Christian bible thread #3

let's keep it going.

we had some fruitful discussion and even some atheists became converted last thread.

Other urls found in this thread:

biblehub.com/acts/8-37.htm
rickbeckman.org/log/kjv-1611-vs-1769/
twitter.com/AnonBabble

and just to point something out before the atheists start flooding in again: God is the logical end-point of all philosophy. you can not have free will and morality without God. Full stop.

BUMP!

I agree with the basic morals of Christianity, but I don't believe, that there is a god.

>even some atheists became converted last thread
Miracle! Although honestly, I'd covert too if it meant I get a cute waifu. The religion could sell better if Jesus was a girl.

But that's really contradictory... how can you believe that morals exist if God does not exist? You can just make up your own morals... they don't have any value.

>tfw no christian gf

>The religion could sell better if Jesus was a girl.
that's what Catholics did.. they worship Mary as a virgin goddess, lol.

i came here to fap to christ chan, post more of her

I read that Poland made Jesus the King of Poland, I kinda like the idea.

Most of Poles are stil kektholics, it won't change anything. When our nobility became protestant during reformation we entered the golden age. Then we elected catholic king and got partitioned, really activated almonds.

Good for you I guess.

The biggest problem is that atheistic philosophy leads nowhere other than nihilism which nature has shown to be a worthless mindset. In addition to that human beings have shown to generally have a natural mindset that there is something above them even non-believers (look at all the people who assume that a life form on another planet will be smarter rather than dumber or about the same). In addition to that Christianity has brought out some of the best in mankind and has been a needed backbone for our civilization.

You're very correct in this assertion. We know that ideologies that explicitly reject religion, such as communism, always become decadent and don't care for human life. Ideologies that allow for God or is based on God, such as the Founding Fathers, create prosperous societies. The founders knew that a moral and religious people was the cornerstone of a successful society.

Funny how that works huh? Kinda like God's laws actually work...?

why would a book edited a million times by people over a span of 2000 years hold any more value?

Most atheists have had religious upbringings so its not surprising if some return later. All schools are still religious. Atheism usually only develops in late teens/twenties.

bump

It's not "edited", it's written by God. Every part of scripture is God-breathed... that's what the Bible says.

Yes, it was translated, but we know that God's word works in every language because the Holy Ghost spoke to many different nations and tribes in many different tongues.

It's not edited. There might be some wrong translations, but you can always read greek and read it in original.

oh this is a meme thread

how can you trust the fallible translation of mere humans, if god wanted to send a message for all humans he would create the one message instead of relying on the individual devotion to spread it, no?

I mean learn greek*

the problem is not the original, the problem is that the catholic church held a monopoly on the scriptures for centuries and most likely used it

also how come a swede is arguing about religion?

You're not looking at the spiritual part of this. The Bible says that "holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost"... It's my belief that the Bible can be translated into every language, and that every language has their own correct Bible translation that they can read and understand. Yes, of course there are New Age Bible versions as well... we all know this, but God's word is still out there, and I believe that there are many version of the Bible that are directly God-breathed, such as the KJV, Textus Receptus, the Swedish Folk Bible, etc.

Fap is degeneracy. With that said appreciation of the beauty of the female figure is not so here is one.

Here's some Bible prophesy that turned to happen.

>how can you believe that morals exist if God does not exist? You can just make up your own morals... they don't have any value.

Morality has value that we as human beings give them. Pre-Christian societies also had moral values.

Fapping is a sin.

I agree that is why I don't fap. It ruins sex and can kill your desire to have kids that is why I don't mind the drawing I found as it does promote having children.

>it's my belief
is there anything to it? where does this conviction come from?
and how would you know what translation contains the truth?
and how can it contain "the" truth when there will be different people from different societies and times who interpret it differently?

>Pre-Christian societies also had moral values.
Yeah, and they were either subjective morals ("me kill you, me stronger"), or they were derived from some divine belief. Christianity actually has absolute, codified moral principles.

Without a God, morality is always subjective, and life has no inherent value, which means that any morality is better than the next... you can't say that any morality is objectively better than another.

B THREAd >> !!!!

Morality's subjective even with a god. Christianity isn't exactly one big homogenous group that agrees on everything.

>is there anything to it? where does this conviction come from?
From the Bible... where else?

>and how would you know what translation contains the truth?
The Holy Spirit and faith. In the end, the question of Bible translations are not that important, simply because virtually all translations are the same when it comes to important core doctrine and salvation/the gospel. Of course there are some insane "translations" made by cults, such as the Mormon Bible, 7th Day Adventist Bible, JW Bible, etc.

>and how can it contain "the" truth when there will be different people from different societies and times who interpret it differently?
God's word is out there for anyone to read. As long as you accept that it's God's word, we will have to reconcile our theological differences with ourselves and God. Believe it or not, but most of the major Christian doctrines are not really disputed in light of the Bible.

>Morality's subjective even with a god.
No it's not, that's the point. If you have an omniscient, omnipotent God, the morality created by him is the only true morality.

>Christianity isn't exactly one big homogenous group that agrees on everything.
Even if we pretend that there are moral differences within Christianity on major moral issues, there still an objective morality out there. Without God, there is none!

tfw no bear pet and Christian gf

And which objective morality is the right one, then?

God's morality, found in the Bible... that's what I've been telling you this whole thread.

Except there's multiple Bibles and multiple interpretations of those Bibles. So which one is the correct one?

>simply because virtually all translations are the same when it comes to important core doctrine and salvation/the gospel.

wrong
NIV etc removes acts 8:37 for example

which says this

Acts 8:37
And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

biblehub.com/acts/8-37.htm

I would marry and have children with a 3D Christ-chan
and captcha still calls me a jew
>completo goldstein

you've made one new argument with that sentence
you're really good at this desu

>from the bible
so you are basing your belief on the bible
and the validity of the text itself on your belief

>core doctrine
define it and i will find a bible you think is valid that doesn't contain it
and how can anyone but you see these core doctrines? someone will inevitably interpret the words differently, what happens then? how can you say the truth you see is any more valid than the one this person sees?

>most of the major Christian doctrines
there actually was quite a big fight over someone reinterpreting the "word of god" and laying it out to be more free
and people fought 30 years of war over it
so which one holds ALL the core doctrines?

There's not that much different between the different versions. Orthodox and Catholic bibles have a bit more stuff than Protetsant bibles, but they're mostly the same. Different translations of course are slightly different as well, but the big picture should not be lost in translation.

They did it for Xatan only tho. To them, she can be utilized in inversion as the whore of babylon. It is sick and antichrist

I read the KJV and the Swedish Folk Bible, but whichever translation works best for you. Once you have the Holy Spirit in you, you will feel it yourself. Overall the Bible is pretty clear regardless of your translation, but my belief is that the KJV is the perfect translation in English.

I know that the NIV is Satanic... there are many bad English translations unfortunately.

And what makes the NIV Satanic as opposed to the KJV?

>There's not that much different between the different versions.
see NIV, ESV,NLT,nkjv etc

all modern versions are corrupt

if you dont use king james youre likely using a corrupt version

>so you are basing your belief on the bible and the validity of the text itself on your belief
Yes, that is correct...

>define it and i will find a bible you think is valid that doesn't contain it
Define the core doctrines of the entire Bible? I can give you the basis of the gospel, which is the most important part: trust in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, that he died for your sins, was buried, and rose again from the dead. That's your ticket to heaven. As far as the Bible, I will only defend the King James Version of the Bible.

>there actually was quite a big fight over someone reinterpreting the "word of god" and laying it out to be more free and people fought 30 years of war over it
What was that fight?

>so which one holds ALL the core doctrines?
All of the 66 books of the Bible as found in the King James Version... you're free to check out some other translation if you'd like, but I will only defend the KJV for English.

see

It's a commercially created Bible used to make profits and hold copyrights, and they've done some serious changes compared to the original English translation in the KJV. I believe that the KJV is God's perfect, inspired word in English... there are many reasons for this, such as the fact that it's the only English Bible out of copyright, the most sold & read book in human history. God obviously knew that English would be the most important language.

If you want to have a Bible study I'm all for that, but first are you willing to agree that the Bible is God's word?

>The KJV-only brigade have arrived

Tell me: which KJV is the "perfect one"?

Please read this short article and come back to me about it: rickbeckman.org/log/kjv-1611-vs-1769/

>All of the 66 books of the Bible as found in the King James Version
Do you think Bibles should include an Apocrypha section?

>the original English translation in the KJV
The KJV is a revision of an earlier translation

>What was that fight?

There was that little thing called the Thirty Years' War. I'm surprised a Swede of all people wouldn't be familiar.

>there are many reasons for this, such as the fact that it's the only English Bible out of copyright, the most sold & read book in human history. God obviously knew that English would be the most important language.
So you're basing the validity of the transcript on its popularity and accessibility rather than doctrinal accuracy.

>but first are you willing to agree that the Bible is God's word?
The Bible is Man putting words in God's mouth. The only claim that the Bible is the word of God is from the Bible itself, a book written by Man.

Anyone have those "Bible 1/2/3 Images from last thread? Particularly the one about "Nice jesus"

1 John 2
18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

>ell me: which KJV is the "perfect one"?
The 1769 version, that's the version the translators told the printers to print. Because of how primitive the printing press was back then (adding every individual letter for every page backwards), the perfect print didn't come out until 1769. So we use the 1769 version today.

>that is correct
do you not see how this can't be right though?

>what was that fight
your king "won" it for us
unless you're somalian

>KJV Bible
i'm too lazy to read that desu

have you ever asked yourself why you have a belief? (and tried to find an answer outside of religion)
why is it that you hold such strong belief?

>Do you think Bibles should include an Apocrypha section?
Not as scripture, no.

>The KJV is a revision of an earlier translation
It's not a revision, it's a new translation that's about 70% identical to the Tyndale & Geneva Bibles, because believe it or not most of the Bible is pretty clear, lol.

>So you're basing the validity of the transcript on its popularity and accessibility rather than doctrinal accuracy.
I believe that the KJV is the perfect word of God in English, so obviously it is "doctrinally accurate".

>The Bible is Man putting words in God's mouth. The only claim that the Bible is the word of God is from the Bible itself, a book written by Man.
That is correct. The Bible is God's word according to the Bible. That's circular reasoning because all religion is circular, just like your belief in morality is circular or subjective. I don't get your point.

Proverbs 19
15 Slothfulness casteth into a deep sleep; and an idle soul shall suffer hunger.

The way i see it, God does exist. Until a theory as for the genesis of the universe's cause, with evidence presents itself, and can be proven, I will continue to believe it was instigated by an entity rather than a natural phenomenon. And if an overwhelming amount of writing and a large part of human history is based off of this God in a Christian manner, I will assume that God is what Christians think he is.

Perhaps countless pagan gods are simply people attributing entire personalities to simple aspects of God (e.g. prayer to this entity means victory in war? must be a war god, totally unrelated to the god of agriculture). That's what's justified the existence of other religions to me so far.

It's doctrinally accurate in your subjective opinion. There are a lot of people who do not share this opinion, even among Christianity.

So who's correct here? Whose objective morality is the right one?

for a sentence with the same eloquence and meaning yourself and stop having your imaginary friend speak for you

of course a 200 year old ever changing book has a broad answer to a common phenomenon

>tfw started going to bible class
the guy knows his stuff and goes into detail about stuff like ancient jewish roofing techniques when we get to the part where the guys open the roof to lower the paralyzed man
>tfw dont go to mass weekly and still fap to /trash/ degeneracy
fug

1 Timothy 6
20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee. Amen.

Proverbs 6
6 Go to the ant, thou sluggard; consider her ways, and be wise: 7 Which having no guide, overseer, or ruler, 8 Provideth her meat in the summer, and gathereth her food in the harvest. 9 How long wilt thou sleep, O sluggard? when wilt thou arise out of thy sleep?

LOL came here to post this

You will convert to Baal Worship because you can't resist Cliff Simon.

>do you not see how this can't be right though?
If I read the Bible I have in my hand, which contains the truth, I obviously can find the truth from it. I fully understand that I'm not personally going to interpret every part of the Bible correctly, but that's something that we as believers will have to reconcile with ourselves and God. The important part is that the Bible IS God's word and that His truth is found there.

>have you ever asked yourself why you have a belief?
Look, the Bible is pretty clear that it's FAITH (not empirical evidence) in Jesus Christ that matters. I fully understand the perspective of refusing to believe in something without evidence or without empirical proof, but the Bible teaches that faith in Christ is what matters for going to heaven -- if I had empirical evidence, hard proof that Jesus and the Bible was real, that would not require much FAITH would it?!

We believe that the Bible is God's word because we choose to have faith in that idea, not because we have hardcore proof that can demonstrate that it's the truth. I personally believe that no book as rich and powerful as the Bible can be written by humans, and the truths and prophesies contained in the Bible can't be written by humans... only divine inspiration could create and preserve the Bible.

Circular reasoning is used in everyday life and beliefs all the time, the fact that religious people use it in their faith isn't weirder than atheists thinking reproduction and "feelings" matter in a godless world.

what a magnanimous faggot

Proverbs 26
13 The slothful man saith, There is a lion in the way; a lion is in the streets. 14 As the door turneth upon his hinges, so doth the slothful upon his bed. 15 The slothful hideth his hand in his bosom; it grieveth him to bring it again to his mouth. 16 The sluggard is wiser in his own conceit than seven men that can render a reason. 17 He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears. 18 As a mad man who casteth firebrands, arrows, and death, 19 So is the man that deceiveth his neighbour, and saith, Am not I in sport?

We don't have free will, and morality is entirely subjective, shaped like all our thoughts, by evolution and life experience

How did entire words get added and taken away by single-block printing errors? That's nonsense. Also, God allowed a version of His "perfect translation" with mistakes in it to be used for 158 years before getting around to fixing it?

Holy fuck no, they heavily used Tyndale, the Great Bible, and Bishop's Bible. Similarly to how the ASV used the RV and KJV, but was a new translation. That's what a revision is.

"Apocrypha section" doesn't mean it's scripture. Should it be in physical bibles as its own section?

>leaving in a late addition is better
>using a translation made 1,550 years later to judge accuracy rather than the earliest Greek manuscripts

I believe that the morality as taught in the KJV is the right one, but what ultimately matters is that people are saved through believing in Jesus Christ. If someone accepts their own Bible translation as the perfect word of God, I fully respect that. Our differences and interpretations of God's word is something we will have to reconcile before God in heaven.

I like some of the ideas that Christianity has fostered and spread, there is however things that I cannot agree with. I cannot believe in God or at least not the idea that God is what is described in the bible. I think it is actually some what reasonable to think there may be a higher power to the universe just not likely the Christian iteration of God.
As far as religions go it is by far one of the best that has ever been, in terms of what it helped create culturally.

ok i have to go to bed now. it's getting late
mind telling me if this is actually a ruse or not?

>the Bible I have in my hands, which contains the truth
and what if it doesn't? then you believe in a false truth?

>blah blah Faith
so you've given up on your facade
that didn't take long lol

>we choose to have faith
and why do you choose to have it? what made you choose?

>Circular reasoning
many people do bad things every day
doesn't mean they stop being bad

Proverbs 24
30 I went by the field of the slothful, and by the vineyard of the man void of understanding;

31 And, lo, it was all grown over with thorns, and nettles had covered the face thereof, and the stone wall thereof was broken down.

32 Then I saw, and considered it well: I looked upon it, and received instruction.

33 Yet a little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to sleep:

34 So shall thy poverty come as one that travelleth; and thy want as an armed man.

polytheist greeks invented the Republic
regressive christians today still talk in terms of 'his kingdom'

Monarchy < Republic

I liked him better in his immaterial form

>muh dik

Yes, we do have free will. If we don't accept free will as a reality, then there is no point in having a legal system or the rule of law, or rights, or punishment, or reward, or any thing, because no one has any choice in any thing -- so why do we have laws? Because people are rational beings capable of making decisions.

keep your dead jew on a stick off my Sup Forums, nigger.

We believe in the old Gods around here.

When the pretender leaves his position, do you think we'll get a proper Pope again?

I'll leave you guys with this handy guide to translations

>I think it is actually some what reasonable to think there may be a higher power to the universe just not likely the Christian iteration of God.

How come? The Christian God of the Bible makes more sense to me than any other theory.

>Fapping is a sin.
What exactly backs this claim?

Old Testament. Gold killed Onan, or whatever he is called in English, for masturbating instead of breeding wife of his dead brother.

King James was a notorious sodomite. If there ever was a fact for which the term "nigger in wood pile" applied, this fact would be the most applicable

God*

As a non-Christian who watches every Vortex, I'd say... No. You'll get an even worse one.

>and what if it doesn't? then you believe in a false truth?
Yeah, correct. If the Bible is not real, then I believe in something that is "wrong". If God doesn't exist, then nothing matters anyway, so it wouldn't matter if I'm wrong. But the Bible is real and we should all go to heaven because that's God's will.

>so you've given up on your facade
I told you from the very beginning that salvation is through faith alone and that no religion can be proven 100% correct through empirical evidence. That's why it's called "faith", because we're taking a leap of faith.

>and why do you choose to have it? what made you choose?
Reading the Bible and finding all the wisdoms and truths therein. "Faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God". According to the Bible, we get our faith through hearing God's word.

Funny how the answer is always in the Bible itself, ain't it?

>many people do bad things every day doesn't mean they stop being bad
Uhm, yeah...

You didn't provide an argument for us having free will, your argument was we have free will because we have systems that mean we have free will.


Who is to say that it is not our controlled will to have police and laws, you can explain why having laws is a good idea through evolution as good things for the tribe is encouraged and bad things are discouraged.

Before we even begin discussing this though, could you actually define what exactly free will is?

>and what if it doesn't? then you believe in a false truth?
>The Bible, the irrefutable word of God
>false

Into the lake of fire you go heathen.

Romans 1
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

He wasn't nicknamed Queen James for nothing. Dude was hella gay.

Nice patron of your "perfect translation", KJV-fags

WE WUZ VIKANGZ AND SHIEET

The Christian religion is to earth-centric there are likely trillions of worlds out there I cannot imagine God just cares about this one for some reason. But who really knows God could be offering salvation across all of those worlds, we don't know. I just think it is a bit odd to try and give a human feature like loving, caring, and so on to something that creates the universe, what could any of those things mean to a being like God.

Lol, that's a damn lie. But I've seen it spewed before by Bible haters. King James was married and had like 10 kids.

Is that David Asscherick preacher guy good?

Veneration isn't worship. Recognizing Mary as the bearer of Jesus Christ and realizing her part is important isn't the same as worship. Beseeching those in heaven to watch over people on earth isn't an attempt to make them into gods but to seek protection and guidance from the ascended which are with God.

Mary worship is an adaptation of pagan godesses such as Gaia to appeal to locals.