ITT: Characters that get an unfair amount of hate

He has a lot of good qualities that outshine the questionable ones.

>He has a lot of good qualities that outshine the questionable ones.
Incorrect.

Questionable is a bit of an understatement.

>good qualities
Like being a demon whose very existence is to plague mankind?

you could question every single word in that sentence individually

He mostly used his qualities for selfish gains, which is not considered "good" by the plebs.

Confident, charismatic, brave, ambitious, skilled, learned, intelligent, able to see the larger picture.
Yet people think he's a complete monster and nothing else about him matters because he raped one woman once.

He isn't confident, why do you think he sperged out when guts left?

This guy sold out humanity to demons,is a demon and sacrificed all his comrades for power.He did everything wrong.

He is a child who threw a fit and knocked all of his blocks over because his favourite toy left.

>He isn't confident
Bullshit. It takes alot of confidence to fight in war. To face Zodd, to fuck a princess behind the kings back.
He was obviously sad, but he just didn't know how much he cared about guts. Plus, he thought that the king wanted Griffith to become his son in law, so by fucking the princess - he was securing his future. But the truth was the king wanted to fuck his own daughter. Griffith misread the situation.
>Yet people think he's a complete monster and nothing else about him matters because he raped one woman once.
One rape isn't that bad. He raped one woman to save millions of people. And people seem to forget he sold his own ass to save his army. They would have died if he didn't fuck old men for money to fund them. They owed him anyways. Plus, Griffith basically is a god now and can consol with the dead. His army is probably living like kings in Valhalla for their noble sacrifice.

>literately sacrifices all of his friends to hell
>'BUT MUH DREAM"
His 'good' qualities are traits that allow him to further his dream and nothing else.

his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.

also he caused the largest outbreak of troll rape ever

>raped one woman once
and killed all of his followers
and condemned them to eternal suffering
and is killing anyone that apposes him with the power he got from killing all his followers
and became a prophet for something called 'the idea of EVIL'

But no, by all means, 'he a good boi'

>One rape isn't that bad. He raped one woman to save millions of people.

lol

also it's been a while since i read berserk, did they specify he had to fuck casca or are you talking about that fetus thing or am i missing something?

...

He did the rape just to spite Guts, but it was what indirectly led to his rebirth through the Demon Child.

>this is what Griffithfags actually believe happened

>He raped one woman to save millions of people

and you genuinely think he was reborn to do good things to humanity? The absolute incarnation of evil, the one who was said would bring darkness to the whole world? Are you by any chance a fucking retard? I though it was commong knowledge that Griffith is definitely not the good guy he's convincing everyone to be

Griffith sympathizers are what Light sympathizers grow up to be

But in the end they're all the same: trash.

Might makes right, that's all there is to morality.

I hope you get raped user.

>Plus, he thought that the king wanted Griffith to become his son in law, so by fucking the princess - he was securing his future.
What? No, that isn't how shit works. Even if the king wasn't batshit you don't just sneak into the royal palace and fuck the princess and expect to get away with no repercussions. How much the king likes you is irrelevant that shit is something you don't do, especially as a commoner.

...

>his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.
source please.

>also he caused the largest outbreak of troll rape ever
thats barely and indirectly his fault. He didn't want those poor women to get raped. He's been doing everything in his power to stop this kind of stuff, you just can't save everyone. Plus, those girls are clearly enjoying themselves.


>and killed all of his followers
they owed him their lives
>and condemned them to eternal suffering
pretty sure they became his flesh
>and is killing anyone that apposes him with the power he got from killing all his followers
just like before. He's always been a mercenary band killing people that appose him. Thats just the way the world was back then, untill griffith changed it for the better.
>and became a prophet for something called 'the idea of EVIL'
pretty sure that chapter was retconned.

This shit is no different than nuking two cities killing millions just to end a war.

>He did the rape just to spite Guts, but it was what indirectly led to his rebirth through the Demon Child.
There is no proof he raped casca to spite guts. The fact he impregnated casca is proof that he was always going to let her live and leave. The only reason guts and casca are still alive is because he chose to let them live. Without casca leaving, he wouldn't have been able to be reborn. Without guts protecting casca, he wouldn't have been able to be reborn. He never wanted them dead because he loves them both.

Trips confirm

Even when the might is unearned?
If it does matter how it's earned, then he deserves to die, if it doesn't, then why does he deserve anything? Why is his cause more noble than others, anyone against him is just doing the same, do they deserve to be on top too?

He was just seducing the princess, getting caught was not part of his plan

>>his army is dead in burning in the vortex of hell, that's what happens to people with the brand.
>source please.

Did you read the manga? It's stated at the end of the first arc when the count is given a chance to sacrifice his daughter.

>and you genuinely think he was reborn to do good things to humanity? The absolute incarnation of evil, the one who was said would bring darkness to the whole world? Are you by any chance a fucking retard? I though it was commong knowledge that Griffith is definitely not the good guy he's convincing everyone to be
where the fuck are ya'll getting this shit? Why are you calling him "the absolute incarnation of evil"?
The whole "idea of evil" shit was completely retconnected.

He didn't impregnate Casca, it's been stated that it was Guts' child, just his seed corrupted it.
Plus, sure must be some love for him to attempt to kill them both and sacrifice their soul and body to demons, eh? Sure is some loving acts.

>pretty sure that chapter was retconned.

This is how retarded Griffith sympathizers are, everyone.

Miura doesn't want it included in volumes because it gives too much of the story away, pretty much the opposite of it being retconned.

>2 digit IQ struggling with subjectivity

I never noticed before but there is a definite overlap in the two groups and the way they try to defend their idol.

shit. It's been a few fucking years nigger. Maybe show a pic please? Im busy and cant look it up. I was always under the impression his army became his body because of how his rebirth was shown.

Like i said nigger, he wouldn't have been able to come back without them. He never intended for them to die.

I'm just arguing my side, you're arguing yours, but no alright, I guess your insult dismantles my whole argument, congratulations, uu r the smartes gui

>He never intended for them to die.
I don't think you understand what the word sacrifice means

He didn't know that that would cause him to come back though. Also, he intended for every person there to die, that WAS the whole point of the ritual.

Griffith a shit
His supporters a shit
I hope Falconia burns
But not before that obnoxious medium gets personally rekt

>Miura doesn't want it included in volumes because it gives too much of the story away, pretty much the opposite of it being retconned.

nah, he probably just changed his mind about the whole deal. This story would be alot more shtty if there was a clear cut hero and villain. Guts is far closer to being the villain that griffith, considering he's been mindlessly murdering men, women, and children his whole life. Not until he overhead griffith after MURDERING A FUCKING CHILD did he actually think about his future.

>mindlessly murdering men, women, and children his whole life
huh?

You'r probably right. I say this because when i was a teenager and watched death note, i always felt light was better and should have won. The ending was bullshit. I guess retards like you fail to see the bigger picture.

it has nothing to do with the IOE. The God Hand itself is the incarnation of evil, isn't Griffith a part of them? Let me guess, 'that doesn't count' because reasons? Besides Femto was described as the bringer of darkness upon the world

>nah, he probably just changed his mind about the whole deal.
This is your head canon and you're fine to stick with it but don't expect anyone else to buy it when he's on record stating that the chapter is canon but gave away too much about the world.

You must be fuking retarded

If Light was better he wouldn't have lost with an anonymous killing device
if Light was smarter than L he wouldn't have let it be known that he was in Japan by falling for L's trick at the very start of the show.

>you will never browse an Sup Forums devoid of newfags who keep making the same threads every day and newfags who continuously respond, spoonfeeding the OPs with attention and rewarding them for their ill behavior

You don't know that. The series has repediatly rammed the idea that their is a behind the scenes plan going on. That the future cannot be changed and that everything is already determined. He probaby began to see the future through causality the moment he joined the godhand. Plus, how could the ritual even have completed if Guts and caska are still alive? Femto shouldn't exist if he didn't get all his intended ingredients.

Im starting to thing you people are legit stupid.

This

I mean, he's a Griffith supporter. What do you expect?

>Guts is far closer to being the villain that griffith
This is what Griffithfags actually believe. Kek. Stay delusional.
>Not until he overhead griffith after MURDERING A FUCKING CHILD
And for who?
Also, unless Griffith, Guts was sick and depressed after killing the child. That's probably what made him think about getting away from Griffith.
You know what Griffith did when he learned about the child's death? He smiled like a mad motherfucker. He went full Keikaku doori.

I mean, you're probably baiting but I'm not sure, there might be people retarded enough to believe Griffith did nothing wrong.

I know it's probably nothing, but I find the fact that he is/was known as the White Hawk and the bringer of darkness really interesting and makes me think that it might not be talking about Griffith, but actually Guts. But that's not based on any facts.

Like for example?

> Betrayed all comrades to become a demon and gain power to rule all things
> Stated what a friend should be like because he had no equals and felt lonely and when the guy actually tries to live to his standards and become a true friend he rapes his girlfriend (repeatedly) and marks him as a sacrifice fucking his life forever

Seriously... his only redeeming quality is that he secretly wants Guts to kill him as his best friend because he regrets it.

>The God Hand itself is the incarnation of evil
I just don't know enough about the godhand to really say anyting about this shit. Like, they've never even done anything. I've always been under the impression it was like a "Ultimate power ultimately irrupts" thing. Like, the godhand is evil because they've been corrupting by the power of god, not because their inherently evil. Griffith has shown no desire to harm others post revive.

>This is your head canon and you're fine to stick with it but don't expect anyone else to buy it when he's on record stating that the chapter is canon but gave away too much about the world.
well even if it's cannon or whatever, all the ioe said was that griffith should follow his own path. Not to be evil or destroy all humans. If anything, it shows how the concept of evil is flawed because of the flawed humans that created it. Its just shows that evil is a matter of perspective.

We do though, the God Hand was quite literally described as the epitome and final incarnation of Evil. They are up to some shady shit you must admit, there's really nothing to argue about, if you want to keep thinking Griffith is not the same as them by all means do but I honestly can't se a reasonble explanation as to why that would be. I guess time will tell, assuming Miura doesn't die first? If Griffith turns out not to be the bad guy this time around I'll be the first one to admit I was wrong

I will never understand how or why people try to defend Griffith.

It will be satisfying when everything comes tumbling down on him.The only question is will Griffith lose everything because the other Godhand members betray him,his own stupidity or Guts.

The whole point of the series though is that Guts and Casca ARE fighting against fate though...
They obviously are branded as sacrifices, that is what the ritual is. He turned into Femto before it was completed. Plus, your only arguments are 'he didn't kill EVERYONE, therefore he dindu nuffin wrong'
He's still a bad person, and has done nothing morally justifiable.

Never said he was all that smart though. I re watched a year ago and realized he was pretty fucking hasty and killing fake L was really fucking stupid. But that doesn't make anything he did bad. Plus, near asspulled his way to victory. Mellow was the best character though. He actually showed emotion and had a goal. Light was just bored and seemed to have no real desire.

Actually the Idea of Evil literally said that Griffith can destroy or save humanity.

Evil in Berserk is more complex. Most people don't understand it and misinterpret the entire manga.

He sold his ass to a fat guy, lke a cheap whore.

Guts, more like JUST

The Idea of Evil's idea of saving humanity is probably the same as destroying humanity.

I don't even get this whole debate. What's wrong with Griffith being a piece of shit? I think it only adds up to his character, you can see him as ambiguous in some regards but how you can come to state he's a good guy who literally did nothing wrong and that even now he's still pure with no bad intents whatsoever is beyond me. Apart from the fact that we really don't know what he's up to, if there's any malicious shit behind Falconia or if he's genuinely interested in saving mankind, so arguing for one or the other seems kind of pointless until we know more about it. I know it's not nice to have such a big thing left unanswered but I'm not sure we get the full picture yet. I still think he's actually setting up Falconia to be a massive ruse to humanity and that shit is going to happen real fuckin' soon.

By Guts of course. He'll ask Griffith "tell me y tell me y tell me wat u wan" before ending him.

Calling it now, Conrad will be the first God Hand member to die.

Griffith didn't send him to kill the child. He sent him to kill the adult. I don't even remember if he told griffith that he killed the kid.

>Guts was sick and depressed after killing the child.
Guts may have been hurt a little. But he didn't leave the band for being hurt. He left because he was below Griffith. He was sad when he heard Griffith saying they weren't friends (which could have been a lie to seduce the princess). Guts was just like a little girl finding out her boyfriend is just with her because she's a good fuck. Plus, if anything - this shows how much Griffith and Guts actually cared about eachother.

>I mean, you're probably baiting but I'm not sure, there might be people retarded enough to believe Griffith did nothing wrong.
I know Griffith did things wrong. Guts did shit wrong. Everone fucks up here and there. Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.

Personally I don't view the Idea of Evil to be a bad thing.
It's evil, sure, but let's not forget that it was created by humans, for humans. For them to put their blame on, without it, all they would have would be to blame themselves or each other. In that state, I'm guessing St. Albion would be very indicative of what the world would be like without it.

I don't know why I wasted time looking this up instead of finishing Shinsekai Yori but here's the proof that Griffith doomed his friends to a shit show of an afterlife

...

Your right, the fact that slan showed up in the guts of the trolls shows that they are a little fucked. But i don't think griffith is like them. Also, Griffith seems to symbolically represent the thumb, meaning the others cannot act without him.

Falcoia is basically a huge trap,Griffith creates a fake utopia lures as many people possible there and then the whole place becomes a demon rape/genocide party.

I'm guessing he'll sacrifice all of the human subjects in Falconia to try and become something greater
that or he'll sacrifice the other members of Godhand directly to the idea of evil, assuming it still exists

>Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.

He basically made most of the world "Live in my castle or get raped by trolls"
In the newest chapter the head wizard even further states that he's disturbing the hell out of reality by blending planes.

>He's still a bad person, and has done nothing morally justifiable.
False, fuckface. Just because someone does something bad, doesn't make them a bad person. And the lives he's saved, and the kingdom he's build, and the future he's creating are all worth the sacrifice. He's even put most of the apostles in their place.

>tfw no good end for Guts not now not ever
why does his life have to be so hard

>Griffith didn't send him to kill the child. He sent him to kill the adult. I don't even remember if he told griffith that he killed the kid.
Griffith was well aware the target had a kid and that there might have been consequences. If he was in Guts' place, he'd have killed the kid without any kind of remorse or second thoughts, because he was in the way of his dream.
Also, yes, Griffith hears from someone that the target and his son were killed by a burglar. He smiles like a mad man, immediately.

>Guts may have been hurt a little. But he didn't leave the band for being hurt
Debattable, I think the murder of the kid played a part in Guts not wanting to clean Griffith's mess anymore. It doesn't matter anyway because Guts won his freedom by defeating Griffith in a duel. And going out of his way to ensure Griffith would survive (when Griffith didn't care about killing him). He had the right to go.

>Im just saying that the good he's done and the world he's created is worth the SACRIFICE he payed. It was clearly the right choice.
First, he didn't sacrified to save lives. He sacrified to get power because he was mad at Guts and was okay with sending demons to horribly kill his comrade.
Second, he killed millions by merging both realities.

an EXPENSIVE whore

Has anyone ever played KST over the Eclipse from the anime?

>Just because someone does something bad, doesn't make them a bad person.

I think dooming your loyal friends and followers to an eternity of hell is worth the label of bad person, but that's just me.

KST?

You do realize his kingdom is probably a deathtrap?

Even if Griffith's intentions were good do you think his demon buddies are going to continue playing by his rules? Godhand will screw him over when they feel like and genocide/rape everyone.

No, it's not.

IoE was created to control causality or fate. Why? Because people need reasons for everything. They can't accept that their life and suffering is pointless.

It's not about blaming some unknown entity. It's about believing that there is some purpose to their suffering.

Don't forget how Ubik like to torture the everliving shit out of all the people we've met by playing mind tricks and showing them horrible visions of the past. Don't forget Conrad and his plague decimating thousands and thousands. I hope for your sake you're right about Griffith, because if it turns out most of the people here are right (assuming we ever get to see it) it's gonna be embarassing to say the least

We know shit about the Godhand besides the fact that Void was SK's Griffith equivalent, Slan is a sexy bitch, and Femto is a massive faggot.

That's exactly my point. You can't just be a retard and say "he did some bad stuff, that means he's evil and should die!". It's about results and what your willing to go through and sacrifice to reach those ends. I think people fail to see that sacrifice is necessary. Guts has done plenty of evil shit also, but people don't consider him evil.

Griffith pleases old men for money! Ohohohoho!

What makes you so confident that the idea of evil has humanity's best interests in mind?

Griffith killed thousands for his own personal sake and not to save other lives. His intent was to achieve Godhood by pactising with demons, and break his former friend as much as he could.
Just because his current war plans involve creating a comfy city doesn't negate any of that, and this "comfy city" is most likely a death trap, which'll make Griffith go from unredeemable to "must be killed as soon as possible"

Komm süsser Tod

Ah. Well, I guess my point still kinda stands, that it's a good thing to exist, just not a... Good thing
justbecauseyoureabadguy.jpg

Fuck you this isn't canon anymore, Griffith dindu nuffin

>What's wrong with Griffith being a piece of shit?
The argument is that he isn't a piece of shit, nigger.
>I still think he's actually setting up Falconia to be a massive ruse to humanity and that shit is going to happen real fuckin' soon.
This might happen, but all the previous evidence points towards the fact that he just wanted to become a king. Even during the ritual, all he thought about was rising to his kingdom. Maybe him and guts will have to team up against the rest of the hand. Or maybe, it doesn't matter. Maybe griffith will accept death after finally getting what he wanted.

Most of the evil Guts did was necessary to survive or was caused by Griffith bringing Hell to Earth.Griffith did evil things because he wanted absolute power.

It doesn't. Everything is explained in that chapter.

Idea of Evil doesn't exist outside of humanity. It's part of every human's soul. It doesn't have some hidden agenda.

yeah but I see some people getting stupidly mad and defensive when clear evicence about him being an asshole is pointed out. Which doesn't necessarily mean he's the worst guy ever, that is debatable, but to go as far as to say he's not a piece of shit after all he's done makes me truly wonder what you guys have been smoking

>guts and griffith tagteaming against the god hand

it's a retardedly stupid concept but I can't deny I'd love to see it just to witness Sup Forums's reaction

The thing is, "the end justifies the means" isn't exactly something you can apply in any context and any situation. And even if you could, Griffith doomed thousands of lives to eternal hell, not to achieve a result but only for his personal sake after he fucked himself up. For that reason he's undeniably evil, and the only reason he might be better alive than dead right now is because it might have unexpected bad consequences on the living. The only argument in his favor is literally "his cool magical powers are useful to people"

That ending to the mini arc with the fat demon king, the doctor, and the king's daughter was perfect. Almost everything from the earlier chapters was building up to that one particular panel.

There were always glimpses of Guts' true nature, and he was always able to hide it with that fake laugh. But seeing everything that went down between the king and his daughter was too much for him as it reminded him of all the crap the he went through. Seeing sad Guts makes me sad too.

>BEFORE LONG, YOU WON'T EVEN BE ABLE TO PRESERVE ANY FINAL REMNANTS OF YOUR INDIVIDUAL SELF.

>LIKE A DROP OF WATER, YOU'LL DISSOLVE, BECOMING NO MORE THAN ANOTHER SWELL IN AN OCEAN OF DARK SOULS.

can you shits even fucking read? That is not "eternal suffering and death". They simply cease to exist. There is literally no better outcome.