BREXIT

Is Juncker right, Britbongs? He is a drunk fool, but on this onr, he might be correct.

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No, he's just throwing a childish tantrum and has been doing so for months. He's only making himself look like a fool.

>Juncker says more expensive wine is needed for my daily afternoon buzz

German here.

These Brits have made a terrible mistake with Brexit, They'll never leave and if they do they'll come straight back to us

So you don't think miracles are necessary for progress?

>they'll
You are not German. Germans never use these abbreviations.

got anymore photos of this guy's meals?

The EU seems as much to blame, if not more, than Britain in this whole process. It is clear that the EU doesn't want this to happen so they're dragging their feet every way possible. It's pretty pathetic.

Not that Britain is faultless, they have their own issues, but the EU really seems to be coming off as enormous assholes that justify why Britain wants to get away from you all.

Remember when he said all his speeches would be in french from now on, Whatever happened to that?

He is absolutely correct, it will take a miracle for Eurocrats to act anything other than butthurt clingy faggots. We just need to walk away, fuck em

Just yesterday the lead negotiator for the EU said talks were going well, but that there were still some significant differences between the positions (read: We don't want to pay for some shit) so some combination of these

>is clear that the EU doesn't want this to happen so they're dragging their feet every way possible.

the EU has clear goals. They want no border for Ireland (or Ireland will veto any deal), want all EU citizens in the UK protected and want all obligations of the UK be paid in full. Additionally, there shouldn't be any tariffs on non-agricultural goods.

Brits have very different goals, in particular they don't want to pay their obligations, don't want EU citizens in Britain to have the possibility to stay in the UK if they lose their job and want no tariffs on services while wanting tariffs on machinery from Germany.

So let us see who wins.

Fuck Juncker.

On the other hand, Brits dither between delaying the Brexit and being delusional about conditions for post-Brexit trade. Since that is no basis for negitiations at all, what will probably happend is that when the time is up, Brits are kicked out of the EU with economies on BOTH sides suffering because of the botched up negotiations.

>We just need to walk away, fuck em

100 percent agree. The best move for everyone involved would be the breakdown of talks and a hard Brexit. The UK would be free and could then negotiate with the EU from the outside on a level playing field and the EU could claim that future seceding states will likely also crash out of the EU without an agreement... which would mean secession movements could not argue nothing will changd.

The goals the EU are setting are part of the reason behind Brexit, aren't they?

"You can leave but you still have to abide by a bunch of our rules" seems like a shit position.

What do you mean? The position the EU takes is what the EU states want. Why should the EU take positions that the UK want? The EU is supposed to work for the EU states, not for the UK.

No. The thing is: If you want to have a tariff free access to one of the biggest markets in the world, you have to comply with certain rules.

Either that, or you can say "fuck rules" and pay the tariffs.

This sounds like a protection racket.

>This sounds like a protection racket.
Dude, the EU's position is NO tariffs, the UK's position is "let's introduce all kinds of tariffs and protections for UK special interest".

Which country again is protecitonist? The whole reason all the British fishermen voted LEAVE was that they would be protected from European competition. Many million other workers and small businesses voted for LEAVE for the same reason.

Might have been true a year ago, but the EU's inflexibility, the bullying rhetoric of Germany and France, and the entitled gibs of the Vise graduate four has made such a thing impossible. The British people feel humiliated and angry with continentals. There'll be no return to the EU without it being completely overhauled, something that will never happen.

Yes, protection from out of control British politicians. Just imagine what would happen if they got access to our market without complying with rules. The whole thing would fall apart instantly, and we'd be back to 1949. Good job, Brits. Ruining not only your own island, but the entire continent.

So in order for that not to happen, you have to find the balance: We don't want to stop trade completely, we're interested in good trade relations. On the other hand, if we make he exit too easy, everybody will go picking raisins and we can't have that.

Be realistic. There was never a way back into the EU for Britain. Never.

From June 23, 2016 onwards, the only question that ever emerged is when Britain leaves the EU, not if. The question now is the conditions of leaving and it looks like we are talking about a Canada style post-Brexit agreement. That's good for the EU and bad for Britain - even if you don't like to hear that. But you aren't a great manufacturing country, so a Canada style agreement is good for the EU and only partially good for BRitain. London will only be able to partially compensate for lost business with more business in Africa and Asia. Asia has strong regional financial centered such as Hong Kong, Singapore and now also Shanghai, Tokyo, Beijing and Soul.

If you were a German, you wouldn't use that meme flag faggot.

That is a complete lie.

The UK position is as little trade barriers as possible, meaning the less tariffs the better.

The EU already has thousands of tariffs on outside products. They're pretty happy forcing everyone to buy German or buy nothing.

>The UK position is as little trade barriers as possible, meaning the less tariffs the better.

Are you freaking kidding me? The UK wants all kinds of trade barriers - that's the whole negotiating position! Getting out of the single market, removing EU law from the UK, introducing own laws, protecting fishermen and farmers, putting tariffs on German goods - have you not followed the whole debate???

>The UK position is as little trade barriers as possible, meaning the less tariffs the better.
What you really mean is: UK wants no export trade barriers but at the same time wants import trade barriers to protect it's business. UK wants to eat the cake and have it too. That's why there is no progress.

>The EU already has thousands of tariffs on outside products.

The EU is the market with the most free trade agreements in the whole wide world - and has the lowest tariffs of any market. Look it up. America has lots of special punitive tariffs on e.g. Chinese goods - we don't.

The "thousands of tariffs" is what the WTO allows - just like America. But we are talking about 4% on flowers from Mauritius and 7% on cars from Japan and 3% on Argentinian meat etc.

America has things like 220% tariffs on Canadian airplanes.

The UK wants 50% tariffs on fish imports from the EU. The UK wants capital controls for outside investors. The UK rejects a Swiss style tariff deal (Switzerland has no tariffs on goods imports of up to 300 Swiss francs per person, but VAT equalisation and special tariffs above that).

youtu.be/nFW5eSOHeTU

You clearly haven't. Firstly, the UK wants to leave the Single Market and Customs Union because it restricts trade. Protecting fisherman by actually allowing them to have more than 9% of the catch from home waters, subsidising farmers directly instead of subsiding the entirety of France's agricultural economy through the CAP, and the tariff on German goods was a potential counter to punitive tariffs by the EU, not a desired outcome.

Seems pretty free trade to me.

I don't think you understand. In economic terms Britain wants to continue on exactly as we are, without tariffs. It is on you to impose those on us. Same with an Irish border. We don't need to do anything at all. If the EU wants border controls you'll have to impose them.

Britain is not trying to impose anything on you. We are only disentangling your tentacles from our various institutions.

There's nothing good for the EU in Britain leaving, that's the reason for EU butthurt. A major revenue strand is ending, at a point of a major increase in spending. Britain was a major industrial country, transitioned to a service economy in the 1980- 1990s. Free from EU regulation can take either path.

>In economic terms Britain wants to continue on exactly as we are, without tariffs.
That is a lie. It doesn't. That is the whole point of getting out of the single market! If you are not in the single market, you are not subject to tariff free and non-tariff barriers free trade. That's why the single market exists.

The only thing you can get is an FTA - just like Canada has with the EU. Under such an FTA there are tariffs on certain goods - tariffs you are demanding, e.g. on fish and other agricultural products as well as on machining parts. These FTAs are also not really removing any non-tariffs barriers or investment barriers.

Why are you lying? Your own government is saying exactly that - they want the "best possible deal" but they don't want the single market. The best possible deal outside of single market membership is a Canada deal. Just as the best possible deal with the US is a TTIP style deal... unless you become their 51st state.

I am not kidding here, read up on this yourself.

Says the guy with a government full of incompetent inbred idiots.

This.

Well yeah, the EUs official response to any Brexit talks are to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "LALALALA IM NOT LISTENING" as loud as they can.

When that is how one side is acting, yeah you need a fucking miracle. Hopefully they keep that shit up until time runs out so we can just leave and be done with it.

>Protecting fisherman by actually allowing them to have more than 9% of the catch from home waters, subsidising farmers directly instead of subsiding the entirety of France's agricultural economy through the CAP, and the tariff on German goods was a potential counter to punitive tariffs by the EU, not a desired outcome.

Which is my whole point. You want your own rules on many areas. If you have your own rules, you also want to protect these areas of your economy. E.g. if you want to lower subsidies for your farmers, you will need to put tariffs in place so they can be competitive. If you want to increase your subsidies, other countries (incl. America) will want tariffs so you have no unfair advantage.

You e.g. want your own standards on machining goods and cars. If so, your machining goods and cars are produced to your standards and cannot be sold in the EU without adhering to EU standards... and vice versa. You do understand what non-tariff barriers are, right?

Well yes, miracle will be needed, as the Eu are dragging the talks out. WHich is what they are espexially good at. Their plan is to have nothing in place afetr 2 years in the hope that britain will agree to extend the deadline meaning the talks will never end and britain stays in the EU by proxy.

Sorry but you'll have to go home, you know.

>A major revenue strand is ending

5% of payment to the EU go to the EU admin, 95% are redistributed within CAP, infrastructure spending, research and development etc.

The EU doesn't care about the UK money - the admin costs are not in jeopardy. The only countries that care about UK money not coming in any more are those countries affected by the end of that monetary stream... net receivers such as Greece, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria. Even more so, these countries get billions each year from their nationals working in the UK and sending money home or returning to their nations after having worked in the UK.

So, the EU cares about the EU admin (which is not in question), Germany cares about goods exports and doesn't care about UK payments and Eastern and Southern Europe cares about UK net payments and immigration to the UK.

I hope you understand the different positions better now.

We've already seen that you can't negotiate with the EU when Cameron tried to get reform before the referendum, he came back with nothing.

It's a waste of time, I can never see the EU making a special case for a country; especially one that's (soon) outside the EU.

The fuck are you talking about Hans? A tariff is just a tax, it has no relation to regulations, standards or quality of goods. They're two different things.

Britain os willing to have a soft border in northern Ireland (we can establish a hard border at points of entry in the british mainland from NI so this is not a problem), is willing to give protections to eu citizens in exchange for the same fro brits in europe but the 'obligations' havent been put forward. So send the list.

>A tariff is just a tax, it has no relation to regulations, standards or quality of goods. T
I am talking about tariffs and non-tariff barriers. Try to at least understand the subject we are talking about.

Trying to negotiate with the EU is so pointless that when they tried it with Canada the guy in charge of negotiations had a fucking breakdown and said the EU is fucking retarded and even trying to negotiate with them is pointless.

It's the reason the EU has so few free trade agreements. They literally cannot agree on anything and negotiating with them is a waste of time.

Everyone who trades with europe has to meet european standards though, britain has never said otherwise.

It's a vain hope that will only damage them. The strength of UK opinion on the matter. Was pointed out during the last election. With pro remain party's the libs and SNP, doing very badly.

I can just about stomach May's offer so she needs to stick with that offer and if they continue being mardy prats then she needs to walk away.

The moment the EU refused to even negotiate until they got paid is the moment she should have walked away.

>The EU is the market with the most free trade agreements in the whole wide world
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

I count 35, including overseas territories. But most of them seem to be with shitholes no one cares about.

You don't count the 50 provisionally applied agreements... why? They are in force.

America has 21 agreements...

Your forgetting the EU plans for more integration. An EU army alone won't come cheep. If the EU didn't need that input of foreign capital to prop up the euro. Then why the insistence that it continues.

Nah man that customs union with Bailiwick of Jersey has got to be worth trillions of euros.

Fine, more shitholes with little economic benefit. Seriously the only decent ones are with Chile and South Korea.

Thats just so the european elite can dump their money away from prying eyes, its also to help amazon as they are based there

Haha holy shit it's fucking true. Just read up on it, they have the EUs balls in a clamp and can get whatever they want by just mentioning the money.

You are a liar of the lowest order, I wish you a long and healthy life so you can watch all your children die of cancer

> Leaders

Nobody wants them, elected them, respects them. They need to be beaten to death eith stones have their faces smashed in.

Only the statist cock sucking leftist journallie calls those patheric mafiosos 'leaders'

That mafio snd sllthe journallie needs to be culled imho.

Anyone rlse thinks similarly ?

Go on then show me a source, back up your wild claims you shit eating tumour

I count 2 free trade agreements

Holy shit you're a total fucking moron who doesn't know what a tariff is

He just likes saying it because its an arabic word

>don't want to pay their obligations
we have no obligations if we leave

Dont u get it ? May, that anti white, anti male, pro 'no limits immigration' refugee loving
Witch
Is part of the cabal

!!!

Or a leader with a pair of balls to tell you to fuck off. That cunt May has to go.

We are hard Brexit mode with no deal and it will be glorious

Will pro-EU British people commit mass-suicide?

>he's just throwing a childish tantrum and has been doing so for months. He's only making himself look like a fool.
All true, but that doesn't mean that he is wrong. The Brexit talks haven't exactly gone very smooth.

>I count 2 free trade agreements
Ok then. And I count agreements with 80 countries in force or provisionally applied (not including EU countries or EEA countries and not including agreements in negotiations or finalized and not signed yet).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union_free_trade_agreements

Reality is on my side it seems.

Why is the eu leadership full of alkys?

>Go on then show me a source
A source for what? That the UK wants the "best possible deal" but no single market membership?

Or that CETA exists?

Or that TTIP was in negotiation and was pretty much CETA just with America?

Or that agricultural products will continue to be subject to tariffs under CETA?

Explain what source you want for which statement.

>Fine, more shitholes with little economic benefit.

90% of your exports are to countries which are A. in the EU, B. EEA members, C. Switzerland (part of the single market through bilateral agreements), D. the EU has FTAs with or E. America (with which TTIP was in negotiation prior to Trump) and China (with which you don't want an agreement, because they export way more to you than you to them).

I think the shitholes with little economic benefits are those with which the EU doesn't have FTAs.

>Your forgetting the EU plans for more integration.
No, I don't. EU integration in areas such as capital markets (eliminating national authorities which e.g. make it burdensome to do an IPO as an EU-wide IPO or sell bonds to investors etc.) save money, not cost money.

>An EU army alone won't come cheep.
And that is why? The EU army is a misnomer. The EU army is nothing but national armies which in the future have streamlined procurement criteria and can communicate with each other.

> If the EU didn't need that input of foreign capital to prop up the euro.
What foreign capital?

>Then why the insistence that it continues.
That the EU continues? The EU is required so Europe can freely trade with each other and so that a German can invest in a French company or buy a condo in Lisbon or a Polish plumber can move to Munich or a Greek nurse can buy a German VW without paying 40% tariffs etc.