SINGLE PAYER HEALTHCARE

Why not Sup Forums?

It is cheaper than Obamacare.

Other urls found in this thread:

stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT
oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/oecd-reviews-of-health-systems-mexico-2016_9789264230491-en
libertyhealthshare.org/
fee.org/resources/socialized-health-care-the-communist-dream-and-the-soviet-reality/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

because about 50% of americans are stupid as fuck and think healthcare can be handled by 'muh free markets'.. single payer is the only sane solution.

Pic related, plus the fact that it would increase the demand for healthcare without increasing the supply, thereby leading to higher costs.

>Why not Sup Forums?

Because it shifts the responsibility from the individual to the community and fucks up the prices even more.

most Sup Forums users don't even pay for their own insurance, i bet. i'm paying $400 a month for my wife and I and have a $1,500 deductible. I'd wager over 50% of that just goes for profit and billing.

umm, obamacare already does that. except instead of the money going to a public fund, most of the money is just profit for insurance companies.

>obamacare already does that

No you nigger it does the literal exact opposite of that.

Jesus Christ...

WHAT I FUCKING PAY FOR MY INSURANCE WOULD BE CHEAPER WITH SINGLE-PAYER!!!

Let me give you an example.

Local community gym
State of art facility
Great fitness classes
$5/ a month goes towards maintenance and paying employees (most who get paid better than gold's because their isn't an owner pinching every last penny).

Gold's Gym
Franchise
Not much better than my community gym
$60 a month (most is profit, some for maintenance and paying employees)

Single-payer is my local community gym, obamacare and muh private market is Gold's Gym... and guess what, the price of the gym has not gone up since it opened. price going up during demand only happens in the private market, NOT UNDER SINGLE PAYER.

Nice false equivalence, now here are the actual reasons healthcare is so expensive around here.

the lack of cost controls is because of the lobbying of the insurance market. you can see the charts yourself. we have been paying more for healthcare than any other country in the world, so your "muh free market" arguments don't mean shit when there is nothing to show for it. our healthcare system sucks. there is not one country in the world saying "wow, lets follows the united state's example when it comes to healthcare. i'd love to make a go fund me or hold steak plate sales on the weekend to pay for my surgery."

how is it a false equivalency? both facilites provide the same service. one is locally funded with no shareholders or people profiting, one is privately owned. the facilities are ran almost exactly the same.

with multi-payer you can have both. if people want to buy private insurance because they don't think the country's single-payer is up to par or want a Cadillac plan they can buy one on the free market.

Go back and actually read it this time.
>how is it a false equivalency?
Because it's a lot easier for the quality of healthcare to vary in quality, and the quality is much more related to cost. You could fly down to Mexico and get a vasectomy for a tenth of the price, but would you?

funny you mention mexico because yes i would. i live on the border. my uncle went to the doctor for stomach pain here in the US. he waited for over 5 hours until he was attended. they finally attended him and gave him an x-ray. according to the doctors, he had nothing. he left and had a $7k bill...

anyways, his stomach continued hurting so he decided to go across to border to a hospital there. he was attended in less than 30 minutes. got an x-ray showing stones. had them removed in less than an hour. payed about $500... i'm wondering how the american doctors didn't see the fucking stones and these beaners did???

most people where i live go to mexico to get their braces, buy medicine, etc. so yeah, i would go. they have multi-payer so if you don't want to go to a mid-tier government hospital you can go to a fancier one that's more expensive . i usually do that and it's better than all the times i've had to wait in the american ER for hours. oh yeah, and the american doctors never give me any medicine because they're afraid of lawsuits.

and btw, I still go to mexico despite having my obmacare blueshield insurance that i was forced to pay for because it's still better. it's still cheaper because of my deductible.

>Ha! My personal anecdote contradicts your researched conclusion, therefore you are wrong.

Even if that's true, your uncle has some kinda nuts getting surgery in Mexico. Couldn't necessarily say the same for you if you had a vasectomy down there, considering they have the worst rated healthcare in OECD by several metrics. See for yourself:

>stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=HEALTH_STAT

Even with Obamacare, it isn't cheaper.

By the way...

>oecd-ilibrary.org/social-issues-migration-health/oecd-reviews-of-health-systems-mexico-2016_9789264230491-en

>Likewise, out-of-pocket spending has stuck at nearly 50% of total health spending - the highest in the OECD - and implies that individuals feel the need to visit private clinic despite having health insurance.

I don't want to have shit ass healthcare like the rest of the world. Nuff said, now fuck off ya fucking nigger

obamacare isn't single-payer. most of what people pay for obamacare is just profit for insurance companies.

I never claimed that Obamacare was single payer. I said "Even with Obamacare, it [single payer] isn't cheaper," along with an image that shows your monthly rate for insurance, available to anyone who wants to sign up while they are healthy. Even pre-existing conditions are covered after 3 years. "Unshared amount," is 500 bucks for single, $1000 for a couple, and $1500 for family.

>Hey guise, lets create a monopoly. What could possibly go wrong?

Niggers don't work, thus pay nothing for their healthcare or they work dead end jobs, thus pay the bare minimum, when a statistics are made, they will show niggers get no healthcare out of the ER, thus the system implemented promotes institutionalized racism and furthers white privilege, just ignore the asians and jews while you are at it.

Right? Imagine the DMV, only put them in charge of your health. Sounds great, right?

or why don't they just make freely available the cures for all diseases/cancers so we all can be healthy?

Everyone knows cures are found all the time and than the media isn't allowed to talk about them.

Healthcare could be really inexpensive... but they don't want it to be. They want us to suffer and die.

The ER is overburdened because they have to accept medicaid as well as people with no ability to pay (while the doctors still remain liable for any fuckups made while treating these people who have no intention of paying).

Cut ER statistics and VA hospitals out of our statistics, and I bet our shit skyrockets up the list.

what is multi-payer?

monopoly also implies a private corporation is profiting? who the fuck is profiting? you realize there isn't a fucking CEO or shareholders of single or multi-payer systems in other countries?

you realize that we are currently forced to pay private companies for a service they don't even provide???

You realize that cost is different than price, right? You realize that bureaucrats have more power than CEOs, right? You realize that you're a stupid faggot, right?

>monopoly also implies a private corporation is profiting?
>monopolies are OK if it's the gov
Nigger, over here the nhs is running out of money because it's state run shit. They don't have enough ambulances to actually help people that need it.
>oh you're having a heart attack sir? Ambulance eta 40 min

nigger, here people go bankrupt and have to lose their homes because of hospital bills. they have to set up go fund me accounts for pay for a hip replacement. or sometimes they just die. i believe about 20k-40k die each year because they lack healthcare. they don't count those people in the statistics claiming the US has the best healthcare quality though. they only count the people who can afford it.

like i said, i support multi-payer. i shouldn't been more clear when i posted.

Only idiots that aren't willing to pay for insurance, which they would be forced to pay for if single payer went through. What you're saying is that the US government should be the auto insurance industry because most people wind up in the driver's seat at least once in their lives, and some people don't carry auto insurance.

You're free to go without, and you're free to face the consequence of that decision.

You have failed to mention how much it cost your apartment complex to build and stock your gym, nor have you accounted for the land lords expenses due to employee wages and maintenance costs. Also most medical supplies are single use only and they require a constant stream of new supplies to replace what was used. I used to work for one of the largest medical distribution companies in the US and that stuff ain't cheap.
So let's make this comparison fair shall we, let's pretend that after you finish a gnarly workout, assisted by a personal trainer that is in debt thanks to the required 6+ years at personal trainer school to get his degree in workology, and now your land lord has to replace every single piece of equipment you used. Not only that but those dumbells must meet very high quality standard required for use in a gym. Even worse for your land lord is the fact that qualified personal trainers are in short supply thus inflating the wage of said personal trainer.
How does a single payer plan account for those costs without reducing quality and accessibility to the gym? How much do ya think your rent will increase?

>they only count the people who can afford it.
Then get that nice cheap pre Obama care insurance

1) I don't live in an apartment complex.

It is a city community gym for anyone in my city to use.

I miss my $60 premium, my current $50 one is nice but I won't be able to be on my mother's plan in a couple months. I really don't look forward to paying to 400+ bucks a month for shitty coverage, it's what forced me back on my mothers plan a couple years ago.

See: Cheapest plans I could find. Make sure to get on while you're healthy. They won't cover pre-existing conditions for 3 years.

i can't get "cheap" obamacare if i make over 70k

the more you make, the more it costs you. it is a progressive income tax. obamacare can take up to 10% of your income. it would be cheaper if we had mutli-payer. not to mention, with obamacare it is a private insurance so you have to pay a deductible (usually well over $1000) before you can even get care for a serious injury.

Yeah, so the only community gyms I've ever encountered were in apartment complexes but that's beside the point. Swap out apartment for city and rent for local tax if that makes feel better. Now answer my questions faggot

oh yeah, also, our insurance companies didn't cover pre-existing conditions up until obamacare (that I still hate for other reasons). because obvs, they can't make profit from people with cancer. but somehow people think the free market will somehow cover people who cost them money.

>progressive income tax.
Not sure that's right, but I said cheap pre Obama care insurance

your question is bullshit because it implies that i live in an apartment complex which i don't. because 1) an apartment complex is for the owners to make a profit.

the whole point of my community gym is that there is no owner or shareholders making a profit hence, the price of membership is very low.

Liberty ain't in my state exchange, in fact I don't think even half the insurance companies are still I back when I first went on it.

They didn't cover them because it's not "insurance" when you're already sick. Just like you can't take out a homeowners insurance policy after your house catches on fire.

>our insurance companies didn't cover pre-existing conditions up until obamacare
Not sure that's right. They might not offer you coverage if you had a condition, but I don't think they could just drop you if it turns out you had some disease.

before i was married i payed $90 a month for myself.

You won't find Liberty on any exchange, but I'm nearly positive they are available for all 50 states.

libertyhealthshare.org/

>the whole point of my community gym is that there is no owner or shareholders making a profit hence, the price of membership is very low.
That's not why. Places like planet fitness and other fake gyms can offer 10/month memberships because they are targeting a big group of people that won't come to the gym that often and won't bother to cancel because lol it's only 10 bucks. If everyone who was a member started turning up regularly, it would be so crowded it wouldn't be usable. Same shit with a "community gym", nobody is doing it all for free.

That's pretty good

Because those who don't deserve it gets it too. Millennial NEET scum who don't pay taxes and do nothing to benefit the country, gibs-seeking niggers who are like Millennials but are parasitic no matter what generation, Jews who are like Millennials and niggers combined but are worse because despite being rich they avoid paying as much tax as possible AND demand gibs such as subsidies all because "muh Holocaust" and other Jewish lies.

90% of American posters here are on their parent's plans and have never thought about paying for their own health insurance. The other 10% have gladly swallowed Republican lies cause it "le triggers the libcucks". Single payer will happen eventually, just like legal pot, we just have to be patient.

get off your bum ass and get a job, and you wont have to beg for help from the government you pos.

So no one holds the lease for the land? No one manages the expenses? Who pays the employees? Where in my first post did I mention profit? Quit being a bitch and answer the fucking questions.
Is what I would say if I thought you had an answer but ya don't. If ya can't answer simple questions like mine why do you believe you the answer for something as complicated as healthcare?

Just remove the (((middleman)))

>and then the US health care system will become a steaming pile of shit just like Europe!
What fun

Niggers and spics would drain the system because they don't contribute enough back into the tax system.

This is not a question asked to be a troll.

Can an american please explain to me why the notion of an American style NHS is met with such revulsion? I've never understood it. I get there are some out there who love MUH FREE MARKET, and I understand that, but it's strange that its seen as almost tyrannical.

Oh shit! I thought the name was familiar, I hear about them on the radio all the god damn time. Those prices ain't too shabby, thank god for Christians

The short answer is basically why the fuck should I pay for anyone's Healthcare but mine?

That's about right.

Having to pay $400+ every month as a retainer for medical care for your family is absolutely criminal.

>single-payer
>efficiency

lol no, insurance company profit margins are total shit

I AM PAYING NIGGER. I AM PAYING A PRIVATE COMPANY FOR A SERVICE IT DOESN'T EVEN PROVIDE: HEALTHCARE!

No you're paying a company to pay a company in case you need health care

So which group do I fit into? I paid for myself when I turned 18. Obama's plan hiked my premium to the point it was cheaper paying out of pocket for my meds ($90 cash, no insurance vs $360 premium and $20 copay, on niggercare) then got on my ma's because it only cost $50 a month to add me to the plan which I pay back each month.

The group which ruins his little delusion

>profit margins are total shit
Humana's stock has risen 278% since the (((affordable care act)))

Hmmmm.

just open up the market. interstate insurances would be a great start.

also make strong anti-monopoly laws.

Always that one stupid communist flag user.

Because it's shit, even compared to niggercare its shit

There's literally nothing wrong with single-payer health care. If your country is in good shape, it will handle it without problems.

burgers should have passed universal healthcare a long time ago and deal with leeching shitskin welfare queens some other way

health and capitalism (especially when you're forced to buy a product by the government) doesn't mix well as human life is not a regular commodity

Wtf I love paying for other people's health care now

Capitalism is too ingrained into our day to day activities and we're afraid of change and trusting our govt.

We think we have a choice. If Humana does us wrong, we can really show them (whew!) and switch to Aetna.

I wish I could express to other countries just how quickly my paycheck disappears before it hits my checking account.

You trust the government? I'm a fed employee, why the fuck would you trust with your healthcare?

In our beautifull social welfare state, my money is already gone before getting my paycheck.

t. pay 50%-60% taxes on wages

>afraid of change and trusting our govt.

Lol nobody has the means to pay for single payer healthcare you Alinskyite stooge
This is mass enslavement at its finest
Taxfunded healthcare for all will cost 35 trillion at best over the next 10 years and send the quality of medical care down the flush
Also because the whole system will be communist, prices will be entirely regulated. Say good bye to ambitious doctors, scientists and researchers. Hello bureaucracy and stagnation.

Aside from my monthly insurance fees and 'remgeld' money you have to pay when you visit the doctor, my healthcare is totally free :DDD

*we're afraid of change and we're afraid to trust our govt.

Mines at 43% if you want to factor in healthcare. More if you count dental insurance, vision insurance, life insurance, disability insurance, and retirement since our social security is a myth and pensions are no more.

After taxes and paying bills, only 10% of my paycheck is expendable income.

>we're afraid of change and we're afraid to trust our govt.
Because change is 100% good all the time right? You retard

government doesn't run anything with any efficiency. Look at the VA system.

if we implemented single payer today, how long would it take for people to start bitching that white people are getting better healthcare and an affirmative action program was suggested?

You are aware stock price isn't profit margin, right? It's a 25% larger company and and the S&P has gone up like 175% in the same period. Sub 3% margin almost the whole time. Hell, that's not even good for an insurance company.

14.88 seconds

You're retarded if you can't detect the sarcasm.

who's going to pay for it? and also the government fucks up anything it touches.

Mine doesn't include dental, vision and life insurance. You'll have to take those from a private company

>we're afraid of change and we're afraid to trust our govt.
Our govt could fuck up a wet dream and you want to give full authority over our healthcare like we're farm animals? What the fuck is wrong with you?

No white doctors allowed, only gay, black, female trannies need apply. Free universal and diverse healthcare for all, all white men must pay a privilege fee.
Single payer would become a nightmare within days.

Well the free market for healthcare is great.

A lot of competition, and bigger prices than in any Western country

also don't get me started on our VAT which is 21% and the taxes we pay on gasoline (for example per liter gas we pay €0.7 taxes)

Gym membership is the same as health insurance. You have to be 18 to post here

fee.org/resources/socialized-health-care-the-communist-dream-and-the-soviet-reality/

Why did I read that entire garbage? It's just you're average AnCap 'muh free markets'. All it presents is a simple solution to a complex problem,

America hasn't had a free market for healthcare in almost a century.

I always cringe when I see americans trying to prove how good the government would be at organizing things. Thinking social democracy is some form of utopia.
Americans who think this are uneducated and uniformed.

I give you 0/5 stars for reading comprehension.

I'd rather it be a transaction between the hospital and the individual with charities to help the impoverished.

You seem to be willfully ignoring the rest of the question, so to reiterate:

How do you think your local tax/membership fees would change when the fitness center has to rebuy equipment you use (toss out the dumbells, re-belt the treadmill, buy a new punching bag), and the fitness helper has to go to college for 7 years and be aggressively certified with a GPA/MCAT score that puts him/her in the top 20% of the country, just to be an exercise tech?

Because we have a Veteran Affairs hospital program and its an absolute shitshow that makes our health care industry seem like a 2nd world country despite us being one of the most advanced nations in the history of the world.

We have a lot of problems doing big nation-wide services. Dont expect much competence from us unless it involves killing people via DoD (usually), the Department of Transportation (mostly), the Department of Interior, or the Department of Energy.

3.3% on wages .... KEK
Try 15% ... its like that in Germany at least