Basic Income

If we have universal basic income wont landlords and other businessmen just raise their rates accordingly? This is something I have great interest in as I am a blue-collar guy who will likely be obsolete or physically broken by my 50's.

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Same thing with Universal Healthcare. Companies won't have to pay for their employees HC= more $ in their pockets. My friendo thinks employers will give that raise to their employees, ahahahah.

low end white collar jobs will become obsolete before blue collar does

Everything is worth what people are willing to pay

One of the reasons why raising the mininum wage doesn't work.

>If we have universal basic income wont landlords and other businessmen just raise their rates accordingly?
A FUCKING L-

Wait, are you sure you're a leaf?

>what if we try collapsing the economy
>or actually keeping it from coming apart entirely for another few years
>but all the idiot communist kids who don't have any money will love it

Sounds gr8 m8

does any one know what a basic income actual is? it isn't free money, the money comes from your taxes, this will simply burden the hard workers for the gain of useless freeloaders

They'll raise rates to the maximum profit area, which won't eat up the entire basic income, but probably a large portion of it, leaving people slightly better off than before, but I doubt it will be enough to live off of.

No it doesn't. You fell for the Jewish lies. Your taxes don't fund anything. All the gibs are just more loans out of the Jewish central banks.

This was interesting to listen to on my commute last week.
abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-rutger-bregman/8883962

Really makes u think.

UBI is meant to give people in capitalism alternative to welfare money, so instead of welfare they get a salary for which they can buy houses and open up businesses. It's meant as motivation instead of welfare, since for welfare you can't buy anything than food and only survive, not thrive. UBI was used in Kenya to motive people to work, since they lived in literal huts before and couldn't do shit.

Archived that for you unvis.it/abc.net.au/radio/programs/conversations/conversations-rutger-bregman/8883962

Small minimum raise increases help to maintain balance. This method works and it works well. The ones who are completely full of shit are the left-wing fools who think you can take minimum from $10 to 15 just like that and everyone will be middle-class.

Basic income seems to be a more well thought-out, but hey I'm an electrician not an economist

>Dude what if everybody just relied on the government for handouts

Not with good socialist programs like rent control and price freezes!
This is why government should control all economy to make it fair for everyone

>buy houses
>open up businesses
Let us be clear. These are human trash unwilling to work.

>"Where do we get the money?"
>"Uhh, from the rich?"
>"Okay, after the rich runs out of money?
Every fucking time after that question is just some socialist babble.

The ABC doesn't have Ads.

I don't think UBI is feasible. They'll just have to expand the welfare state by heavily taxing automated industries. There is never going to be enough money to give everyone a middle class lifestyle for free.

>Basic income seems to be a more well thought-out
Until we run out of free gibs.

Dingdingding!!!

Everybody works/learns when you pay them enough money, don't you see what Germany is doing? For Africans half European salary is more than in Africa. But what Germany is doing is not UBI, they are creating future debt slaves, since welfare has to be repaid, if not before, than after your death with your property like house.

Weak bait. Plz try again and this time a little more subtle.

no because you haven't increased demand nor decreased supply, you've simply replaced welfare with non-means-tested welfare

So Germany is enslaving niggers while it sells its own people down the road. Yeah, that's great.

Go eat zyklon and gas yourself.

I think the big thing about a basic income is that the homeless wont starve to death, even if prices go up, because something is still significantly more than nothing.

I imagine over all prices in the long run in accordance to wages being made wont change for anyone. You will pay more money, but you will also be making more money. Inflation at the benefit of making sure people don't starve.

It will only work if it is a substitute for welfare. No food stamps, rent help, free medical care, ect off the backs of working folk. And if the blacks and browns spend it stupidly, let them starve.

Have you ever met a homeless person? Very few are homeless or starving because they can't get gibs.

Lets say you are the landlord of nigger tier properties

Your market is only niggers in basic income, if you push your rents up they will not be able to pay it and you dont earn anything. But yes, middle class rents wouls go uo

Nope, this applies only for white people who pass on their work ethics from generation to generation. Chinks maybe too. But it won't work with niggers, muslims and other subhuman scum, since they're too stupid and lazy to get shit done.
On the other hand, white people/asians get stuff done without UBI, so it's just another slippery slope to feed niggers and make them even more dependant on gibbs and also help them to breed even more useless niglets which need some of dem gibbs.

Or hire me as your property manager because technically it's only the landlord that's not supposed be racist.

>hey I saw your listing
>I gots a chillun
>do you accept section 8
[waiting a few days to reply intensifies]
Sorry, the property is already taken

If my only two choices are
1. The poor, and only the poor, get handout money from the government, literally rewarding people for not working or
2. Absolutely everyone without exception gets the same amount of "free" money from the government,

Then my answer is 2. But "better than welfare" is a low bar.

They are just creating more GDP with inflation, since once you or Trump owns housing and prices go up decades after, then you become rich, so this economy works, then you can rent out and have low risk anybody buying your property or be a threat in your monopoly. If you compete well enough, some day Google will come and buy you then and you will be happy you got that extra money, while economy will always be run by few international globalists. It's rewarding, but not for most of people. Germany isn't enslaving niggers, they are giving niggers more than they could ever have in niggerland, they are enslaving white people, but key point here is that when it all crashes down they will be long dead, it's future people's problems, profit is now. Banks will move, future elites will move, while Germans may have a civil war or become nigger land, who cares, it's future. Money makers don't see races, they aren't racists, they actually don't care about any race.

that's the point. but UBI may never be realistic because it always exceeds the already ridiculous welfare bill.

what would work is a negative income tax. no tax brackets, just a tax rate that scales linearly (up to a limit) with income, ensuring that a person getting promoted is guaranteed to be better off than in his previous position. the tax rate will have a crossover point where someone making little or nothing gets subsidized. replace welfare with this, and maybe get rid of the minimum wage.

>There is never going to be enough money to give everyone a middle class lifestyle for free.

Maybe not, but right now working a low-paying job isn't much better than welfare. A supplement so that a low-earning service worker could at least afford an apartment wouldn't be a terrible thing if we could figure out some sensible way to do it.

The love of money is the root of all evil. I'd like you to come here and give speeches about how much niggers benefited on the whole from slavery.

You might peg the lulz meter for a bit.

What is this then? Also count in illegals.

Or maybe the Henry Ford model of paying the workers enough to afford the products they produce, and including a free book about the Jews with each purchase.

>middle class lifestyle for free

from what i have read the idea is it would be a small amount , say 900 a month at most , , but the left would want more than that i guess

>It will only work if it is a substitute for welfare

Think that is the idea

The way i have heard it is it's for if the Job market collapses and half your population can't find work , it's about giving those people basic stuff to live on otherwise society becomes unstable and a communist revolution happens

If automation does that is another matter

So what, increasing the minimum wage?

The communist revolution is already underway. It's to make sure the underclass can still eat and be happy enough to not revolt.

It's nothing more than buying off more time while transitioning the "useless eaters" off the conveyor belt to death that will be administered by the medical industry. Net effect mass population reduction per UN Agenda 21 / 2030.

No, not more Communism. Less Communism. Break up the cartels and the monopolies, end corporate gibs, and change the incentive structure so that corporations actually have to compete and figure out how to sell what they produce at a profit, meaning they need to collectively pay enough to ensure that supply will meet demand.

Command and control economies are a get rich quick scheme, but are ultimately self-destructive except in the eyes of the technocrats, Jews, and transhumanists.

You aren't gonna get companies to pay the lowest-paid workers enough to afford accommodation you fucking spiv. What are you going to do, ask them nicely?

P.S. this wouldn't even be an issue if Amerijews hadn't made multigenerational homes a terrible taboo.

No. I'm going to end corporate welfare and simply enforce existing law. You have to understand that competition means sink or swim, not Jew banker tricks and rigging the system for free government gibs.

If you think UBI or minimum wage aren't just more market rigging you're a dolt.

Indeed! Our housing situation is fucked up. If we can see a silver lining in the NEETs and the basement dwellers it's that it really does make sense for the family unit to be the main form of communitarianism.

>nagative income tax. no tax brackets
thats what Trump wants to do, and the nigs dont understand it. Id rather pay 0 fed tax then make over 50,000 and get raped by the fed tax. Luckily I live in a very well maintained state and county, so I dont have to worry about my State ramping up taxes if this goes through.
The UBI wont work in the US. It could maybe work for individual States to do something like this. I guess they already do with "grants"

>Landlords
You're talking economics when you're incapable of even saving for a house. You expect me to trust a guy who pays someone for the privilege of not having to sleep in the rain?

Money doesn't exist, it's just a bunch of made up numbers in a giant Jewish computer.

Yeah. And what about negative income tax?

You're paying the bank absurd amounts of markup for that privilege too. It's all fucked up.

...

You know, sometimes I'm really bummed I wasn't of college age for modern Sup Forums. Imagine showing up to econ class riding on 1/4 tab of acid and raising my hand and saying

>MONEY DOESN'T EXIST
>IT'S JUST A BUNCH OF NUMBERS IN A GIANT JEWISH COMPUTER

and then laying in to an argument with a high-profile economist in front of the whole auditorium

>tethered to one location
>tie up hundreds of thousands in liquidity
>pay half a rents worth in property taxes
>this is considered sound investment advice in the emu kingdom

Basic income would basically take $1000 as an amount of money and declare it the new $0.
Prices will adjust as taxes adjust, and the poor pay proportionately more tax while the rich guys leave the country.

Why do we need any income tax, whether it's negative or positive? These are band-aids.

I visited Viet Nam as it was coming out of the poverty of Communism, and one thing was so striking. They were so much more free market than the US. They just went out and busted their asses to make a living any way they could figure out how to.

Their main complaint? How the government would come crush them if they didn't have all the right licenses, and how it was outlawing certain trades, etc.

It's still much much cheaper in the long run and I get far more freedom in my own home than living in someone else's home.

>Can't have pets without permission
>Can't do basic household maintenance without permission
>Can't even install a fucking security system without permission
>Have nothing to show for it once you leave
>Still costs more than buying your own place
Wow you're right I can really see the benefits now.

This is why you need an automated society with enough production to be approaching post-scarcity for it to work.

blame the social justice warriors.
You cant compare them to the US. We had to deal with a fucking Civil Rights crisis and its completely transformed are fucking society. The Chink countries keep the non-chinks out, and thats why they always will survive.

Not true if there are really people that needs UBI

They'll raise it to whatever the fuck people are willing to pay. Landlords are far from kings

>unrented house burns hole in wallet
>good tenant who doesn't cause any problems needs to be retained as long as possible

Landlords are also your customers. I pay 1200 a month for a place that would go for 1800 easy if he put it back on the market. But he likes my bantz and never having to do shit for me except collect rent and drink moonshine with me or worrying about any damage ever. If we got ubi I'd probably toss in an extra 200 a month to be nice and that's it.

There are still millions in Vietnam who suffer from a genuine lack of equal opportunity. Small doses of socialism can have a great effect in these circumstances. E.g. an ounce of prevention. But you're right in saying the greatest cause of suffering is government inefficiency, bureaucracy and niche monopolies.

I'm with you on that. A small amount of socialism to lend a hand to people who got dealt a bad hand.

Because if you want a government to operate the military, the police, the fire department, infrastructure, whatever... the government needs to be able to raise funds.

>They just went out and busted their asses to make a living any way they could figure out how to.
Sounds lovely. Did they also live in dog kennels like some of the working poor of Hong Kong?

>would come crush them
For using gutter grease?

>Can't find a good fucking landlord.
>wastes life resources on pets

We don't need to keep bird eating spiders to scare the rockfish away around here

you raise basic income and you cut off heads of businessmen and lanlords if they raise prices. learn proper marxism.

Maybe in a far off future where almost everything is automated, and the stuff that isn't is considered "artisan crafted" or some shit.

>Did they also live in dog kennels like some of the working poor of Hong Kong?
It wasn't always the nicest, but for the most part if you've ever been to a 3rd world country the living conditions even in the countryside were alright. Peeps who live real nigga hours tend to appreciate that they mutually value having some comforts and community even if they're not extravagant.

>For using gutter grease?
Nah for like operating a food stand in the city without having paid for a permit and some government stooge comes and tips it over while everybody is watching and tells the dude to get out before he gets arrested, or destroying the lucrative sitlo industry in Saigon because it doesn't appear to be as first world as it should -- very sad, this, as I will always remember watching the strange constellations in the sky as some crazy drunk was wheeling me around and then almost got into a bike accident and started spewing an angry river of morphemes I'll never understand.

>the fire department, infrastructure, whatever
>the government needs to be able to raise funds.
Correct. That's what fees and tariffs are for at the federal level. Local stuff like utilities and schools are a matter of local taxes like sales taxes. I'm not so sure about property taxes, but that's another one to put into the general discussion to figure out what's the right way to get things done.

So everything will cost $1000 more? Man it's gonna suck having to floss my asshole with $1001 asshole floss after eating that $1008.99 chimichanga

>be working wilson
>the (((state))) takes 50%+ of my paycheck
>then gives a % to lazy larry who doesnt work
>further devaluating my already lowered income

Guess who thinks free gibs is good.

What fees?

That's not how economics work anymore. State can print money and as long as there's an expectation that it will be spent the inflation from it will be cosmetic. The most valuable asset is a penniless nigger who will buy $100 grand worth of shit on credit that he'll refinance into perpetuity. That's why they import so many sand nigs.

UBI makes perfect sense in this world, shitskins are already halfway on it. Tether it to good behavior and bmi and you'll recoup it through prison and Healthcare costs alone.

This. They are going to China because White workers refuse to work 17 hour alongside their 10 year old kids days in unsafe factories for pennies an hour.

If you want to be 'competitive,' you need to be willing to work 19 hour days for even less, and you need to bring your 10 year old son to work with you, along with your 14 year old daughter for your boss to fuck on his break.

Too many fees to list. Cost me like $15bux last time I went to the local magistrate to file a civil suit pro se.

Somebody has to pay for the services that the government provides, and it's a toll booth economy the whole way if you've ever tried to use it.
>do you want to pay for a copy of this docket?
>do you want to pay for a copy of this police report?
>do you want to buy a tax stamp to own a fully-automatic firearm?
>would you like to drive on this toll road?
on and on
>or do you want to plunk down a $10k retainer for this lawyer to do it for you and then pay more fees?

I don't believe you'll be able to fund a military using only tariffs and fees taken by central government.

I believe our Constitution was implemented as a replacement to our Articles of Confederation so as to be able to raise the funds for a military sufficient to win the American Revolutionary War against the biggest, baddest, empire of the day.

t. Ecobomically illterate retard

It is the current year.

If you have no job, you go on Gibs role. You get access to state housing for a total of 12 months per lifetime. You get minimum amount of cash for food. If you test positive for drugs, you lose place on Gibs role. You lose right to vote. You get access to state assistant who helps you find job. State assistant has liberal guidelines to terminate this assistance if it becomes clear you're work shy. If economic conditions are bad enough, and jobs are not available you can be put on state work program for a little extra money.

Socialized Healthcare has 5% excess on all medical care for all citizens, and a cap of $500,000 per lifetime. This helps deter retards from clogging up the system, and the state from paying for multimillion dollar treatment and support for the grossly disabled.

This is how it should run, in stark contrast to our current system of giving houses, food and socialized Healthcare for all those that ask.

The goal is to give everyone an equal opportunity. Deter people who cost extreme amounts of money damaging state housing, being terminally on welfare or being cripplingly retarded and soaking up millions of Healthcare dollars. At the same time it saves taxpayers an enormous amount through incentives ingredients work. Taxes can be lowered to balance this and encourage work further.

About 100 years ago, we had another counter-revolution known as the Third or Fourth National Bank of America, depending on how you want to count it. We call it the "Federal Reserve Bank" these days.

Since then, the system of government funding was shifted from protective tariffs and fees to an income tax, while simultaneously trapping us into and endless debt ponzi scheme. The entire thing, dating back to when we were still English colonies was always just a weath extraction operation.

We live in a consumption oriented economy. All mass production bottlenecks have been solved or are 5-10 years away from being solved. The amount of shit we can produce by pressing buttons or whipping chinks absolutely dwarfs the amount of shit we can exchange for money by begging, bamboozle and bedazzling people to buy.

We've reached the point where companies/warehouses/financial institutions are absolutely desperate to get people to spend money. Even if they lose money in the process they can write it off, or make more money by moving inventory, or get a "golden customer" who will make them money in the future. I get probably $20k a year worth of free shit from credit card/banking promotions that only make money if I don't follow the rules (I do since I'm not a nigger), warehouses/stores looking to unload/clear inventories, groupons for 75% off, financing, referrals, etc. Just playing their stupid fucking jew games and helping them move money and stuff around so their itty bitty parcels of the global economy don't grind to a stop.

UBI would be ridiculously good for the economy. It doesn't make sense in Ancap memeland but we don't live in Ancap memeland anymore. Nigs already get UBI, people who don't contribute shit are already by and large taken care of. Now make UBI contingent on staying felony free and under 20% BF and you'll be on your way to solving societal ills. Fucking peg it to whatever you want, people will become ubermensch for a free $1000 a month.

>basic income

lol not happening in the US. let's say the idea is to provide every adult taxpayer (122 million people) with $12,000 per year as UBI. that would cost 1.4 trillion dollars per year. that's way more than even the whole military budget. not happening.

Aside from the monopoly money aspect, there's another fuckhuge elephant in the room. Main point of UBI is to replace welfare altogether. No one seems to consider there are people that require more than UBI could possibly provide - expensive treatments or 24h medical attention, single mothers, every form of bailout a consumer is protected by.

If those forms of aid should be even a thing is a topic for whole another discussion, the point is these days you cannot try to remove those without getting impaled on a pitchfork. Which means in worst case scenario you end up with both UBI and welfare on top of it. I can already smell the mud cookies.

t. working Wilson who hasn't actually figured out how the jew world order operates in 2017.

>Basic income implemented
>rent is now standard + the amount of BUI
>B-b-b-bernie what is happening, that isn't 'Only Fair©'
> h-how come nobody ever thought about that
>t-that wasn't real socialism

>UBI would be ridiculously good for the economy.
MY FELLOW AMERICANS
THESE 9/11 TERRORISTS DID A TERRIBLE THING
BUT WE WILL NEVER WAIVER IN OUR WAR ON TERROR
WHAT WE NEED YOU TO DO
IS GO OUT AND BUY THINGS
HEH HEH HEH HEH

Sounds expensive; all those drug testers, pen pushers, "assistants", advisors, managers to organise pothole-digging, and diverse other apparatchik. You are likely end up spending more on this scheme of finger-wagging than you save on the people you can throw off welfare.

>being terminally on welfare
Get cancer faggot.

Fees are going to have to be pretty fucking high in this age.

>and transhumanists
please tell me more

UBI would work if we kicked out the niggers and spics.

Of course, nobody will kick out the spics. There's a reason Republicans don't do it even when they control the government; for all of their winking and nodding at the redneck base, the minute they're safely in office, they always, ALWAYS conveniently find a 'conscience,' because their Jew donors don't want to lose their supply of cheap, expendable labor. This is exactly why the cuckservative establishment are showing their true colors now. Trump got elected because the base started to see through their bullshit, and elected someone who really WILL do it, and the Wall Street kikes are panicking.

Same thing with Obamacare. If you really think Republicans were going to bite the hand Big Pharma hand that feeds them, I have a bridge to sell you.

>rent is now standard + amount of BUI
>food is now standard + amount of BUI
>cars now get financed for standard + amount of UBI
>blowjobs from crackheads on the streetcorner now cost standard + amount of UBI
>$1000 in UBI will make everything else cost $1000 more
>laws of capitalism where everything costs depending on circumstances for being able to sell that particular product while competing with everyone else and being able to find customers no longer apply because reasons
>this makes sense to the ancaptard

It will take a while, but cut the massive gibs and the fees can go back to actually paying for services. If you consider for instance how much money the Golden Gate Bridge brings in every day, it's way more than the cost of maintaining the bridge. That's just a feeder for a government slush fund so sexual deviants can buy child slaves, drugs, expensive houses, and appear at parties.

It's the tariffs that make up the funding while we hack down the useless dead weight.

>transhumanists
Why do you think UBI is always attached to automation? It's the way to keep the slaves satisfied while they're sterilized, left to die, and replaced by their robot overlords.

Have you not been paying any attention at all?

If you pay them not to nig it's already an improvement even if you can't kick them out.

> lose UBI if you abandon kids = single dad issue solved
> lose UBI if you go to jail = less niggers chimp out
> lose UBI if youre a fat greasy spic = your family beats you until you're skinny

>hey you now have all this free time to dedicate to learning how to run da revolution instead of working 12 hours a day
>this will keep the slaves pacified

Nigger if you live a paid semi-neet lifestyle and don't make anything of it it's not Shekelstein's fault.

> lose UBI
> lose UB
> lose U
Pick one, mate.

My understanding is you can get free booze and a decent stipend running Shekelsteins Alinsky revolution, and you even get to break stuff and loot with immunity. Spoils of war?

That's basically UBI already.

it's funny. you think you're making a point but you just show how underdeveloped you are for this topic.

>If we have universal basic income wont landlords and other businessmen just raise their rates accordingly?
Depends. If you just print more money then yes, if you restructure the budget, no. Look at SNAP, it hasnt driven food prices up. Its actually been helpful to the economy, generating billions in economic growth.

>there's niggers in this thread who unironically don't see the fallacy in believing landlords will just tack on UBI to their rent.

You dumbasses legitimately deserve to be wage slaves for life.

SNAP tampered food prices by dumping money into the food companies to keep costs down
>ca-ching!
And making it uneconomical for small outfits to operate
>wink-wink!
While Shaniqua buys 100 gallons of soda every weekend to keep the game going and raise 18 more niglets because she needs ta spen her cheks or else dem gib go away

You really don't live in the real world, do you?