This is a thread for the discussion of all ideologies that promote self-ownership, individual liberty and the natural order. These include (but are not limited to) anarcho-capitalism, paleolibertarianism, minarchy, objectivism and anti-leftism (i.e. physical removal, so to speak). All others are welcome to learn and debate us. Reminder that this is a right-wing thread, so libertine degenerates ('live and let live' faggotry), open-border advocates and faux-libertarians (e.g. Gary Johnson) are not welcome here - people here recognise that property rights imply discrimination and a return to traditional, conservative values. Although questions are welcome, many are repeated often, so it is recommended you research the basics first. Nobody here is obligated to debate with you, so try to avoid using fallacies in your arguments or creating unrealistic scenarios.
FURTHER READING: >Reference - See i.imgur.com/wCIpgNA.jpg >Torrent - magnet:?xt=urn:btih:8d8ec6ef882dee291f119eb69994797574e5d616&dn=Anarcho-Capitalism%20Books
THREAD THEME: >hoppewave | Hans-Hermann Hoppe | physical removal - youtube.com/watch?v=LP41IK91_qA >Against the State - (Hoppewave Hans Hermann Hoppe) - youtube.com/watch?v=HLaqr3QorCw >I need a Pinochet! - youtube.com/watch?v=zhrYY3ocQ5o >Drop it like it's Hoppe - youtube.com/watch?v=HPKGgo4kGQM
Never heard of him, but he sounds great. The growing number of respectable European libertarians give me hope.
Juan Taylor
>inb4 natsocs try to shit up the thread
Liam Williams
>YOU'RE ALL JEWS REEEEEEEEE >YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN CULTURE REEEEEE >CAPITALISM IS DEGENERATE REEEEEEEE >FUCK PRIVATE PROPERTY REEEEEEEE
Liam White
Hello lrg. Would like to pose an interesting question to all of you, just copypasting from a previous thread I made. How are you different from the National Socialists on pol, aside from having a different definition of 'socialism'?
The original NSDAP definition of socialism is radically different from our current understanding of the word. The original National 'Socialists' were not socialists, by the modern standard they would be radically capitalist, slashing welfare and talking about how unemployment benefits unfairly burden the economy. The National Socialists only used the word 'socialist' to appeal to the millions of communists living in Wiemar Germany.
National 'Socialists' should be calling themselves National Capitalists. Right Libertarians and National 'Socialists' have the same ideas, just different definitions of the word 'socialism'. Prove me wrong: research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/sofortprogramm.htm Original NSDAP economic program.
Let me refine the question a bit. If National Socialists were National Capitalists, where would you disagree with them?
Kayden Diaz
>shitting up your own thread, so nobody else can do it genius
Nathan Reed
You're so fucking wrong, natsocs want incredible state intervention in the economy. This image is from the link you gave. The nazis introduced paid maternity leave & vacation time, built roads, and created many public sector jobs. Natsoc is anticapitalist.
Justin Hall
I've just made a quick mix of the both, if you plan to use it outside of Sup Forums. It not looks as good as the original though
Gavin Watson
Here is my vision.
You're free to believe in national socialism and fighting for power in a revolutionary way, I don't mind that. I just prefer to think more globally, because all governments are extremely fickle, easily overthrown, and people tend to atone for their government's actions in the end. If you put all your faith in one government, one party, the disappointment can be great when it fails (let alone that it's extremely hard to attain power for NatSocs without any domestic and foreign pressure). I don't want to be a slave to illusions, I want to be someone who actually influences things.
It's ideas and values that rule the world. And I am not defeatist in that respect. I DO acknowledge the possibility of national socialist states in the future, I just don't trust them because states can be extremely short-lived, and just because you have state power doesn't mean that you'll change people's values in the long run. One coup, one war, one intervention, and it's all gone. That's why I believe it's necessary to change things globally, universally. The ultimate red pill is the understanding that people always seek the approval of each other, and their morality is purely subjective just because of that: they don't reason entirely logically, most of the time people consider things as good and bad just because others approve of that. We need to change the way people approve of things, and in turn we'll change the West.
William Perez
I am aware of what the link says. If you read the whole thing not nitpicking for a 'STATIST OMFG' moment, you can clearly see that they were more capitalist than the fucking Republicans are. >The nazis introduced paid maternity leave & vacation time, built roads, and created many public sector jobs. Yes, they also cut welfare to the bone and simply pointed people to unemployment offices, when the jobs at unemployment offices ran out, they created ones so people were doing something productive rather than sitting on their asses all day. That productivity creates demand. If Tyrone were told to go clean graffiti off the walls for his welfare payments, rather than getting them for doing nothing, he would raise property values and generate demand, rather than purely leeching. Natsocs would be attacked as radical capitalists today.
So are you a utopian? Because the idea that you're going to change the entire globe to agree with your ideal of stateless society is utopian. I'm not a Natsoc either, because the entire aesthetic is dead and the government was totalitarian. I fit within the ideal of a true paleoconservative, I agree with the founding fathers 100%, including their views of White Nationalism.
Ayden Ward
>So are you a utopian? Because the idea that you're going to change the entire globe to agree with your ideal of stateless society is utopian. It's used in the identitarian context, so it's not thar far-fetched: most of the word is totally fine with the idea of white autonomy, and the whole diversity and leftist thing is pushed from within the West. Change that and you change the world. The rest of the world is rather stale and impotent, to be honest.
In capitalism, the market creates jobs, The state creating jobs is not capitalist you fucking mongoloid. I have made you a graphic, because those are good ways of communicating with children.
>with your ideal of stateless society is utopian Besides, you misunderstood this part, I am not really an ancap, I just don't rely on the notion of the state too heavily, but I can't really envision the dissolution of the state
Ian Morgan
Why not align with them against the commies?
Aiden Russell
The lesser of two evils is still evil, and the enemy of my enemy is not my friend.
If you do not believe in individual private property rights, non-aggression, and voluntary association, I don't want to help you.
Jacob Evans
Awesome, he even has that sick-ass bowtie.
Austin Roberts
The commies get no support at all. It's fucking hilarious just waltzing in and shitposting to make them all buttmad.
Kevin Allen
How do we convince them otherwise, /lrg/?
Brody Morris
What is a good country to immigrate to? America fucking sucks.
Christopher Foster
I don't believe this poll. How diverse was that sample? How much of them were from big cities?
Nathan Collins
You don't. Americans are the least libertarian people in the world. The best we can do is give up on this awful country and emigrate to save ourselves.
Robert Jackson
...
Evan Long
>polls
Kayden Collins
...
Alexander Butler
Well, considering the source is "smartgunlaws.com," I would have my doubts as well. But that's besides the point; people want to take our funs.
How are we the least libertarian?
Adam Cox
>libertarian >right
Ethan Perez
>Hello! I am for the collectivization of the economy as well as the abolishment of voluntary association and trade. >I am also a libertarian.
Cameron Jones
>antifa poster
Logan Cook
This is Robert Higgs' advice to young people. Emigrate and save yourself from this country. Americans are beyond help.
Americans are dumb sheep who continuously surrender their rights when their government is already the most massive and most intrusive in the world.
Kayden Harris
post doesnt make any sense. Communism is just one of many revolutionary ideolgies. And so is libertarianism/anarchism neither does this one
Leo Hall
1) What is the difference between libertarianism and ancap? 2) Is the NAP enough for a society to function? 3) What is "aggression"? 4) Who enforces the NAP? 5) What can be done against local warlords? 6) What can be done against hostile non-libertarian/ancap countries?
Joseph Baker
The UK nanny state is much worse in my opinion. Congress may be full of imperialists, but we at least have a degree of personal and economic freedom that others don't.
Jeremiah Wright
...
Adrian Jones
daily reminder the corporatist state is the final form of economics daily reminder all internationalist and individualist WILL get lined up against the wall daily reminder libertarianism will never ever be thing outside of africa
Ethan Clark
By carrying actual fully automatic assault weapons on the street.
Isaac Collins
>t. failed ideology Enjoy your crippled economy from giving corporate handjobs to slackers who can't compete with the market.
Henry Nelson
Sounds good to me.
Owen Walker
What happens if and when Jews outcompete gentiles on the market?
Liam Anderson
Daily reminder that Mussolini was a manlet and a socialist, and unlike Hitler or Commander Rockwell, he died a VERY shitty death.
Daniel Cox
...
Alexander Smith
wow just btfo him hard, how will he ever recover
Liam Perez
What happens is that the Jews are proven to be competent businessmen that appeal to the market's desires, leading to a happy society with cheap luxuries.
Easton Ramirez
Isn't it time the government stepped in to solve the problem of food anarchy?
Adam Flores
The state, by definition, is the complement of any "corporations" that supposedly act on a private level. Thus, you're grinding your populace between the gear of the System operated by Jews, and its "market" wing of the "corporations", also largely operated by Jews. That's not "traditional", that's not "reactionary", that is tyranny and you'll get what tyrants get. Embrace the natural order, it is the only truly reactionary idea in existence. Read Hoppe.
Hunter Rodriguez
All that I needed to know, thanks.
Levi Young
He won't. A bunch of lefties seized him, shot him, and hung him at a gas station. Hitler commited suicide after all was lost - could have died a hero's death and become a martyr for the cause, but he rejected the opportunity. Rockwell was murdered out of the blue after a string of highly attractive activism and even networking with Black nationalists. He formulated a better refutation of communism than any old-school NatSoc ever could have, and his only shortcoming were his moral sentiments coming in the way of objective ethical standards of human cooperation.
At least the Latinx fascist dictators (and let's be real, Pinochet wasn't even a fascist) had good memes.
Owen Cruz
:thinking:
Bentley Myers
Eh, if they push the type of stuff they're pushing now, they won't outcompete the Gentiles. Even now they need the state to back them up.
Joseph Davis
Why do libertarians support a system that breaks down in the conceptualization phase? It's dumber than communism, and that's saying something.
Nathan Walker
what do you think of the NSDAP?
Samuel Roberts
>breaks down in the conceptualization phase? What? Capitalism is embedded into everything we hold dear. It's created the modern world.
Gavin Jackson
Their IQs are extremely high, so presumably they would be able to amass an impressive amount of resources and power for themselves either way.
William Campbell
thats that belgian he's using different flags.
Carson Adams
What is capitalism?
Eli Brown
socialist animals
Camden Bell
>What? Capitalism is embedded into everything we hold dear. It's created the modern world. Libertarianism and AnCap, you ding-dong. The ideology of "Oh, we'll all just hire private security forces and shit, it'll be perfect, it totally won't immediately devolve into a form of feudalism."
Grayson Perry
>socialist animals the NSDAP was not socialist the purged all socialist from the're party in the night of the long knives including strasser.
also tax redistribution is not socialism otherwise the military is the biggest welfare queen in the world and roads built with tax funded money is socialsim.
Adrian Bailey
The state is inefficient. Anything resembling it would fall to private entities. People wouldn't want to live under a (neo) feudal lord.
Carter Russell
are you the gadsen from the other /nsg/ tread?
Christopher Lewis
How was the question worded in the poll?
Kevin Scott
The military at least somewhat serves the citizenry, or it used to during monarchy. Taxation is, however, still theft.
David Nelson
So the jews that run russia tell putin to tell us not to do anything with NK while the jews here and in isreal want us to do something... i cant keep up with all the Jewery...iran practices missles we sell weapons to saudi arabia so who is arabia going to attack i know their religion and that 3rd temple is up so it run or rise ..goodluck figuring it out i give up ww3
Jack Gomez
No, I simply screencapped this "libertarian" from leftypol
Jaxon Robinson
That's largely due to them lacking a lower class, and also state-funded nepotistic organisations and college and job applications. When they're left to fend for themselves, their IQ will drop, and unless they're genocided by the Arabs, they'll improve their genetic stock, too. The best way to outjew the Jew is to turn him into an ordinary Semite, and Semites are largely inferior to whites.
Elijah Gutierrez
The modern world is largely tainted by egalitarian principles of democracy. Not much to brag about.
Carter Sullivan
>No, I simply screencapped this "libertarian" from leftypol
i made a tread about him and the recent influx of shills. he seems to be a regular shitposter on /nsg/ also i saw you in that tread.
Carter Anderson
>Taxation is, however, still theft.
can you elaborate?
Jaxson Hernandez
>grinding your populace the whole point is class cooperation and national unity. It will require sacrifices for the betterment of society as a whole. Its the only system that will ever deny the jews their subversive tricks. The only one will not place them at the top of society through ursury and internationalism. Autarky destroys them. I also find your bramblings about jews in a fascist society strange and ironic. The fact that libertarianism is jew: the ideolgy doesnt help. >muh tradition i never claimed to be a traditionalist >read hoppe rather kill myself desu
David Lopez
Freedom of association and disassociation, freedom of enterprise, no positive rights, only negative natural rights of man (defined by the natural law), the rule of land. Ethics of Liberty is a good read on the subject, not too long yet very informative.
Aiden Gray
>the NSDAP was not socialist >purged all socialist >tax redistribution is not socialism wrong
>military is the biggest welfare queen >roads built with tax funded money is socialism indeed.
Brandon Gomez
I didn't post there though, it was a different user
Joshua Gomez
Better than the Weimar democracy, and MUCH better than the (((Spartacist revolutionaries))) of '18. Freikorps are a militia of peace. However, the doctrine of NSDAP is still inferior to Hoppe's teachings.
Aiden Hall
>Libertarian >Right-wing
Did you not get the memo that the crypto-conservatives abandoned LP National to form the Tea Party? It happened 10 years ago, user.
Michael Gonzalez
>I didn't post there though, it was a different user oh alright.
>wrong elaborate?
>indeed. so you think that tax tation is socialism? what do you think of workers unions than?
Nathaniel Baker
>Freikorps are a militia of peace. no the whe're not the were a private army of thugs.>Hoppe's teachings. do you have any books of him? i'm intrested.
Carter Garcia
This helicopter faggotry needs to stop
Logan Smith
The use of force or threat of such to gain wealth from a target is commonly defined as theft. Since the law must be universally applied (that is implied in its definition a priori), the state does not get a free pass for stealing people's money using the threat of force. As such, all of its gains are illegitimate. When you account for all the dysgenic effects of state action, which I will not go into here (read Democracy - The God that Failed's first chapter), the notion that the state should enforce anything, let alone morality, is equivalent to saying that only the men serving life sentences for crimes against humanity should determine the national policy.
Nolan Powell
They will play us all against each other ww3. It's happening
