Redpill me on the Civil war and the confederacy

Redpill me on the Civil war and the confederacy
Was it about states rights?
Or was it really about slavery

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States' right to own slaves.

the right to be a carpet bagger

The tl;dr version is basically they yes, politically, the right to own slaves was a major reason for the war, but for economic reasons, not moral ones. But the average soldier fighting for either the union of the Confederacy probably didn't have slaves on the mind

This and this

There was also a deep cultural divide as well. Confederate soldiers were too poor to own slaves, but they fought none the less to preserve what they thoght were rights being infringed by the federal govt.

All those kids with the Yamaka's better run better run faster than my gas.

The problem is that Lincoln has been quoted as to have not wanted to free slaves, so it seems like there was more than just slaves

>states get uppity
>fed cracks down on them
>we wuz, dindus, etc
what can you expect, southerners are basically niggers on their own.

My state, NC, and several others didn't secede until lincoln ordered those states' militias to fight against the confederacy. It was without a doubt purely a states' rights issue for the upper Southern states. Even for the deep south, nobody was taking away their slaves at the time they seceded. It wasn't until well into the Civil War that lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation, and even then, that was meant to be an economic blow to the confederacy, not some gesture of goodwill towards mankind.

But southerners actually work and provide for the country, unlike you northern welfare faggots

yeah, it always seemed like freeing slaves was just a way to cause economic damage

It was less the banning of owning slaves, and more the implications of federal power established through it. Look up the Nullification Crisis, it shows people rebelling and claiming states' rights and nearly causing a civil war over tariffs

All these faggots saying muh slaves haven't a single fucking clue. Look up the corwin amendment. It literally would've made the right to keep slaves a constitutional amendment. Drafted by a northern democrat. Look up the rising taxes on the south at the time. The south was getting fucked hard, it was worried about much more than slaves, they were literally watching the industrial boom in the north, funded by the taxes from southern agriculture, and it pissed them off. Wouldnt you be pissed off if youcould barely make it, yet the yanks were getting rich off of your hard work?

>slavery is the norm
>a chunk of slaves get shipped to America, nothing unusual
>slaves cost a fuck ton, like basically a house
>they are property after all
>not only do they cost a lot, you have to feed them, bathe them, etc. so if they aren't making the progress you paid for, then you'd be upset too
>1861 and the North basically says 'ok this is immoral, let them free'
>'Free them? It's property and you are taking them away from us?'
>'Sorry, but yes. This is unjust.'
>'Fine, but we need to get our money back on the amount we spent on this property'
>'No'
>'Then fuck off, we aren't freeing them'

That's the civil war in the nutshell. Slavery may be an awful thing, but you are put into a weird position when back then it was the norm and it was expensive. Then when a group of people just take it away from you and you get nothing out of it, you'd fight back as well.

Here you go OP:
youtube.com/watch?v=8S96iQYL0bw
>mfw the South did nothing wrong

Secession from the Union was also made practically illegal in the years leading up to the war, further justifying the harsh measures taken during it. That and the expansion of slavery were key issues at the time.

basically this.
Regardless of where one may stand on the issue itself, its a matter of principle that the issue SHOULD have been left to the states to decide.
However, Northerners wanted to use the Federal Government to impose their will on others, much like they do today. As a result, states powers were significantly reduced while federal power significantly increased, but not as much as it did under (((FDR)))

TL;DR South was justified and should have won

Nobody was freeing the slaves before the civil war. That simply was not the issue.

I always thought Lincoln Freed the slaves, in the middle of the fucking war no less, as a power move to get the British to stop supporting CSA, which they were at the time

Confederate grey SS uniforms > Yankee uniforms

>Lincoln is the only reason we went to war

I can't believe someone would just go on the internet and say stupid shit. What a world

Centuries ago, the ideologies of the democrats and republicans were completely reversed and the modern day GOP is the remnants of the 19th century democratic party who lost the civil war. The south was losing the war, and when they had lost so badly and were literally days from surrender, Abe Lincoln used his war powers at the very last minute to finally end slavery.

it was about building a transcontinental railroad that would remain under one jurisdiction

Not only that but in Haiti the slaves ethnically cleansed white people. Killing and torturing families as they went house to house at night.

Many rich southerners feared that a true emancipation before it was ready would lead to "the horrors of st Domingo".

After he emancipation proclamation this sort of history was forgotten because it wasn't convenient.

>Nobody was freeing the slaves before the civil war
To be fair, there were a lot of societies, lawyers and politicians advocating and helping escpaed slaves at times. Just as there were copperheads who opposed the civil war on the Union's side and who had no real issue with slavery in and of itself.

The North and South were in an economic cold war since the founding of the union. The north originally floated the idea of northern secession until they acquired the upper hand in government. The south seeing this, and tired of the extra taxes and lack of proper representation decided to leave the union peacefully.

The North freaked when their cashcow ran the pasture. In the process of solidifying their sovereign territory, the south demanded the north pull out their men. The north refused, and in the port of Charleston, they dug in on a little pissant fort. The north then decided to send ships into those waters to defy the Southern order to evacuate. Faced with an threat of invasion, the south fired and the war was on.
The war simply came down to the south being free economically of the north. Slavery was a minor part of that economic war, as it lowered the immigrant and poor workers value.
Lincoln hated nogs and only "freed" them where he had no power to enforce it.

neither the north couldn't beat save labour. it was a war of economics, you're using the north's dollar now

>Drafted by a NORTHERN DEMOCRAT, northerners are hypocrites

Woah, hold on. A member of the party that supported slavery and supported the Confederates wrote a pro-slavery bill? You're blowing my mind. That shit really makes me think.

Retard

The North was industrialized, the South was agrarian, South still had the upper hand economically. The fight was in some ways over the future of the country economically.

The democratic southern economy relied on slaves, and to say slavery was a "minor part" is a bold faced lie.

it was a contributing factor yes, but it most certainly wasn't the reason you're average southerner would go to war.
look up Julius Howell

archive.org is your friend (search texts) Anything written after- esp after the civil rights movement got going, about FDR tends revisionist/ SJW.
Slavery was very much a side issue (because the north's purpose was to suppress productivity in the South. Slavery was directly tied in with that.) Research what conditions were like for the "freed" slaves in the north. Slavery wasn't abolished for a number of years after.

ps A secondary issue for the north was that the new Western states did not make slavery legal.
pps Research the other political activities of the abolitionists (women's suffrage, licentiousness). Pretty telling who/ what they were.

…slavery wasn't abolished in the north for a number of years after...

Great post!

States rights. Robert E. Lee was actually apart of the US army before and was pained to leave in order to support his belief that states should have more power.
But he and many others were more than willing to fight for that belief and they just so happened to be the states in the south.

There wasn't official slavery up north at the time if the civil war though I'm not sure how they take the high ground with the way the (((factories))) up there paid so little that entire families had to work 18 hours every single day and the combined income was barely enough to make rent and feed themselves every month. At least the slaves down south knew they would always have food and a roof over their head.

Maryland and Kentucky still practiced slavery you dolt

Slavery. The states rights where a dying good old meme that finally croaked it in the war trying to save its bdsm obsessed younger brother

This is like saying the current wars are about terrorism when theyre really about control of the middle east for trade deals for the jews just because the average skippy is high on murica

Kentucky isn't a northern state you mongoloid

They sided with the union
they were under federal jurisdiction during the war

your straw man is appalling

he also kept slaves in the north

it was about money and banking. green backs and attempt to stop the fed. rothschilds demanded action from europe, but napolean wars were happening and refused to comply. resulted in the only sitting politician in britain to be assassinated and then magically war with the colonies as demanded.

Its not a strawman you nigger. If the sentiment of the average soldier dictates the purpose of a war then it does so regardless of the passage of time you little shit. Calling it a strawman just because your shitty arguement doesnt fit reality is delusional.

memes aside, it wasn't about anything

This except you should never be ashamed about it as a southerner. I hate the people who beat around the bush and act like slavery had nothing to do with it. Slavery was on the way out anyway. Eventually the southern states would had abolished it. It was a war that should of never happened.

It centered around various issues like slavery, by the core reason for secession was self-determination.

The north tried various routes of appeasement several times, even going as far as producing the Corwin amendment, which was preemptively signed by the POTUS and backed by Lincoln. This amendment would have given the institution of slavery constitutional protection. The south rejected these terms, because slavery was not the core issue.

Ironically, the south's refusal to accept northern attempts at appeasement ensured slavery was eliminated instead of still being around to this very day.

Enjoy

It never should have happened because the North never should have invaded when the South decided to peacefully leave the Union.

it was because the jews moved over in the 1840s and started being self righteous faggots. see the articles for declaration of secession, second to last line.

slavery was just the legal precedent

If the war never happened, slavery would have been given constitutional protection as "domestic institution" via the Corwin amendment.

My family line is direct descendant to General Robert Lee. It fucking pisses me off how much The North, liberals and sjws tramples our heritage. One day The South will rise again mark my words.

States rights and the removal of slavery was about economic hardship. Bear in mind only 3% of those that fought for the confederacy actually owned slave directly.

nigger, what?

>bimbo dickins
kek
anyone have a WV constitution?

aye, kills me inside each time they tear down a statue

Here's hoping.
youtube.com/watch?v=zZKXWvHdLzI

States rights

One of those was slavery that triggered the states rights argument

The war was really about power and control the south wanted to divide and the north wanted to maintain

North won

I was saying, its abhorrent to compare the casus belli of a FOREIGN war to a CIVIL war.

Europa Universalis player?

States rights...

...to own slaves. :^)

no, a filthy plebeian

It was about the right to own slaves. That was literally in South Carolina's reasons for declaring war, the North's hostility to slavery. They didn't care about much else.

>t. Shill

Right but thats an issue of states rights

The north didnt declare war on the south for enslaving the first slave

The north fought the south because the south wanted to make its own decisions and the north wanted to make decisions for the south

Those decisions happened to be centered around slavery

They declared secession because of slavery, they declared war because the North wouldn't take their troops out of the South.

Read davis' memoir on the matter. I think it was called a "short history of the confederate states" or something.

Basically, davis realised a few things

>industrialisation would end slavery anyway
>blacks were getting overpopulated in the south.

He figured that it would be best to alleviate the overpopulation by "expanding" slavery in the territories, so that slave owners would have incentive to take their blacks out of the south.

When expansion was denied, they seceded, with the legal assumption being that the 10th amendment preserved the pre-constitution status of the states as being sovereign nations in a union.

Por que no los dos?

Freeing slaves in the south didnt matter.

Black overpopulation was an existential crisis for the south, though -- southerners needed the territories to enter the union permitting slavery.

IDC what your political affiliation is, with the huge exemption of ISIS prisoners being sold for organ harvesting, I am 100% against ever owning another human being.

up vote

It was about both.

Chekkkked

States rights.

There was 2 big movements in the early days of America. 1 was the federalists let by John Adams and Alexander Hamilton. These men were monarchist worshipping, big central bank worshipping cucks. The other was the small government antifederalists led by Thomas Jefferson.

Remember, before the constitution we had the articles of CONFEDERATION.

The South didn't want to be dominated politically by the North so wanted its own country with its own interests. Similar to how the US seceded from Great Britain less than 100 years before the Civil War.

It was definitely about slavery for the South (Confederate leaders proclaimed it themselves, the politically correct reasons like 'states rights' were invented after CSA's downfall) but for the North it was about power in general and Lincoln's dictatorial ambitions in particular. Lincoln basically seized on a popular moral outrage in order to justify both an economic destruction of a hostile territory and an expansion of his own power.

LOL, ok cletus.

Without the teat of the north supplying you and your seven inbred children with gibs, you'd all starve.

The south offers literally nothing to the rest of the country.

So, to put it in a different way, the Civil War was actually about states' rights... from the North's perspective, to be precise it was about eliminating the idea once and for all.

Pre war south was the spiritual center of abolition movement. Most abolitionists there, were poor white southerners who wanted to deport the blacks because the slaves were taking most of the jobs. Not every slave worked out in the field and not every poor white could afford to move north and get a factory job.

When the war broke out is was immensely unpopular with the poor whites and they refused to die in a rich man's war, until the union started committing atrocities against the white civilian population. The union had to up the draft quotas because of how many people were now fighting for the south.

Then after the war ended the union refused to police the freed slaves who wanted revenge. So the former slaves terrorized the poor whites because their former masters were protected by the union. Any poor white that defended himself from the wrath of the former slaves was publicly hung without trial. So the poor whites began wearing masks and hoods to cover their identities and this the first incarnation of the KKK was born. It was formalized in 1873 as a vigilante police force.

History is not black and white it's various shades of grey. People are so quick to paint everything with a broad brush. Every action has a cause and effect.

checked.

The CSA was a jew plot to destroy America with niggers.

re: that flag
>The flag that Miles had favored when he was chairman of the "Committee on the Flag and Seal" eventually became the battle flag and, ultimately, the most popular flag of the Confederacy. According to Museum of the Confederacy Director John Coski, Miles' design was inspired by one of the many "secessionist flags" flown at the South Carolina secession convention in Charleston of December 1860. That flag was a blue St George's Cross (an upright or Latin cross) on a red field, with 15 white stars on the cross, representing the slaveholding states,[33][34] and, on the red field, palmetto and crescent symbols. Miles received a variety of feedback on this design, including a critique from Charles Moise, a self-described "Southerner of Jewish persuasion." Moise liked the design but asked that "...the symbol of a particular religion not be made the symbol of the nation." Taking this into account, Miles changed his flag, removing the palmetto and crescent, and substituting a heraldic saltire ("X") for the upright cross. The number of stars was changed several times as well. He described these changes and his reasons for making them in early 1861. The diagonal cross was preferable, he wrote, because "it avoided the religious objection about the cross (from the Jews and many Protestant sects), because it did not stand out so conspicuously as if the cross had been placed upright thus." He also argued that the diagonal cross was "more Heraldric [sic] than Ecclesiastical, it being the 'saltire' of Heraldry, and significant of strength and progress.

>According to Coski, the Saint Andrew's Cross (also used on the flag of Scotland as a white saltire on a blue field) had no special place in Southern iconography at the time, and if Miles had not been eager to conciliate the Southern Jews, his flag would have used the traditional upright "Saint George's Cross"

interesting.

Another thing I read, i think it was by mark twain, but he was from Mississippi, and he mentioned how he had never seen any slave being mis treated.

The way slaves in the south were treated was fucked up.

Any pro slavery shills here are most likely arabs.

If that's the case, then why didn't you let them leave?

Oh good, you found a map of where all the blacks are. You damn yankees can have them back and if you think us Southerners are so dumb than do us both a favor and let us leave.
youtube.com/watch?v=EfqtHzis9to

Nigger, did it cross your mind that losing a total war (which involved strategic destruction of infrastructure among other things) would have something to do with South's current economic woes? Poland became an independent country almost a hundred years ago and to this day you can clearly see the borders of empires that controlled these territories before on any economics-related map.

You're already owned by the state you fucking moron, whose laws do you obey? Who imprisons you if you refuse to pay them money? Who bars you from leaving except under their laws?

faggot, you're not supplying gibs to me and mine.

Blaming all of your problems on something that happened 250 years ago sounds suspiciously familiar

>You damn yankees can have them back

We're not the ones that brought them here, Cleetus

>if you think us Southerners are so dumb than do us both a favor and let us leave.

That wouldn't be humane.

"people" from the north are fucking weirdos, then you have Massachussetts, whose inhabitants are on par with niggers
sort yourself out boyo

>Was it about states rights?
>Or was it really about slavery

No, it's time to take the blackpill. The real war was fought over [spoiler] goober peas [/spoiler]

...

,4 people in my family are named after lee

What did exactly happen 250 years ago? CSA fell about 160 years ago and since then has been ruled by a hostile government.

based pole is on point today

The Civil war was about money. The Southern Plantations were heavily indebted to ((Northern Banks)) The South was also seeking to industrilize like the North. But with debt and the tariffs they could not accumulate the capital to build up the economy. They were being sucked dry by the North. Abolition was sore spot because the slaves served as collateral on the loans and what do you do with all those freed slaves? When the South seceded the ((Bankers)) were out potentially hundreds of billions in todays money. And made it clear to Lincoln they would take the entire U.S down with them. In short the Civil War the largest and bloodiest Bank repossession in history. These facts and narrative were buried during the rise communism. As the idea of people in American history rebeling against unfavorable economic systems did not fit the US Pro-Capitalist Narrative. So the Revolutionary war was recast as being about lack of representation in government and the Civil War became about slavery exclusively.

AAALL those jewish kids
Whiny, greedy yids
Better run better run

>Confederate grey
god yes

Jew's brought blacks over on their ships as a false flag to give women property rights.(citation below) Because 1866 black men could own property but all women couldn't. Harriet Breecher Stow funded by Salmon P Chase (Rothschild shill) equated not owning property as to being slaves. Two years after the Civil War 1868 women could own property and this is why the religious brothers of the South fought for to keep unity of the smallest form of government the nuclear family with the MAN being head of the house.

Elizabeth Donnan, Four Volumes, "Documents Illustrative of the History of the Slavetrade to America" , Washington D.C. 1930. 1935 Carnegie Institute of Technology, Pittsburgh, PA

Destroy America within by creating dysfunctional families.