Are animators these days not as good as the previous generation...

Are animators these days not as good as the previous generation? We all know Miyazaki's complaints about modern animation, but now even Mamoru Oshii had something to say about the current generation of animators:

>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent. The younger generation is more individualistic, and while the world appreciates how good their art has become, they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors. The biggest reason why I’ve stopped making anime is because the people who I can do [anime] with are disappearing.

So Oshii seems to be implying that the younger generation can't do more technically demanding work.


news.nicovideo.jp/watch/nw2210390

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fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/
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Anime actually improved.

>>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent.
5% of 120 millions is 5.1 millions.

I think it should go without saying he's talking about animators, not the general population.

He's complaining that the younger generation don't want to overwork themselves.

He sounds like a grumpy old man.

>The younger generation is more individualistic, and while the world appreciates how good their art has become, they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors.

The first half of this line seems to imply that Oshii was talking about animation styles though. If you look at Oshii's movies, he tends to surround himself with animators that specialize in realistic animation which is quite demanding on the animator. You don't see young animators bothering with realistic styles of animation these days. I don't know if it's just a trend or because they find it too difficult though.

Doesn't make him wrong.

>they’re unable to do exhausting work
>can't do more technically demanding work.
Stop, he is saying the older generation, being less individualistic, would work themselves to death to meet deadlines. He isn't complaiing about their technical skill at all. The new generation tells him to fuck off with his deadlines and to make do with the work they produced without working ungodly overhours on McDonalds wages. No really, the wages of anyone that isn't in a key position is literally McDonalds tier, yet they are still asked to work all day every day and on 4 hours of sleep, which is preferably had at the office. If laws would allow it they would be shackled to their desks.

There is less and less money is anime, because it is being used more and more as a promotional tool for merchandise and derivative works. All these people should be pointing fingers at Anno and his kickstarting of the merch>anime era, rather than complaining about the new generation of animators. Not that either would do any good.

What they need is to make an anime that makes oodles of cash without merch. This will never happen though. They might start of with the intention of making an anime without merch, but the moment it makes oodles of cash they'll come to the realization that they could make even more oodles of cash by releasing merch.

The cashflow for anime is not in anime, but in its associated merchandise.

I don't agree with the way that's translated.

>上の世代のおやじたちみたいな破滅的な仕事の仕方はしたがらなくなりました
>unlike the old men of the older generation, they no longer want to work in a way that's [self-]destructive

>There is less and less money is anime,
Because there's more and more anime every season and the Japanese population is shrinking.

>animation

muh still shots

well oshii is full of shit

animated movie and tv anime ain't comparable, different level complexity when approaching the project, more animators, budget and TIME.

How about you first increase their wages? Animators get paid shit and times aren't even paid when they work overtime.

Yeah, because Gundam (the franchise that's the biggest seller of merch) was inspired by NGE.

Then replace Anno with Gundam, fine by me. My point still stands.

Anime was ruined in the 80s?

Because the are treating anime like advertisements for manga/LN's/figurines/dolls.

>He wants to force people to reinforce his vision for free.

KEK

That's a stretch at best for an interpretation. He means their aren't many who feel meticulous verisimilitude is useful enough to their artistic vision to be worth the trouble.

Threadly reminder that you should stop posting that because it's a thing.

fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/

>pay people like shit
>they don't want to bend themselves over backwards for you
Who would've guessed?

>Minna no Uta (start 1961)
Literally an advertisement show.

>Astro Boy (1963)
Based on a manga.

>Sennin Buraku (1963)
Based on a manga.

>Tetsujin 28-go (1963)
Based on a manga.

>8 Man (1963
Had a manga accompanying it.

That's 5 of the 6 first anime.
Do you want me to continue?

LEAVE ME ALONE

The merch industry now is bigger than it was in the 80's.
The 90s bubble crash created a generation of people with less trust in the system than ever, becoming more individualist and having less interest in working themselves to death for "the greater good".
An economical environment in which the country pays you shit wages whilst telling you shikata ga nai.

There are a bunch of reasons that led to the circumstances justifying the attitude animators of this generation have.

...

They know shit like redline won't sell

based on a manga =/= purely made to promote the manga

wages then =/= wages now

The TV show was better.

>wages then =/= wages now
Tezuka literally invented those wages.

>based on a manga =/= purely made to promote the manga
But they aren't made purely to promote those manga. Otherwise there would be no BDs, would there?
Remaking the scenes would be pointless if you weren't planning on moving discs.
SHAFT is infamous for giving their anime a complete haul-over just for the BDs.

CAN'T DEFY THE KEITAI

His interpretation is less of a stretch than yours.

>The merch industry now is bigger than it was in the 80's.
Do you have any numbers or are you just spouting shit?

I think animators and and sfx people in anime/japanimation are paid too much for the shoddy corner cutting work they do. Even after all these years it still looks like your watching a damned slideshow. Maybe if they put more of their effort into actually animating animation, people would like it more and it would finally be recognized. Spoofing and using computerized tricks to make it look like you put alot of effort into animation doesn't work.

I really wish anime would some day fix there shit so that one day it could be a legitimate vessel for telling a story instead of a glorified PowerPoint slideshow.

Is she having an orgasm?

No.

Then what the hell is Yagami Light doing to her?

Literally nothing.

Yeah.

Taking her pussy and eating it!

...

If you people actually stopped replying to every Keit-ai post you see people would stop posting it.

Maybe.

I don't know.

When I say I hate Keit-ai, it's just like saying I like Sakurafish to make it go away. Keit-ai is a fun meme and I'm pretending to be tsundere.

>I think animators and and sfx people in anime/japanimation are paid too much for the shoddy corner cutting work they do
il assume that youre ignorant and not baiting. Animators have a low wage which is tied to the amount of pics they draw. They are paid too little while quality standards are rare.

People who are talented will not become animators while deadlines and small pay encourage shoddy work

>Maybe if they put more of their effort into actually animating animation
Akira and GitS have vastly superior animations to any animated western cartoon. They're still basically unknown compared to Disney movies, because the masses don't give a shit about animation quality and are still freaked out by animation movies not intended for children

I liked this meme better when it was called Ghost Slide.

>Akira and GitS have vastly superior animations to any animated western cartoon.
Better than old school Disney?
I doubt that.

Dude just said "japanimation." How the fuck are you faggots still taking the bait?

oricon.jp/

This won't go as far back as 1980, but it will show a growing trend in the period it does cover. I hope you speak good moon or the site will be just gibberish.

Japanimation was what we use to call it. And since we are talking about anime "back in the day" it's perfectly legitimate.

Geeze. Dumb children don't know what the hell your even talking about.

I knew they didn't get paid very much. I should have said the whole studio/production process from the top down. That was my bad.

Kids these days, they don't know.

Forced meme animation drama doesn't find a way.

>name
Don't shill like that senpai.

he basicaly say majority of modern animator is DA-tier and very rare to see anyone learning Loomicism

Based mod.

>Loomicism
What?

When you're making ~$9000 a year, with barely enough money to feed yourself, let alone your family, how are they supposed to put any more effort into animating?

Holy shit. The state of the anime industry is horrible right now in Japan. Some animators CAN and DO do good animation but those are rarer due to most anime not having enough budgets.

I've been thinking about this for a while, but if there was an effort from US/Japan to create a new anime firm in US, there could very well be a much better quality animation due to better pay/living conditions/etc.

>family,

FOR FREE

Oshii is an hack and not even an animator.

Miyazaki opinion on the other hand does matter, but I dont' recall him bashing animators.

Oh boy.

>mod right now

MODS = GODS

Anime actually improved.

Forced meme animation drama doesn't find a way.

>inb4 second wave of mass deletion

>mods hate Ket-ai
Screw you no fun faggots. I hop you choke on a hotpocket.
>inb4 meme public ban

>(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

...

Anime being ad for merch has been a thing since at least the 70s. As much as I love mecha, I will never deny that it tends to be guilty of being a toy commercial. Anime has been a toy commercial for decades, it's just that what those toys are, and their market has changed.

Keit-ai is the worst meme

CAN'T DEFY THE KEITAI

It's not bad in and of itself. It's just that faggots have to spam it everywhere and all the time.

Most of demanding work is outsourced to Korea anyway. The animators can fully concentrate on drawing the few key frames now and let the outsourcing do the rest.

Ghost slide was better

That's not baneposting. At least ket-ai is Sup Forums related.

>Keit-ai has a comedic OVA short

How many more ways will Keit-ai find?

In that case, wouldn't that mean that not being paid a decent wage is an incentive to not find someone you could marry, or on the other end, why would someone marry somebody who barely is able to fend for themself AND is not even home most of the time.

>ket-ai is Sup Forums related.
Only tangentially. Which is the same that could be said for most Bane posting on Sup Forums.

What the hell is going on? I was gone for a couple months.

...

Why can't animation studios in Japan just take animators more seriously and only hire a set amount of people to animate? I mean, it's a hard job to do, and to be a truly good animator you've gotta have sick drawing skills.
Imagine how much better everything would be if animators were only hired in moderate amounts like concept artists.

>kek
I mean, i know that Sup Forums isn't cancer free anymore, but is it really so complicated to lurk some time when coming straight from Sup Forums, shitface?

Just delete the thread, mod.
I appreciate your effort, but the thread wasn't very good from the start. You are wasting your time.

>censorship on Sup Forums

Fair call on the deletions. Even discussing it feeds into it.
I'd argue so. Most old Disney stuff is very fluid but also very low in detail. Things like GitS and Patlabor do stunning amounts of detail in /m/ designs and a lot of incredibly intricate visuals. I find that more impressive.

>I'd argue so. Most old Disney stuff is very fluid but also very low in detail.

Added detail will only make the animation be needlessly hard to animate, opening it to mistakes.

But anime always finds a way to keep a balance between detailed and fluid motion.

I'd bet you in an alternate universe, it'd be the Koreans who are doing all the good work and the Japanese doing tweening stuff.

As it is, Korean studios are only for grunt work only. Even Korra (not anime) was mostly animated in the west then completed in Korea. They have no original works. They aren't able to find a way to break through with the nature of their work.

>finds a way
You almost had me going for a second.

They are getting crafty.

>it was all part of their master plan

They probably need a deus ex machina of some sort to get to the same level as Japan and America has in terms of anime.

I mean, off the top of your head, what Korean anime do people actually bother pirating?

That's because low detail stuff means you can do much more complicated animation

Anyway the comparison is shit
The styles of Japan and the West are completely fucking different (all the way down to the backgrounds)

You're not as subtle as you think you are.

>the number of people within this country able to work with such high precision is less than 5 percent.

Their ability to have precision isn't as necessary as when anime was done with cels. Due to digital tools, someone who isn't technically precise can simply re-work the graphic, drawing, or illustration until it looks good enough to be accepted for production. A 4channer not familiar with process flow may compare such work with that of someone else from the old days and say the new work may even look better.

However, that new work took many reviews by either the senior animation staff or the director whereas the other work that was not quite as good but still usable took only one review (it was approved the first time it was submitted for review). Thus, that old guy was far better for process production and less fatiguing for the senior staff and director to work with than new guys who do trial and error until it is good enough to pass inspection. Trial and error is not precision work to a director such as Oshii.

>the new janitors are so reddit that they need to babysit a thread with less than 30 posters.

>they’re unable to do exhausting work like their older predecessors
That and the bean-counters farming work out to lesser Korea and 'nam