Daily Japanese Thread DJT #1560

Cornucopia of Resources / Guide
Read the guide before asking questions.
docs.google.com/document/d/1pKgBm8Aa58mjB1hYhbK-VOPZsRBTXBuPBzw8Xikm2ss/pub?embedded=true

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Other urls found in this thread:

detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1351369598
pastebin.com/DgZ84qwk
ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/させてもらう
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

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It does exactly that. It's not limited to katakana.

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Google also told me it's used to extend in a way to emphasize the word, not actually being part of it, which is it?

syak a shit

So what level JLPT are most of the people here? Just passed N3 reporting in

you a shit

Passed N2 barely, like a milimeter close to failing.

It just extends the syllable, showing that he is drawing out the word for emphasis, just as in English.

Compare:

This is so cool.

This is sooooooooo cooooooool!

Same dif.

The Japanese in that panel is spoken Japanese in written form, and the ー is being used to indicate that the character, while speaking, is drawing out the sound. You could say he is doing it to emphasise the word, but it could also just be his style of speaking.

Passed N2 many years ago (whenever it was that the test was first reconfigured). Could probably pass N1 now, but I would just squeak by the 聴解 section. Reading and writing is better than native, though. I really should go join a club or something, since this huge, gaping abyss between those abilities is getting weird and embarrassing.

My colloquial skills are shit, which is why I waste my time here, trying to brush up on everyday, casual Japanese.

sounds fishy to me

why would come here of all places to brush up on your casual japanese

Do I use it twice if I want to drag the sound of a word in katakana that's already dragged?

I fucked your mum last night

You can only use one.

>quad 9s

whoa slow down there

If you want a really long sound then you just draw a really long line.

なるべく諦めない！
なせば大抵なんとかなる！

As long as you never give up and you keep pushing to better yourself, you'll make it no matter what. You CAN learn Japanese!

>3D

Just watch anime you faggot

The causative and passive forms are giving me a really hard time. You don't actually know you're reading a causative/passive sentence until you get to the very end and see the verb, so up until that point I interpret the person marked by は as being the subject and the person marked by に as being the indirect object of whatever verb is to come, which is the total reverse of what actually happens in a causative/passive construction.

I think a big part of the problem is that I can't stop seeing に as meaning "to" or "for" when attached to a person, e.g. (from the DoJG):
>秋子は浩にご飯を作らせた。
>Akiko made Hiroshi make a meal.
Up until I get to the very end and notice the causative conjugation, my brain reads this as "Akiko, for Hiroshi, a meal...", so then when I add "made" to that, my brain completes the sentence as "Akiko made a meal for Hiroshi" which is totally wrong, so when I notice the causative form at the end I then have to retrospectively flip the two people's roles around (it was actually Hiroshi who made the meal for Akiko).

Any advice? Japanese people must not have this problem, else they wouldn't use it.

Will normies stop posting 3dpd already? 2d is so much better!

Wouldn't nico be better?

Mostly to get ideas for reading selections, or animes to watch. My colloquial Jap is practically nonexistent. So, I come here from time to time, answer questions about grammar and kanji and get ideas for practicing col. Jap in return.

That's the idea, but I'm really picky. If it doesn't interest me, it turns from fun, useful study into an unpleasant chore.

I think you pretty much identified the problem yourself, you just need to stop thinking backwards in terms of Japanese sentence structure.
The best way to solve this is exposure. Every time you hear or read a sentence like this, just make sure you know what it means and why.
Eventually you'll read に and be able to move on without trying to translate everything before it into English first.

>Japanese people must not have this problem
Yeah, their brain doesn't read the sentence in English.

I don't believe there is any formal rule about it. It is just representing a sound.

You could see:

すげー
すげーーーーー
すげ~
すげ~~~~~~~~
すげえ
すげえええええ
すげぇ
すげぇぇぇぇぇ

All more or less the same.

Although the actual, formal grammatical explanation is different, you can think of ~に as showing who the causative is being inflicted upon, if that helps.

>download that monogatari audio book from last thread
>it's in fucking english
>on top of that, the guy reading it sounds annoying

Yeah, sorry for posting that, wasn't really expecting it to be in English. I was hoping for some hardcore listening practice myself, guess I'll have to keep listening to anime cd dramas.

trying to comprehend conversations in monogatari sounds miserable

私は以前お手伝いさんの面接に行ったことがありますが結局その人は誰も雇わなかったそうです

The speaker is saying she got interviewed but the employer ended up not hiring anyone? Im having trouble because その人は. Shouldnt 行った be in passive form?

fuck that audio book, but I'd like source on the manga in your pic please.

I'm reading it right now, nothing too scary: 「中学校を卒業して、この高校に入る前のことよ」

　戦場ヶ原は言った。

「中学生でも高校生でもない、春休みでもない、中途半端なその時期に──私はこうなったの」

「…………」

「一匹の──蟹に出会って」

　か──蟹？

　蟹と言ったか？

　蟹って──冬に食べる、あの蟹？

　甲殻綱十脚目の──節足動物？

「重さを──根こそぎ、持っていかれたわ」

「…………」

「ああ、別に理解しなくていいのよ。これ以上かぎまわられたらすごく迷惑だから、喋っただけだから。阿良々木くん。阿良々木くん──ねえ、阿良々木暦くん」

　戦場ヶ原は。

　僕の名を、繰り返して、呼んだ。

「私には重さがない──私には重みがない。重みというものが、一切ない。全く困ったものじゃない。さながら『ヨウスケの奇妙な世界』といった有様よ。高橋葉介、好きかしら？」

「…………」

「このことを知っているのはね、この学校では、保健の春上先生だけなの。今現在、保健の春上先生だけ。校長の吉城先生も教頭の島先生も学年主任の入中先生も担任の保科先生も知らないわ。春上先生と──それから、あなただけ。阿良々木くん」

「…………」

「さて、私は、あなたに私の秘密を黙っていてもらうために、何をすればいいのかしら？ 私は私のために、何をすべきかしら？ 『口が裂けても』喋らないと、阿良々木くんに誓ってもらうためには──どうやって『口を封じれば』いいかしら？」

私は以前お手伝いさんの面接に行ったことがあります
が
結局その人は誰も雇わなかったそうです

No, the writer is simply saying she went 行った to on interview.

She could have explicitly noted that receiving the interview was a favour by writing 行ってもらった, but chose a simpler expression.

ろりこんにちは
One of those ero manga you read for the plot.

A while ago I went to an interview to be an assistant, but in the end they didn't hire anyone.

That person = the person they interviewed with, the employer. 行った is an action being done by 私 so it doesn't need to be passive.

Is it the ことがあります that's tripping you up? It's just saying "there was a time when..." basically

It ain't that bad they speak pretty clearly so at least you can look up the words usually.

>The speaker is saying she got interviewed but the employer ended up not hiring anyone?
Yes
>Shouldnt 行った be in passive form?
WHY

Should I mine before or after my reps?

>She could have explicitly noted that receiving the interview was a favour by writing 行ってもらった
No, that would mean she had someone else do the favor of going to the interview for her which makes no sense.

link.

name?

I just gave you a name.

You're right, sorry, spaced there for some reason.

That would be 行かせてもらった

It's written right there.

No that would mean she wasn't invited but went there anyway without permission.

I thought about it some more, and I think the thing that is actually fucking me up is that two people are doing different parts of the verb - almost like the verb is two separate verbs.

>秋子は浩にご飯を作らせた。
>Akiko made Hiroshi make a meal.
Here, with 作らせた, one the one hand the verb is indicating that someone (Hiroshi) made something, but at the same time it is indicating that someone else (Akiko) made someone do that thing, so there are really two verbs at play here it seems - "to make", and "to make someone do".

It's confusing because Akiko is technically the one carrying out the verb "to make (Hiroshi) make (a meal)", but the person who actually does the making (and therefore does the verb "to make" to the direct object ("a meal")) is Hiroshi.

Thinking about this more just seems to have confused me even more.

because the format is subject は actor に verb in passive form?

私は弟にケーキを食べられました。

What? That is not implied or stated anywhere. In that phrasing, someone let her go 行かせて and she received that favour もらった。

It is no different than the common structure used to ask permission: ～させていただけませんか？May I receive (いただく・もらう) the favour of being allowed to ~. Here, she would have been granted that favour.

If I am wrong, please explain how.

に can mark destination

its おこなう　i thought

oh fuck i figured out why i was so confused. i thought it said おこなう.
She just said she went いく

I am loling at this kaiwa fampai.

hey i recall seeing something here once about getting a texthooker to output into your internet browser so you can use rikaisama instead of some translation aggregator. i couldn't find anything like that in the guide, any y'all niggas know what i'm talking about?

It's just a common structure dude. Super common anime scene:

A:このケーキ美味しいよ！
B:イチゴ食べさせてもらう
A:ひどいよ！最後の楽しみにしてたのに！

It's got a different feel if you phrase it as a question.

detail.chiebukuro.yahoo.co.jp/qa/question_detail/q1351369598
This is the first result for "させてもらう"

That would make no sense. おこなう is a transitive verb that does not imply locomotion.

I'm sure you are familiar with the (noun implying action) + に + (verb of locomotion: 行く、来る) structure.

pastebin.com/DgZ84qwk

yeah its late and ive been reading mostly nhk easy stuff

time to take dirtnap

I see what the confusion is.

In your example, B is saying "I'll just help myself to this strawberry..." using the non-past form. That would certainly be interpreted that way.

行かせたもらった, however, clearly states the she did, in fact, receive the favour of being allowed to go. Permission doesn't enter into it.

If B in your example had snatched up and eaten the strawberry before A could stop him, たべさせてもらった could only be interpreted sarcastically "Thanks for the strawberry!", "I never gave you the strawberry, asshole".

I think you're trying to apply a special social usage to the general case. I see what you're saying, though.

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Hmm maybe not the best example actually but anyway the point is it's often used like "I will take your implicit permission (without necessarily actually getting permission) and perform the action"

Plenty of examples here though
ejje.weblio.jp/sentence/content/させてもらう

As you can see, it can even be used in situations that the other party might not like so much like
>私は一つ忠告させてもらうよ
>でも自分の権利を主張させてもらう、外に出て会議をするぜ

thanks, comrade.

...

The same type of usage is used in past tense though. I suppose it's not strictly negative, but more just completely neutral, and doesn't really imply permission any more than おかげさまで implies the other person actually did something to help you.

The same type of usage is used in past tense though. I suppose it's not strictly negative, but more just completely neutral most of the time, and doesn't really imply permission any more than おかげさまで implies the other person actually did something to help you. Which just means I would find it slightly awkward in the sentence we are discussing.

I guess we've just been exposed to different content. I have seen many textbooks which use ～させてもらった in a unambiguous manner to mean that someone was allowed to do something and perceives that as a favour.

係
孫

The second one has 子 in it, though, so it shouldn't be that hard to tell them apart. So child + thread + one = grandchild.

I wish all Kanji is graphically intuitive.

...

who is that chibi, reveal your secrets

They are mostly phonetically intuitive through their 形声文字 construction, so be thankful for that.

If you really want an example of a "Holy fuck, why would you do that"-type writing system, take a look at Tangut script.

"The [Tangut] language is remarkable for being written in one of the most inconvenient of all scripts, a collection of nearly 5,800 characters of the same kind as Chinese characters but rather more complicated; very few are made up of as few as four strokes and most are made up of a good many more, in some cases nearly twenty. It is extremely difficult to remember them, since there are few recognizable indications of sound and meaning in the constituent parts of a character, and in some cases characters which differ from one another only in minor details of shape or by one or two strokes have completely different sounds and meanings."

It could be much, much worse.

Kaede from Sakura Trick

>tfw you know the pronounce instantly
>tfw you know the meaning instantly
>tfw your stalking in japan finally pays off

thanks

Hello, newfag here
I got started around 3-4 days ago and I'm trying to memorize hiragana before getting into the actual vocabulary because I have shit memory, am I doing the right thing? If not, should I try doing something else?

>4 days and still learning hiragana

just give up

That's the right thing. Don't worry so much about having them perfectly down though, just get them basically and move on. You're going to be seeing the characters enough that you won't be able to not learn them.

できるよ

I see, thanks user! I'll try to move on!

You're so dekinai you can't even take the most basic of steps on the path of learning this language without second-guessing yourself and asking people to help you. Just give up.

>taking 4 days to memorize hiragana

lmao

うそつき

うそだ！

こんばんは

意地悪なぁ。。

screenshot-format=png
screenshot-template="~/%F[%P]_[%td.%tm.%tY][%tH:%tM:%tS]"
screenshot-high-bit-depth=no

You're welcome.

wew

それは何を言うのですか？

Do you guys ever just kick back and relax and listen to something while lying in bed?

Ever since watching anime regularly my listening has gone up a bunch. Listening is much easier than reading imo.


Also whoever keeps making the op can you make one with maki please?

こんばんは、猫さん

>normies
Fuck off.

Posters for sale. The photo in your pic is an exhibition poster by Richard Avedon who submitted it in 1995 at an exposition at Milano, where he represented the US.

Maki has a girlfriend, she doesn't want you, so could you fuck off and stop harassing her already?

There's no regular person making all the OPs. It's just random people using random images they made/liked.

>
Thank you. Couldn't read most of it, only some.

Go to bed Nico.

Ahh I see

What's it from?