Why is Spain so against a Catalan independence ref?

Is Spain not into democracy? Catalonia has its own language, its own people, its own territory. There is nothing Spanish about it. It is just like Scotland. Why is Spain trying everything to threaten and intimidate people who want to stage a democratic referendum for the people?

What would you do if Bavaria was to break up with Germany? Losing parts of your country fucking sucks.

>What would you do if Bavaria was to break up with Germany?

I tell them to hold a referendum to see whether the people want their own country or remain Germans. What else?

But that would be democratic! Oh wait...

fug you would - majority of Bavaria disappear into their own brand-new borders the second they found out where to mark their x. And they'd keep the(ir) goodies, all of them. Someone else might win the Bundesliga tho, and Bayern Munich get to play with themselves every week, its not all bad news.

Most countries where formed with iron and blood. Wouldn't make sense to give everyone the opportunity to leave out of a current sentiment.

>majority of Bavaria disappear into their own brand-new borders
Good for them. Again, I am all for them having a referendum if they want to.

>Most countries where formed with iron and blood. Wouldn't make sense to give everyone the opportunity to leave out of a current sentiment.
Last I checked borders and countries have changed constantly... until quite recently when we started to say "muhhh, can't break up xyz because muhhh constitution!"

OK, regardless of the Sup Forums hivemind view on the subject.. do you think the Cameron offering UK a referendum on Europe was a good idea? Because he doesn't seem to think so, in retrospect. Du solltest nicht den Stammtisch deine Frau wahlen lassen.

>Last I checked borders and countries have changed constantly... until quite recently when we started to say "muhhh, can't break up xyz because muhhh constitution!"
We always said something equivalent to "muh constitution". Leaving or conquering was never free. It was a bloodbath. That's because it's one of a countries most important goals to keep it's territory together.

It is illegal, also why would only the people of cataluña get to vote on a decision that affects all of Spain?

>implying this would be a bad thing
By the way, if Hofer would have won in Austria, Bavaria would have probably wanted to be annexed.
They are the most conservative region of Germany and have no control over a political apparatus that clearly fucks them every single election cycle.

It's against the Spanish Constitution. Also, you're implying that all people living in Catalonia want to be independent, which is not true. When you let 16 years old and immigrants vote on those """referendums", you get inflated values of how many people really want to be independent.

>It is illegal, also why would only the people of cataluña get to vote on a decision that affects all of Spain?

Because it doesn't affect the rest of Spain, it only affects Catalonia. If you let everyone vote, then the will of the outsiders dictate whether Catalonia can be free or not.

It is a fundamental natural international right to determine your own future as a people. If Catalonians want to be free after so many years, it is their business, not yours. Should have treated them better then.

>It's against the Spanish Constitution.
It was against British law that the American colonies made their own country. Didn't mean Washington laid down his rifle saying "lads, sorry, but British law says we can't have a country, so it is all over".

> There is nothing Spanish about it

Every Iberian region share a LOT of culture with each other.

It's an eu scheme of breaking up national states and then have them join the eu as smaller entities.
Both scottish and catalonian indipendentist parties are bigly pro-eu.

>By the way, if Hofer would have won in Austria, Bavaria would have probably wanted to be annexed.
I don't think so. The German party that is nearest to Hofer is weakest in Bavaria. I for one would have wanted the annexation of all of Germany by Austria.
>have no control over a political apparatus
They already have a special status in that they have an own party that's gets into government nearly every single time.

because spain has invested money in the territory so losing it would literally mean to lose your money you filthy fucking kraut

Yeah, so they engaged in a military conflict centuries ago. Do you think that this is a realistic possibility right now? Reply to the second part of my argument too. Easily half of people living in Catalonia don't want to be independent.

>They already have a special status in that they have an own party that's gets into government nearly every single time.
That has very little say or influence relative to the other parties.

>It´s like Scotland
Catalonia has never been a nation and they´re just like the resto of the mediterranean areas in Spain (Andalucia, Valencia..)

>Didn't mean Washington laid down his rifle saying "lads, sorry, but British law says we can't have a country, so it is all over".
Sure. They can do that. It'll be a bloodbath. They can't have it for free though, that's all what Spain's saying.

Because catalaniggers are commie scum who kill Innocent members of The Clergy.
We have experience in fighting the cunts.
If Our Greatest Allies ever need help in pushing down these shits we'll gladly jump at the chance to kill subhumans again.

I WANT AN INDEPENDENT CATALAN

Spanish Civil War:
1932 - You are here

What's illegal? Posters? Attempting to organise a proper democratic action?

They have three federal secretaries in office, that's 30% of the conservative secretaries which they belong to, while Bavaria has only ~16% of the population.

you have to be at least 18 to post in this board

The referendum, and therefore everything related to it that uses public money.

>Because it doesn't affect the rest of Spain, it only affects Catalonia.
You must be a moron.

>Catalonia obtains independence
>Joins EU
it's just as pointless as the Scottish independence

How about I have a referendum at my house and make my plot it's own nation. It would be very democratic.

Try to declare independence on a chunk of land in your country, whether it's a state or just some land you own.

If Catalonia obtains independence, they will never be able to join EU. Spain would make sure of that.

Because the Catalan people are better than the rest of the population (less Moor admixture). The rest of Spain like leeching from better people.

Because they can't stand the idea of another territory cucking them like Gibraltar.

>Because it doesn't affect the rest of Spain
>economic power that Barcelona has
>doesn't affect the rest of Spain
Underage please

>pointless
..then? - maybe. any new Scottish independence referendum (not that theres gonna be one anytime soon) would now additionally be a vote to rejoin the EU tho - which, given that the leaving process is going to be an extended carcrash that will make little or no difference to immigration, Scots'll probably be in favor, next time around.
I don't think they would desu, they eventually dropped their opposition to Scotland rejoining. No use crying over spilled sangria.

>MUH DEMUKRASHY

>the Catalan people are better than the rest of the population (less Moor admixture)
Thanks for the laugh you dirty moor rape baby.
t. Galician

>they eventually dropped their opposition to Scotland rejoining
Because the hypothetical independence of Scotland would have been legal according to British law. Catalonia secession would be illegal in any case. We don't recognize Kosovo for that same reason.

>implying things in Austria are not top cuck
reminder that the ((((((social democratic)))))) party has been the strongest in parlamentary elections since 1970

...

Of course they will never allow an ethno-state for anyone but the kikes.

Multi-culturalism for thee, but not for me, hehe.

The terms of "democracy" are dictated and are not to be disobeyed.

You're stupid if you think you have power or rights or that you matter in the modern world

Because (((castilians))) are an inferior schemy race and """Spain""" has to naturaly split up into the nations that compose it
also gib galiza

Dont defend the spaniards my dear oldest ally!!
They've tricked us before and will trick us again

*cringes*

based brother galiza

Barcelona is one of the worst cities I've been to, and that includes various places in Africa and the Middle East. The rest of Catalonia is even worse.

It's Spain's Kurdistan.

awww did i touch a nerve castelhano do caralho?
you can assimilate as many iberian nations has you want but you'll never anex us

Catalania is barely 20% ethnic Catalan sadly. Spanish immigrants, Portuniggers and non-Europeans displaced them

All of these sepratists whether kurds, catalans, scots.... deserve one thing only.

Sarine gas attacks

Who would want another Andalusia?

cry some more ;)
there aren't even that many portuguese immigrants in spain but you do you

We Germans tend to trot that out in order to troll each other (like Amerisharts do) but it's not serious, although they will deny that.
Bavaria is in a bad state in urban major areas (although some will deny that), conned by Merkel's CSU boys and a multiculturalist hell hole. Actually, Franconia voted to leave Bavaria as a new state (legal under the German constitution, unlike some forms of separatism) and the supreme court banned it at the behest of the Bavarian government.
2015 was the year to leave for anyone who was serios and it did not happen; if it would happen NATO gobalists and USA would crack down on any such attempt. Think of all the American, British and domestic spy stations and BfV agents etc especially in West Germany.
What Bavaria truly needs is a racial uprising.

Statute cucked by "collecting signatures". Constitution changed so debnt>Spanish people. Any attempt to solve this like a real country demonized and destroyed. Salaries, jobs, education and quality of life BTFO just because even though some of these laws were denied at the last moment. Trying to deny the right to vote to people who are literally exiled because they can't afford to live here with the average salaries. And they have the audacity to say "No you can't it's illegal lol". Fuck that. I don't want to be independent but I am Spanish and not a second class citizen in my own country. They don't care, they don't give a fuck and they have broken Spain, not a bunch of faggots with barretinas. The sooner you understand this the better. Catalan independence would have been over years ago, but instead they keep fueling the fires because it promotes "muh Spaña" and hides their corruption from the news. It's laughable how you goyim believe this.

Sometimes you lads are really fucking dumb. Spain really doesn't want Catalan independence because Catalonia is the richest part of Spain. Spain would be economically fucked without the region.

You should kill yourself as soon as possible desu.

>posting a paki terrorist
Stay mad you darkie.

t. Russian Province

Catalonians are just spaniards in denial. Besides, do you really want yet another EU-horny leftcuck country to fuck shit up?

Second Civil War When

t.Tito's bitch.

What is your argument? You godless piece of shit don't deserve to be Spanish.

Good riddance the artistically made Spain. Catalonia not only feeds racially foreign Spaniards, but houses them too
Catalonia is only lefty and cucked because Spanish people make up 60-70% there

Not sure if b8
"oh I know democracys not popular with you lot!"

Guess what? Most English didn't want to see Scots independence, but we recognise their right to self-determination.

because clay is clay and you're a retard to give it up willingly, especially for "muh democracy" like literally kill yourself if you support democracy

Germany would still have the industrial heartlands as well as the tourist centres.
Spain is in the position where it can lose both in one vote.

Economic interests retard, Catalonia is densely populated and has the best economy of Spain

Can't wait for major European cittys to start breaking off from the host countries because they are Islamic colony's.

>Catalonia is only lefty and cucked because Spanish people make up 60-70% there
Catalonians are Spanish, not a separate ethnicity. By the same logic, the whole of Spain would be 60-70% lefty, which it isn´t.

If Catalonia left many Spaniards would rather be Spanish residents or get double nationality.
If they had allowed the referendum years ago with "do you want to be Catalan, but not Spanish?" Indepes would have gotten BTFO and crippled for decades. This whole issue is just a big mishandled situation that went out of hand because our government and politicians are useless thieves and traitors. They don't care about what happens to Spain. We should be grabbing pitchforks and torches, not voting leave.

Choosing to criticize Spain just when its national integrity is being threatened is jewish-tier backstabbing, and proves you are nothing more than a fifth-columnist.

>It is a fundamental natural international right to determine your own future as a people
and who decides what a 'people' is?

Because they're a bunch of communist jews that will completely destroy it.

The whole of Spain is majority lefty leaning scum and that's the truth
>Catalonian are Spanish
That's why they have no subsaharan admixture right

Wonder if Catalanians will still be considered spics if they leave.
Only time will tell.

>resto

nice google translation faggot

yeah except Kurds are good for annoying filthy roaches

Fuck you you fucking retarded nigger kraut

>Is Spain not into democracy?
no democracy is for fags and cucked countries like Germany and Uk

t. Rotterdam kurd subhuman
Even Turks are angels comparing to kurds - inbred, even more brown, terrorists, ugly. If turkey gets one thing rights - its extermination of armenians and kurds

>If turkey gets one thing rights - its extermination of armenians and kurds

Why stop there?

>yeah except Kurds are good for annoying filthy roaches
the kurds are communists, so i would rather side with the turks

The national identity of Spain has been torn down from both sides thanks to useful idiots like you. Catalans would have never become independent had this been handled properly. Now there is a chance it may happen and we're heading to refugeeswelcomeland. Not supporting Catalonia in the past was not supporting Spain. Allowing the ruling classes to you with our (Spanish) industry, culture and dignity was not supporting Spain. I will go out on October and vote no to independence because I do not agree with it, but I will go out and vote because it is my duty as a citizen to do so.

I'm Dutch you fucking mongoloid and I didn't say anything about them living here.

how about neither. the ongoing unrest in Turkey is good no matter who is involved.

Cameron never intended for the vote to succeed, he just wanted to make a power play in an attempt to take the wind from UKIP's sails. He screwed up by severely underestimating the antipathy directed at EU, so now we're here.

>I'm Dutch
Of course are. You have a Dutch passport and can use your inbred goatfucking throat to form a sentence or two in Germanic. That makes you Dutch. No less than Geert Wilders. Dutch as it gets
Agreed, ideally Turkey should have wiped out gypsies, North Africans and local jews too. They had all the means to do it

>the ongoing unrest in Turkey is good no matter who is involved.
a unstable turkey is a bad thing

Why don't Catalans allow the valle de Aran to be independent from them??? Aren't catalans democratic? Or just hypocrites?

how so?

>Most countries where formed with iron and blood.

but most countries now try to say they are proposition nations, ergo they don't get to rely on the blood founding of the nation.

I hate both turks and kurds, idiotic clown.

Democracy is for pussies.

Because Turkey is a bridge and strategic area near Levant, Israel and Northern Africa you dumb ass kurd subhuman. If they go full eugenics, exterminate kurds, gypsies and religious roaches - they'll be a decent fair passing White tier nation

Of course you do
>Kurds
>K

If you give secessionist an inch they'll take a mile, this got evident after creating the autonomous communities. There can be no more concessions, the proper way to handle this is like we did during Franco. National unity is non-negotiable.