Hi Sup Forums, PizzaMandolino user here.
This is actually happening in Italy. If this law goes on (and it will) we italian will risk a prison sentence (not even a stealing nigger) for being racist IRL (not a problem) or on the internet (fuck)
This law will probably be passed in a few months, what to do?
Our "alt Right" party (not really, because creating one is already against the law) has also an hashtag, you will find it in the second link.
Image related
Other urls found in this thread:
it.wikipedia.org
youtube.com
twitter.com
No it's not, it's a joke of a law, made only to draw some more votes to the left: what it says it's that "fascist propaganda" and "fascism apologism" will be punished, but it's extremely lacking in content, which means that with a decent lawyer you'll get discharged from these accusations in no time.
As i was saying, the fact that elections are near transformed the debate in a shitshow, where the ruling (mild left) PD party wants it approved to rise again in the electoral polls (since its consensus it's falling) and opposition parties are trying their best to delay the law's parliamentary path.
It's not about being racist, practically it's a hollow propaganda shell, made by PD only to not lose the next election that badly
crybaby "fascist" want the right to be edgy and say fascism was cool and be free to do the salute now shaking in their steel-tipped-boots because that constitutes apology to fascism and that's illegal since 1952
"muh freedom of speech"
Moreover, seeing a fascist sympathizer using Espresso as a source, is even more comical
Not really, the new law is way more concrete than the old one, and desu if you have the right to fist your hand to the left, why can't I salute to the right. That is bullshit
They don't have the time nor the numbers to pass it in the senate and even if they did the constitutional court would void it, it's just virtue signaling from the jews of the democratic party
Just wanted some sources that are recognazibly not garbage (so not libero or whatever the fuck). Not a big fan of the DUX still, sad that saying that anyone should be free to say and think is deemed as fascist from those who think their thoughts are superior.
Wouldn't count on the constructional court if I was you. They have proven left multiple times
Sure but that law is blatantly unconstitutional, it's not even an opinion
it's unconstitutional to forbid people to promote a movement of ideas (and behaviours) deemed uncostitutional?
This, and moreover, they are a bunch of kikes, they don't care
wow that sucks, didnt know italy was this fucked up
It's unconstitutional to forbid people from having or sharing their opinions yes, and if you actually read the thing you'd find out there's nothing on there about fascism being prohibited, just a transitory provision at the end prohibiting the recreation of the PNF
>It's unconstitutional to forbid people from having or sharing their opinions
Way to twist the words. i like how all fascists act like harmful fellas with big puppy eyes "we just want to be able to share out opinions" , cut the crap. you can have opinions on the subject and they can be either good or bad without actually promoting fascism and that would be fine. You guys are arguing about promoting fascism, fascism values and salutes, that isn't freedom of speech. And it's idiotic to think that whatever ideology one might have is oppressed by not being able to do a salute.
you might also want to read this it.wikipedia.org
go back to tumblr you fucking kike, the fact is that I, or whom who wants to, might or might not be able to speak their mind depending on their political view, and that sucks
With this law you would literally go to jail if you shared a picture of Mussolini on facebook, it fills the void that was purposely left by the law you linked on wikipedia from 60 years ago, they left it exactly for that reason, because they knew it was unconstitutional to just prohibit people from saying good things about fascism or Mussolini
see you are just stupid, because i already said sharing opinions on the subject is allowed, promoting is not sharing opinions.
Also you just called me a kike for not agreeing with you, basically calling me a jew as an insult, why does it surprise when people calls your lot racist when you do little to no effort into concealing it?
humor me for a second. why would you need to share a pic of mussolini? I mean we are not talking about the memes of course, because if i posted a pic of mussolini upside down i wouldn't be accused of promoting fascism, would i? Also what's good about fascism? Ever thought whatever you know about fascism comes out the propaganda? Do you think propaganda would be fair about pros and cons about the subject? It's your choice to believe one part or the other (those who say it was good and those who said it was bad, i mean) that doesn't mean it's the right choice or it's universally right therefore it has to be the only truth out there. Nazism made a lot of sense to the nazis back in the day, even to the average german guy that wasn't really a nazi but you'd think he would oppose it? Hell whatever bullshit laws in middle east or north korea makes sense to them, does it mean they are right?
What if tomorrow is no longer fascists that need to be silenced, but are others, would you still be ok with that as long as the group doesn't include you?
Making something against the law doesn't work anyway, many times it makes it stronger. So anyway this law is anti democratic, unconstitutional and potentially damaging because it strengthen whom who it would like to hit
>humor me for a second. why would you need to share a pic of mussolini?
I wish our constitution was labeled like the american one so i could just reply with "it's called the bill of rights, not the bill of needs"
But yeah, pretty much that, i don't need to but i have the right to if i want, which i really don't but i still defend freedom of speech out of principle
you're a moron my dude
Kk ic, good point there, well exposed. You really added something to this conversation
>Also what's good about fascism?
plenty of things, in fact fascism was the smartest answer to the cultural void that europe was left in the 20th century.
And the legacy of fascism in Italy wasn't only the war.
there is nothing to add, I don't have the time to put up with your deliria.
> Doesn't have time
> Is on Sup Forums
go hys kek
Option B
it's leasure time, I'm all for a good discussion, but you clearly don't have the means to bring one to the table
It must be nice to come to a discussion and tell one that us discussing that he is not and he doesn't have anything to say because you are not of the same thoughts
You're headed there too unless you guys somehow impeach Shabbos Goy of the Century Justin Trudeau
nothing will happen
Wait until the true italians wake up
Also i've never seen so many italian flags in a single thread
Also the fact that many are turning to the Sup Forums is intresting.
I've never opened a thread before although I've been here for a lot of years( was a newfag ) but recently I've seen a growth of Italian flags
>What if tomorrow is no longer fascists that need to be silenced, but are others
you mean to say that if a law made antifascism illegal you'd be against it?
>i don't need to but i have the right to if i want
Fair point. If it wasn't that fascism didn't really respect other's opinions to begin with. And like i said earlier, i could post a meme of mussolini, i could make fun of him, post an upside down face of him and i wouldn't be accused of jack. They are not forbidding the use of pictures "as it is", they are forbidding propaganda, which is not the same thing. They aren't forbidding discussion or exchange of ideas either, if we were to met on a bar and i asked you "what do you think about fascism" and you were like "well it had pros and cons i believe" no cop would come to us and say "You two can't talk about that, i'm taking you in", that is freedom of speech. Propaganda is not freedom of speech. And either way, freedom of speech doesn't mean "i can say whatever i want, no consequences".
>plenty of things
And you aren't making any exception other than a vague and debatable
>was the smartest answer to the cultural void that europe was left in the 20th century
Which is an answer given by someone who didn't live back in those days to judge, and certainly had faced many arguments on why fascism failed and/or was a mess, yet decided to believe what the underdogs said, basically propaganda-driven words that went togheter with an healthy dose of personal bias.
because nobody except italians care for fascism. on average these italian threads are 90% italian guys speaking to themselves in english
Do the rules forbid to speak about politics on int or is there any reason any of this happens?
It won't pass, and even if it does it'll be abolished as soon as the right is elected. That said, hope that disgusting Fiano jew gets killed.
>Be in Italy
>Need good lawyer to speak freely
You sure it's not still a fascist dictatorship over there?
What happens when "true" italians wake up? A grease fire?
>if we were to met on a bar and i asked you "what do you think about fascism" and you were like "well it had pros and cons i believe" no cop would come to us and say "You two can't talk about that, i'm taking you in", that is freedom of speech
If he heard you say that he could arrest you, you just broke the law, that's where the old one drew the line, saying good things about fascism or Mussolini without the intent of recreating the PNF, which is where this law would expand, making it illegal and that's why it's unconstitutional
This, but worse. Communist takeover rant incoming.
The fact is that the only conveyable way to think in Italy is to be from the left, not because it is better, but because the right is demonized. Moreover many(if not all) the right or far right politicians are evidently disabled, blandly retarded or ignorant as fuck. We do have a right "leader" but he went through so much shit that he is more than a national meme, he is an international one.
What if you spoke well of the ancient Romans and imperialism?
I'm just not quite getting it, so if you speak well of what exactly? Italy took over 1/4 of the civilized world, is that somehow worse than current right wing ideology or your leader from the 1940s?
Post war, war fearing revisionism, nothing more
>What if you spoke well of the ancient Romans and imperialism?
No, that's fine
>I'm just not quite getting it, so if you speak well of what exactly?
The proposed law (which won't pass and even if it did would be voided by the constitutional court) would criminalize saying, writing or posting on the internet fascist or nazi "propaganda", propaganda is not legally defined so saying or writing anything good about fascism, nazism, Mussolini or Hitler would be illegal, also "gestures" so obviously the roman salute and it theory replicating any movement with a body part that people associate with Mussolini (just look at some gifs of him, he was quite the character)
>waaaah you called me a jew as an insult
Fiano pls, if you really were Italian you'd know why 'jew' and 'rabbi' are traditionally considered insults
Do they actually define fascism or nazism? If you go by the 2017 American definition of Nazism, it means anything that isn't sucking a mudslimes disgusting cock.
then again i don't use jew as an insult. You think it's coincidential a fascist called me jew of all the avialable words he could've used to insult me? I call it ironic.
same more or less
>you think it's accidental fascist called me a hew of all words he could've used to insult me?
wait, it's not because you're acting like a jew?
No, of course they don't
By the way the jew that proposed this law also wants to deface every monument with any reference to Mussolini
1/2
your entire argument is ridicolous, but it's not unexpected considering the premises. Let's analise them:
>Which is an answer given by someone who didn't live back in those days to judge
which means that you can only understand a system of thoughts if you are permeated by it and not looking at it from a detached point of view.
I have to admit that at least your thought have a semblance of coherence, considering that you procede to say
> yet decided to believe what the underdogs said, basically propaganda-driven words that went togheter with an healthy dose of personal bias
because the idea that one forms his opinions by studying the work of historians and thinkers is completely alien to you.
My conclusion? You don't really know what you are talking about, instead you arbitrarily created a faux diverb (that you imagine being between fascism and antifascism, I suppose) and decided that you belong in your perceived image of antifascism.
Instead of a critical analisys you use the acritical loyalty to this image.
Now, let's address your actual points.
>And you aren't making any exception other than a vague and debatable
that point isn't vague, it's as precise as one could express himself. Maybe you are looking for another world.
It is obviously debatable, the fact that you think that it someohow invalidates a point is quite peculiar. We are (I am, at least) starting a dialectical confrontation. If your activity is eristics, I will stop arguing.
Which one are you Shlomo?
>pic
I was never the pic on the left, I used to be much more liberal, but I was never 'YAY FAGGOTS/BROWN PEOPLE!' About it
2/2
But let us debate my claim.
There should be no doubt that Europe in the 20th century was left in a cultural void. You can find it in the art expressions, you can find it in philosophy. The atmosphere of the fin de siecle paved the road for extreme nihilism, the agitated mass were the harbringers of complete social disruption. The progresses in science had made way for an hyper aggressive capitalist economy, alienating and soulless. The war exacerbated this empasse.
Enter Mussolini. Mistifies heroism, brings a cohesive message through all the social classes, anticapitalistic and revolutionary.
Of course fascism had many problems - ultimately deriving by its italian inception - such as the presence of the king and the pope, the impossibility of an autarchic economy in a country devoid of natural resources, the constant incapacity of cultural expansionism. But ultimately the other answers - bolscevism, hyper capitalism - would have been even worse for Italy exactly because it's Italy: a radicated christian culture and the diktat of preserving our historical heritage are enough to already give confirmations to my claims.
I will also add that you didn't even try to debate that the legacy of fascism in Italy isn't only the war, so I guess we agree on that.
does it take to be jews to disagree with a fascist? Good to know.
>you can only understand a system of thoughts if you are permeated by it and not looking at it from a detached point of view
>because the idea that one forms his opinions by studying the work of historians and thinkers is completely alien to you
No but let's review the context. Fascism is no longer promoted "in the open" and we could argue that most informations one could find about fascism is driven by bias and fear of actually promoting fascism. So 90% of the infos out there condamn it. What's the 10%? Let's not forget that even though fascism "failed", not every fascist died out, most of them carried the legacy from father to son, basically your knowledge about fascism comes by those who were fascists in the first place, or people who were subject to propaganda. I'm not ignoring the fact that there could be "legit" information about those times and i'm not blindingly saying that everything about that time was wrong, or to phrase it better, i'm giving it the benefit of the doubt.
That being said, there are a lot of authoritarian states in the world, should you speak to any of the lemmings living under those states they could only talk good things about it, 100 years from now north korea would be a democracy and there would be a small percentage of people who would still believe that back when the glorious leader was in charge was the best days in north korea.
I understand that we are talking hypotesis now and it's not really an argument on my part, but hey, we got monarchists nowadays. that should tell you the whole story.
>does it take to be jews to disagree with a fascist?
>everything I don't like is fascism
Pierluigi, I...
the greatest historian about fascism is an hebrew, De Felice
>Democracy is inevitable
>Democracy is good
Quite frankly you can sodomize yourself with a chainsaw. Democracy just devolves into rule by a bureaucracy manipulated by globalist plutocrats.
Then they can't enforce it. We have the same issues with gun laws here - every inch they try to take is filled with vague language and never actually gets put into law. It's always "set to go into law in...." and it never happens.
Or they could overapply it, vagueness could be a double edged sword
>implying laws are enforced in italy
this guy is out there insulting immigrants all day and nothing ever happent to him
youtube.com
Depends, how pozzed is your law enforcement apparatus? Particularly at the local level.
Perhaps we should use the Sicilians since the racist bastards that are doing thiscan't tell the difference between them and a migrate.
oh they can, and they'll beat the Sicilian twice as hard
It's cool to see so many Pizzanons going at it, and actually using their flag.