Sup Forums lately complains a lot about Isekai series and mmorpg-like series

But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Also, how do you create a proper fantasy setting that is likeable when you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it.

Other urls found in this thread:

novelupdates.com/series/kyoukai-senjou-no-horizon/
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

It's not my job to come up with a better fantasy story.

it'd be nice if they just created a world

not have to structure it on mmo mechanics
they way they do it is just so blatant too

Something with actual world building like Slayers and a spunky female lead who gathers a competent party.

No.
Fuck off, that's his problem as a man of one's craft. Half-assing it just because of one's shitty clientele is a disservice to the craft.

To be fair though, being a writer means sucking the editor's cock.

How about making a world people can be interested in and make it to have deep lore or something. Instead of, copy pasted shit

Acid trip?
Though I never tried any - I had a few vivid dreams that can be used as a base for world building.
The Snow world and The Pit world what would call them.

More Overlord type shows would be great, It was completely different and actually had likable characters.

An orc falls in love with an elf

Then do it.

>you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it
Once you start thinking about your readers, you are disqualified as an author.

>draw a fantasy setting
>call it an mmo
It's getting old.
Not like any of these shit LNs are actually using the setting to do anything new or interesting.

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Sure can, why not? Cant you?

Well, honestly with most japanese fantasy works I don't think is a problem of the setting itself, generic settings even copy paste ones are fine, like you know, any campaign can be fun even in generic D&D setting.

Problem is most of japanese works seems to forget that FIRST, the adventurers should go to find adventures and not sit in a town and wait for the adventures to come to them and SECOND, there has to be some kind of quest/purpose/journey objective. but most works seems to dely this as much as possible or simply don't even bother and go for random villains one after another then again not even going after them but waiting them to come.

Yeah, it's called spice and Wolf.

I always thought the issue with most Isekai were the characters, not so much the setting. They tend to be insufferable pricks and at the beginning they're oh so wronged or something. But then everything pretty much just snowballs their way and they pretty much have an easy as fuck route. The characters never improve personality wise and at the end of it all, you've still got the same insufferable punk.

Also, forgot to mention than most part of the time is more pseudoparody than simply generic.

To be honest, I'm just happy we're getting more westernised medieval fantasy stuff. It used to be really rare.

What kind of medieval fantasy stuff is there besides western?

More focus on the fantastical elements. Have the characters immersed in the world instead of the world immersed in the characters.

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Take any Isekai story, remove all "appraisal" skill, and game mechanic (skill/lv.).

Rokka had a sort of Western-Mesoamerican style to it. There's also the Middle-Eastern stuff from Arslan.

>illustrations by houtengeki

Unable to confess, he is gifted with by a deus ex machina with the elf’s magic mirror

Medieval means middle ages, middle ages means Europe, Europe means Western.

Ergo anything medieval cannot be eastern.

Take notes from Blame.

You're correct. And also pretty nitpicky.

> You can't complain if you can't make write a better story

The deus ex machina is literally so, and the orc leaves the elf for bloodthirsty adventure!

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?
I'm pretty sure any non-autist could.

Also, the "Why don't you then?" argument is really stupid. Some people actually have legitimate careers they pursue or are interested in other things. You're like one of those autists on youtube who gets angry at people giving constructive criticism to musicians and reply with "How about you play it then."

A lot of older fantasy LNs and animu from nipland were based off D&D campaigns like Record of Lodoss War, and Slayers was just a parody of then. Now you just replace D&D with MMOs, and you have modern fantasy animu. And you also have modern parodies of them like Ixion Saga DT and Kono Suba.

Things really haven't changed too much. You're just a faggot with nostalgia goggles.

Isekai is more a problem in the LN industry where there's a shit ton of them, they are quite uniform in content and poorly constructed. Many of them are literally like copying your plot and characters from a handful of Wikipedia articles.

Isekai isn't an inherent problem, it's just a subset of "journey" style narratives. The recent anime isekai have all focused on different things and so don't suffer from the problems the LN industry is having.

That's not really the same thing at all.

I don't remember a craze of anime/LN with actual D&D rules/mechanics shoved into them, even if the settings were inspired by it.

I always thought the problem with isekai is that they tend to turn into harems or just be harems in disguise

MMO anime are a lot more casual with dropping meta concepts, though. That is what grates people the most.

With Lodoss, the D&D rules were in place but they weren't openly discussed by the characters (who probably didn't even know them). Nobody commented on "his AC is -8!" or "my THAC0 is too low!" like you hear in MMO anime where they discuss mechanics like a min/maxer.

Of course.
They're basically built around self-insertion and wish fulfillment, as any modern LN is.

It's easier to make a faggot MC 'special' in a video game setting.

You know it's just occurred to me that the first thing I read with a "trapped in another world with a bullshit ability" thing was actually an MMO. Mabinogi specifically.

People brought in from elsewhere into the world have slight incompatibilities with portions of reality, including the inability to be fully, among other things . It got brought up a good couple of times in the story.

It's been done. Sup Forums called it convoluted shit and dropped it.

I don't understand. Isekai is 99% actual fantasy, but with a main character taken from our world. Literally all you would need to do is take any of the characterization you gave to all the side characters and turn one into a MC. Likewise, it has the exact same issue of making the setting likable. You're acting like they're two wholly different genres when the reality is just that isekai is pure escapism for people who feel like they live dull lives but would totally become a different and amazing person if they were teleported to another world with that likable setting. It's also a lazy way to provide exposition about that setting, since the protagonist is the epitome of fish out of water. It'd be more interesting if they'd cover the hardships of being trapped in such a foreign land, but they're usually so convenient because otherwise it wouldn't be wish fulfillment. Not that I'm saying there's anything inherently wrong with that, but the veneer is awfully thin when it comes to this genre.

Make an isekai story except the alternate world is even more technologically advanced and much more rigid than we are, so we're the "fantasy" world to the other side.

Examples?

I hope he isn't referring to Grimgar. Shitty characters and plot with pretty backgrounds.
>characters end up in fantasy world
>they dont seem to remember where they came from
>for no reason whatsoever they decide to take on the dangerous role of adventuring instead of working in a shop or skilled labor
>bullshit drama ensues

According to LN it is because the local humans are racists towards otherworlders so noone wants to hire them .
Which is retarted for me.

>Also, how do you create a proper fantasy setting that is likeable when you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it.
Why wouldn't your readers give a shit about it?
You need examples of good fantasy settings? Tales of Mu. Mother of Learning. Lord of the Rings. Gate! Thus the jsdf fought there.
Lore there is given in small portions as characters go do their own things.

>gate
>good

>every alien invading anime ever.

>you can't complain if you can't do better

I've seen this crappy argument so many times, and almost always it's to defend shit that even the fan knows stinks. It's like these people have never heard of food critics, movie reviwers, etc

Yeah even then it is retarded. Why are they going out "adventuring" getting yourselves killed with no real goal? It wasn't like they were tasked with saving the world or killing the demon king. They could just start their own commune where they farm, fish, and hunt. I mean shit, they were able to acquire a pretty nice house even when they weren't getting any money from low level adventuring. It wouldn't have been so bad if every character wasn't flat and boring.

>Gate! Thus the jsdf fought there.
Are you serious? This is not a good example.
>modern military absolutely demolishes knights, even at hand to hand combat
>fantasy lords are just cocky and stupid
>YAMATO DAMASHII

What do you mean, everyone knows that the best thing to do with people you hate is to give them weapons and organize them into a fighting force.

Yeah, sorry. Momentarily forgot American history.

What are you referring to?

Ask Sup Forums , they will be happy to give you a full explanation. This is not the right thread.

I like isekai. It's a pretty good frame to make a lot of stories completely different from each other. Re:zero, overlord, log horizon, sao, are all "isekai" and you cant say they are the same thing at all.

LNs are amazing.
They're a collection of the worst writers pandering to the dumbest audience possible.

What will the next LN 'genre' be?

I guess he is referring to the Iran Contra affair. But this isn't the place to shit post about politics please.

Except Slayers and Record of Lodoss War are GOOD, and most isekai are BAD

I loved Slayers and Slayers Next, but even I have to admit that the slapstick humor it relied on got very tiring. Slayers Try, Revolution, and Evolution were not good.

Pic related was shit and it was the same kind of anime as the 2 you mentioned .
It is only about the writer's skills.

Every anime about alien invasions are only about both sides killing each other. An isekai would consist of aliens getting introduced to skydiving, skinny dipping in polar water, getting drunk married at a casino, zoophillia, and other assorted strange things that humans do.

Does it need to be Isekai? I'd just use people from that world instead of bringing betas from Japan.

I'd create a world with long lost 19-century like technology thanks to a world wide war between two races, half buried cities, a mysterious wasteland v that separated them for centuries and just now people have started to make trade roads between them. The MC is the son of a merchant in his first long trip with his father, attacked by bandits and sold to a rich landlord, he serves as his butler, learns to fight, the Lord starts to care for him like a son and then the king kills the Lord for his influence was getting larger and the kingdom feed up with the king, so the MC leads a rebellion for vengeance with the help of mysterious powers from the people across the wasteland.

Add the Lord's daughter as main love interest, childhood friend who became strong while searching for the MC and becomes his right hand during the rebellion, cute loli looking witch from the wasteland, lizard people here and there, the King's lewd maid doing assassinations, etc.

Fun idea, but it wouldn't appeal to self-insert fags and 'born in the wrong generation' fags.

No sales.

fund it

It is basically gunotaku without guns.

That's the one written by Nasu, Urobutcher, and a few others, right?

I completely forgot it existed, how was it?

The anime was shit comparable to SAO.

>I'd create a world with long lost 19-century like technology thanks to a world wide war between two races, half buried cities, a mysterious wasteland
Sora no woto?

But archaic fantasy worlds is only one direction of "wrong generation". The other would be being born too early to experience magic-level of tech.

There's two perspectives that can be taken from this kind of setting and that's from both the lonely salarymen and aliens / not-humans.

S2 never. I have to create my own.

Those old anime dont have people talking about dice rolls, inventories, and levelling up

>how do you create a proper fantasy setting that is likeable when you know your readers doesn't give a shit about it.
I would go full autistic with it a la Kawakami.

Oh right, because I can't criticize Zaza for fucking up the penalty shoot either, since I'm not a professional football player.

It's really just a sign of shitty writers who use the most boring premise to get money. Though I can imagine how hard it would be to make an interesting premise, while still making money off of it.

This problem is hardly a japanese one anyway, it happends in western literature too.

I was referring to Horizon on the Middle of Nowhere.

Fate.

>Sup Forums lately complains a lot about Isekai
Most of Sup Forums didn't even know what Narou was. It was mostly the so called 'reverse shilling'.

It would be better if they just did regular fantasy instead of shoving in self insert MCs and using MMO mechanics as a crutch in order to explain the entire world.

You know, it has just stricken me that Sup Forums complaining about isekai in LNs is akin to SWJs complaining about straight white men in video games.

They have quite a few successful fantasy titles, from the past, to use for reference. Instead we get "NEET, loser and/or self- insert gets sent to another world."

The few that do try something different never sell well. Sadly, me appreciating them just isnt enough.

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story
just do an anime in wh fb setting about genki female bright wizard as she travels with state trooper company within the army of some elector count.

she will be in a reverse-harem slice of life at the beginning, but the story will actually take the dark turn as characters are exposed to the reality of infantry combat and medieval cruelty of the old world. mc will mature and come to understand how the bounds of civilization and sigmarite religion allow upper classman like her lead a cheerful life in the cruel and dark world she lives in and she will retire to the altdorf college in the end, meanwhile most of her trooper friends are dead, a few veterans who survived the series are too desensitized by combat to really keep up the friendship they developed in the beginning of the series. you know, like actual combat veterans in our world. in the last episode she meets a scarred version of comical relief inexperienced guy from the beginning, who was in love with her, of the story who's now a sergeant, and in a slicey way they will ponder at how they can't really relate anymore to each other while drinking wine.

the story is a kind of "growing up" shonen thing done correctly and honestly.

You mean typemoon or anime?

>novelupdates.com/series/kyoukai-senjou-no-horizon/
>Ecchi, Shounen
>Tits on poster
Sure, I'm already convinced user

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?
Creating stories isn't hard

Not him, but at least give Horizon a try. It's no masterpiece, but is a good example of what we could have in relation to fantasy/adventure.

Sure?

You should try it. I give it 90% you drop it before you actually know what's it like though considering you're judging it based on broad categories on a catalogue site.

Seeing the sales for Chaika peter out was miserable. At least we are getting more Bahumat.

Nice reverse psychology, faggot.
I'd try it but it doesn't seem to be updated that ofter after vol4.

The only good part about it was the worldbuidling. The characters are all bad, the plot is barely there, and it tries so hard to be edgy, and miserably falls flat on its face that it's almost amusing. Don't bother with it at all.

>But could you come with a better actual fantasy story?

Yes. Quit being lazy shits, Japan.

MMO themed Fantasy shows are garbage shortcuts. You have no idea how many times I got excited about a new fantasy themed anime, only for it to be about fucking MMO's.

What happened to stuff like Lodoss War or Escaflowne? Even Seven Deadly Sins is breddy gud since it's making an original world and ideas.

FUCK mmo anime.

Terrible, like "one if the worst things I watched in my life" tier of bad.

Characters, premise and setting were OK, in fact it was pretty solid in those aspects but had serious production issues, it was stupidly rushed (like characters rescuing a baby and next scene they were already fighting bad guy without never knowing what happened with the baby they carried), and the budget was extremly low

Fantasy is shit in the first place

Crown Prince, deciding it'd be better to explore the world and have fun than become king, fakes illness and has his younger, mildly capable brother take over the position as he goes out on a long escapade. As is, travelling through his kingdom and solving problems makes him start caring for his subjects. Story ends when a few years later, former crown prince becomes caring for the people and decides to come back home to rule them, his travels making him aware of the issuess in the kingdom.
Setting wise, magic is fairly scarce amongst humans, arcane spellcasters being fairly rare and mostly secluded to take the most out of their potential, and divine power wise only a few out of hundreds who take religious orders ever display any magic capabilities, and most of those tend to be minor magic anyways.

I don't mind isekai. If nothing else, it makes the first minutes more natural. The MC knows nothing, so the introductions are real. We don't need lines like "That was a nice move, sasuga Juria Kuroschwarz, student council president of the magic battle academy, and princess of the country Yamaberg". I mean just look at how the character and world introductions turned out in Alderamin.

That said, if they do isekai, they should stick with it. The setting should be used, so don't pull a Grimgar.

I like isekai/fantasy. What I don't like is the self-inserting wish fulfillment power fantasy bullshit aka Mushoku Tensei.

>seven deadly sins
As much as i like Pride it is fucking shit .

It was good before they tried introducing power levels.

>deciding it'd be better to explore the world and have fun than become king
>mildly capable brother take over the position
>former crown prince becomes caring for the people and decides to come back home to rule them

What an asshole prince, he didn't change as much as he thinks, he was selfish leaving the post to his brother and now he is being selfish he deserves the throne because he learned things about his people.

I hope younger brother tells him "fuck you" and fight him for the throne.

Fucking fund it.

Easy user. Popular shonen manga constantly does this.Dragon Ball, One Piece, Naruto, and Bleach all manage to make a believable world with quite a success. Fantasy doesn't need to be medieval europe with elf and magic and shit.

That's a problem with LN writting you know not that you can't make if flow naturally even without Isekai. LN tend to much to vomit everything soon so they can go with doing nothing happening through the rest of the series.

Although I agree Isekai itself is not the problem, but what it comes later, I remember Isekai like Scaflowne, 12 kingdoms, Isekai Seikishi or El Hazard and the Isekai part wasn't annoying at all.

BTW, I'm also triggered by the habit of calling everyone for their enire names "Well done, Lux Arcadia" "Sasuga, Hisarai Hayato".

Animate Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and A2. There you go, good isekai anime.