Petain

always see thread about hiler , Mussolini etc but never about vichy France

was it the right décisions that petain took ? why did Hitler ended up annexing vichy France ?
is the hate toward petain justified ?
also was it the last based french leader ?

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en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill,_Hitler_and_the_Unnecessary_War
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bump of curiosity

tell us more OP

French people made an effort to bury this history after the war. I've never found a real French person who knows anything about it.

Another fun thing that was buried after WW2 is the fact that Russia invaded Poland too, at the same time that Germany did...and at the end of the war, Poland (the country that Britain and France had gone to war to save) was given to Russia, the country that invaded it...

i think a lot of peoples that read about ww2 learn easly that poland got invaded by the ussr , that is not that hidden

Frogs don't like talking about him because it ruins their vision of their own WWII history

If youre interested in the subject I suggest reading Celine's later works. His last three books were about the time he spent on the run from allied forces, some of which he stayed at Sigmaringen castle with Petain and all the other Vichy high staff.

>was it the right décisions that petain took ?
it was either that or wasting the lives of millions more french people.
why did Hitler ended up annexing vichy France ?
because Pétain was working for France not for Germany, Hitler was afraid Pétain would support an uprising.
>is the hate toward petain justified ?
no
>also was it the last based french leader ?
stop using niggerspeak

that shall be an interresting reading , thanks user

Yes, but nobody ever points out that Britain and France did not go to war with Russia despite doing exactly the same thing at exactly the same time that Germany did. They didn't even make any fuss about it. It's as if it never happened at all...even though Poland was occupied for like 40 years...

Nice post baste frenchie

you don't understand the context of communism in continental Europe, and especially France.
The communist party was the largest political party in France from the 20's to 1981.

that is a question i see pop up from time to time but yes rarely mentionned , my best guess is that britain and France feared that if they did so russia would attack them with germany

he did waht he could to rebuild france after the mess socialists and the germans created in 39
he failed but i doubt it was possible to do better

>I've never found a real French person who knows anything about it.

you are full of shit or simply a fucking liar
lurk more nu faggot

No clue what that has to do with my post

OK so what do you know?

Absolutely nothing it seems, all you can do is sputter insults like a nervous kid

if hilter had let vichy France alone how good do you think it would have been ? at least until 1944 when they probably would have been invaded by the allies.

>why did Hitler ended up annexing vichy France ?
to prevent an ally invasion of south of france from north africa
DUH

still happened in 44

>insults
americans really cant into banter
soft skined burger

A war with the USSR would have meant a civil war in France, that's why De Gaulle appeased the USSR.
There was already a massive amount of communist collaboration with the nazis during the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact in France and the Algerian war was partially caused by French communists with the Kremlin hand behind it all.

it did but they couldnt let americans and english do what they want
it was less defended than normandy or italy though

That the best burrying we have in france after the "chernobyle no-pass wall" mad by EDF

>"dont worry peoples the cloud literraly stopped right at the frontier , western europe not touched at all , what do you mean thats not how radiation work ? haha stop saying stupid stuff Citizen"

had the same thing here

he was really old i doubt he could have last more longer
laval would have probably take his place

If anyone wants to read stuff about vichy france and petain, read a book called "our vichy gamble" it is a book about our embassy from france, maintaining relations with the vichy state, even after Germany declared war on the US.
Its interesting to note how the US and Canada maintained forwign relations out of a country that rose from the fall of france. Petain is seen as a controversial figure because he is seen as a collaborator on the level of laval or darlan. However it is because of him, the Vichy government was able to maintain at least some level of seperation from the Germans, even when they demanded concessions from them. The Vichy government had denied the Germans use of a naval base at Dakar despite constant pressure, they had also denied them use of some of their fleet, and had always kept close watch to scuttle the fleet in-case the Germans made a run for it. One of Petains only concessions was the use of rail lines and ports in syria, so the Germans could fund the pro-German uprising in iraq with weapons and supplies.
To sum up Petain as the head of state of Vichy France, you could see it as, anti-british because of the feeling of abandonment and betrayal after the fall of france, neutral towards Germany because of the rather lenient terms they were granted, and open to America to help them stay out of the war despite constant German pressure to aid the war effort from the Neutral zone.

Speak english frog, you're on my part of the internet

That makes more sense than what you said before. Interesting angle. I will think about this.

Also note that, even in Vichy France, pierre laval was immensely unpopular with the Vichy leadership. He was almost regarded as a traitor, and having been the head of state for nearly half anywar after the fall of France, he was temoved by Petain because of his negotiations with the Germans that aligned Vichy France closer to their war effort.

The Idea in the Vichy Government was that the Germans had won the war, and that Vichy France was to exist untill the end to take their place in the new order of Europe. Ironically, the French believed once the Germans won the war, their managment of this New Order would fall to the way side, and they would invite the French state to take an administrative role in managing the continent along side Germany.

Pétain is used as a scapegoat and shit on by the leftists (despite him being brought to power by socialists who were the ones that collaborated the most with the nazis).

I personnally don't hate him, he was a good leader during WW1 and cared a lot about the lives of french soldiers on the front (something other generals did not), for WW2 he didn't really had much choice either since the brits basically abandoned us and in consequence he saved the lives of hundreds of thousands trapped french soldiers who would have been shelled to death otherwise.

But he has nothing to do with figures like Hitler or Mussolini, he was just an old man that served his country well and was called back in desesperate times.
The chief of the far-right in the 30s was a monarchist called Charles Maurras, he predicted everything that happened 10 years before and he was ferociously anti-german, he would have crushed Hitler in the Rhineland in 36 before even giving him a chance to build the Wehrmacht.

Pic related, the most brilliant political writer in France that ever existed, would have made a formidable PM, no doubt about that.

suck your cock burger

interresting , always thought that vichy France was really nationalistic and not socialist as you say

That's a good summary, lots of modern french historians depict him as a dummy that was played by Hitler like a puppet but truth is that he was more like an old fox and sure as hell more intelligent that the retards and commie traitors we had in the parliament during the 30s.

The french parisian bourgoisie has been nothing but incompetent traitors since they rule the country anyway, only time we were served well was when we had a monarch assisted by a little circle of brilliant aristocrats like Richelieu, Colbert or Talleyrand, everytime you place a jew or a bourgeois it turns to utter shit because those people are naturally coward and soft when things get hard.

He was definitly not socialist, but he was a nationalist in the traditional sens , unlike the nazis and fascist

>collaborating with enemies
>based
this is bait

going back to a simpler and healthier life

>it was either that or wasting the lives of millions more french people.
you're useless soldiers, so of course it would be a waste, you bunch of pussies.

>you're useless soldiers
The French were not "useless" soldiers, you stupid cunt.

kys coward

They didn't attack Germany either. They declared war, but, except few minor skirmishes on French border, nothing happened for another year, when Germans marched into France.

French soldiers fought harder than the brits in pretty much any and all conflicts, even during WW2 your retarded "glorious retreat" was only possible because the French soldiers sacrificed themselves/

>say the country that fled at dunkirk when the germans started to stomp them leaving a shitton of material behind

only because the french governement was stupidly throwing money into the Maginot line instead of putting it into tanks etc , the french army literraly had the best tanks at during the battle of France , remember a story about a b1-bis holding up a position against several german tanks

>since the brits basically abandoned us

Bullshit. You capitulated to the Germans ( Fun Fact: the French army invented the phrase 'hands up don't shoot). We had a homeland of our own to defend. We were then part of the forces that gave many lives to liberate the reat of Europe. You're welcome.

>implying the brits wouldnt have capitulated and fled to canada if germany had taken London

you know you would have done the same

>liberated from national socialism and fascism and gave many lives to install kikes in the rest of Europe
great job Sanjay

>interresting , always thought that vichy France was really nationalistic and not socialist as you say

It was, however it wasn't really a normal/positive nationalism, it was a guilty one, basically a punishment for losing against germans and blaming the french decadence (which was not totally wrong but still harsh because the population had the highest human and material loss of WW1 and the average frenchman wasn't very greedy for a round two, it was at 90% the politicians who fucked up by making unnecessary concession to Hitler while he was still a paper tiger).

Basically what happened is that the socialist called Pétain to the rescue and voted him the full powers thinking he would just remain a figurehead to cheer up the french population.
They were in for a huge suprise when he actually took the decision without giving a fuck about their opinions, truly a bunch of idiots.

>Another fun thing buried after WW2 is the fact Russia invaded Poland too
Bullshit,literally the most mainstream documentary WW2 in colour mentions the fact.

Are you Nazi larpers still using this meme?
And a French man calling someone Sanjay is hilarious. France is just an annex of Africa at this point.

Bollocks. we fought bravely, as did Canada.You should have some self-respect.

can't read you over the cries of children being raped

>what is the focus

That would imply it's happening in France, where you are, you fucking retard.

no it's implying that all your politicians and dozens of grooming gangs in each of your major cities are creating electromagnetic interferences by raping children

speaking of rape and ww2

>reminder that more french womens were raped by allies forces in 44 than by germans in their 4 years of occupation

Yes, I got that. My reply was stating that your joke was shit because you phrased it poorly. Keep trying though.

The british leadership refused to launch any counter attack and straight up abandoned the belgians at the first sight of the german divisions (which forced the surrender of Belgium, demoralized their forces and precipitated the disaster).

I will not pretend the french army wasn't strategically overhelmed but the british literally gave up and prepared to retreat as soon as the 25th may and let us fight alone for the 3 weeks (on a total of 5) of the Battle of France with half the quantity of material and men that germans had.

We are given a lot of (deserved shit) for this fiasco but the british don't even get 1/100 of the amount they deserve for not even trying and turning their backs on their allies, pic related the casualties, Belgium literally fought twice more than you.
It would probably have been ironically better to not have you engaged at all and be prepared to fight on our own like during WW1.

...

What baffles me the most is that they had guts to attack your navy at Mers-el-Kebir right after the surrender

So much for (((entente)))

Actually, I didn't read this reply properly, and it's pretty funny.

To be honest, I not an expert on WW2 by any means, and it sounds like you know your shit. I'm just sick of the constant shit Britain and the allies get for stopping Hitler. Members of my family fought and it offends me on a visceral level. The idea that a Nazi-controlled Europe would have been a Utopian wonderland seems naive in the extreme to me.

>listening to jewish lies

Kind of had too, considering that capitulation and even resistance by the Vichy government could not confirm in a long term sense that the french naval forces still under government control would not be pulled into use for the German war effort.

Yeah, and in the end they scuttled them anyway when germans came. But you succeeded in antagonizing them.

Do you honestly believe that there's an international Jewish conspiracy, or just that Jewish intellectuals have too much power and do a lot of harm (as I do). Genuine question, I'm curious.

by summer 1940, Germany seep utterly unstoppable. He did what he thought he had to do, to save France and the French people. He is judged after the fact because the Axis lost, but in 1940, they were on top of the world, and looked like months away from invading UK. Truly, Hitler sought for peace multiple times. He had no problems with the French or English, and only wanted to go east. Had UK accepted peace in 1940, WW2 deaths would have only been a few hundred thousand instead of tens of millions, and even if you hate the axis, there is a strong case for making peace, and engaging a cold war with them, instead of sacrificing europe as a lamb at the alter.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churchill,_Hitler_and_the_Unnecessary_War

You won't see me insulting our brave europeans soldiers, were they french, british, germans, etc.
Our soldiers and our enemies were all fucking braves.
Some if not most of our leaders were traitors and incompetent cowards.
They are the one deserving to be blamed for all that shit.

I can agree with you there.

yeah but dont forget today every european soldier was black trans woman fighting micro-aggression according to pop media

>tfw the last memories Pershing had for Petain was someone collaborating with the ennemies they fighted against.

also ww2 led to communism taking over damn half the world, and that led to something like 50m deaths unironically. This would have never happened with a strong west not sacrificed like lambs in ww2

Petain is one of those unfortunate figures of history and has been used as a constant scapegoat to explain away the quislings within the French government who capitulated.
Petain was a famous general from the first world war for the French troops, and was well remarked as having been a general who cared for his troops and the French army. He'd seen the blood baths that constant back and forth trench warfare had caused during the battles of the Western Front including the infamous Verdun and did not want a full blown occupation of his country to be the results.
Likewise the German government did not want to input the manpower it would have taken to govern the whole of France, when they could just as easily hold key positions as hostage and have an effective vassal state like those that had been established in all German occupied territory.
So to the fractions of the French government still left in power were in such disarray it made sense to select a figure who had commanded a level of respect and admiration from the general public in France, so Petain a career soldier with his solid reputation, and not a career politician.
That being said, Petain must have realized what would happen should the allies win back French independence. Whether or not he thought they would, he seemed at this point in his life to be resigned to making the best of a bad situation for his people in whichever way he could, at the expense of a small part of the population. (Communists, socialist, and Jews.)

Funny you say that as I rarely see americans who know anything about non american history (a'd even o that subject it is sometimes barely good enough), it's always hollywood memes. Still you are very right, there was a conscious choice to forget what happened in most european countries, it was necessary if something was to be rebuild. Though while rereading your posting I don't think that's what you meant by "burying WW2 history"

he was willing to look like the bad guy for his people. If there was no cooperation, many millions french may have died.

Anglos have a long history of pulling out this shit, they attacked and confiscated 300 civil french ships without war declaration in 1755 and destroyed the danish fleet by the same process in 1807.

Literally could launch a nuke by surprise on France or Germany tomorrow and I would only be half schocked knowing them.

also the fact that Poland had only existed for 20 years over the last 300, because Germany created them in WW1, and then they went and stole core prussian lands they haven't had since the 1600s. That's not talked about a lot, that context. Who know if Hitler would have stopped at Danzig, but it wasn't a baseless claim.

yeah but braindead normies think communism just means free healthcare and starbucks. Or they'll say "well, communism is still utopia, in theory!"

he always looks like a literal poo n loo in this photo

Point in case look at other capitulation prosecution cases after the end of the war.
All of the Quislings as they were termed were arrested, charged, and in most cases executed or imprisoned for life, and Petain was no different. He still decided to travel back to France of his own accord after the end of the war and stood trial. Afterwards it was a subject of great debate whether to commute his death sentence to life, and even after that had happened and he had been imprisoned, the American government and the Spanish government both offered asylum if the Marshal had his sentence commuted.
Petain knew what the risks were to his reputation and what the results might be in either cases.

If you want to talk about burying try and have a conversation with a Croatian about the Ustase, or any Romanian or Lithuanian about the war. They literally have no knowledge of their own countries participation outside of small groups of Facist fought with the Germans.
The Commies did a real good job to whitewash the truth about the governments being so anti USSR that they were pro German and even pro SS in some places.

Lithuania is a funny case, having at separate points, fought the USSR, fought the Germans, and then fought the USSR again

As I said, it was a necessity. Commies did it and so did we.
Europe was at its lowest, from their perspective at that time there could be no more better times, it was over. If you added to that some guilt baiting then it would never have risen up, it could also have turned people back to nazis that were not yet gone. I read about how they would force the germans to watch jewish movies about the horrors of the nazis and the german audience would just turn their backs and not watch them at all. I think up until the 50's there were still people sympathizing with the nazis, thinking that they did nothing wrong and that they even should come back.
There is also the problem of how should the country be run if you hang every nazi/nazi sympathizers when so many people were concerned. In France some judges that condemned people for collaborating with nazis did themselves some shady shit, there was no choice but to clean the slate