So the future is sealed

so the future is sealed

black is atleast as strong as god ki ss2 goku and he's still hiding his transformation


mai is going to get blackedx2

Everything is wrong in your post.
>so the future is sealed
Its not, they have Cell's time machine.
>black is atleast as strong as god ki ss2 goku and he's still hiding his transformation
He's not Goku, confirmed, and not a saiyan, cofirmed too, while he may have transformations, they are clearly not super saiyan related.

Red hair god is not a base form as Sup Forums thought, confirmed by the manga in the last chapter, its another transformation. Black is, indeed, weak, by current standards.

>everything is wrong

no it really isn't

>it's not, they have cell's time machine

that doesn't matter. the reason beerus and whis aren't openly helping is because they know black is right. future trunks is going to die if he fights black again head to head as shown in the previews.

>he's not goku
>literally GOKU BLACK
>goku says they look just alike
the only thing confirmed, by beerus, is that his ki is different than goku


>manga

lmaoing

don't kid yourself with outdated information

you'd have to be an idiot to think black is weak htw

WHIS confirms he is indeed quite powerful

>black is atleast as strong as god ki ss2 goku
No, he's as strong as SS2 goku. They're flip flopping on whether goku is near god power as base or not anymore (especially since Vegeta matches him), so unless his hair is blue or red, assume he's not using God Ki.

well that's just completely wrong

goku in the canon material(the anime) absorbs the red god ki and makes that his base, so he is already at the ki level of a god plus his ssj2 transformation multiplier, which goku blacked can match with without even transforming(and we know he's hiding it, he says he isn't using his full power his self and goku confirmed)

i don't have to "assume" anything because i actually understood basic explinations were as you see it as "flip flopping" because you can't get cues and think the non canon material(manga) isn't just that artists personal rendition of the plot, and we all know that person isn't toriyama

The problem user, is that Vegeta can match him despite never absorbing God Ki. And Cabba can match Vegeta despite not having god Ki at all, until Vegeta turns super saiyan blue. Coupled with Goku's spar with trunks, it's clear that despite what Beerus said, goku in Super is not at god level during his base or super saiyan forms. It's not even the first time shit Beerus said was retconned, the 6/10/15 comparison? That's been basically thrown out the window.

>the problem is that vegeta can match him

according to what? the manga? that shit is not canon

cabba matched vegeta because his base is lower. it's that simpke. vegeta is NOT as strong as goku. nothing has been retconned in the canon, you just can't read very well. nothing whis said has been retconned ever or even implied to be (the 6 10 15)

goku was holding back against trunks the whole time, trunks has never even achieved god form so there is no way he could beat goku, goku just let him be under the impression to gauge how well trunks would be fighting against goku blacked to use estimate what his and goku blacked power is around, since he already knows trunks couldn't beat him

in the end he learned nothing about the true perfection of his power, since the time ring started forcing his power back to the correct timeline

Does he have heart virus? Yes yes I know he took some shots to the gut, but they could be playing it off. No one has ever clutched their chest like that except Goku.

If Black is Goku's body possessed, then it can be infected.

>confirmed by the manga in the last chapter
Fuck off.

No, the anime, where Vegeta and Goku are training together, and when they fought against the purple jelly, and when they fought Freezer. It's pretty blatant that Goku and Vegeta are close to evenly matched unless Goku uses the Kaioken.

Goku was holding back by not turning into SS3 or higher. But his SS2 strength was greater than, but on the same tier, as that of trunks. Super has retconned many things and goku's god ki base is one of them.

>(the 6 10 15)
If the 6 10 15 isn't retconned, then goku is literally 4 times stronger than whis using Kaioken x10, Basic math, user.

it's possible he is suffering some type of drawback from having heart disease but i think it's just subtle baiting on toriyama's end to keep the summerfags guessing(i.e. see "black is goten)

>any of those things confirming they are "even"

goku confirms he still outranks vegetable(by far) with kaioken, plus vegetable never got the extra ki from being wished into super saiyajin goddo super saiyajin, he just trained into blue with whis's help. trunks is NOT anywhere close to goku and he's probably just barely stronger than gohan/ weakee than picollo. your headcannon =/= the real canon


which would still be wrong because you're using the wrong type of scale to measure obviously

and graceful too

Did you watch the last episodes? SSJ2 Goku and Trunks WERE about evenly matched than Goku transformed into SSJ3 and easily outperformed him. Balck right now is weak as shit compared to recent enemies like Hit, otherwise he would've stomped SSJ2 Goku.

>goku confirms he still outranks vegetable(by far) with kaioken
>With Kaioken
No fucking shit, it's 10 times his power level, ergo he's roughly 10 times stronger than Vegeta, because Vegeta is roughly as strong as Goku when both are in SSB.
>plus vegetable never got the extra ki from being wished into super saiyajin goddo super saiyajin
Which is exactly why Goku's base boost was retconned.
>trunks is NOT anywhere close to goku and he's probably just barely stronger than gohan/ weakee than picollo
He killed Dabura, which Gohan couldn't and Piccolo never would have even before he let himself go to waste. He's SS2 level, though certainly weaker than Goku.

>which would still be wrong because you're using the wrong type of scale to measure obviously
I don't think you understand how ratios work.

How did Vegeta's hair manage to maintain volume after Bulma went underwater in the ship?

he only went ssj3 to show off to trunks that he can still get stronger, like goku blacked since trunks said his(goku's) ssj2 was too weak to fight black like that

To everyone wondering, Super Saiyan Goku = Super Saiyan God Goku.

>Vegeta getting blacked by the Octopus was foreshadowing Goku Black fucking up Future Trunk's timeline
>Goku Black's real form confirmed to be some type of octopus creature

No, that was retconned.

He wouldn't have to transform at all if he was at god level, because if he had kept his god ki, then his SS2 would be many times stronger than Majin Buu and thus completely outclassing SS2 Trunks by a ridiculous amount. Hell, he could have gone to base form and still make trunks piss himself in fear.

Instead he went SS3, because he would not have gotten a really dramatic increase staying in SS2.

When this qt gonna show?

Season 2.

...

I hope black is just a goku that ingested one of cell's cells infecting his body like a parasite. Instead of sucking the androids, the more he fights the more perfect he becomes, and eventually moults out of goku's corpse.

>because vegeta is roughly the same

lolno

vegeta was btfo in what, 3 hits by hitto? goku took that in base form(INTERESTING) and took hundreds more before even using kaioken. vegeta is weaker, period.

>retconned
wrong


>dabura
>strong

nah

picollo is stronger than dabura now, so strong he could pierce vados planet barrier in the tournament(only something goku did) and would have killed frost(freeza) of he didn't cheat like a fagget

gohan has been off screen training with picollo so it's safe to assume he can atleast not be a completely frail bitch boy now

>i dont think you understand ratios

i dont think you understand english

according to whis, beerus is a castle, goku is a tree. wrap your pea brain around that for a second

no it was not

he transormed because it was a glorified humbling match, literally. goku and trunks didn't even straight up spar, he just tanked all of hits then finished him off politely. stop your headcanon

No, Vegeta jobbed. Goku was prepared since he knew what to expect with Hit. He stayed in base form due to awful writing, because to Toriyama it makes sense to take punches in a weaker form to gauge your opponent. The manga, which is based on toriyama's own notes, confirms Vegeta could have beaten Hit as SSB if he hadn't tired himself out earlier with Frost, Metalman and Cabba.

>wrong
Right. A lot of that fight was retconned. For instance, you'll notice Beerus is yelling and shit, he's clearly putting in some effort. but according to later episodes, Beerus was still holding back like crazy (because if he wasn't, then SSB Goku or SSB Kaioken Goku would be much stronger than both of them.)

>>dabura
>>strong
>nah
Dabura was as strong as Perfect Cell. Piccolo has not gotten there yet, and Gohan is weaker than he was during the Cell Games. Piccolo IS stronger than Namek's Freezer by a lot though.
>gohan has been off screen training with picollo so it's safe to assume he can atleast not be a completely frail bitch boy now

Lol.

>according to whis, beerus is a castle, goku is a tree.
Exactly you idiot, meaning the ratio was Retconned, because a tree is not 60% of a castle. Meaning Goku never made Beerus break a sweat when they fought, despite showing otherwise.

>he transormed because it was a glorified humbling match
He didn't have to transform to humble him. Hell, if he still was as strong as he was during the Beerus fight, he could have reverted to base form and still outclassed Trunk's SS2 by a huge amount. The fact that Trunks didn't explode into chunks when Goku went SS3 means he is not operating at God Level.

> confirms Vegeta could have beaten Hit as SSB if he hadn't tired himself out earlier with Frost, Metalman and Cabba.

I just realized how fucked that system of progression was.

When did everything get so complicated

When Krillin first got his neck snapped

>he just jobbed because muh bad writing
fuck off retard. "based on toriyama's notes" manga =/= the real canon of the anime

vegeta got hit a few times and lost, period, plus before vegeta even fought hit he went back and got some refreshments, further proving that "vegeta was le tired"eme to be absolute bullshit that isn't true to the canon material(the anime)

>yea huh it was

not it wasn't dumbass. beerus lied to make goku try harder, plain and simple, which has happened many tines now to make goku want to get stronger

>picollo hasn't gotten there yet
do you read? picollo is stronger than dabura now since he never stops training and is also toritamas favorite character, he is a tactical master; cell is weaker than them both


>meaning the ratio was retconned
that doesn't prove that you shiteater. nobody said it was a 60%. you literally made that up

>the fact that trunks didn't blow ibto chunks

ffs you autist he did it to guage black as well. fuck off with your illiteracy and bad math

When Toriyama forgot to take his medicine and wrote lots of stuff that contradicts past stuff.

It didn't. Shit just works however Toriyama wants them to work and people take it more seriously than they should.

when summerfags come to the board

Why couldnt they just get arale to karate chop black?

>implying she didn't already get blacked in the future

Why do some people gain an odd affection for certain Dragonballs, like Goku with the four starred one and Pilaf with the number he likes?

Goku like four because Grandpa Gohan kept it

Just look at them

Aesthetic af

Gtgoku even swallowed

goku could've one shot black if he just went ssb lmao.

though, that wouldn't make for a very good arc... goku had way more trouble with hit than he did with black, and he was using ssb against him.

He would of jusr copied his fighting style to find his weakness, basically what goku does, since he never was in danger of dying.

This is a fight vegeta would job because he would rush into it, just like with hit and almost like that rob

I haven't been keeping up with Super but whats this shit about Vegeta not having god ki?

How the hell did he train to Super Cyan? I thought that was just turning super saiyan while utilizing god ki.


I assumed since at the end of BotG he said next time he was getting the god powerup they just did it off screen between that and Resurrection F

Vegeta trained with whis but whis also trains beerus so basically the training is just that good

sssjb is still a god ki form, vegeta just never absorded god ki like goku did

It has always been like this, what was strong in one saga is fodder the next. Dragon Ball inflation of power is zimbabwe tier.
>King Piccolo
*Yajirobe without training at all is stronger than Tien
*Piccolo (old) is much stronger than Goku and Tien
*Piccolo (young) is stronger still
*Goku after drinking the Ultra Sacred Water is much stronger than Piccolo
*Popo considers Goku's power as trash
>23rd Budokai
*Goku with weights is stronger than Goku when he defeated King Piccolo but Tien is stronger
*Goku without weights and Piccolo are much stronger than everyone else
*If Kami, Tien and everyone else went all against a tired Piccolo at once they would still lose
>Saiyan Saga:
*Piccolo was the main villain of the previous arc and now he is complete fodder to Raditz.
*Saibaiman are close to Raditz in power but are literally fodder
*Goku after becoming many times stronger than Raditz is still not enough for Vegeta
>Frieza Saga
*Cui is as strong as Vegeta was on Earth yet he is destroyed easily by Vegeta
*Vegeta after defeating Zarbon is nothing in comparison to the Ginyu Force
*Gohan and Vegeta while fighting First Form Frieza are twice as strong as Ginyu yet they are much weaker than him.
*Piccolo is stronger than Gohan (and Ginyu) after training for 6 days with King Kai
*Goku becomes 33 times stronger after being healed uses kaioken times 20 and is still not enough
>Android Saga
*Frieza is easily destroyed by Trunks only to reveal that the androids are stronger than him
*Piccolo is stronger than SSJ Trunks before fusing with Kami
*SSJ Goku while only powering up to 50% of his power is stronger than Grade 3 Trunks
*Piccolo, SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Trunks in the Cell games are stronger than 50% SSJ Goku
*SSJ2 Gohan and Super Perfect Cell are much stronger than everyone else

>Buu Saga
*Goten and Trunks can turn SSJ easily and are stronger than 18
*Videl learns to fly long distances and to sense ki in a month when it took the human Z-Fighters 1 year training with Kami to do that.
*Yamu and Spopovich have auras while flying like Nappa does.
*Dabura is stronger than Super Perfect Cell and is easily defeated by Buu. SSJ2 Gohan and SSJ2 Majin Vegeta can't do anything either.
*SSJ Gotenks is stronger than SSJ3 Goku but Super Buu only plays with him
*Base Gotenks after the Time Chamber is stronger than SSJ Gotenks before after training for some weeks
*SSJ2 Gohan after training with the Z-Sword for a day is close in power to SSJ3 Goku
*Base Vegito is barely weaker than Gohan-Buu, SSJ Vegito is the strongest character in DBZ by miles.
>Super
*Beerus defeats everyone easily, they don't even try to use Super Vegito because he would be useless.
*Whis is even stronger than Beerus
*Tagoma is as strong as Mystic Gohan, an out of shape SSJ Gohan easily defeats the stronger Captain Ginyu
*Only to be defeated by Frieza in his First Form
*Golden Frieza is stronger than SSB after training 4 months
*Cabba doesn't even know what SSJ is and he is close in power to Goku and Vegeta
*Piccolo is not that weaker than base Goku when in RoF he was weaker than base Gohan
*Hit is stronger than SSBx10 Goku
*Beerus and Champa are still stronger than Hit
*Zenou is much stronger than Champa and Beerus

Master Korrin, Beerus and Whis are the only characters that have managed to be relevant power-wise for multiple arcs without becoming stronger.

>*Piccolo, SSJ Vegeta and SSJ Trunks in the Cell games are stronger than 50% SSJ Goku

explain

>people get stronger over time in a shounen anime

really?

In other shounen characters are not so easily surpassed. If DB was like other shounen Master Roshi would still be in the top ten of strongest characters

that's the thing, those other shounen are copying toriyama, the king, that's the difference between the greatest and the new kids

I prefer Toriyama's approach to make everyone far stronger than the previous arc over other shounen where a character reveals a hidden technique they had but didn't use in their previous fights even though they were losing.

i prefer the sol between everything

making it so lighthearted makes the "edgy" parts bearable but enjoyable too

i wonder why he didn't get to show up in otherworld when goku went

when is the last time goku mentions him?

who /hyped/ here?

Probably because Toriyama forgot about him. Like Lunch.

Gine a best. A BEST

wait what

BD ver

what arc

So Trunks SS2 is stronger than SSG?

RoF

are you sure those aren't just comparisons of the RoF movie with the DBS arc?

No

nah, DBS

When the fuck did the anime become more canon than the words of the creator of the series?

when the creator stopped giving a fuck

He is involved with the writing.

since it became the most hands on project for toriyama

the anime being miles ahead of the manga story wise isn't helping the manga out either

If Toriyama has involvement in the anime therefore making it canon, wouldn't his comments have some validity as well?

in part to the manga as well? sure

but blatamt retcon shit that didn't hapoen in the anime that came first at that is generally considered not canon since toyotarou is leading the manga. are we suppose to believe goku can't use kaioken anymore because he didn't in the manga? fuck no, because that is obviously that artists rendition of the fight, not toriyama

basically at this point it's(the manga) a spin of the real story for purposes like him building a name for hisself as well as making as much money as possible by reaching a broader audience(i.e. there's a ton of vegetafags who prefer the manga over the anime). to be fair, the manga is drawn well though and it is interesting

When?

>still weaker than beerus

Beerus is the final boss of Super, you should already know that.

i want a fusion arc for dbs so bad

>final arc is the universe tournament
>beerus partakes in it
>final match is him and Goku
>Goku finally wins
>Omni-King wants to fire Beerus and hire Goku
>Goku refuses and lets Beerus keep his job

>final tournament takes place
>all this whis/vados beerus/champa gods animated

this will be a great day for upcoming doujins

i still think think beerus/whis secretly want to blow up universe 7

They even teased it in some promotional art, the bastards.

never know, zeno-sama's tournament could allow for fusion techniques if they have 2-2 matches or something

>Gogeta becomes canon
>Gogeta becomes canonically the strongest hero character
HYBE

Gogeta will not be the strongest canon character...

>No, that was retconned.
Except it wasn't you fucking retard, it happens in Super.

Nah, see, she was too busy poking poop

>gogeta's sparkle magic becomes canon

idk how i feel about that

>Teasing Gogeta for a fucking instant noodle campaign

Damn it all.

I thought that toriyama said that the manga artist pretty much is drawing everything like the script and he added nothing of his own.

idk where you get that from but out of someones ass

It was an interview tho.

>Gogeta disintegrates BLACK with rainbows

source or gtfo

First volume of dragon ball super in the web version of V-jump.

Toriyama wants toyotaro to include his own ideas into the manga. He said it will be better that way.

including toriyamas ideas into the manga is hardly "adding nothing of his own"

He draws based on toriyama script and toriyama check every storyboard for every chapter and he says that he wants him to include is own ideas.

It's kind of fucking obvious that he is drawing everything like the script.

Don't be a retard.

>taking pictures of a screen

>hurr dur

no fucking source like i thought you dunce. try reading comprehension lessons

I fucking told you the source. Get and check it yourself fucking retard. Do you want me to spoonfeed you too?

Believe what ever you fucking want then.

>posts source with no link or image
>gets mad when doubted