What the hell, this isn't a time skip. This is plain old teleportation...

What the hell, this isn't a time skip. This is plain old teleportation, there's even a lag between disappearing and reappearing.

Bravo not-toriyama.

Also
>No Kaiokenx10

What does this mean? Is it getting written out again because it was fucking retarded?

But hey at least Niggastream made the King kind of more interesting with his mannerisms.

>What does this mean? Is it getting written out again because it was fucking retarded?
It means it was never written in to begin with and Super Kaioken was once again a Toei-only creation.
Toyble is a huge Toriyama fanboy and Toriyama personally looks over every chapter of the manga before it goes on to be published, so if he had written in Kaioken Blue you can bet your ass the manga woukd've kept it.

Since SS Red is now a normal transformation, I look forward to seeing Vegeta use it in the near future.

Why? It says right there that it's weaker than Blue. Vegeta might not be able to do it at all, just like SS3.

>Toriyama personally looks over every chapter of the manga before it goes on to be published

Then why did toriyama forget that SSG and SSB supposedly don't drain ki?

>>What does this mean? Is it getting written out again because it was fucking retarded?

Manga and Anime are entirely independent, both of them are going about it their own way, creating their own answers.

Toriyama only gives each of them a rough guide of how it should go, and both of them figure out the details themselves. Neither are really on the same page though.

Neither one retcons the other, they're different experiences.

SSG still doesn't drain ki. SSB doesn't drain ki, but it has a huge penalty for doing multiple transformations in rapid succession

>Then why did toriyama forget that SSG and SSB supposedly don't drain ki?
SSB having a stamina drain was briefly mentioned even in the anime too. It's the whole reason Goku fights in base at the start. So, yes, it certainly came from Toriyama although the specific "1/10th of power after one transformation" might have been Toyotaro.

Although to be fair, SSJB was never established to have no energy drain, people just assumed that it was basically the same as SSJ, but it was just a fan assumption.

What the fuck is happening in this manga?

Why would Goku go to SSG form?
How did Goku go to SSG form without the ritual

>How did Goku go to SSG form without the ritual
The same way he did to stop Beerus' ball at the end of Battle of Gods movie?

Also, if you want to nitpick and say that the scene wasn't in the manga, then going just by the manga Goku never lost the SSJ God form in the first place. There was no time limit even mentioned.

>The same way he did to stop Beerus' ball at the end of Battle of Gods movie?

A flash of blue happened, and somehow he had more power for just a moment. It was assumed later that this was the beginning of him realizing SSB power, just slightly.

>Why would Goku go to SSG form?
Because it was still an increase in power over regular SS, but not as big a stamina drain as going SSB.
It's like going from SS to SS2 instead of going to SS3.

>A flash of blue happened
The flash of blue also happened the first time he transformed into a SSJ God too. It's just part of the transformation.

>It doesn't drain ki it just drains ki.

But in the movie, Goku said the reason he didn't like SSJG was because it requires the power of others.

SSJB was suppose to not drain that much stamina.

And they ruined the reason why Goku stepped out of the ring.

>It's an ability that only works on people weaker than him

What a useless fucking superpower.

That's his ability on the shitty fucking manga and ruined it.

The reason he went SSB Kaio-Ken in the first place was so that he could move really really fast, faster than the time stop itself.

In the Manga, now timestop works based on power level, which is retarded.

Kaioken isn't less retarded though, just for different reasons.

It was the same exact reason you retard. In both versions, Goku asks Hit if he's holding back, Hit says yes, so Goku quits because it's not a fair fight and he wants to see Monaka in action

>In the Manga, now timestop works based on power level, which is retarded.
But him suddenly improving himself to ridiculous levels just because "I never tried it before" isn't retarded?

Time stop in the anime was fucking retarded nonsense, he just kept magically improving the technique whenever he got overpowered

I think he might be talking about how in the anime Goku wouldn't be able to hold Kaioken for much longer and so would lose anyway.

Still, in the previous pages in the manga Goku says that he's using all his power in the Kamehameha, so he likely was left without energy there too.

No it isn't.
He basically creates a time bubble. Within the area, he can move for 0.1 seconds of his relative time. However, he has to actively force others out of his time bubble into regular time, which means if they're too strong to move, they won't be forced out (which is why Goku is surrounded in the weird effects)

This also perfectly explains why no one can see him move.

The entire reason he's getting hit early on is because Goku is guessing where he'll move to, to dodge, and strikes there. It's the same way you dodge bullets (you don't dodge the shot, you dodge where you think they'll fire, cause if you haven't started dodging before they pull the trigger, you're dead)

It's interesting. SSBlue seems to have the same draw back as super saiyan, which makes sense. The actual process of transforming puts a drain, so using multiple times without resting weakens you.
But Vegeta was definitely strong enough to beat Hit if he hadn't gone SSB against Cabba.

I don't think Vegeta will be going SSR because it's not really his style. Goku always plays the long game, where Vegeta always goes for the quick shut down.

I think I like it better that Red is Gokus color and Blue is Vegetas, with only the occasional switch to Blue for goku when doing a finishing move.

>manga and anime canon deviate significantly

Well I guess that makes the manga months behind worth reading, but it's going to lead to a lot of shitposting

>He basically creates a time bubble.

All of this theory is wrong

Its not hard to understand him as just stopping time, Whis says that Hit is doing something similar to himself. Whis can change time across the universe. You're overthinking it by creating bubble theory and saying who it doesn't effect.

>No it isn't.
>He basically creates a time bubble. Within the area, he can move for 0.1 seconds of his relative time.

But the manga clearly shows goku is able to move freely during the "0.1" seconds when he was skipping time, throwing a punch before he reappeared and catching hit as he did.

In other words, hit didn't stop time at all, he just went invisible for a moment while he repositioned.

Goku does the same thing in the anime though at that point. The pages say what he's doing. He's foreseeing where Hit is going to move and going there before Hit gets to it. The issue that both anime and manga suffer from is that if Hit can see during time stop that shouldn't really work, since he'd see Goku already positioned to counter him.

Although, at least, the manga doesn't show Hit striking Goku during the time stop itself, so there's still the possibility that he actually can't see or interact with the world during it, unlike in the anime.

SSB isn't a stamina drain
Whis was saying that the max power you can put out is lessened dramatically by turning it on, then off, then on again.
That's not stamina in the traditional sense, it's more just energy.
It sounds like the energy you summon up when you go SSB is used up regardless of if you expel it, so you need time to rebuild your reserves.

>Goku does the same thing in the anime though at that point. The pages say what he's doing. He's foreseeing where Hit is going to move and going there before Hit gets to it.

And you don't see why this is stupid and makes no sense? Hit getting hit by goku because he predicts where he'll be is fucking stupid, because goku is FROZEN in time. If goku throws the punch AFTER hit reappears and catches him off guard, that works. But these panels, and the anime, clearly show goku throwing attacks while hit is gone, during time that should be frozen.
In other words, it's a real shit portrayal of time stop powers, making them look like non-instantaneous, laggy teleportation instead.

stamina != ki

You need stamina for ki. If you're tired, you can't produce ki. If your stamina is burned, so is your ki.

So your complaint is with Dragon Ball Super's time stop portrayal in general, not specifically the manga's version

Sure, but how bad it was was less obvious in the anime.

so toyotaro fucked up?

In his portrayal of time-stopping? Yeah, definitely.

Hit using time stop poorly is not Toyota's fault.

So basically, Hit has a monstrous power level and a broken little gimmick, but he's a shit fighter.

>but he's a shit fighter.

Not at all, Goku even calls out at the end of their fight that Hit isn't using any of his techniques, since he's not allowed to use them in this tournament.

He's very skilled, and the strongest guy in universe six. However he's just recently learning to go even further beyond after fighting Goku, and realizing there are things out there that are fun to fight.

All of Hit's techniques are death techniques, so he can't use them in a fight where he's not allowed to kill.

He has at best good attacks, but he's an amateur if he can't avoid being read like an open book by a guy who can't count. His techniques surely served him well when assassinating, but assassinating is not versus combat.-

>but he's an amateur if he can't avoid being read like an open book by a guy who can't count.

Goku is a retard at most things, but is a battle genius. Shitpost harder if you want, but we've always known this to be the case. Goku is very smart when it comes to fighting even if he isn't any other times. Both Picollo and Vegeta comment that reading someone's movements like this should be impossible.

Of course goku is good at fighting. But if hit is telegraphing his moves that bad, then he's pretty bad. This is the shit Goku and co. got over training with Kami.

Has Goku always been this stupid that he'd point out an opponent's weakness rather than exploit them?

Hm.. I think he's done that shit a few times before.

What's stupid is he didn't fight in blue form from the start, but that's less the character being stupid and more the power levels making no sense. If Blue is a significant powerup from red, yellow and base, then one or two hits from Hit at base should have wrecked his shit.

Why did he do this
Why didn't he just fucking punch him

FUCKING PUNCH HIM HIT DO YOU EVEN UNDERSTAND THE POINT OF STOPPING TIME

The funniest thing about this writing is that since Hit's timestop doesn't work much when he's blue, If goku had gone blue from the start he'd have had much less trouble.

Fucking Toriyama...that only means massive potential for shitposting.

So this means everything is canon in their respective medium anyways.

Which means Toei will use SSB combined with Kaio-Ken again in the future as long as it doesn't go into conflict with Toriyama's rough guide!

>So this means everything is canon in their respective medium anyways.
It means toriyama doesn't really give a proper shit and only does the bare minimum to collect his juicy paycheck so Toei can ride on his name's popularity and the popularity of the movies, regardless of how bad the anime is.

Hit is such a weak character design (at least outfit design) with some poor gimmicky and unoriginal powers. But even I have to admit his personality is pretty based.

In both the anime and manga, they handled Hit's power retardedly. If he can stop time, then it doesn't matter if Goku punches where he thinks Hit is going to be, Hit will see his punch during that stopped time and just avoid it. And in the anime, Hits power just stops working on Blue hair Goku for no reason. The only thing that made sense was when they said Goku's too powerful for Hits power to work on him anymore. Everything else made no sense.

>Hit will see his punch during that stopped time and just avoid it.

You're thinking of it backwards, as soon as hit's time limit runs out Goku is supposed to automatically attack where he imagines Hit will be in that moment.

Its not that he's attacking and then Hit freezes time.

>The only thing that made sense was when they said Goku's too powerful for Hits power to work on him anymore

Which doesn't explain why his power worked at all with Beerus and Whis and Zeno present. Or alternatively, why it worked on the onlooker crowd if he was only focusing it on Goku. Is it a general time stop? Is it a localized paralysis of his opponent? And if so, why did everyone else see it as a time stop? And if not, why did it last 0.1 seconds in the presence of Beerus and Whis and Champa and Zeno?

Hit is so slow he can't actually hit Goku within that 0.1 second frame? He just gets close and then his power runs out? Thats stupid.

That's not how it's portrayed though, and even if you were right it begs the question of why he's using timestop so poorly, allowing goku to retaliate instead of hitting Goku in the stopped time.

Within the original measurements of time-stop, time stop ran out right as he was about to hit them.

However in the anime he leveled up his time-stop enough to be able to hit them dozens of times while time was stopped. Which is why Goku had to come up with a new trump card to even have a small chance of winning.

>Within the original measurements of time-stop, time stop ran out right as he was about to hit them.

Why didn't he stop time later, then? He was basically using time stop to get close instead of hitting, and that's very stupid and why he had any trouble.

The anime > the manga.

Anyone who cares about the manga is fucking retarded to begin with, as it's way behind the anime now.

The anime is the canon source for Super.

toyble starts the future trunks arc next month so it's not lagging terribly behind

The anime looks like shit so I've been only reading the manga, tried watching the Hit fight but it just looked too bad and I stopped after a few minutes. But I've started watching the anime again now for this Trunks saga since the animation is starting to look semi decent.

Anime is worse due to the QUALITY, needless story padding, and the cast acting even more out of character.

>The reason he went SSB Kaio-Ken in the first place was so that he could move really really fast, faster than the time stop itself.
That's fucking retard tho

Why all the lip service for Vegeta this chapter?

>should have beaten Cabba at regular SSJ
>could have beaten Hit at SSB

Does he really need more excuses for jobbing?

>no kaio-ken

But it wasn't really time stop. It was accelerated time movement in the anime so high enough power levels could still enable Goku to outrace it.

>no asspulls

good

Yes and no.
Goku would have had no way of knowing what was happening
his time was still stopped, just for a much shorter period.

>Goku would have had no way of knowing what was happening
He already knew it was a timestop. He would have had a much easier time punching hit with his much higher speed and power and greatly reduced timestop duration, not to mention he'd have taken much less damage from Hit's own attacks.