn't able to truly become a hero like he dreamed. In Fate/EXTRA CCC, he gets an opportunity not just to save the world, but to save a life, no strings attached. It made him happy.

I know that, but Archer still want to give it a try.

>That being said, if Archer DID have a regret about his life, it's that he wasn't able to truly become a hero like he dreamed.
He had other regrets: unable to reach Seiba and save her (he event paused his suicidal mission to try to get her give up her wish) and (in CCC) he wasn't able to save Sakura (or at least he probably left her without knowing her trouble).

Eh, those particular regrets aren't particularly tied to his actions as a hero of justice. Neither the one about Ilya.

Shirou's up there with being one of my favourite characters ever, but I do hate the way he keeps repeating that. I probably wouldn't have a problem with it if they translated it differently.

Isn't there a whole thing about the archer thing being a state of mind or something?

Hi Archer.

arturia alter lancer

From the very start Archer programmed himself to kill shirou and his ideals.

>Imagine being really passionate about something, but losing that passion as you age. If you were to meet your past self, you might the passion he exudes to be too blinding. That's why Archer lost. He was distracted by Shirou's sheer passion.
I think you got it backwards, If my future self told me that I'm wrong I'd probably believe him and move on.

Most would do the same too.

Or you might find yourself disgusted at what you eventually become. Like an artist who finds out his future self is nothing more than a pragmatic sell-out.

I'd probably be pretty mad if my future failure of a self came back in time to teen me and told me to just give up whatever it was I wanted to do.

>mfw you would kill a man to harvest his organs to save 3 accident victims

enjoy failures then.

What is Achaah wearing here?
Did he kill many muslims and fucked every Arabian chick?

SEIGI NO MIKATA

Actually, this is completely true. Archer hasn't done anything wrong, ever. Assuming he acted with the intention of attaining the greatest good for the greatest number, his conscience should be clear.

The problem is that - Like his dad - he doesn't want to accept this as the truth. He wants to make it so that there are no sacrifices. Archer is, to be blunt, throwing a tantrum.

And the thing is, there's no point to what he's doing. I get the feeling that he doesn't really believe his insane plan will work. If he did, he would have just sprinted right for Shirou and cut his head off. Or he'd have blown his house up. It would be easy - There's nothing stopping him from killing Shirou, anyway.

At any rate, he's already sold his soul, so he's already damned. I get the feeling that being constantly teleported to scenes of terror, madness and the worst excesses of humanity would wear down anyone given time. Worse, he's doing it for eternity! He can't even pick and choose, because he'll pop in and out of existence through all of time and space.

Basically, Archer has fucked himself and he cannot unfuck his shit.

I wanna get in the series because of archer.
But every time I watch the first few episode I get annoyed by the MC and that shitty girl.

In a scale to 0 to cuck, how fucked is Canada?

>But every time I watch the first few episode I get annoyed by the MC and that shitty girl.
same here.

Take your off topic shit there.

Didn't Justin drop the People's Elbow on a bitch?

All of them. All of them, through infinity.

I like to think that the world placed Shirou somewhere in Syria, where all those boats loaded with refugees were about to cast off. He fires again and again, each shot turning a ramshackle boat full of human trash into a titanic fireball.

And then he strides off into the night, already called to his next mission. For us, who slumber under the great aegis of civilization, we sleep sounder knowing that someone like him is abroad. Forever defending us, doing the work that we never admit must be done.

I swear that board has become an /mlp/ tier virus

Thats why fate is shit
You cannot save everyone, that was the truth archer learned through his battles, so he saved the ones he chose to save.
But then Nasu went full retarded with his HERO OF JUSTICE, and shirou aspulled after aspull like its nothing, got out of every single clumsiest and dumb mistakes (like charging at invincible enemies without thinking) and then when he sees his wounds magically heal because muh sheath of saber asspull without knowing he just does it again without learning anything and gets out alive.
AND THEN HE BEATS GIL,OH WAIT ITS POSSIBLE BECAUSE REALITY MARBLE
He fucking saved everybody with the power of plot armor and asspulls
What the fuck, its just shitty writing
Fuck this game, its like its written by a teenager.
I dropped it after ubw end because it became so insufferable with him being so obnoxious and the same dialogue being played over and over again

still annoying he sounds like a fucking retard I can't stand that shit.

What a shit MC so is f/sn routes.

You're missing the point, you know.

The point of Fate is that the world is ultimately benevolent. Events conspire to fight the madmen who seek to destroy all of existence. A higher power is ultimately looking out for us. (In fact, the mere existence of Counter-Guardians prove that.)

And at the same time, another prevailing idea is that Man is still great. Sure, we're not in the time of legends anymore, where men bestrode the narrow world like colossi. But the spark of heroism still lingers, and the right man - in the right place, at the right time - can save the god damn world.

Shirou does all the stuff he can because he always had that potential. The seed of greatness was within him. His youthful idealism is worth more than Archer's world-weary, nihilistic cynicism, because even today, right now, there is still hope for man. No matter how dark things get, the human spirit ultimately shines through.

It doesn't matter if you're fighting the First Tyrant, or something so old and abominable it no longer has a name. You can still win, through the invincible spirit of the human soul on fire.

Because Miura is a retard who didn't read the VN.

I just watch f/sn because the side characters are more interesting than the MCs.

What the fuck is this bullshit?

It's the main theme of the show. I mean, we're not being subtle here, they're beating you over the head with the symbolism. It's ultimately an idealistic message.

>he just does it again without learning anything
You mean finally accepting that you can't save everyone but trying regardless because there's value in the attempt? Pay attention next time.
>got out of every single clumsiest and dumb mistakes
>4 good endings in 45 scenarios

Then you should read Hollow Ataraxia.

Its pasta right?
Nowhere did I get the idea that Shirou was the 'chosen one' with all the potential, it seemed like the writer just gave him power up after power up so that he could get out of pinch and beat his opponents no matter how powerful they were
No, I mean shit like going to school without your servant and not sleeping beside them because its too embarassing? What the fuck?
And his "ideal" isnt a good ideal, its retarded, you cannot save everybody if you are not a fictious character written by a shitty writer, and attempting to do so without any power and without applying a fragment of your brain and charging in like a bull is called being retarded and attempting suicide

yeah for some reason ginger kid managed to stab kirei while running like a fucking retard Kiritsugu on the other hand can't slice him not even once.

Shirou = KING OF ASSPULLS and PLOT ARMOR
It's not funny anymore...

Fuck I hate this logic.
No they don't win, as long as you aren't a fucking weak willed pussy who goes 'well I've killed this serial murderer, now I will start shooting up Jaywalkers and litterers'.
There are some people you HAVE to kill.

> and attempting to do so without any power and without applying a fragment of your brain and charging in like a bull is called being retarded and attempting suicide
This
These type of characters always die first if theyre not the mc's

>Shirou = KING OF ASSPULLS and PLOT ARMOR
Thats not how it works, the only reason why it seems like an asspull and plot armor, is because you're reading a VN where you get infinite save points until you reach the outcome.
You are literally reading/watching the only possible circumstance where Shiro managed to reach that outcome.

>muh saber's sheath
>muh reality marble
One of the first fate scenario-
Shirou and co encounters a near invincible foe
Saber goes to fight
Starts losing
Instead of trying to capture the master, he waits and then lunges towards the foe
Gets smashed to death
Still they all get spared because "muh too boring" aka shitty writing
Gets to taken to house
LOL HE DIDNT DIE ACTULLY HE HAS REGENERATION POWERS (TO BE REVEALED HOW LATER™)

ITs explained why it would be safe for him to be out in daylight without his servant, and "power ups" in UBW are a result of coming into contact with his future self, read the VN.
>you cannot save everybody
Which he knows and accepts.
>charging in like a bull is called being retarded and attempting suicide
Exactly. Shirou is lacking in self worth so he charges into situations without regard for his own life, it's pointed out in the text, and he does die in dozens of endings for it.

Shirou does die first, read the VN.