Did he get lucky, or did he legitimately win?

Did he get lucky, or did he legitimately win?

If weren't for Gilgamesh's stubborness, by using Ea early, he would've won right?

It's not like Shirou can copy Ea

>streaming

Yes, Gil wasn't taking him seriously and Shirou won because of that. Or something along those lines.

Generally the way it goes with Gil is that he could destroy everyone if he took everything seriously from the start but he sandbags and gets bodied because of it, or at least that's how Nasu likes to tell it.

fighting an unworthy opponent seriously is like losing to Gilgamesh

Yeah, but it's dubious if Shirou would have let him draw Ea anyway, not to mention that 100% Ea takes some time to activate

Gil is the king of jobbers

Better than getting sucked into a space vagina

Shirou won the battle as soon as he brought Gil into UBW. It didn't matter if Gil pulled out Ea after that cuz Shirou wouldn't have let him use it anyway.

>not deleting it after
Lazycunt

nah, he can fight even archer with UBW if he wants

Unironically responding to a streamfag

>gilfags are streamfags
Quite ironic

(You)

You need to be at least 18 to post on this board.

>Did he get lucky, or did he legitimately win?

Yes, both sorta, but there's more to it. People interpret this fight however they want pretty often, however there are a lot of factors to take in. Yes he could have lost if Gil got serious before he got the Reality Marble up in time, Yes Gil could have won if he didn't hesitate to draw Ea in that one moment potentially according to Nasu, although if Gil had won that way Nasu says he would have broken down a bit afterwords since it would hurt even worse than if he had lost, since he gave up his pride in that moment.

I'll post that interview from UBW BD II in a few posts that talks about all this.

It was a moment that was basically impossible, in every way the servant was stronger and outweighed him, but through compatibility of powers and some elements lining up, the weakest was able to beat the strongest.

Nasu loves that fucking trope. Its basically a theme in every game he makes. Mistake people usually make is thinking that since Shirou won he was stronger; no he was weaker in a thousand ways, but Fate fighting really doesn't work in a linear way.

Gil could've won if he pulled EA out from the start.

However in the VN Shirou used UBW to outsmart and beat Gil. In the anime Shirou bruteforced Gil and didn't really use UBW all that much.

>Miura: But when you look at it rationally, until 24, when Shirou says, "I don't care if it's fake," he hasn't awakened yet. So looking back, I'm glad he truly gained his full powers around the battle with Gilgamesh. If he'd suddenly gone full power when he fought Archer, the Gilgamesh battle would've paled in comparison. You once told me, "The Gilgamesh battle is the moment when Shirou Emiya shines the BRIGHTEST in his life."

>Nasu: It does seem like the peak of his life. In sports, I'm sure there are times when a lesser opponent gets the better of the one reigning at the top. And that's not because he's always had that ability, but because of various factors like "I've really got it today," or "When I get home today, I'm getting married." When those things come into play, people can transcend their own specs. That's why Gilgamesh says at the end, "Today you're stronger." For Gilgamesh, it's not his life that he values, but what he modeled his legend on. The reason he didn't want to use Ea was because if he'd done so against an inferior opponent, he wouldn't have been able to face the heroes who'd beaten by Ea.

>And yet, when he was unable to draw Ea against Shirou, Gilgamesh was clearly defeated in this Holy Grail War. Conversely, had he managed to draw Ea in time despite his hesitation, it would've been a heavier burden for Gilgamesh to bear than death.

Basically yeah, Gilgamesh's hesitation caused him to lose, also his arrogance. Even though he was stronger, he was cocky, and this lead to his downfall in the battle.

>Nasu: "Yes, you told me that you wanted to make episodes featuring Illya. It's true that normally, Illya appears as a main character in the Saber route, but this time around there was no opportunity to tell inside stories. So I suggested that if they were going to spend a whole episode on the Berserker battle, why not include the Einzbern story in there?

>Miura: "It really hit hard it was to cover as much possible from the source material divided into three stories. Heaven's Feel was already slated to be produced after this, so we didn't really go into Kirei Kotomine's background, though. Either way, for this title, we had to keep the other routes in mind throughout the production process. Also, another thing you said was, "Make sure that Gilgamesh never uses Ea against Shirou in #23." That made me panic."

>Nasu: "Oh, I'm so sorry. But if he'd used it, it would've been difficult for Shirou (plus alpha) to block it on his own. Since it was just text in the visual novel, I was able to get away with it, but in anime, with the visuals, it would definitely look awkward... I mean, it would totally blow the cover of the one who comes to his aid. So I said to show Ea, but not use it, and said something along the lines of "What? Riddles?"

>Miura: "I really racked my brain over that. In the end, I made it so that even though the Ea was used, Shirou got caught up into it, and you'd think, "Huh? Did Shirou die?" In reality, the jersey he was wearing was what killed.

>Nasu: "Since Kojiro started out as a character in the Saber route, there really isn't much point in UBW for him to exist as an enemy Servant. But he did have another reason to exist that made him indispensable, and that was his dialogue with Saber at the end. Kojiro's great quest to save the world, and his simple desire to engage in the battle of a life time were one and the same. Even if these wishes differed in size, the amount of passion he felt for them was the same.

He legitimately won. Luck is one part of a battle..

Gil didnt take him seriously.

Didnt pull Ea when in a reality marble like he did with Rider.

And hes not wearing is gaudy armor.

Miura: As this was an episode featuring battles, we loaded it up from the very beginning. Including that line you wrote, "That's hell you're walking into," we deviated from the game significantly.

Nasu: The first script that ufotable brought to me had a lot of sentences lifted from the original game, but since we'd just end up replicating those scenes, I realized that I had to retool it for the anime. But when I rewrote it myself, it was just cool, and not compelling at all. So when I re-read the original game, it was totally grim. That's when I realized that that was the essence of UBW, and the lines that took 30 minutes for the characters to utter in-game, I cut down to five. But I had no idea how it would be brought to the screen, so in my head I was thinking "Sorry, Mr Miura," but it turned out to be a wonderful film, and personally, I'm overjoyed.

Miura: Initially, we considered drawing out the battle till #22, but we realized it would be impossible.

Nasu: The showdown had to be settled at the end of #21, or it would've been a letdown as a story. So in their minds, they'd decided to battle it ouat the moment their swords clashed at the end of the previous episode.

Miura: This is something that I personally requested you to add, but the look on Gilgamesh's face when he was told that Kirei was dead. I wanted so badly to do something for him in that moment, so I put some extra effort into that.

Nasu: Yes, it really was the kind of silence that you could take either way.

Miura: I also really like how Gilgamesh told Shinji in that scene, "You really did great, Shinji." The king is actually praising him!

Nasu: You can see how highly Gilgamesh regarded Shinji!

The thing you're missing is that there is no such thing as a serious gil. It's his heroic fatal flaw and the same thing as saying Achilles would body everyone in Ancient Greece if it weren't for his heel. It's inherent to the character. Gilgamesh without ego is not gilgamesh.

Yes, Gilgamesh has an answer to almost fucking everything in his NPs, and in terms of theorycrafting and hypothetical who would wins, that should make him unstoppable. But unfortunately all that is nerfed by literally being who he is. Even if he saw UBW coming, he still wouldn't put on his armor, and he still wouldn't start off with Ea cause he'd refuse to believe Shirou's projections were worth shit.

You guys gave a lot of insightful answers including word of god but I thought it was because Gil just used his gate of babylon every time and he was really weak ass fighter whereas Archer and Shirou actually had technique and trained to fight

>Has gotten serious three or four times in the franchise so far
>"No NO NO, that doesn't count, he doesn't exist!"

This is always a dumb excuse people like to throw around. Against Kiara and BB, Gilgamesh tells Hakuno to use Ea and Enkidu to his utmost, and allow him to wield his full power in this moment. Against Enkidu in Fate/Strange GIl says he isn't holding back, he will never hold back against this one person because he can't afford it. Against Karna in CCC, Gilgamesh freezes upon seeing him, and instantly goes into battle mode after recognizing he can't play around like normal, as he refuses to even open his mouth as he keeps surveying whether this will become a fight. Against Alexander in F/Z Gilgamesh was serious from the start and used his ability without reserve. Against Saber in Fate route Gilgamesh was quite serious as well.

It happens, but people refuse to ever recognize it, and pretend its a pink elephant that doesn't exist and count ever exist and can't count.

Gilgamesh can be defeated when he's facing a weak enemy with a trump card but he can't be defeated when he knows the enemy in front of him is strong.

Can I get an ass pull?

>Against Saber in Fate route Gilgamesh was quite serious as well.
No? He only used EA after toying around with her both times.

Gilgamesh can fight with blades decently, as shown in Fate route and CCC. However the difference between him and other servants is that he has mastered no weapon to its utmost, he's only an owner.

Its the same for Shirou, even if Shirou copies someone elses fighting style it is degraded copy that doesn't really fit his body. The only fighting style that fits him is Archer's, and even that will take him awhile to really master, he's just a faker. Shirou says he's the same as Gilgamesh when they fight, and that's why they can match each other. They're both one trick ponies basically, who have mastered no blade, but they both can spam.

Gilgamesh's normal hand to hand style if he ever had to fight another servant involves switching weapons a lot and throwing them off, but against Shirou who can recognize any blade instantly and knows what they do, its useless. He can't throw Shirou off with this, let alone even draw his weapons properly.

Gilgamesh is a fine swordsman. Secondaries and autists like to perpetuate the meme that he isn't a fighter because they only read UBW, but it's been shown throughout the years that he's competent with his weapons - it's just that he's not a 'master' of them like specialists.

Against a master of their craft, he would obviously lose in skill. However he's not shit ass weak.

Although the difference between master of their craft and one who can simply wield it is pretty big difference. Its the reason that Shirou says UBW would be ineffective against most other servants by itself, but its very effective against Gilgamesh. UBW can be an effective tool, but it can't be lauded around like an absolute trump card in the same way as GoB due to its differences.

Its basically rock, paper, scissors.

...

>In reality, the jersey he was wearing was what killed.
Jersey daiyo, Jersey

lelmaou

It's bad writing.

It was luck.

If Gil gad decided on using Ea earlier, shirou would have lost

But if you know anything about Gil's character, you would understand just why he didn't bring Ea out earlier.

The quote's already in this thread, but to him, keeping his legend intact is more important than any individual battle.

What does it say when the tool he used to on Alexander the Great, and the culmination of all of humanity's sins, had to be brought out to take on a high school kid? How do you weave that into an epic poem?

The fact that he had to bring it out anyway, and still lost, is what makes it his ultimate defeat.

Thread n°8597541368 about this.

Report and leave.

You do know that impersonating the mods is a bannable offense, right?

What makes it worse is that he still went to take it out when he realized he was losing, then went for the chaingrab from oblivion to drag shirou down with him.
I know its 'the grail corrupted him' sort of excuse but seriously that is some low shit.

He won because he came inside Rin.

That's a win if I've ever heard one.