Sayaka should have just accepted the damn grief seeds...

Sayaka should have just accepted the damn grief seeds. She could have helped Homura with Walpurgis night and everyone might have survived. Sayaka is a baka.

Didn't Homura say before that she was already beyond saving?

And there is also no way to win against Walpurgisnach, Homura herself made sure that the thing kept getting stronger and stronger. During the 1st timeline it already took Mami and Madoka's lifes, and that was when it was at its weakest. Sayaka can do jack shit against Walpurgis with just those swords she swings around and throws.

That would imply Sayaka is capable of not being honto baka.

>Didn't Homura say before that she was already beyond saving?

She meant that Sayaka couldn't be saved once she became meguca. Even if they defeated Walpurgisnacht, they would have still eventually become witches.

>Homura herself made sure that the thing kept getting stronger and stronger
Walpurgis remained unchanged in the loops. You're thinking of Gretchen, which is Madoka's witch.

There's no way to win against Walpurgis because hundreds of history's most powerful witches in one conglomerate. It's the inevitable conclusion for magical girls. That's why a Walpurgis exists, but no magical girl equivalent does to stop it. This is part of why a rewrite of the universe had to happen with goddess Madoka.

>There's no way to win against Walpurgis because hundreds of history's most powerful witches in one conglomerate.
Nice head canon. Madoka defeats her every time. Unless you want to believe Walmartnight just disappears after killing Mado.

>She will turn all of fate's misfortune to nothing.
>She will flood the earth with magic,
and take all of humankind into her play.
>A moving stage construction.
If everything is a play, no unhappy things will exist.
>It may be a tragedy, but it'll all be part of the script.
>The play stops on Walpurgisnacht,
and the earth does not turn even once more.
>The story will not change.
>Tomorrow, and the day after, is the night of Walpurgis.
>Clara dolls have a similar theme
>Concept movie line: You don't have to curse anyone anymore. You have... me...

So by denying salvation and choosing to restart samsara, has Homura effectively become the new Walpurgisnacht? If so, does this mean that Madoka will end up taking on Homura's grief and pain?

No, Madoka dies every time. Yes, Walpurgis would disappear rather quickly. It rarely shows itself as it is, and it wouldn't just hang out in a destroyed city with no magical girls.

Good, good.

> Yes, Walpurgis would disappear rather quickly. It rarely shows itself as it is, and it wouldn't just hang out in a destroyed city with no magical girls.
Once again, nice fucking head canon.

Why was it Sayaka's fate to die?

It's everyone's fate to die. The second they become magical girls, they're going to die.

Madoka gets to the point that she can oneshot Walpurgisnacht, but she instantly goes witch afterwards.

She was Shinbo's favorite so butcher's gonna butcher.

The last scene with her and Madoka, she could have just said the word and she'd get her life back, cripple boy would re-cripple, and hitomi could go suck a bag of dicks. winwinwin.

Because she makes stupid decisions. Instead of listening to others' advices or accepting the grief seeds offered to her, she decides to become a depressed mess.

>The last scene with her and Madoka, she could have just said the word and she'd get her life back, cripple boy would re-cripple, and hitomi could go suck a bag of dicks. winwinwin.

The only thing Homura did wrong was showing kindness to this bitch post-splitting.

It's just a logical conclusion.Why would you assume it dies when we never see it die? It's the most powerful witch, known in history books by name as Walpurgisnacht. No one is seen ever putting a dent into it. Not even final time line Homura, who had the weaponry and attack power of a magical girl army.

Hitomi is undeserving of her hate.

Why would you assume it didn't die? Kyubey told them to train to defeat it. He gets nothing out of it if they don't turn into witches.

Completely agree.

In fact, they clearly win in timeline 2. Madoka just becomes a witch in the end.

If she would have made a selfish wish, she probably would have survived. I think that was the overall lesson from her character arc. Her selfless pursuit of justice led to self destruction. It's basically the same deal as EMIYA and Saber, but in a super condensed and easier to digest form. I wonder if her sword motif is just a coincidence.

Sayaka is the worst, and she gets better girls killed, the baka

She was beyond saving from being a magical girl. Madoka hadn't realized yet that Magical Girls can't just fight witches by night and go on with their normal lives by day like they're Buffy the Vampire Slayer or something. It's No One Listens to the One Person Who Knows What is Going On: the Anime.

Her wish had nothing to do with her justice bullshit, though. She thought if she fixed him he'd love her, instead it just freed him to be with the rich girl. Then she found out she's basically a zombie. We also see in the flashbacks to other timelines that she is always this retarded and beyond Homura's help.

Problem is the One Person Who Knows What is Going On goes out of her way to look like a super suspicious person that no one in their right mind would trust.

God Madoka undid all the Witches, remember?

If she wanted him to love her, she should have wished for him to become her boyfriend. The last scene with her and Madoka together that she truly just wanted him to be able to play his violin.

>It's No One Listens to the One Person Who Knows What is Going On: the Anime.
Homura saves everyone and that makes her the bad guy, remember?

>Moemura
>Suspicious

To be fair, he's a douche and she was revived. She kinda dodged a bullet there.

No, she was already dead, that was pretty much a ghost. Madoka undid the Witches so that when Magical Girls deplete their soul gems, the gem just breaks and their soal goes to Madoka Heaven. Madoka doesn't have the power to restore the dead to life, she just has the power to release them and let them die peacefully instead of being consumed.

Kind of begs the question 'why didn't Homura just off herself afterward' but it worked out since Homura had to stop Kyube from harming God Madoka once Kyube figured it all out.

>he;s a douche
Nah, he's just obsessed with his violin and Hitomi's a clingy bitch.

Why exactly does everyone treat Moemura like shit exactly? Her classmates are making fun of her for being functionally crippled in timeline 1.

>why didn't Homura just off herself afterward
Because she chose to believe it was better to carry on Madoka's wish. Wraith Arc proved her wrong and it makes it seem like she would have been better off dying.

Sayaka even says he doesn't deserve soimeone like Hitomi and puts the blame on him for Hitomi's nightmare.

Didn't you pay attention? Madoka asks Sayaka if she wants to be revived, to which Sayaka says that it's fine like this because she got to see him play.

Sayaka says that because she lost
>heh, she was better anyway, she's also too good for him
Doesn't mean she actually means it.

Not in the previous timelines. Did you even watch the show? She tried over and over to become a strong magical girl and get the other girls to understand what is really going on. When Mami finally believes her in one timeline, she just goes murder crazy as a result. Madoka is the only magical girl beside Homura with any sense.

Finally Homu decides that she has to do everything herself and just strong arm this shit.

She very clearly was upset that she lost him, and that now that she's a zombie magical girl she'll never have him, or anyone.

That postmortem scene with God Madoka was Sayaka coming to terms with her fate and being put to rest. She dead, nigga. This isn't 'The Different Story'.

And she says it in Rebellion again. It's very much implied Kyousuke's a toolbag.

Thank you based Akuma-sama.

She was upset yeah, but that was not the main reason she despaired, she started going downhill after the revelation that she had no soul.

Also, Madoka could have prevented Sayaka's death, but she chose not to because she respected Sayaka's wish of making it possible for Kyousuke to play the violin. It was never about getting the love of the boy (though people in love wish to be with their loved ones whether they consciously do so or not)

Madoka rekts Walpurgis in one shot.

You know who else is a baka, OP?

Madoka defeats her in every timeline, even in first one. That's why Homura is alive to contract.

>Madoka is the only magical girl beside Homura with any sense
Kyoko seemed pretty reasonable with her.

In the anime they didn't make fun of her exactly, they just pitied her, and she had low self esteem because she was behind in school and couldn't do any of the things other kids were good at. I've not read the manga so I don't know if she gets bullied in that. Japanese culture puts a lot of emphasis on social responsibility and is very demanding, and a lot of people who fall short beat themselves up more than bullies do. There's nothing worse than being pitied.

At first she wasn't a very good magical girl and so they were nice to her but didn't take her seriously. In timelines where she was getting better they found her a bit threatening and preferred delusion over the truths she was telling, which is true of most people in real life in case you haven't noticed.

In one timeline Mami is still alive when she realizes some of what Homura was saying wasn't bullshit, and she freaks out and tries to murder her friends so they won't become Witches.

Mami and Sayaka in particular seem rather emotionally driven and mentally feeble. You can't just fix people, you know?

I said it before, it's not that Kyousuke is a bad boyfriend, it's that Hitomi is a clingy bitch. What's so abnormal about her boyfriend following his hobbies? We even get a shot of the two on a cute date.

Until she offed herself on an impulse because she felt bad for Sayaka.

>says she has no regrets when she died
>all of a sudden she does have one regret and that's leaving behind the bitchy girl that tried to murder her
This makes no sense. I guess Homura read too much fanfiction.

Why be mean to Hitummy? It is all Kyousukes fault.

Kyousuke did nothing wrong. It's not his fault that he's so popular with the girls.

>Implying this is somehow new in the world of anime
It was Sayaka who initiated.

Who was talking about the previous timelines?

I'm talking about what happened in the timeline the show took place in, and Homura was undoubtedly acting like a suspicious person. She had her reasons, no doubt, but it doesn't change the facts.

>Finally Homu decides that she has to do everything herself and just strong arm this shit.

And how did that work out for her?

Context. She knew there was no winning them over because she tried in many previous timelines. You can't just ignore the implications of the flashbacks. Things weren't going to magically all fall into place for no reason when they never had before.

It worked out better than the other timelines because at least Madoka didn't waste her wish on something stupid. Homura stopped her from becoming a magical girl long enough for madoka to go into it with no illusions and for the right reasons.

Sayak learns that Kyouko always went out of her way to save her. She says she thought she had no regrets but she did have one, that she never showed Kyouko any gratitude

That's the Cassandra archetype for you. Blessed by the gods with the gift of prophecy, the cursed by the same for no one to ever believe her.

No one said that anything was going to magically fall into place.

If Homura wants them to at least not distrust her, which would help with her goal of saving Madoka, how she acts is important. It's not entirely her fault since she was totally maladjusted to start with and all the looping doesn't help, but facts are facts.

>It worked out better than the other timelines

True enough, but she didn't get what she actually wanted though.

The problem is that no one has any reason to believe her. Her whole story is far fetched, even in a world of magic, and even if hey believed the timeloop explanation, why would they believe that she's telling the whole truth and not just spinning the facts to manipulate them?

She already tried everything else, how are you not getting that? She tried being nice to them, she tried being direct, she tried showing them some proof, it always went badly.

Her strong imposing persona and directness with Madoka in the final timeline made the others mistrust her even more, but Madoka listened to her, she was able to stop Mami and Sayaka from dragging Madoka down with them. If she had tried to be everyone's friend it would have gone the way it had in a previous timeline.

Madoka was the only one sensible enough to ask Kyube questions. Kyube never really lies directly, it relies on half-truths and omission, taking advantage of people when they are in a compromised state so they are more pliable, and relying on their delusions. Most people hate truth.

Madoka is also the only one other than Homura that can handle the truth. The rest of the girls end up getting themselves killed as a result of breaking down into despair upon learning it.

How you say something is just as important as what you say if you want people to actually get it.

Homura continually fails in getting people to trust her because she's totally socially maladjusted to begin with and the looping only makes matters worse.

I honestly think Mami dying had more of an influence over Madoka not contracting to the end than anything Homura said though.

seeI'm done arguing with you.

Rebellion is fanfic tier garbage.
Just pretend it doesn't exist

I agree with u, the other person is a mumi and seyuku fag.

Thanks for the discussion!

Homura's social ineptitude is part of the problem, but even if she had a modicum of charisma, there are far too many other issues that would prevent her from succeeding.

>Mami dying
>Homura's breakdown
>Sayaka's witchification
Those all played major roles in her not contracting. But in the end she contracted because she felt it was her obligation to use the power she was given.

You may have a point, but we'll never really know.

That's part of the despair of the series to me, that the whole thing was basically rigged against these girls to start with, not just because of Kyubey, but because of their own issues

Exactly. There are simply too many variables in play; Homura cannot possibly hope to control them all. Outside of throwing all the girls in suspended animation for a month, forcing the evacuation of Mitakihara, and blowing up a nuke on Walpurgisnacht, there's no way she could have won.

So what is canon then?

Even when she does end up winning, she hates herself for it.

Because of the cost. Beyond the immense psychological toll the whole ideal has taken on her, she's given up any hope of having Madoka at her side. She got her goal of saving Madoka, but her methods cost her everything, and she hates that she was not strong enough to attain her goal without resorting to those methods.