Are animators these days not as good as the previous generation? We all know Miyazaki's complaints about modern animation, but now even Mamoru Oshii had something to say about the current generation of animators:
>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent. The younger generation is more individualistic, and while the world appreciates how good their art has become, they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors. The biggest reason why I’ve stopped making anime is because the people who I can do [anime] with are disappearing.
So Oshii seems to be implying that the younger generation can't do more technically demanding work.
>>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent. 5% of 120 millions is 5.1 millions.
Adam Hughes
I think it should go without saying he's talking about animators, not the general population.
Austin White
He's complaining that the younger generation don't want to overwork themselves.
Lucas Brooks
He sounds like a grumpy old man.
Liam Parker
>The younger generation is more individualistic, and while the world appreciates how good their art has become, they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors.
The first half of this line seems to imply that Oshii was talking about animation styles though. If you look at Oshii's movies, he tends to surround himself with animators that specialize in realistic animation which is quite demanding on the animator. You don't see young animators bothering with realistic styles of animation these days. I don't know if it's just a trend or because they find it too difficult though.
Caleb Morris
Doesn't make him wrong.
Brody Lewis
>they’re unable to do exhausting work >can't do more technically demanding work. Stop, he is saying the older generation, being less individualistic, would work themselves to death to meet deadlines. He isn't complaiing about their technical skill at all. The new generation tells him to fuck off with his deadlines and to make do with the work they produced without working ungodly overhours on McDonalds wages. No really, the wages of anyone that isn't in a key position is literally McDonalds tier, yet they are still asked to work all day every day and on 4 hours of sleep, which is preferably had at the office. If laws would allow it they would be shackled to their desks.
There is less and less money is anime, because it is being used more and more as a promotional tool for merchandise and derivative works. All these people should be pointing fingers at Anno and his kickstarting of the merch>anime era, rather than complaining about the new generation of animators. Not that either would do any good.
What they need is to make an anime that makes oodles of cash without merch. This will never happen though. They might start of with the intention of making an anime without merch, but the moment it makes oodles of cash they'll come to the realization that they could make even more oodles of cash by releasing merch.
The cashflow for anime is not in anime, but in its associated merchandise.
Asher Nguyen
I don't agree with the way that's translated.
>上の世代のおやじたちみたいな破滅的な仕事の仕方はしたがらなくなりました >unlike the old men of the older generation, they no longer want to work in a way that's [self-]destructive
Christian Walker
>There is less and less money is anime, Because there's more and more anime every season and the Japanese population is shrinking.
Elijah Garcia
>animation
muh still shots
well oshii is full of shit
animated movie and tv anime ain't comparable, different level complexity when approaching the project, more animators, budget and TIME.
Christian Powell
How about you first increase their wages? Animators get paid shit and times aren't even paid when they work overtime.
Xavier Price
Yeah, because Gundam (the franchise that's the biggest seller of merch) was inspired by NGE.
Owen Cox
Then replace Anno with Gundam, fine by me. My point still stands.
Elijah Richardson
Anime was ruined in the 80s?
Austin Hill
Because the are treating anime like advertisements for manga/LN's/figurines/dolls.
Jackson Lee
>He wants to force people to reinforce his vision for free.
KEK
Chase Cox
That's a stretch at best for an interpretation. He means their aren't many who feel meticulous verisimilitude is useful enough to their artistic vision to be worth the trouble.
Jace Perez
Threadly reminder that you should stop posting that because it's a thing.
>pay people like shit >they don't want to bend themselves over backwards for you Who would've guessed?
Ryder White
>Minna no Uta (start 1961) Literally an advertisement show.
>Astro Boy (1963) Based on a manga.
>Sennin Buraku (1963) Based on a manga.
>Tetsujin 28-go (1963) Based on a manga.
>8 Man (1963 Had a manga accompanying it.
That's 5 of the 6 first anime. Do you want me to continue?
Nolan Sullivan
LEAVE ME ALONE
Sebastian Cruz
The merch industry now is bigger than it was in the 80's. The 90s bubble crash created a generation of people with less trust in the system than ever, becoming more individualist and having less interest in working themselves to death for "the greater good". An economical environment in which the country pays you shit wages whilst telling you shikata ga nai.
There are a bunch of reasons that led to the circumstances justifying the attitude animators of this generation have.
Austin Barnes
...
Chase Long
They know shit like redline won't sell
Liam Diaz
based on a manga =/= purely made to promote the manga
wages then =/= wages now
Hudson Lopez
The TV show was better.
Austin Thompson
>wages then =/= wages now Tezuka literally invented those wages.
Carson White
>based on a manga =/= purely made to promote the manga But they aren't made purely to promote those manga. Otherwise there would be no BDs, would there? Remaking the scenes would be pointless if you weren't planning on moving discs. SHAFT is infamous for giving their anime a complete haul-over just for the BDs.
Carter Diaz
CAN'T DEFY THE KEITAI
Hudson Morris
His interpretation is less of a stretch than yours.
Oliver Moore
>The merch industry now is bigger than it was in the 80's. Do you have any numbers or are you just spouting shit?
Sebastian Collins
I think animators and and sfx people in anime/japanimation are paid too much for the shoddy corner cutting work they do. Even after all these years it still looks like your watching a damned slideshow. Maybe if they put more of their effort into actually animating animation, people would like it more and it would finally be recognized. Spoofing and using computerized tricks to make it look like you put alot of effort into animation doesn't work.
I really wish anime would some day fix there shit so that one day it could be a legitimate vessel for telling a story instead of a glorified PowerPoint slideshow.
Carter Morris
Is she having an orgasm?
Samuel Cruz
No.
Ryan Foster
Then what the hell is Yagami Light doing to her?
Easton Campbell
Literally nothing.
Angel Carter
Yeah.
Adam Lewis
Taking her pussy and eating it!
Christopher Robinson
...
Bentley Brooks
If you people actually stopped replying to every Keit-ai post you see people would stop posting it.
Adam Ortiz
Maybe.
Isaac Evans
I don't know.
Michael Lewis
When I say I hate Keit-ai, it's just like saying I like Sakurafish to make it go away. Keit-ai is a fun meme and I'm pretending to be tsundere.
Joshua Johnson
>I think animators and and sfx people in anime/japanimation are paid too much for the shoddy corner cutting work they do il assume that youre ignorant and not baiting. Animators have a low wage which is tied to the amount of pics they draw. They are paid too little while quality standards are rare.
People who are talented will not become animators while deadlines and small pay encourage shoddy work
Henry Edwards
>Maybe if they put more of their effort into actually animating animation Akira and GitS have vastly superior animations to any animated western cartoon. They're still basically unknown compared to Disney movies, because the masses don't give a shit about animation quality and are still freaked out by animation movies not intended for children
Matthew Hughes
I liked this meme better when it was called Ghost Slide.
John Ward
>Akira and GitS have vastly superior animations to any animated western cartoon. Better than old school Disney? I doubt that.
Hudson Miller
Dude just said "japanimation." How the fuck are you faggots still taking the bait?
This won't go as far back as 1980, but it will show a growing trend in the period it does cover. I hope you speak good moon or the site will be just gibberish.
Jace Wood
Japanimation was what we use to call it. And since we are talking about anime "back in the day" it's perfectly legitimate.
Geeze. Dumb children don't know what the hell your even talking about.
Leo Ward
I knew they didn't get paid very much. I should have said the whole studio/production process from the top down. That was my bad.
Jonathan Ross
Kids these days, they don't know.
Hudson Cruz
Forced meme animation drama doesn't find a way.
David Barnes
>name Don't shill like that senpai.
Lucas Davis
he basicaly say majority of modern animator is DA-tier and very rare to see anyone learning Loomicism
Angel Allen
Based mod.
Carson Martinez
>Loomicism What?
Jonathan Torres
When you're making ~$9000 a year, with barely enough money to feed yourself, let alone your family, how are they supposed to put any more effort into animating?
Holy shit. The state of the anime industry is horrible right now in Japan. Some animators CAN and DO do good animation but those are rarer due to most anime not having enough budgets.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but if there was an effort from US/Japan to create a new anime firm in US, there could very well be a much better quality animation due to better pay/living conditions/etc.
Jordan Bell
>family,
Andrew Diaz
FOR FREE
John Torres
Oshii is an hack and not even an animator.
Miyazaki opinion on the other hand does matter, but I dont' recall him bashing animators.
Isaac Reyes
Oh boy.
Kevin Cook
>mod right now
Xavier Perez
MODS = GODS
Angel King
Anime actually improved.
Jace Wood
Forced meme animation drama doesn't find a way.
Adam Cox
>inb4 second wave of mass deletion
Isaiah Bell
>mods hate Ket-ai Screw you no fun faggots. I hop you choke on a hotpocket. >inb4 meme public ban
Christopher Garcia
>(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
William Mitchell
...
Daniel Butler
Anime being ad for merch has been a thing since at least the 70s. As much as I love mecha, I will never deny that it tends to be guilty of being a toy commercial. Anime has been a toy commercial for decades, it's just that what those toys are, and their market has changed.
Christian Johnson
Keit-ai is the worst meme
David Flores
CAN'T DEFY THE KEITAI
Hunter Brooks
It's not bad in and of itself. It's just that faggots have to spam it everywhere and all the time.
Christian Torres
Most of demanding work is outsourced to Korea anyway. The animators can fully concentrate on drawing the few key frames now and let the outsourcing do the rest.
Nathaniel Campbell
Ghost slide was better
Tyler Hughes
That's not baneposting. At least ket-ai is Sup Forums related.
Eli Rodriguez
>Keit-ai has a comedic OVA short
How many more ways will Keit-ai find?
Luis Baker
In that case, wouldn't that mean that not being paid a decent wage is an incentive to not find someone you could marry, or on the other end, why would someone marry somebody who barely is able to fend for themself AND is not even home most of the time.
Caleb Rivera
>ket-ai is Sup Forums related. Only tangentially. Which is the same that could be said for most Bane posting on Sup Forums.
Andrew Peterson
What the hell is going on? I was gone for a couple months.
James Reed
...
Jaxson Powell
Why can't animation studios in Japan just take animators more seriously and only hire a set amount of people to animate? I mean, it's a hard job to do, and to be a truly good animator you've gotta have sick drawing skills. Imagine how much better everything would be if animators were only hired in moderate amounts like concept artists.
Nathaniel Cox
>kek I mean, i know that Sup Forums isn't cancer free anymore, but is it really so complicated to lurk some time when coming straight from Sup Forums, shitface?
Ian Campbell
Just delete the thread, mod. I appreciate your effort, but the thread wasn't very good from the start. You are wasting your time.
Brayden Long
>censorship on Sup Forums
Nolan Garcia
Fair call on the deletions. Even discussing it feeds into it. I'd argue so. Most old Disney stuff is very fluid but also very low in detail. Things like GitS and Patlabor do stunning amounts of detail in /m/ designs and a lot of incredibly intricate visuals. I find that more impressive.
Henry Bennett
>I'd argue so. Most old Disney stuff is very fluid but also very low in detail.
Added detail will only make the animation be needlessly hard to animate, opening it to mistakes.
But anime always finds a way to keep a balance between detailed and fluid motion.
Gavin Kelly
I'd bet you in an alternate universe, it'd be the Koreans who are doing all the good work and the Japanese doing tweening stuff.
As it is, Korean studios are only for grunt work only. Even Korra (not anime) was mostly animated in the west then completed in Korea. They have no original works. They aren't able to find a way to break through with the nature of their work.
Joseph Johnson
>finds a way You almost had me going for a second.
Eli Sanders
They are getting crafty.
Juan Price
>it was all part of their master plan
Tyler Williams
They probably need a deus ex machina of some sort to get to the same level as Japan and America has in terms of anime.
I mean, off the top of your head, what Korean anime do people actually bother pirating?
Ian Cox
That's because low detail stuff means you can do much more complicated animation
Anyway the comparison is shit The styles of Japan and the West are completely fucking different (all the way down to the backgrounds)
Easton Butler
You're not as subtle as you think you are.
Angel Turner
>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent.
Their ability to have precision isn't as necessary as when anime was done with cels. Due to digital tools, someone who isn't technically precise can simply re-work the graphic, drawing, or illustration until it looks good enough to be accepted for production. A 4channer not familiar with process flow may compare such work with that of someone else from the old days and say the new work may even look better.
However, that new work took many reviews by either the senior animation staff or the director whereas the other work that was not quite as good but still usable took only one review (it was approved the first time it was submitted for review). Thus, that old guy was far better for process production and less fatiguing for the senior staff and director to work with than new guys who do trial and error until it is good enough to pass inspection. Trial and error is not precision work to a director such as Oshii.
Jeremiah Rogers
>the new janitors are so reddit that they need to babysit a thread with less than 30 posters.
Joshua Hughes
>they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors That and the bean-counters farming work out to lesser Korea and 'nam