Let's say the EU was purely a free trade area. Would you stay in it then?

Let's say the EU was purely a free trade area. Would you stay in it then?

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As long as the banks have control, it doesn't matter.

yea i would have voted remain in this case

i would only support it if it were a superstate ruled by technocratic corporate cyborg dynasty

Which banks exactly?

And are you really suggesting the US is free from control by a moneyed elite? Hahaha don't make me laugh.

Okay now here's another question. What if the current EU was ruled by a right-wing government, with somebody like Viktor Orban at the helm? Someone who closed the borders to Europe? Would you vote to remain then?

That's a tough one because essentially it would be a mono-state and the cultural differences between nations in Europe would be eroded, as nations are being eroded.

If UK gov was Right Wing as well, I would vote leave hoping to have a good relation with the Right Wing EU.
If we have sharia may or migrant corbyn in charge or any of the other possible leaders, including the new lefty UKIP leader, I would vote remain.

Wasn't that what it was originally until they went full globalist and turned it into a political and economic union?

>Have to lower my tariffs
>no protectionism possible
no

>essentially it would be a mono-state and the cultural differences between nations in Europe would be eroded
Why do you think that? Are the cultural differences between the EU countries being eroded right now? I don't think they are.

Is the French culture of Quebec eroded by being part of Canada? I don't think it is at all. The fact that the national government of Canada has to translate every single one of its documents into French as well as English, just for the benefit of one single province, shows that Canada respects the different culture of its different provinces.

And look at America, is anybody FORCING every single state to adopt the same culture? No they're not - Texas has a very different culture to California. Alabama has a very different culture to Washington state. The people determine the culture, not the government.

I think the EU is advantageous because it can make us into a superpower that can beat America. All I want is for the EU to police its borders properly, and I also think that if it wants to continue existing in its current form, it needs to be more properly democratic. A right-wing EU would be fucking badass and we would beat the entire world at everything. And no, we wouldn't have to homogenise our cultures, there's literally no reason to believe that whatsoever.

You could say that - but really, the "political" element is just a consequence of the economic union. Namely it's a result of the single market (which Thatcher was one of the main proponents of).

The single market came about in 1993. As you probably know, the main idea of it is to standardise regulations across the EU, so that good and services from one country can be sold to all the other countries without any regulatory barriers.

>Crumbling clusterfuck is crumbling clusterfuck.
Are you in the bargaining phase now my remoaning friend?

So you want a return to European wars? France and Germany fighting over the Rhineland again?

Yeah I wonder if you'd still be saying that when your number is called up for conscription, and you're sent into battle with just a rifle and a helmet, and where your chances of death are very high.

Why are you such a fucking idiot? You think anybody who says anything positive about the economic union of Europe (which has OBJECTIVELY benefitted every single one of our countries) is NECESSARILY a Remain voter?

Well, you're literally wrong because I voted Leave, so I guess that shows how fucking stupid you are.

You have the lexicon of an archetypal leftist. Get back to your safe space, Remoancuck.

Western European nations should feel a brotherhood between them. It should go without saying that we seek to mutually benefit each other, instead of (((the other))).
Crush the EU, then let's talk.

Are you legally retarded by any chance? You don't have the intelligence to actually make an argument?

>Western European nations should feel a brotherhood between them.
Sure, but also Poland and Hungary are two of the nations that are currently the most anti-immigrant so we have much to agree upon with them.

Imagine if the EU was a proper superpower that could absolutely thrash the fucking yanks over the pond, I think it would be amazing.

All we need to do is enforce our fucking border, particularly along the Mediterranean, but also the Balkan/Turkey route as well. That's the only thing I really hate about the EU.

>when you have to bump your own shit thread

If it was only a free trade area, then, yeah, I'd be pro-EU.

It's the whole ''bringing millions of shitskins in'' part that I hate about it. It helped rebuild Western Europe after WW2, and it was a way to bring us all closer, to avoid a third war in Europe.

But fucking federalists have turned it into an autoritarian shitfest

Yes.

just get rid of the comision

Why are you so fucking thick that you can't make an argument? It's because you know I'm right isn't it?

>imagine if we could fight Americans
Got an entire nuclear arsenal that says thats bad idea for both of us

This is why I think it should be a right-wing union, imagine if Viktor Orban was the leader, it would be fucking based, we'd have a border force policing the Mediterranean, a big fucking wall on the border with Turkey to stop anybody coming in

White Europeans should unite and become the most powerful force in the world

Imagine if it was a right-wing Commission though, one which policed the border and took a zero-tolerance policy towards migrants. Then Europe would be a powerful, white superpower.

>purely a free trade area
if you mean able to trade without levies then yeah sure. Anything more than that; fuck off.

I mean economically Cletus, not militarily.

If you aggress upon us then we've got a ton of nukes that we will bomb you with.

yes but that will never happen cause on its core the EU is a new try at a USSR but with the goal of being more like china
half the comisions were commies in their youth

>What if the current EU was ruled by a right-wing government,
their political leanings are not the issue bong. So no. The EU can just fuck off.

What if it was a fascist superpower though? Mosley's vision for Europe? Would you not sign up to that?

So you'd rather remain an irrelevant shitty little country instead?

>"we need to give up our independence to the EU otherwise we'll just kill eachother!"

Lol kill yourself. You want to give up UK independence because Germany can't control themselves, or other EU countries will feel threatened by nationalism? How cucked can you get? Like wearing a chastity cage to make your female flatmate feel safe.

Whatever reduces your anxiety levels, friend.

As long as the countries have their autonomy: yes

Yes, at least then we can get rid of cancer like you.

nej fuck off. Denmark for Danes. England for bongs. And so on.

>So you'd rather remain an irrelevant shitty little country instead?
muh relevancy. Denmark is doing fine and we have survived for more than 1.5 thousand years. So ill take my chances sunshine.

>A tiny ass island off the coast of Europe
>Shoot 4 or 5 nukes tops at them
>decimate entire country

>Britain fires nukes at US
>worst case scenario east coast gets decimated
>other 75% of the country is fine

Yes please Achmed tell me why I should be afraid of a country we beat the shit out of 300 years ago

>"WITHOUT THE EU WE WOULD ALL DIE!"!! THE NAZIS WOULD RETURN!!!"
I hate you cunts and your lame arguments

I guess a fascistic EU will never happen, but one which actually polices the European border *could* well happen.

And what's the alternative? The alternative would be Europe breaking back into its constituent countries, and a return to petty disagreements across the continent, which might well even devolve into conflicts.

And if we break apart like that, then the former great powers of Europe will be reduced to minnows, because China and the US will be much more powerful than any individual European country. We would have to be slaves to their agendas (unless each of our countries built up its military again in a significant way, and went out to colonise the world again, like we did in the 16th-19th centuries)

You're already a slave to our agendas dipshit

The EU is an example of the fallacy of "if X is good, more of X is even gooder". A bit of economic integration and co-dependence with steel and coal helped stymy conflict between Europeans. The coal/steel cooperate and ECC did a good thing.

Clearly that means breaking down national barriers, importing millions of shitskins, eroding sovereignty and subordinating political decisionmaking to a multinational body is a good idea. (I'm being sarcastic)

It's not either or. You can go the middle road between pre ECC/Coal and steel cooperate and post EU. Laws about fishing and environmental regulations or the rights of rapeugees have little relevance to the industries the Europeans have to compete with us and the Chinese.

The biggest cuckolds I've ever seen, are you all enjoying your chastity cages? Cucking yourselves because you're so pathetic?

You want to be subject to the whims of America and China, huh? And even Russia too? If each European nation is separate then our countries will be powerless, unless we each build up massive militaries again and try and build empires again like we did in the 16th-19th centuries. Do you really think that's going to happen again? Is that how deluded you are?

Hahaha we'd blow your entire country up in 5 seconds

...

Free trade only, yes... everything else - no

Do you think those other superpowers are just going to let you build up a military unopposed? It's too late for Europe you cuck. The EU and UN designated Europe as the worlds Muslim dump so either get out now or revel in your goatfucking madness

it's all up to france now they are the only nuclear power in the eu now

Free trade is how the US took control of Canada

Eastern Europe should excluded from it until the salaries are close to Western standard. But yes, I would accept EU that did not have comission and we would create a loose framework for economic and maybe social issues.

"The UK has about 215 warheads in total, though it relies heavily on the US to maintain them"

independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/generalelection/trident-debate-there-are-16000-nuclear-missiles-in-the-world-but-who-has-them-and-does-britain-10164387.html


AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Nobody wants shitskins mate.

>It's not either or. You can go the middle road between pre ECC/Coal and steel cooperate and post EU.
Where's the room for expansion and growth? Every country has to have ambitions of expanding, growing, becoming more powerful.

If each European nation does that individually then it's just a return to the 16th-19th Century colonialism. And I'd love that - but I doubt that it's going to happen. You'd need millions of Brits willing to sign up to the armed forces, willing to go out across the world and conquer large swathes of land. It would be amazing if we could restore the empire - but I don't think there are enough Brits who are willing to do that.

So it's about realpolitik isn't it? And if Europe was a right-wing superpower which defended its borders, then we'd be able to become a superpower that rivals the US and China. We'd have tons of power in the world, economic power and military power.

>but one which actually polices the European border *could* well happen
its not a TRADE union's job to do guard any borders.
>And what's the alternative?
national borders just like the last 1 thousand years nigger.

>ou want to be subject to the whims of America and China, huh? And even Russia too?
ill take Russians any time a day then. At least Danes share culture and history with Russia. Far more than we do with Spain, France and Italy for instance.
but in all seriousness. You can fuck off with that speculation and fearmongering paki. Take you angst and go hang yourself.

And Canada is doing great. Problem?

Irrevelant country just doesn't become relevant when it joins federation. It is actually completely forgotten after that.

The problem is that the EU's seats in parliament is filled with cucks, along with most of the member countries' head of government.

free market would imply no welfare, so no rapefugees

>and maybe social issues.
nej... Social politics and trade have nothing to do with each other.

Yeah right, a fucking degenerate country full of chinks with a cuck prime minister, thanks america

Mate Europe already has strong militaries, Britain and France have two of the strongest militaries in the world. Add Europe together and we have a fighting force that can easily rival the US and China.

Besides, the US is going the way of the scrapheap. You guys are fucked. Your nation is falling apart because it's overrun by niggers. There will have to be a white superpower that rises from the flames, and that superpower will be Europe.

And Britain. Britain and France are the only two nuclear states in Europe.

The world is a world of empires - it always has been and it always will be. You either become the biggest empire or you get cucked into somebody else's.

I am thinking about working in other country and stuff but since you mentioned it it's more of an economic issue, too.

>US is overun by niggers
>meanwhile UK letting sand niggers live for free while they breed like rats
And again , US and China would NEVER allow you cucks to unite into one military.

The Baltics are cool, I don't mind you guys being in it. I wouldn't want the EU to expand any more though. I'm not a huge fan of Romania being in it, but there you are.

>national borders just like the last 1 thousand years nigger.
You mean the ones where we fought each other militarily for resources and opportunities to expand? Those thousand years, you fucking moron?

What's the point of returning to petty European squabbling, when we could team up and thrash China, thrash Africa, thrash South America, thrash the entire world? Why not unite the white man?

>ill take Russians any time a day then. At least Danes share culture and history with Russia
Hahaha you absolute cuckold. It's never going to happen because Europe is too strong to allow Russia to push in from the East. If you want to be cucked by Russia then go and move there, you absolutely pathetic fucking cuckolded bitch.

>You can go the middle road between pre ECC/Coal and steel cooperate and post EU
listen to moselys speech here youtube.com/watch?v=vrBbN0vvGLA
he makes a good point that if you dont go all in it will collapse in on itself because the members will fight among themselves

>I am thinking about working in other country
this is the main reason people in Denmark hates the EU. Being flooded with underpaid workers who fuck up the social economics of ones country leads to hatred of what should be friendly nations.
The left wants to leave the EU because of this. The right wants to leave the EU because of this.
So its a big no. You can have agreements between nations like Denmark and Norway have. But it needs to be kept to a singular country basis so one can keep in control. And thus its not something a union can or should deal with.

but britain is no longer eu

I am talking about loose framework and I said that we should exclude eastern europe but whatever lmao

Well you have to ask yourself how your country can gain greater wealth for itself? In the past, the European countries created empires. THAT'S how they expanded their wealth.

In today's world, I don't think that's going to happen again. So European nations can either remain separate, and allow the empires of the US and China to suck up all of the world's wealth, or we can join together to create a super force which will blow the chinks out of the water, and which will mean we're not pushed around by America.

Yes I agree with both of those points. But how are the individual nations of Europe going to project our power and become wealthier, if we end our union? We'd have to return to each European power establishing its own empire again. And I don't think that's going to happen. So instead if we form a superpower, we can create a European empire.

The US effectively has an empire. And China is building an empire. So we need to counteract that.

We're already doing it you faggot bitch and when your country blows apart we're going to be there to pick up the pieces and we're going to be the most powerful empire on the planet, and there's literally NOTHING you can do about it.

>What's the point of returning to petty European squabbling
nice strawman faggot

having national borders and countries does not equal constant warfare you mong. Its such a stupid argument that I can never understand why you cunts always present it.

>It's never going to happen because Europe is too strong to allow Russia to push in from the East.
What "Europe"? There is an EU an it has next to no military. NATO is too strong for Russia do anything.
>If you want to be cucked by Russia then go and move there
never said I would have anything to do with the fucking Russians. I just answer your stupid question of "its either chinks, burgers, EU faggots or subhuman Russians" and I knew instantly what evil I would chose. I would chose those closes to me culturally, genetically and historically.
You are a shame to your country Englaender.

I might watch that. I actually haven't listened to any of his ideas on Europe, I'm just aware of them.

True, we have lots of Poles and other Europeans who come here, and it would be good to have control over how many people come here.

I have bigger objections against non-European migrants coming across the Med though, and the EU trying to dole them out, that's absolute bullshit and it's the reason I voted to leave.

Technically we're still in it until 2019.

>exclude eastern europe
For Denmark case you should excule; the entire southern part of the EU, the Balkans, everything east of west Germany, half of France and so on. It can work on a union level as each nation are vastly different.

>being this delusional
Mehmet, please stop false flagging. Thank you.

>having national borders and countries does not equal constant warfare you mong. Its such a stupid argument that I can never understand why you cunts always present it.
Okay let's say the EU collapses and we all return to individual nations.

It's going to reduce the wealth of all of us. The US is a big massive superpower who can impose their will, because they're large and powerful. China can do the same. Each European country is just going to be at the behest of these powers. And the Russian power too.

>I would chose those closes to me culturally, genetically and historically.
So then surely you should be choosing Scandinavia rather than Russia?

Unless Denmark has suddenly turned Slavic? But I don't remember that happening?

Yeah, people are pessimistic because it's currently run by some faggot centrist/leftists.

They're undemocratic, and they ignore the people of Europe, and they have no intention of defending Europe's borders - THAT'S why people despise the EU.

But if we return to just individual nations, we're not going to be very powerful against the likes of the US and China. Our opportunities for growth are going to be limited.

The US has an empire of military bases across the world. China is building an empire, it's building massive aircraft carriers, and it's taking over the South China Sea. They're becoming a large imperial power. And they're building all these massive infrastructure projects in Africa, essentially turning Africa into a Chinese colony.

How is Britain going to be a great nation in that context? We'd have to build up our military again and then start recolonising the world to establish our power and global influence, and in order to create new economic opportunities - by seizing new territories with resources. Wealth is determined by resources.

And I would love it if Britain did that, but do you think that's likely to happen?

>the Russian power too
the glass bear its NOT an economically powerhouse.
The US is going down in flames as we speak.
and China, luckily for us, is "cursed" with a culture of isolation.

the biggest threat is unironically from South America but here we are talking within the next 60-100 years. Plenty of time to adapt bong.

>So then surely you should be choosing Scandinavia rather than Russia?
ofc. However you did not give me that option now did you. I would also chose Germancucks over Poland. Poland over France. And so on.

yes,but only free trade and only movement of goods, not labor

Do you glow in the dark? How do I land a gig like this; does it pay well?

>they have no intention of defending Europe's borders
A country has borders. Europe is a continent and not a country.

>and it's taking over the South China Sea.
who the fuck cares. China can have all the gook land they want. Why do you care for some yellow subhumans and their struggles?

>essentially turning Africa into a Chinese colony.
Thank god. Talk about taking one for the team. Lets hope they are twice as cruel as you western Euros or else it is going to bite them in the ass.

>How is Britain going to be a great nation in that context?
you are not. This is a time of survival for you. Just like China survived in the past and now get their chance. So will you too if you do not squander it all away in your pathetic attempts to keep a dead and bygone era alive.

>based lowlander

>glorious victory
>won't leave EU for at least 5 years and has to pay billions to Germoney
If that's what you guys consider a victory I'd hate to see what a defeat looks like.

>the biggest threat is unironically from South America but here we are talking within the next 60-100 years
at which point africa will be a super power.

russia is a major economic power, they have fucktonnes of resources for trade. and when sanctioned they take their goods elsewhere and relly on their military to prevent the rouble from falling much.

I don't see why the EU has to have an agricultural budget or infrastructure budget

Just let businesses and local governments delegate resources

The EU is some horrible 1970s relic

>the glass bear its NOT an economically powerhouse.
They're still a powerful military force, picture related.

>The US is going down in flames as we speak.
They've got problems sure, and maybe they will fragment at some point, but you can't presume that's going to happen overnight.

>and China, luckily for us, is "cursed" with a culture of isolation.
That's their source of strength though - they are fiercely nationalistic, they are fiercely proud of themselves and they hate foreigners. That's one of the things fuelling their rise.

>the biggest threat is unironically from South America but here we are talking within the next 60-100 years. Plenty of time to adapt bong.
No I don't think so. Their military strength is basically nothing. The Brazilian economy has been faltering for the last few years. The world economy faces no immediate danger of being controlled by Brazil, but it does face the prospect of being largely dictated by China (actually, it already IS largely dictated by China).

Defeat is when the helicopter doesn't make it off the helipad.

>Do you glow in the dark?
If that's supposed to be a reference to something, I don't get it

The EU is a union and yes it does have borders. You realise the EU has borders TODAY, right? You realise it has a border for customs and immigration purposes? You do know that right?

You don't care that the world economy is being run by China? You don't care when Chinese businesses buy up your assets? You don't care when the most prestigious brands and businesses of your country are now under Chinese ownership? You don't care about being screwed around like that? Why? Why do you want to be cucked by China? Why don't you want to fight back against that?

China colonising Africa will just mean they have MORE resources and therefore MORE wealth. So they can buy up MORE European businesses. And they can build MORE aircraft carriers to project their force across the world.

You literally want China to fuck your country in the arse don't you? Why?

Good observations. Russia has problems, sure, but they're still a very important power, and you make a good point about resources. Resources are literally the only thing that matters - resources ARE wealth, they are one and the same thing, and some people are too dumb to realise this.

What do you think will happen next then? What will succeed the EU in your view?

>What do you think will happen next then? What will succeed the EU in your view?

The EU is not wasteful enough to fail

It's just a constant drag

>The EU is a union and yes it does have borders.
then why write "Europe". Those two things are not the same in any way. One is a failed American project and the other is continent.

>You realise the EU has borders TODAY, right?
yes the E U has. Not Europe.

>You don't care that the world economy is being run by China?
not in the slightest. They seem to be less of annoying reactionaries than the fucking burger fags. All in all they cant really be worse than the absolute filth that run it today. So no, I cant say I care that much.

>Why don't you want to fight back against that?
oh we do it our own little ways. Its called protectionism and the EU hates it. Its when you do stuff like "you can own this danish brand without living in Denmark while also having a danish citizenship". Its a constant struggle with victories and defeats ofc.

>China colonising Africa will just mean they have MORE resources and therefore MORE wealth.
and? why would I care for the wealth of some yellow slant eyed gook?

>So they can buy up MORE European businesses.
I do not care about "European" business in the least mate. I care about danish business and those have been under constant siege by other Europeans for hundreds of years. Still here though cunt, still standing.

>You literally want China to fuck your country in the arse don't you?
no, but you sound like you want the Germans to fuck you over. Or maybe the new worlder scum?

you might be right about South America. Things haven't exactly gone their way lately.

Sure, that's what we signed up for, but it isn't.

Even the tariffs are too much. They currently have goods sitting in random docks just to impose tariffs before they are sent to the country of destination. It is a farce even without the other crap. That is also why 50+% of our goods come from the EU, not because they do, but because they have sat in an EU port en-route. baka.

ye i would have voted remain if it was purely a free trade area

Indeed, I think it's likely it will around, I just think it needs to have different leadership, because there are clearly lots of people across the whole of Europe who are severely pissed off with many things about the way Europe is run.

For instance, does anybody even know who the European People's Party are? EU "parties" don't knock on doors, they don't leaflet. How can it be a real democracy if nobody even knows what the parties stand for? They don't stand for anything, apart from their own salaries.

>EU is an American project
Hahaha what the fuck? Where did you get that idea from?
You realise it was founded by France, West Germany, Italy, and the Benelux countries, right?

How are you going to like it when all the Danish companies are owned by the Chinese, is that what you want? You want to see your entire country cucked by Chinamen? Why do you want that? Why are you so desperate for China to come and fuck your country until it's a yellow shithole? Why are you so desperate for the ching chong chinaman to come and inseminate your women? Are you a homosexual by any chance?

Alright but let me ask you this. I've got to say that Boris' vision of Brexit is a noble one. He wants to pull out of the single market and the customs union, and forge new trade deals around the world. A full proper Brexit to be honest.

But can Britain really be a world power again? Let's say the EU does remain intact, just without us. Then we're going to be competing with them, economically. As well as competing with China and the US.

I guess it could work to be honest, we're a strong country.

>You realise it was founded by France, West Germany, Italy, and the Benelux countries, right?
yes but with HEAVY American influence. More or less their way to ensure that Europe would remain peaceful. France, Germany and Italy was not exactly friends after the war and so it took some coercion from big daddy merica to bring it about.

>how are you going to like it when all the Danish companies are owned by the Chinese
you keep pulling this shit out of your ass. Why are not all danish companies owned by the burges right now? Or Germans? Russians? You are so full of shit with your non-arguments. Foreign takeover of companies have been a constant threat to Denmark for hundreds of years cunt. China trying to eat us is no different than Russia or the damn burgers. Or even you, UK.

>Why are you so desperate for the ching chong chinaman to come and inseminate your women?
nice argument matey.

>Are you a homosexual by any chance?
are you? Sure sound like one with all that butthurt.

No, of course not. NAFTA is a hellhole. The EUFTA would be too.

Every country should just trade on WTO terms - that is why we freaking have the WTO.

Germanistan is literally the only cancer Europe has
You know you're going to get Dresden'd again if you keep up your bullshit, right?

>W-we need to band together to compete with US and China
Independent countries can cooperate in times of need. Federalization is not the answer.

Yes. The EU should have become simply a FT zone.

You literally couldn't be more wrong, you don't know anything about the history of the ECSC do you? You realise it was the French that proposed its creation right?

Danish companies are going to get bought up by the Chinese mate, that's just how it is, especially if you're so much of a cuckold that you're not going to do anything about it.

That's just going to make the whole of Europe less powerful and less wealthy.

Good post.

We'd be more powerful as a unified power.

Maybe, maybe not. We can but do or die. Anything is better than becoming part of that communist mess. I believe we shall prevail, we have some great historical allies around the globe. If not, then so be it. We did our job and brought civility to large parts of the world. At the end of a sword or not, it is something we should be proud of.

youtube.com/embed/q0cOTDBQJSo

Whoops

it does. If they can't push regulations you are free to make your own bussiness and your own wealth, and they won't be able to do anything about it except for pure criminal acts they can get easily prosecuted for

The EU was never created to be a free trade area. Even if it could momentarily transform into one (or certain countries could, i.e. "two-speed EU"), you Brits must understand that the EU, as an institution that is still currently in development, is a key and vital part of the world order that /some/ are trying to bring about. The future of the EU is not a mere free trade area and that is something the average European citizen must understand. The EU may visibly take two steps back on whatever issue grates you (in this case, integration or "ever closer union"), but later on you will realise that those two steps back that they took were only so they could take three steps foward.