Didn't really want to make a thread about this because I know this is a sensitive topic but the only other Dragon Ball...

Didn't really want to make a thread about this because I know this is a sensitive topic but the only other Dragon Ball thread is dead so I had to make this one.

I have a theory that Kid Buu is actually stronger than base Super Buu, not sure about Buuhan though. I can't really say that Kid Buu is stronger than Buuhan without sounding retarded so I won't, I'll just stick to base Super Buu.

Basically, Buu, in his pure form, is able to use all his power. However, every time Buu absorbs a being, he gains the being's power but at the same time he loses his original pure power in a certain amount because absorbing causes Buu to become more and more "impure", and thus not able to tap into his pure power as much. As Buu absorbs more and more, he gains more power from the beings he absorbed, but loses his own pure power.

I thought about this while playing Dokkan Battle. Why are the Kid Buus consistently the strongest Buus and bosses if Super Buu and his absorptions are supposedly stronger (claimed only by the Western fanbase)? Why is Kid Buu stronger in every Dragon Ball game than Super Buu? Why is Kid Buu, the "final boss", supposedly weaker than Super Buu, when we know that the Japs always do the biggest bads last in their entertainment, television, anime, manga for the grand finale?

Super Buu was never stated to be stronger than Kid Buu, neither in DB or by Toriyama. Thus, Super Buu being stronger than Kid Buu is not actually canon, just a bullshit Western fanbase fanfiction theory.

If you asked Toriyama about Super Buu vs Kid Buu I can bet all my life savings that Toriyama would reply something along the lines of "Well, Kid Buu is the final opponent, isn't it obvious that he's the strongest? (laughs)"

Other urls found in this thread:

kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16983
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Probably because the games or whatever you're talking about follow the idea that since Kid Buu was the last boss in the anime then he should be the last boss in the game as well. And in the game you can't really mimics the idea that, while he isn't physically stronger than Super Buu, he IS more dangerous just due to his primitive nature.

Toriyama makes this pretty obvious. SSJ3 Goku wouldn't stand a chance against Super Buu, and only thinks he "probably could have" defeated Fat Buu in that form. But he is able fight Kid Buu toe to toe, provided it's in a realm that's separate from everything else and can't quite be destroyed (or something, not sure I ever understood that part). There's a reason why Kid Buu is the only Buu that beats his chest like an ape and never says a word. They want you to understand that he's a primitive creature that just wants to kill, not some methodical guy that cares about pride or desires a good fight or anything like that. Pretty sure the characters just flat out state this on multiple occasions.

>But he is able fight Kid Buu toe to toe
No, Kid Buu just stalled. Eventually Goku would have gotten tired and Kid Buu would continue to torture him until his very last breath, because that's what Kid Buu is like, that's what Kid Buu was doing with them, just toying around with them, giving them openings and all that. It was just a game for him. Not like Cell, like an actual full-out competition, for Kid Buu a game is literally toying around. Kid Buu IS insane after all, sort of like the Joker from Batman, evil insane genius minus the genius. Or maybe Kid Buu's actually a genius pretending to be insane, who knows? And while Kid Buu never spoke, I'm pretty sure it was made pretty clear that he understood what they were saying.

It was all a game to Kid Buu in the end. Animals don't have games, they don't destroy and kill for no reason, they don't "toy" around with. To imply that Kid Buu is anything near an animal or a primitive creature is pretty stupid actually.

For the video games, I'm pretty sure Toriyama supervised some of them. Meaning that he LET them make Kid Buu stronger than Super Buu.

Also, you didn't respond to my pure power theory, what do you think about that? I'm pretty sure that's the reason why they call Kid Buu "Pure Buu", because he's not "impure", he's pure, the real thing, the real, original, not fake Buu.

You're half right. It's not that Kid Buu is stronger than Super Buu, but that Kid Buu is a being of mindless destruction, whereas Super Buu has absorbed enough people to have a personality with likes and dislikes. Since Super Buu has wants and desires, he doesn't want to destroy absolutely everything anymore, as there are things he likes too much to destroy (namely, anything with sugar in it).

Super Buu is stronger, but because he has hangups about destroying certain things, he's less dangerous overall.

Kid Buu is weaker, but doesn't give a shit about anything except blowing stuff up, so overall he's more dangerous.

For Buu logic, I still hold that the more "dangerous" a Buu is (ie. the more pure a Buu is), the more powerful they actually are.

Also in the DB world "dangerous", "strong" and "powerful" are used like synonyms.

Super Buu, no matter how powerful he was, would not have destroyed Earth until he'd eaten every single sweet food on the planet. Kid Buu, as we saw, blew it the fuck up the first chance he got.

Does that mean that Super Buu couldn't blow up the Earth if he wanted to? Hell no.

Does that mean he's less powerful than Kid Buu? No.

Does that mean he's less dangerous? Yes.

Blowing up the Earth isn't even a feat in Dragon Ball though. Even fucking Raditz could blow up the Earth or any other planet I'm pretty sure.

Why did you make such a tl;dr post? The common (and incorrect) opinion in most of the western fanbase is that Kid Buu is stronger.

>The common opinion in most of the western fanbase is that Kid Buu is stronger.
No. Go on any online forum, 80% will claim that Super Buu is stronger.
>(and incorrect)
Citation needed. Give me official source that literally says Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu or Kid Buu is weaker than Super Buu.

Also respond to my purity theory, please? I feel like I'm on to something.

Kid Buu's the most pure in the sense that his true mentality isn't hindered by other individuals. Fat Buu is a child with earth destroying powers and Super Buu is Perfect Cell 2.0. Kid Buu doesn't have any sorf og attachment relatable to us.

Goku mentions while watching Super Buu that he most likely wouldn't be able to fight him. Gotenks SSJ3, who's stronger than Goku in SJJ3 barely kept up with him.

My point with that is that just because he didn't do it doesn't mean he can't. Sure, Super Buu didn't teleport around the universe busting planets in search of Goku and Vegeta so that he could destroy them, but that doesn't mean he couldn't have done that if he wanted to. My point is that just because Super Buu wasn't as destructive as Kid Buu was, doesn't mean he couldn't have been.

I created this thread to discuss my purity theory, not to actually discuss Kid Buu vs Super Buu.

In the end it's all conjecture because there is nothing official that gives us any indication. All we have is some vague voodoo doll ooga booga occult type of shit, particularly the manga. At least the anime makes it kind of clear that Kid Buu is superior.

Also this
kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16983

>comes up with theory about power levels
>complains when people discuss power levels while refuting your theory

My purity theory has nothing to do with power levels, did you forget that Buu is a magical being and thus the same rules that would apply to non-magical beings don't apply to him?

No one refuted my theory, there is nothing that refutes my theory. My theory doesn't refute anyone else's theory either; theories are just theories until they are proven as fact. Buu theories will always remain just that: theories. Unless one day Toriyama outright states the logic behind Buu.

>complains
Please enlighten me where did I complain?

Fat Buu is the strongest, he's just so stupid he can't use the power well.

Super Buu is the second strongest but has some morals left.

Kid Buu is weaker but has absolutely no morals and is willing to do anything to kill, which is why he's the most destructive.

kidbuu wasn't the strongest but he was the most evil and would kill without hesitation or destroy an entire planet without thinking the other versions of buu are more human-like with emotions and enjoying battle

>Fat Buu is the strongest, he's just so stupid he can't use the power well.
Worst bait I've ever seen, a fucking abomination of bait.

>has nothing to do with power levels

>I have a theory that Kid Buu is actually stronger than base Super Buu

Where are the two words 'power' and 'levels' found there exactly?

Fat Buu is Kid Buu with the most kai absorbed.

>implying that it's not about power levels if the phrase "power levels" isn't used

fat buu also got destroyed by skinny buu so...

Because Fat Buu has the most morals and also gave up fighting by that point in time. They also both have the OHKO candy beam and Evil Buu used it first, it was really just an old fashioned first-to-fire old west duel scenario. Fat Buu was too kind at that point and noticeably hesitated.

It's about the significance of purity in Buu and how that could imply that the most pure Buu (Kid Buu) is stronger than a very impure Buu (Super Buu).

Yeah, it indirectly links to power levels obviously, but my point is my purity theory is not a power level discussion, it is a purity discussion.

>I have a theory, Semi Perfect Cell is stronger than Perfect Cell.
If Kid Buu fought Super Buu, he'd get his shit stomped so hard it would not be even funny. I'll go further, Gotenks would DESTROY Kid Buu, not even going SSJ3. Read the manga OP, it's pretty clear that Super Buu is leagues above.

>Kid Buu is actually stronger than base Super Buu,

stopped reading there, because it's not a theory it's a fact


kid buu is fucking crazy you can't just fight him and outpower him


even if you are more powerful than him he will do whatever it takes to win, just look at how goku fought him


i bet that if somehow vegeta had reached ssj3 while he was fighting buu, he wouldn't have been able to do shit because vegeta just thinks to much while he fight

You need to re-read the manga clearly, because nowhere is it actually directly stated that Super Buu > Kid Buu

Also
kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=16983

Bait

Super Buu destroys Kid Buu. Goku stated that he would be killed by Super but he could have beaten Kid if he didn't hold back.

The only thing Kid might have over Super is Stamina. Dude was relentless and merciless and his fighting style was unconventional, thats about all he had going for him vs Super

We'll never really know desu.

If Vegito or Mystic Gohan had fought Kid Buu, we would have a much better idea. SS3 Goku was weaker than Kid Buu AND Super Buu, so we really don't have a metric.

>"Well, Kid Buu is the final opponent, isn't it obvious that he's the strongest? (laughs)"

God damnit I can visualise this so clearly it hurt my brain

>Linking a forum on Sup Forums.
>Implying I'm going to read all that wankery.
I have read the whole manga four times. I know it does not say "Hey guys Toriyama here, Super Buu is stronger than Kid Buu". But if you have a little bit of reading comprehension, you can infer that Super Buu is way stronger. No exposition is needed for such a simple concept. It's a manga for kids, it's not that hard to understand.

>Goku stated that he would be killed by Super but he could have beaten Kid if he didn't hold back
Goku also states during the Kid Buu fight that he wished he had used the potara earrings. What's your point exactly?

If it was such a simple concept, Super Buu vs Kid Buu wouldn't be the biggest DB debate ever, now would it? Idiot.

>If you asked Toriyama about Super Buu vs Kid Buu I can bet all my life savings that Toriyama would reply something along the lines of "Well, Kid Buu is the final opponent, isn't it obvious that he's the strongest? (laughs)"

If you didn't mention that was hypothetical, I'd believe that without a doubt, yeah.

>Biggest DB ever.
Dragon Ball's fanbase is full of idiots. At least you said you read the manga, but most of it consist of secondaries who only watched Z, watched it dubbed and with a changed script. So Kid Buu vs Super Buu being a debate in shitty anime forums is not a valid point.

>because that's what Kid Buu is like, that's what Kid Buu was doing with them, just toying around with them, giving them openings and all that
Total headcanon. Kid Buu didn't give any opening to Vegeta and Good Buu. Only Goku SSJ3 could fuck him up.
Anyway, it's literally spelled out by Goku "We have the same strength, but he doesn't get tired". Actually, Goku has the upper hand during their fight so he's at least as powerful as Kid Buu, while Super Buu would kill him (stated by Goku too)

Also
>For the video games, I'm pretty sure Toriyama supervised some of them. Meaning that he LET them make Kid Buu stronger than Super Buu.
Kek.
Toriyama supervised the anime yet it's an endless pit of plotholes and OOC shit. Do you think he'd care about the differences in Kid and Super Buu's gameplays that'd imply one of them being stronger than the other? This is the man who forgot SSJ2 and Android 18's hair color.

didn't they (kais) say that when he returned to his original form that he was stronger than ever?

Also, the Fat Buu that was eaten by Skinny Buu isn't Fat Buu, he's Good Buu, who lost a lot of his strength.

Problem is even the manga is extremely vague. It is true that the anime contributed a lot to the confusion, but the manga didn't exactly help either. And I'm very sure that this debate would still exist even without the anime.

By that logic we should disregard DB as a whole because it was written by Toriyama and we shouldn't even be having this discussion. Yet here you are.

>Kid Buu didn't give any opening to Vegeta and Good Buu
Kid Buu is insane and random, I could use the same logic and ask, if Kid Buu destroyed the Earth, why didn't he destroy the Kai World? It's pretty clear that he was toying around, he was even laughing like he was having fun.

>Anyway, it's literally spelled out by Goku "We have the same strength, but he doesn't get tired"
If Kid Buu was toying around and holding back his full power, Goku wouldn't be able to know this, now wouldn't he?

>Actually, Goku has the upper hand during their fight so he's at least as powerful as Kid Buu
He was struggling even against Kid Buu when he was toying around. Kid Buu easily had the upper hand.

>while Super Buu would kill him (stated by Goku too)
True, this is a fact.

*now would he?

>By that logic we should disregard DB as a whole because it was written by Toriyama and we shouldn't even be having this discussion. Yet here you are.
That means the videogames aren't worth shit. They're far from canon, and unlike the manga Toriyama wrote and drew, he had barely anything to do with them, if at all. They're not reliable for anything. Barta is stronger than Fat Buu in them.

>Kid Buu is insane and random, I could use the same logic and ask, if Kid Buu destroyed the Earth, why didn't he destroy the Kai World?
Old Kai says right when Kid Buu arrives that the Kai World wont be destroyed as easily as Earth, so he couldn't.

>If Kid Buu was toying around and holding back his full power, Goku wouldn't be able to know this, now wouldn't he?
Except when Toriyama wrote Goku saying "we have the same strength" and never contradicted it, he meant "they have the same strength". Ockam razor and shit.
Dragon Ball isn't a deep manga where the author is actively trying to deceive you.

>He was struggling even against Kid Buu when he was toying around. Kid Buu easily had the upper hand.
No, he gave him like 8 attacks, while Buu only landed 6.

Agree to disagree user. I can't be bothered with this Super Buu vs Kid Buu stuff, it's the same stuff getting thrown around over and over from both sides and there is no clear winner, both you and me are just wasting our time, we're not going to prove anything, we're beating a dead horse, we'll just keep on doing this until one of us gets tired.

Well, you win, because I got tired first.