Who was in the wrong here?

Who was in the wrong here?

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Homura

Homura is always wrong.

Homura is always a tsundere bitch around Mami

Is Homura EVER right?

Flat is justice.

Homura for not thinking things through enough, and realising that Bebe probably isn't the witch that set up the labyrinth. The only time Homura did something wrong.

Both.

Urobuchi for making the sequel

Homura is a fucking retard. She has the knowledge of countless timeloops knowing how the other characters should react to any circumstance.

The only thing she ever did right was incidentally multiplying Madoka's wishing power with her wish.

This is now officially a HomuMado thread, post best couple share your love

One of the best love stories ever told.

That said, Mami is probably dumber than any character not named Homura.

Madoka is the only non-retarded meguca. Shame she's also the blandest.

Why does that mean she's a retard? She couldn't save Madoka even after that many times because the system was set against her favor.

She never got to a point where she could actually realize that fact since she kept making so many incompetent fuck-ups that it was still feasible to blame herself instead of fate making it impossible until Madoka had enough wishing power.

If she realized that fact, it would mean she'd lose hope and turn into a witch. That's why she had no other choice but to blindly keep rewinding.

Yeah, but my whole point is that her own stupidity saved her.

HOMURA DID NOTHING WRONG.

In terms of not being a dumbass:

Madoka > Kyoko > Sayaka > Mami > Homura

Behead those who insult Homura.

Nah, I think thar Sayaka and even Mami are more of a dumbass than Homura

You mean the other way around, right?
Dumbasses from worst to best
Sayaka>Madoka>Kyouko>Mami>Homura.

Sayaka was a literal moralfag.
Madoka was naive.
Kyouko had the right idea, but she still fucked up where it counted.
Mami was the most experienced of them all, but she was too self-assured to listen to Homu
Homura did nothing wrong.

Madoka was able to outsmart Kyubey twice, tho

So did Homura.

Kyubey.

There is no way Sallaka is not the bakaest among them.

Kyubey.

>Μadoka
>outsmart a paper bag
Because her naive no-boundaries wish happened to be powerful enough to bend spacetime over and fuck it doesn't mean there was any thought behind it at all. All she asked for was "no more witches".

NRA

But user, Kyubey's keikaku would allow them to collect more energy to fight off entropy. Think of the future generations on Earth and elsewhere versus some teenage girls wanting to go to valhalla after their precocious death.

You already know who was in the right the entire time. Search your heart you know it's the truth.

They were ALL naive, but Madoka was the only one smart enough to be cynical with the whole "Careful what you wish for" thing, and ultimately made the wish that fixed everyone's shit.

Sayaka showed she wasn't quite so stupid in the Rebellion movie, so I give her credit for that. If we're only talking about the original series though, she's probably the 2nd dumbest.

Kyouko isn't really smart nor stupid.

Mami is a dumb.

Homura had the greatest advantage of obtaining of knowledge of any of them with her wish, and she still routinely fucks up making her the stupidest.

Nagisa. She should have revealed her true form and given some more honest info to Homura.

But let's step back and look at the bigger picture.

Kyubey is the one responsible for trapping Homura.
Madoka ultimately abandoned Homura as a mentally unstable walking temporal anomaly. It was an accident, and Madoka intended to save Homura, but instead caused her suffering.
Sayaka, similar to Nagisa, withheld information and presented herself in a threatening manner instead of cooperating.
Kyoko actually did nothing wrong in this case; she had no involvement.
Mami can legitimately claim self defense in this case; Homura instigated with gunfire.
Homura did have a reasonable line of thinking-- barriers are created by witches, so she went after the witch in sight-- but she didn't consider the possibility that there could be other witches. However, in her mind, it would seem very suspicious that a witch would be cooperating with magical girls.

Ultimately, there are multiple levels of fault in this scenario.

Homura. Kyubey and his species was using reasoning to protect everyone.

>and she still routinely fucks up

That does not make her stupid, that means she is incompetent, which she really is.

>go through close to 100 timeloops
>on what turns out would be the the last one manage to always be late wherever she is needed, and nothing that she tries to warn them against goes her way
>only manage to get the others suspicious of her because reasons

Are cattle in the wrong for escaping the farm, leaving the farmer to starve?

>She has the knowledge of countless timeloops knowing how the other characters should react to any circumstance
Problem is, knowing how they react doesn't mean she can change how they react. Mami will never trust her over Kyubey; Sayaka will always make a contract and turn into a witch; Madoka will always end up becoming a magical girl by Walpurgisnacht.

>Sayaka showed she wasn't quite so stupid in the Rebellion movie
How about freaking out Homura by appearing as a witch and talking in riddles? Sure, she didn't have to divulge the whole truth, but she could have at least said that Nagisa was not a threat and that they both were sent by the Law of Cycles to investigate the witch, or at least warned about Kyubey.

Bro are you serious? There was clearly thought behind that, that shit wasn't a coincidence. Asking to do it with her own hands ensured that she would be immunized against witching out herself.
And in Rebellion she came up with a plan that would keep working even when she lost her memories. Madoka: 2, QBs: 0

Incompetence and stupidity are pretty much the same thing user.

When you say people were suspicious of her because "Reasons" I hope you're not implying that it was bad writing. They had every reason to be suspicious of her. Watching from the audience's point of view the first time, she definitely comes off as a very suspicious character.

Nope, because at the end of the day it is about survival. Homura wanted humanity to survive, and kyubey used humanity as a sacrifice, while using naivety to do it. But, in the end she did it for madoka, as we saw when she became madoka became god, the world was saved anyhow since she reconstructed everything. So, was it not just selfishness to do it anyway?

opps accidentally added she became in there. Sorry.

There wouldn't be any future generations of earth if the planet got blown up by Super-Gretchen like QB wanted
Fuck QB

Selfishness isn't inherently bad

>Mami will never trust her over Kyubey
I find it incredibly difficult to believe that there's literally nothing she could ever do to convince Mami that Kyubey is not her friend.

>Sayaka will always make a contract and turn into a witch
Again, she surely had options. Sayaka always turns in to a which because Homura is more focused on Madoka than Sayaka.

Fact is, she just wasn't smart enough to find a way to push fate to have to resort to complete bullshit to insure that those things still happened.

I'm not your bro, buddy.
And nothing in the series ever indicated Madoka was anything but a scared girl with an eleventh-hour superpower.

You can't honestly think the ending was nothing but a pointless coincidence. This whole scene was about how he knew what the consequences would be, and accepted them. Pal.

>Bebe
The entire movie makes more sense if you get rid of Bebe and have Homura attacking QB instead.

No it doesn't.

Besides showing her the truth-- which means letting Sayaka die-- which also means Mami will lose her shit and try to pull murder suicide. Would you, under any circumstance, trust a complete stranger who shows up out of nowhere telling you your best friend is using you?

No, Sayaka always turns into a witch because of her stubborn nature and absolutist view on morality. Sayaka is literally to thick-skulled to see the truth of the situation and be saved.

You mean, besides the fact that her uncanny magical potential was stated multiple times starting at like episode 2?

>made the wish that fixed everyone's shit.
HAHAHA, her wish fixed NOTHING in the end. Homura had to fix Madoka's own wish to take Incubators out of the picture.

>Problem is, knowing how they react doesn't mean she can change how they react
You do realize that after HUNDREDS of timeloops, Homura became incredibly efficient at manipulating everyone into a complex sequence of events that stopped the suicidally altruistic Madoka from becoming a magical girl, right?

>Homura became incredibly efficient at manipulating everyone into a complex sequence of events that stopped the suicidally altruistic Madoka from becoming a magical girl, right?
Uh clearly not since she continually failed to do that

>No it doesn't.
How does it not? Homura should have been more suspicious of QB than anyone, as he is the one thing she trusts the least. Why would she even suspect a witch? Witches don't do shit like that.

Mami but Homura is also always wrong by default

>Why would she even suspect a witch?
Because she knows she's in a witch's barrier. She was even correct about the cause, she just suspected the wrong witch.

>she continually failed to do that
[citation needed]
I think it's pretty apparent from the look we saw that she's gotten good at stopping Madoka from becoming a magical girl. Her only, final obstacle was beating walpurgis.

>You do realize that after HUNDREDS of timeloops, Homura became incredibly efficient at manipulating everyone into a complex sequence of events that stopped the suicidally altruistic Madoka from becoming a magical girl, right?

It's less than one hundred, and unless you mean to refer to the end of Rebellion where she's a reality-warping demon, Madoka made a wish in every timeline.

She didn't stop Madoka from becoming a magical girl in a single timeline that we saw. What the hell are you talking about?

>Because she knows she's in a witch's barrier.
But the witch's behavior was completely un-witch like. It is simply more natural for her to blame QB and her chasing Bebe scene unnecessarily makes Homura out to be a villain. It's better if you remove Bebe and have her chasing QB.

Madoka > Mami > Kyoko > Sayaka > Homura

Fixed that for you.

And every time she failed to stop Walprugis, Madoka became a magical girl to stop it herself so she couldn't have been very good if she let Madoka become a magical girl nearly 100 times.

>It's less than one hundred
Bullshit. You do not learn to set up a complex chain of explosions in "less than a hundred" loops. So [citation needed] or you're full of shit.

>Madoka made a wish in every timeline.
This increasingly becomes more and more towards the end of the loop. As you see the loops go on, this is evident. In the end, Homura becomes 100% capable of stopping Madoka from making her wish up till the night of the final battle.All she need do is beat Walpurgis, but she's simply not powerful enough.

>Madoka outsmarted Kyubey twice
>Literally died 100 times for this to happen
>Only able to because of Homo

Honestly, the appeal of the series is that ALL the megucas are just stupid naive little girls at heart who are placed in an incredible convoluted scenario way above what anybody their age should ever be able to deal with, and thus as hard as they try to pretend like they're adults, their little girl flaws still leak out in some way or another.

>she couldn't have been very good if she let Madoka become a magical girl nearly 100 times.
How fucking obtuse. My original comment was at how good Homura has become at manipulating others and your latest "revelation" does nothing to disprove that, and only regurgitates what I've already stated. Her final obstacle was one of combat, not social.

>You do not learn to set up a complex chain of explosions in "less than a hundred" loops.
What? What are you basing this on? This seems like an arbitrary number.

>Homura
>Social engineering
user, I love Homu, but her being a socially awkward spaz is a feature, not a defect.

>[citation needed]
Not them, but you're a retard.

wiki.puella-magi.net/Nitro+_Q&A_Panels_at_Animagic_2013
>Q: How many timelines did Homura go through?
>A: Approaching 100.

There's no direct connection between being in a witch barrier and QB, so it's more logical to approach the witch angle first.

>What are you basing this on?
Having experienced actual combat that never goes the way you expect no matter how much experience you have. Only with the flawless execution of thousands of attempts could she possibly manipulate Walpurgis in such a way. Possibly fewer if you are willing to concede that Homura is a tactical genius. Either way, I've won this argument.

>her being a socially awkward spaz
She was at first, but is she at all like that in the main arc? She's pretty non-spazzy having spent years trying to stop Madoka from making a wish.

>wiki.puella-magi.net/Nitro+_Q&A_Panels_at_Animagic_2013
That's not an in-universe source, so it's non-cannon. It's little more than fan-theory.

Nigga Homura didn't manipulate anyone, you're making this up out of whole cloth. Everything we see her do in the anime timeline is fighting fires.
QB is trying to approach Madoka? Attack him.
Madoka is about to get eaten by Charlotte? Show up at the last minute to defeat Charlotte.
Madoka is about to make a wish to stop Sayaka and Kyouko from fighting? Show up at the last minute and knock out Sayaka.
Madoka is about to make a wish to stop Sayaka from witching? Show up at the last minute and shoot QB.

The closest she has to a "plan" is to team up with Kyouko to take down Walpurgis, and she even fucks that up because Kyouko cares more about Sayaka. Homura couldn't "manipulate" her way out of a paper bag.

>it's more logical to approach the witch angle first.
I agree to an extent, which is why my original comment has us removing Bebe from the movie altogether. If anything, Homura should have suspected both of them. And assuming her memories were only partially recovered, she'd remember QB a lot better, having had WAY more interaction with him. I suppose one could argue that her memories of QB were more thoroughly altered by the incubators...

>Only with the flawless execution of thousands of attempts could she possibly manipulate Walpurgis in such a way.
What the actual fuck are you talking about? She set up a gorillion explosives in an attempt to overwhelm Walpurgis with sheer force, and it failed because Walpurgis has a billion hit points.

She was incredibly spazzy in the main arc if not more so than early on.

She completely lacked the ability to communicate with the other girls on an emotional level, and opted instead for a roundabout method of pulling strings behind the scene. Had she tried to appear more open and friendly to the other characters and prodded at their emotional vulnerabilities, she would have been able to dictate their actions far more efficiently.

Did you not watch Rebellion? It was practically a 2 hour showcase of Homura's autism and how she based everything she knew about the people around her on a single month period of time and based on her own personal failings to properly communicate and understand others. She thought Kyouko being happy was fucking weird despite that being closer to her actual character when she's not being edgy from grief, she thought Sayaka was completely incompetent based on her only just becoming a magical girl for less than a month and was surprised when she could actually display some competency when she was actually used to being a magical girl, she thought Mami could never handle learning the truth because she was unable to explain it to the group properly once and never tried again yet Bebe managed to explain to her the situation and acquire her cooperation just fine, and finally she took a Madoka who had no knowledge of anything and took her word as the word of the Madoka who had become omnipresent despite what she said never once conflicted with what she had said in episode 12.

She's not some master manipulator, she's some homely girl who has spent a lot of tine in hospitals and can't properly communicate as a result and fell on love with the first person who was nice to her to the point she threw away her life and spent years repeating the same month trying to save them after only knowing them less than a month and relied heavily on being a one trick pony that would never let her accomplish anything her goal as the one thing she had going for her was ineffective against the one thing she needed to stop to accomplish her goal.

>fighting fires.
I completely agree. She's like an animal doing whatever works. But the thing to remember here is she's done this A LOT.
>Madoka is about to make a wish to stop Sayaka and Kyouko from fighting
How does Homura know this? Because she's seen it time and time again. She's saved Mami in the past! The fact that she doesn't cold-heartedly kill Mami in Rebellion is indication that she cares about the rest of the girls, to a degree. So she could have saved Mami at any time, after all, Homura KNOWS that Mami is going to die. So why doesn't she save her? Because doing so always causes Madoka to contract before Walgurpris, that's why. So Homura lets Mami die, every time, to stop Madoka from wishing. It's social engineering by trial-and-error; something only she can do due to her time looping.

>She completely lacked the ability to communicate with the other girls
This.

>I don't know how to tell you what I really feel.
>Because...I'm not even living in the same time as you!
>I'm sorry. I must sound crazy, right? I must be creeping you out.
>To you, I'm just some transfer student you met a month ago.
>But to me...
>To me, you are...
>The more I repeat all this, the further apart in time we drift from one another. Our feelings also drift further apart, and my words don't reach you anymore.
>The truth is, I think I lost myself a long time ago.

Homura literally is incapable of connecting to people, and she knows it.

>How does Homura know this?
Because she's stalking Madoka and knows how the girl thinks

>So she could have saved Mami at any time
No she couldn't have, she was fuck-deep in ribbons. Don't try to tell me it was all part of her intricate plan to get herself tied up. This is fanfiction-tier.

>It's little more than fan-theory.
It's the guy who wrote the damn series, what are you on about "fan theory"? That's what your assumption she went through hundreds of timelines is. Given a "fan theory" from some dumbass on an anonymous imageboard who thinks some autistic girl was some social networking mastermind when she never talked to fucking anyone and constantly fucked up every time she tried, such as making an enemy out of Mami and putting Madoka in danger as a result and letting Kyouko get killed when she knew she needed her against Walprugis, and the creator of the series who probably knows a little more about what he originally uploaded intended than a retard basing his assumption on how she was able to use explosives, I'll take the "fan theory" over the one who would know what he was talking about. Especially given you have no evidence from the show to support your bullshit either.

>What the actual fuck are you talking about?
Did you even watch the last battle? The complexity of it? It's all planned out. She has everything set up DAYS ahead of time to make one flawless execution. Each section of the battle would take hundreds of practice attempts. (Unless she's a tactical genius, which I will happily concede should you make that assertion.

>dictate their actions far more efficiently.
Impossible. The final outcome of this loop was exactly what she wanted, sans being able to kill waltershot. Everything went according to plan except that last part she just cannot get right.

>She's not some master manipulator
see the below comment
>It's social engineering by trial-and-error
I never intended to imply that Homura was some master of communicating with people. As you can tell, neither am I.

>Homura becomes 100% capable of stopping Madoka from making her wish up till the night of the final battle
But she can only do that through shock value (having someone die and showing the secrets of being a magical girl) and shooting Kyubey.

>actual combat
There's nothing terribly complex about her series of explosions. She just timestops, unloads AT weapons, blankets the area with mortars, and then uses SSMs to shove Walpurgisnacht into a building full of explosions. Also magic is involved, so it there's a lot more leeway than in actual combat.

>She's pretty non-spazzy
She isn't. She can't socialize worth a damn. The only thing she can do is emphasize Madoka's fear to forestall her from becoming a magical girl.

> It's little more than fan-theory
If you want to equate the statement of the writer himself with fan theory, then sure.

>Because she's stalking Madoka and knows how the girl thinks
As the other guy is fond of saying, she knows fuck-all about how others think. She knows this through trial-and-error.

>This is fanfiction-tier.
Dude, seriously? What the fuck do you think EVERY DECENT DISCUSSION THREAD IS?! Unless a thread is "pozt ur waifu!" it's all theory and conjecture. Seriously, GTFO Sup Forums if you're going to dismiss what others theorize as mere fanfiction. She could have STOMPED Mami at any time. The only reason she didn't in the movie was because a strand of hair, something Mami wouldn't have known to do in the anime.

>It's the guy who wrote the damn series
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Death_of_the_Author [mic drop]

I wish they'd show that more in the anime though. Watching it gives the impression that Homura only went through, what was it, 4 loops? Homura's character is a lot more interesting once you know she went through about 100 loops.

As I pointed out in my post, she clearly showed she had misconceptions about the characters given her character biases and narrow scope of experience. She may have spent a long time with them, but she still only repeated a single month in which she was barely considered an acquaintance by most of the girls and in a concrete set of circumstances. Once that month was over and the girls were acting differently after getting to know her and each other better and becoming more comfortable with each other and their abilities, she had no idea what the fuck was going on. She doesn't know the girls nearly as well as you imply and it's made most evident in Rebellion.

>Each section of the battle would take hundreds of practice attempts.
This is you making shit up. It would have taken lots of tries to get to that point, yes, but you're exaggerating how many. And like the guy above me said, she has magic to help. She can probably aim the missiles in whichever direction she needs to rather than needing to setup the perfect confluence of events to get Walmart in the right position. Note the purple glow, like when she was driving the truck with magic.

>[mic drop]
You clearly don't belong here.

Mami a best!

>But she can only do that through shock value
So? I'd certainly incorporate shock-value at the right moments to accomplish a goal.

>There's nothing terribly complex about her series of explosions.
The final destination is a stadium full of explosives. Combat is more complicated than you're giving credit for.

>emphasize Madoka's fear
Yup. She does that pretty well.

>statement of the writer himself
Literally give 0 fucks about authors. If he makes another movie and Homura says there were X-time loops, then fine. But that makes her a tactical genius, then. And if she's had so few loops, that also rather makes her good at not making Madoka turn into a witch, which is problematic because everyone says she's not a natural at manipulating others. If, in under 100 loops, she gets good enough at manipulating events to the point where Madoka stops contracting before the night of Walpurgis, then she's actually incredibly socially competent.

>she knows fuck-all about how others think
No. This is the one thing she absolutely knows, because she learned it in the first timeline. Madoka is always, ALWAYS willing to sacrifice herself for the sake of others. This is a big part of why Homura fell for her in the first place. She wouldn't even have to go through all this if it weren't for that part of Madoka's personality.

>What the fuck do you think EVERY DECENT DISCUSSION THREAD IS?!
It being a discussion thread doesn't exempt your theories from being stupid.
She fucked up in episode 3. She tried to stop Mami from fighting Charlotte because she knew it was dangerous, but didn't take into account Mami's paranoia and got tied up. If she wanted to let Mami die the whole time, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to just not approach her at all and let her die on her own, wouldn't it? Then she would have had more freedom to intervene how she wanted afterwards rather than being stuck in ribbons.
You're proposing this entire scenario was some kind of absurd Rube Goldberg machine of social engineering, which is in no way implied by anything in the series. That's why I say it's fanfiction-tier.

>[mic drop]

>it's all theory and conjecture
Theories and conjectures are have degrees of support based on what is presented in canon. You're saying she purposefully presented herself antagonistically towards Mami so that Mami would get herself killed? You do realize that if Homura had the capacity to appear friendly towards the group, she would have been more able to effectively convince Madoka to not accept the contract? But she can't because she's socially inept and no one has any reason to believe her, since her story is fishy as fuck.

>The_Death_of_the_Author
This does not mean you have free reign to completely misconstrue the material.

>She can't socialize worth a damn.
She did socialize pretty well in the first timelines.
But she did abandon this approach because no matter how honest she was, the other girls wouldn't believe her. It's clearly shown in episode 10.

The cold, badass approached proved more effective as Homu was able to postpone Madoka's transformation until walpurgis night.

>Impossible. The final outcome of this loop was exactly what she wanted, sans being able to kill waltershot. Everything went according to plan except that last part she just cannot get right.

Yes, you obviously have problems understanding basic human communication if this is how you interpret what went down.

Saving Madoka from making a wish until the Walfjshfiwgsjk shows up literally means nothing unless she can also keep all the other girls alive as well. She already knows she can't fight the Wekfhsjhfsk alone. She needs the other girls to help her fight it.

If you're plan is to plant a bomb, and then blow up a bomb, and you fuck up just one of those two things, then claiming "Everything went according to plan except the fact that I forgot to take the bomb out of my house", than you can't say ANYTHING went according to plan.

>She could have STOMPED Mami at any time. The only reason she didn't in the movie was because a strand of hair, something Mami wouldn't have known to do in the anime.
Mami would probably beat Homura 8 out of 10 times. Mami was a great tactician, she ran around able to kill witches and fimilairs single handedly for a long time and learned how to make flintlock rifles that she can form dozens of in seconds. Hell, she even learned how to make a tank. She's also much more conditioned for actual combat than Homura who has little experience actually having to fight something that fights back outside of getting her shit kicked around by Walprugis for an hour or so a month.

Both, but only because Kyubey is a cunt.
>Homura recognizes shit is wrong
>Conducts an experiment
>Finds out it's as fucked as she assumed
>Time-stops the world and grabs Bebe for questioning
>Bebe adamantly denies everything
>Mami basically white-knights for Bebe because MUH LONELINESS
>Turns out Homura was right anyways
>But Mami never questions Bebe on the matter (as far as we know)
It's not a simple black and white "he said, she said" thing, but actually requires a mediator to resolve. The issue is the only "mediator" available was batting for Team Madoka while the other two were batting for their own teams.

SHAFT-brand missiles

>She doesn't know the girls nearly as well as you imply
When did I ever imply she knows them at all? I said she got to the point that she did through trial-and-error. You don't need to know anyone at all do do that. She did know what would happen inside of those loops pretty well, but that's from sheer experience, not intuition. As you stated, once she's removed from those loops, she has no more experience to call upon, and her intuition is lousy.

>it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to just not approach her at all and let her die on her own,
No, this does not work because it doesn't get Madoka to trust her at all. Homura might not know why, but she knows she has to make a half-assed attempt to stop Mami, if not just to save Madoka after Mami dies. Had Homura not been right there, and Madoka knows she's there, madoka would have contracted right there on-the-spot.

>I didn't watch the series: the post
Pretty sure they showed Homura joining up with the team multiple times. Taking that into consideration, and then noting Homura had done her time-travel schtick about a hundred times (at least), it actually becomes a substantially-higher number than Mami.
>Mami was a great tactician, she ran around able to kill witches and fimilairs single handedly for a long time
And then she lost her head when confronted by Bebe.
> Homura who has little experience actually having to fight something that fights back outside of getting her shit kicked around by Walprugis for an hour or so a month.
Pretty sure in a number of the timelines, the team got their shit pushed in collectively before Homura decided to attempt to one-shot it.

>Sayaka showed she wasn't quite so stupid in the Rebellion movie

>never tells Kyoko beforehand about their happy times together with everyone being something like a dream that would come to an end, leaving her to discover about it by herself as Kyubey and Sallaka infodump each other as they get ready to fight Homulily
>sits on her ass along with Nagisa until the entire fake Mitakihara city begins to fall apart
>following that, also fails to prevent the mayhem of the Homulily fight from happening in the first place, and all of it due to Homura trying to die in a misguided approach to protect Madoka from QB that turns out had never been needed in the first place
>has to engage in a fight with said witch to restrain her because of previous mistakes, and her little protégée Madoka is the one who ends up getting them all out of the isolaton field despite her (and Nagisa's) mission's stated goal having been of acting as a safeguard of the Goddesses powers until the time came to whisk Homura away with them
>asks devil Homura if she would destroy the new universe they were in when said new universe is the only one to date that contains a Madoka that is alive and not in imminent danger, which she has gotta know has for a long time been Homura's reason of being, her motive for having fought this far and even for still being alive at all really (as in, she ended up escaping death to live now as the devil, all for the sake of doing this)

Rebellion Sayaka not only is dumb for not taking the correct actions and also for asking dumb questions, she also comes across as an inconsiderate cunt. Fuck her.

>no one has any reason to believe her, since her story is fishy as fuck.
I'd say this plays a large role on her not being nice. We've seen her, in previous timelines, tell the others, and they didn't believe the cute, innocent girl. Obviously being nice gets her nowhere, so she stopped being nice.

>completely misconstrue the material.
I'm the only one presenting evidence based on the material, though o.o

I can honestly see Homura having a giant board at home, and she's written out all these complex scenarios to remind herself what to do next. The entire anime is one giant pot for her, based on sheer reactionary actions she's taken in the past that either succeeded or failed.

inb4 comment on o.o

>Rebellion Sayaka not only is dumb for not taking the correct actions and also for asking dumb questions, she also comes across as an inconsiderate cunt. Fuck her.
Probably one of the worst offenders, but the movie does attempt to rationalize her shit with "isn't this better?" Personally, the whole Kyubey kidnaps Homura and Madoka tries to save her to prevent Witch's was stupid-as-fuck. Couldn't Madoka press "undo" on that entire thing?

Mami died because she was overconfident and got blind-sighted. Her fighting prowess in a straight up one on one is probably the best of the girls.

She was clearly surprised when this happened, dipshit, it doesn't serve any purpose to get herself tied up and out of the action. What if Mami had been defeated but not killed, and then Charlotte went and ate Madoka while Homura was still tied up? What if Madoka had been convinced to make a wish before or during the fight? She can't possibly account for all these scenarios. And it's inane to propose that Homura intentionally let Mami die in such a specific way as to get Madoka to trust her more, when nothing in the entire series suggests she's willing or able to do that kind of manipulation.