TRUMP ISN'T THE MOST LIBERTAR-

TRUMP ISN'T THE MOST LIBERTAR-
>fixes free market health care

How will rhinos and Gary "DUDE WEED LMAO" Johnson fags ever recover?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient
gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>Amerifats actually believe that a for-profit healthcare healthcare system jews them LESS than a not-for-profit system, like every other developed country has, would

ITT: We laugh at shart-in-marts

>implying the NHS wasn't created because doctors weren't "making enough money"
>Implying the NHS wasn't created because health associations made doctors compete for patients and not the other way around
>Implying NHS is more practical, ethical, cost efficient
>Implying you don't have to sell your right of choice to the NHS
check out this britbong

>t. guy who knows nothing

- Doctors here make a fraction of what they would in the US sucking the patients' blood.
- Yes it is more practical
- It's absolutely more ethical - the doctors actually try and cure you instead of stringing you along with 'treatment' for as long as they can. And as for input-benefit disparity (richer people putting more in and likely taking less out from it), most people honestly don't mind it. They know anything could hapen to them at any time and don't mind paying higher taxes to have this noble and reliable system in place. And waiting a few weeks is infinitely preferable to vampire doctors who look to drain you.
-LMAO a for-profit meribabby talking about 'efficiency'. You spend twice what other developed countries do do with outcomes twice as bad. Why? Because in a for-profit system, doctors, insurance, pharma and everyone else is making money directly off illness - they have no incentive to cure and every incentive to prolong.

And before you throw up more NHS-specific strawmen, keep in mind you don't have to have a centralised system like it to have not-for-profit healthcare. Look at Germany, Singapore, any of these other countries. Any developed country apart from yours, basically.

Have a bump for your dead thread.

>implying United States has had a Free market health system in the past 50 years

lol

You get what you pay for. State sponsored health care is not-for-profit the same way universities are not-for-profit; They are for profit but never fail because they have the limitless pockets of government to fall back on.

>definitely more ethical
>LITERALLY force a family to let their child die and not get experimental treatment elsewhere
you fuckers wouldn't even let them board the fucking plane.

Millions of Americans are already binding together to demand less expensive insurance, it's called Obamacare.

I think you mean millions of niggers, spics, and whores banding together for more free shit.

you're joking, right? You're obviously either a welfare leech or a nigger.

Isn't it time for British SUBJECTS final prayer of the day, Mohammedan?

>either a welfare leech or a nigger
What's the difference?

t. Ignorant english jackass opines about an American system that baffles his belfry

youtu.be/fFoXyFmmGBQ
Watch and learn, britfag

People always post chart's like yours as if they are a bad thing.

The US spends more money on healthcare because we have more advanced products and procedures and a citizenry who is rich enough to afford them.

Less spending on healthcare is not a good thing. India's per capita spending on healthcare is less that $10...that doesn't mean it's good.

...

>it's called Obamacare.
Forced to purchase from specific sellers? That is not a free market.

Not that I give a shit. I pay for private insurance because when I get ill, I demand the best. Its amazing to me that I pay less for my family than any single person I know on ACA....and my plan is a "Cadillac" plan.

Completely unaware that the NHS actually subcontracts Private health companies precisely because they do a better job at lower cost.

Same old story.
>Somebody I know gets referred to private hospital,
>they get their appointment and turn up,
>They are actually seen at their appointment time.
>They talk to doctor who looks further at issue and maybe decides you need specialist surgery.
>Books appointment.
>Turn up for surgery, shown to private room which own TV usually with package.
>Have surgery, on time.
>spend couple of days recovering, relaxing and fairly good food
>Go home.

Ask how private health care was.

>Nothing but praise

Ask if they think if service is worth the money

>more often than not agree that it is

Ask if they would pay for it themselves

>look at me as if I just asked them to put their dogs dick in the electrical outlet.

>the absolute STATE of amerifat education
I said you have a for-profit system. I didn't say it was free market.
A for-profit system can come in various forms.
- Purely free market.
- Frankenstein hybrid of market + govt intervention (what you have now)
- State-run for-profit (most naked flavour of for-profit, but hey it's techinically possible)

It doesn't matter which version you get. For-profit = VAMPIRES.

Not-for-profit actually comes in various forms. UK. Canada. Aus. Singapore. Japan. Germany. Take your pick. But the common thread is it's not-for-profit, which is the only good way to have it. You sharts are so brainwashed. I honestly feel sorry for you.

Oh god another idiot falling for the propaganda.
>muh chrisschun values!
Go and rea the actual details of the case.
There was absolutely no fucking cure. His genes were irreperable.
What (((Dr Michi Hirano))) was offering was 'some' 'experimental' 'treatment' to 'ease' 'some' of his symptoms. In exchange for millions of dollars, of course, eheehehhehehe. The baby would still have stayed a potato and died.

Oh god I can't even reply to all these (Yous), which for once I didn't collect though bait for fun. You Americans are IN LOVE with your slavery.

kill yourself.

Yuropoors actually believe a for-profit space program jews them LESS than a not-for-profit system, like every other developed country has

>yfw "Health Associations" is code word for "Unions"

IT DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER IF THERE IS NO CURE. It was THEIR choice. There was literally no reason to not let them go except for control, that's it. Also, the only way to find cures is to do experimental procedures, even if it's a guaranteed fail, you ignorant bongfucker. That's probably why the US has the most medical advancements and you guys don't progress shit.

I don't mind private unions, as long as they don't have any political leverage. Health lodges (associations) were a great thing back then and would work great now. but doctors and the medical community didn't like having to whore out their services, just like every other service, because they are egotistical maniacs.

we regulated the charity hospitals out of business...literally, that's why we don't have a free catholic hospital in every major city (they were still around in the 50s and 60s)....all that's left is shriners and st jude's....the charity hospitals kept the cost of health care in check....now, with no competition, the hospitals and insurance companies are raping us....this tiny bit of competition will likely drop insurance premiums drastically over the next couple years
when americans are allowed, we take care of our own through charitable donations....the goverment monopoly on "taking care of the poor" is what drives our taxes up and our quality of life down....easy to see in health care, if you actually look for it

Absolutely. The AMA ruined healthcare way back when and now we are trying to put back the pieces in ways that benefits everybody.
The political leverage unions have is the same as any group of people.

>mCcain right now

people are leeches, when given the opportunity. We just can't help it

>brits believe free healthcare means high quality health care

kek

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liverpool_Care_Pathway_for_the_Dying_Patient

>The Liverpool Care Pathway for the Dying Patient (LCP) was a UK care pathway (excluding Wales) covering palliative care options for patients in the final days or hours of life. It was developed to help doctors and nurses provide quality end-of-life care. Now discredited, the LCP was widely abused as a 'tick box exercise', with patients being casually assessed as terminal, heavily sedated, and denied water so the diagnosis became self-fulfilling. Hospitals were also provided cash incentives to achieve targets for the number of patients killed on the LCP.

Why do Trump supporters always vote in favor of their economic interests?

Who here can see how this can/will be a massive failure?

>condescendingly mocks free market
>looks for comfort in mob mentality
Why not just list your reasonings and be done? Why play coy?

Explain how exactly this would hurt in anyway?

Actually it does matter.
Of course the parents wanted it (irrationally but that's understandable).
And of course (((Dr Michio Hirano))) wanted it.
But it was NOT in the interest of the baby.
This is what the emotinal idiots who don't know the facts of the case aren't grasping.
The courts (3 different courts) ruled the way they did for the baby's sake. It was not about the parents, or commerical freedums. The baby would suffer more. The upheaval. And then undergoing this 'experimental treatment' that does nothing to actually cure him, doesn't even address the main cause. I beg you to actually read the details. The medical details. Until you do you are in no position to call me ignorant. The court ruled to prevent the baby from having his misery prolonged and being expermented on by (((American))) (((scientists))) with a (((for-profit))) motive that had nothing to do with fixing him, and nothign to do with finding a fix for future cases.
gosh.nhs.uk/frequently-asked-questions-about-charlie-gard-court-case

oh god this idiotic strawman again.
It's not free. It's not-for-profit.

True...it's not a measure on its own.
It has to be spend:outcome.
Every other developed nation like the ones I've mentioned have better outcomes than the US with half the spend.

Also your prices are jacked up because the for-profit motive is fully unleashed.
For medical equipment, for drugs - the NHS (or individual trusts) can negotiate good prices because their such big buyers. And then bear the burden so as to not jew the patients.

In your system, hospitals, doctors, insurance companies...they don't mind high drug and equipment prices. In fact, they prefer them to soar. Because they just pass the costs on to you, the patient. They don't fucking care. More money for them. That's a big part of why your spending is higher for the same actual equipment, drugs, labour. (And for worse outcomes, nonetheless).

>getting experimental treatment isn't in the interest of the baby
>everyone except the parents get to make that judgement
The absolute cucked state of the UK.

>can't see the issues that will arise
>Boy Scouts are letting Girls in

People group together.
Get insurance together.
Some groups will get better rates than others.
Country of inclusion, buddy.
Hypothetically, American Runners Insurance Association is going to get a better rate than the Tumblr Hambeasts Insurance Association and that's going to be a problem. I expect a supreme court ruling on this one.
Even a neighborhood association, a community of just homeowners in a group will get the letter that "this guy Fat user is making the premium higher, drop Fat user and you'll save xx%."
Blacks will get funneled together, whites will get funneled together and that will be racist.
Etc. just think about it.

Good to see the courts have more control over one's child than the actual parents.

At least you fucking cunts don't have social justice and human rights courts.

You do know this thread is about free market healthcare, right? You're the one who strawmanned "for profit" into the conversation, achmed.

>can't cohesively come up with ANYTHING on the fly
>physically unable to even remotely convince people his communistic views are right

Whats A have to do with B? Selling across state lines increases competition. Competition drives price down. Common sense.

how is this an issue? All we have to do is fight their retarded socialist fights in the courts.

Leeches are always going to be leeches. Not much we can do about that.

okay then retard
>brits believe not-for-profit healthcare means quality healthcare
try refuting that "strawman" you decaying sack of human shit

>don't mind paying higher taxes to have this noble and reliable system in place. And waiting a few weeks is infinitely preferable

Seeing that article this morning was amazing. I fucking love this timeline

>Every other developed nation like the ones I've mentioned have better outcomes than the US with half the spend.

That's true in SOME cases, but it's irrelevant.

New and experimental procedures/products have extreme costs when they first hit the market to recoup R&D costs.

You wouldn't say the US has absurd telecom prices compared to a country that is still using Motorola Startachs and Landline phones, and you wouldn't say it has absurd prices compared to a country stuck on Blackberries.

The rate of new product introduction in any vertical drives up overall cost, so the nation with the most innovation will always have the highest costs.

The only metric the US does poorly on is infant mortality, and this has absolutely nothing to do with our healthcare system and everything to do with R vs K selection. Whites have extremely low infant mortality no matter where they live and other races do not - the US is only 65% white. Look at the numbers in the chart I posted - this isn't an access problem, it's a responsibility problem.

>waiting a few weeks is infinitely preferable
>Founding member of the NHS dies at her own hospital after her heart surgery is delayed for the fourth time
The bong was never the same after his bongs were taken away.

isn't the health association thing just like unions? or am i wrong. i wanna give rand paul the benefit of the doubt but this smells like unionization to me

libertarians like rand don't mind private unions. Hell, unions were a good thing for capitalism. It's when they sway politicians and public unions that are cancer.

You always have to ask yourself "what's the worst that could happen?"

I don't give a shit if we can all buy chinese health insurance because its cheaper. The point I'm trying to make is a group of lard asses is going to get high ass rates. Or you'll have a group with a few lard asses and the rest will be pressured to kick them out.

The best that can happen is fat people get less fat.
The worst is the supreme court ruling it too exclusive.

I see what you're saying but I'd rather get to that bridge first before we worry about how to cross it.

Hopefully Americans will just stop being as fat.

what's the difference between private and public unions? i thought all unions were the same lol. shit idk about unions

>when they sway politicians

Like what? A group of people? Voting?
"when they sway politicians" is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Everyone does that.

They wont ever recover

Trump campain promises:
>build wall
check
>fix healthcare
check
>deport illegals
check
>travel ban
check
>lower taxes
next up

>bonus points
triggering liberals on the daily

private unions are just people grouping together for a common goal. Like health care associations or worker unions. they provide higher class employees (supposedly) for more benefits and cost.

Public unions and political unions use this number leverage to force what they want, i.e. making companies bend to their demands or signing contracts with governments without taxpayer approval, who is paying their salaries.

private, non political unions are fine, as long as they aren't forced.

No shit for brains, I mean lining their pockets with shekels.

>How will rhinos and Gary "DUDE WEED LMAO" Johnson fags ever recover?
By using the court system to stop and ultimately destroy it

So you're jealous.

No, it's unethical, dumbass and should be illegal, which in many ways it is. They still find ways around it.

Don't forget the morbidly obese!

Oohhh... ethics matter now.

t. democrat

Public unions also get politicians to make it illegal to be in certain professions unless you are in the union (teachers union in most states)

>conveniently ignores the part about outcomes, focuses only on money spent as if this is the arbiter of positive results, and not the actual outcomes themselves being so

You're trying so hard to look retarded.

>britbongs actually believe that there is an actual non-profit healthcare system and that the govern isn't in association with large companies establishing monopolies
point and laugh at mohamed

In some ways I am, in others not.
You're just mad because nobody represents you.
Everyone is either a kike puppet or a coon apologist. Lonely world.

>refute my opinion

You're literally retarded, buddy.

Insurers still need to go to every State's commissioner in order to be allowed to sell insurance there. It's not like you can sell a plan in California and have doctors and hospitals take it in Maine without establishing a network there (which is what's preventing this from happening before).
certified dummies.

>higher taxes to have this noble and reliable system
>taxes for "free" healthcare are more than 2x what my taxes are now, even being in a higher tax bracket, even more expensive than paying for the best plan out of pocket

Hmmmm

>make insurance more affordable by causing premiums to skyrocket

Makes sense to me

...

The baby was his own person.
The court weren't debating on his parents' rights. That wasn't the fucking issue. It was the poor baby's welfare.
The parents' (understandable but clearly irrational) fee-fees don't get to prolong his suffering, when there is no fundamental fix. The (((treatment))) 'may' have 'eased' one or two of his symptoms. Nothing more.

Of course not every outcome is perfect. But it's better than deliberately getting jewed by a (((for-profit))) motive.
If there wasn't broad-based support for our system, it would fall quickly. Because surely everyone earning over the average salaray, everyone (theoreticaly) putting more in than getting out, would say 'hey, this isn't economical for me, fuck it!'. 50% of the country. Are you saying 50% of the country doesn't want the NHS? We vote Tory most of the time, we even voted to leave the EU. Are you telling me the NHS woudl survive if all those people didn;t want it, if they felt they were getting jewed by it? Of course it wouldn't. So why is it still here? Because they don't think they're getting jewed, they think it's a good deal.

I saved your thread from dropping off page 10 TWICE. Now APOLOGISE!

Btw, I shit on (((for-profit))) healthcare, and suddenyl my internet cuts out. Normal restarting router didn't work. Took 3 times. Really makes me think...
Hopefully my ID stays the same

>the baby was his own person
>therefore the court tribunal should choose if he should live

I like you, you actually engage intellectually unlike the rest of the retards here.
You make some good poitns. New/experimental things driving up costs.
But I have counter questions:

1) Is everything new being developed (with costs passed down to patients) actually being done with humanity in mind? With future patients in mind to cure them or improve their treatment? Or is it like your MIC and wars, new projects being done just for the sake of them to make money for those involved, tax/insurance payers be damned, and outcomes be damned. Is research (and thus the money) really going into the right areas, the right projects, every time? There's so much scope for corruption in your system, you have to be very suspricious.

2) Regarding those areas where new things are being developed: how small/big are those areas, compared to the bulk of medical issues, the bulk of patients, the meat and potatoes of healthcare? Obviously cancer's a big one. Cases like Charlie Gard, weird genetic stuff? Pretty rare. Diabetus? Self-inflcited, and solution is easy (either burn off those carbs or don't take in so many). But for a patient with broken bones, or someone brought it from a car accident just holding on...there really isn't much more research to be done in those areas. Their treatment is pretty straightforward. How happy are they that their overall costs are jacked to cover research in areas that they don't fuckign care about?

Well the baby couldn't speak up for himself. So it was either
>the courts
supposedly with his interest in mind
vs
>the parents
(who have his but also their own interests in mind (don't want to lose their beloved baby))
>and (((american for-profit scientists)))
who supposedly have his interest in mind

Hmmm, I wonder who I would trust...
You keep posting the same meme over and over. Have you read the details yet? Or is it just about
>muh libertarian market principles
>muh chrischun values
, facts be damned?

as far as i see, healthcare is a synonym for pharmacies, or basically jewish chemical companies funded by rockefeller. healthcare is self-care.

Well I'll be damned. Trump might not be as economically illiterate as I thought!

>So why is it still here?
what is brainwashing?
>Because they don't think they're getting jewed, they think it's a good deal.

oh i see. thanks

I'm sure all the fat fucks with beetus and piles of illegals abusing the ER system for their routine care have nothing to do with our higher costs.

Imagine the reaction if he legalizes WEED
right before 2020 election cycle gets going

>not in the parents' interest to try to save their dying baby or ease their suffering

>got rid of the TPP
>thinks Trump is economically illiterate

gib link to article

>patients denied water to kill them
Fucking cold man

All you're posting is greentext.
Show us some subtance. And show your flag, coward.

We bongs have just as many fat beetus fucks as you. 64% of England is overweight. (40% overweight, 24% obese).
Plenty of foreign nationals gettign free care too. Yet our spending is still lower with better outcomes.

Beetus and illegals are a drain, but they aren't the core of the problem. The problem is your for-profit system. For-profit = VAMPIRES. Wake up.

I learned to stop underestimating him long ago.

>Wanting Nafta II: Asian Boogaloo

Will Sup Forums band together for healthcare?

>/care/

I stand with rand!

>ask why we should have stayed in the TPP
>FUCKIN DRUMPFFFF YOU'RE A WHITE MALE
>right but why is TPP bad
>QUIT FUCKING FILMING ME YOU'RE GOING TO EDIT THIS TO MAKE ME LOOK STOOPID

I'm saying getting rid of the TPP and seeing how it's shit shows Trump is economically savvy

Our current for-profit system needs work, the insurance industry as it stands is anti-competitive. If we had better competition the profit margins would be lower. We also subsidize pharma development for the rest of the world with our high drug prices.

Sorry about your fatty problem.

Rand Paul is just some charity doctor/tax payer union creator/medical board leader

what could he possibly know about healthcare, taxes, and regulation!

Nice to see Rand Paul sell himself out like the rest of the republicans. Fucking pathetic what the GOP has become.

Seriously own up to it Trump bots (and Russians)

When Obama was president all you idiots hated executive orders but now theyre great? Pathetic no standard GOP.

>executive actions are actually legal
Woah that was easy