if we win, you hear us out on the gospel, deal?
1) how can free will exist without God?
2) how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
3) why was the Bible ahead of science?
4) how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises of the Old Testament?
5) how can morality exist without God?
6) how can the universe come into existence without God?
you are required to answer all of these 6 questions to our satisfaction.
THIS IS A SHARIAH CONTROLLED ZONE.
BUMP!
you keep spamming atheist/pagan threads but ignore real discussion threads.
cowards.
What's up with this recent influx of Christians? I've been posting here for over a year and these threads are becoming more common it seems. You should know by now that religion isn't appreciated in the Alt-Right
How can a just God put people into a burning lake of fire for all eternity?
Eternal darkness and eternity without the presence of God(knowing you dun fucked up)? Sure. But burning for all eternity? comon now
Give me some proper theological answers and not just HEHE FAGGOTS BTFO and i'll go pick up and read my KJV bible that is collecting dust.
OP...that's not how it works. Besides if they had a miracle proven in front of them they'd barf themselves to death before they could repent.
Still not atheism :D !
You should know that faggots aren't appreciated here on the Alt-Right
Without God on your side you alt-fighters have no hope of victory.
>I've been posting here for over a year
I hate you so fucking much
>muh based kike on a stick will marry your daughter to a fellow based black man, because race is just a social construct
kek
Why did your god create niggers? checkmate
It doesn't work like that. Evryone is condemned to hell because of their innate evil nature, however, everyone can avoid this fate by simply following the correct procedure.
Because it looks cool? Jesus, you people just don't get it!
>how can free will exist without God?
What, retard? You've got it mixed up, free will can't exist with God. If there is am omnipotent creator you don't make choices, you only do what he made you to do.
>how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
It doesn't.
>why was the Bible ahead of science?
It wasn't.
>how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises of the Old Testament?
How could a mythical figure match up with other myths? A mystery.
>how can morality exist without God?
You need somebody telling you that an imaginary man told him what right and wrong are for you to know right and wrong?
>how can the universe come into existence without God?
It didn't "come into existence". You're looking at reality from a creationist viewpoint instead of a real world viewpoint.
Also, fuck off with your shitty edited pictures. Learn to draw if th want to make OC, don't draw over other shit.
How? Because we are sinners and transgressors of the law. Have you ever told a lie? You're a sinner, and the punishment for sin is eternity in hell.
BUT, luckily for us, Jesus Christ died for our sins, and all we have to do is accept His free gift of salvation in order to NOT go to heaven.
So, when you die and meet God at the throne, he will look at your and it will be clean, because your sins are imputed onto Christ when you become a believer.
I think modern Christians miss a very important opportunity. You need to talk about AI morality. It's one thing to say that Bible is a good guideline for humans - the counter-argument would be that it's not a realistic guideline for humans. However, it's perfectly realistic for an AI society constructed from the ground up. And seeing how we will probably be creating an AI society this century, a debate on what moral code that AI should follow is surely a very important one. This is a perfect opportunity for Christians to offer a vision of bright future instead of making very conservative and boring arguments points. You could literally build a robotic country where everyone is a robotic Jesus. Wouldn't that be nice.
>recent influx of Christians
>been posting here for over a year
Probably, so that they can prosper under the correct supervision. People who think niggers are the same as them(there's only one race; the human race) are unable to fulfill this function.
Atheism can be proven by science, I think. If we could prove that conciousness arises out of brain matter only with no quantum physics involved, then we are no greater than our physical selves, but also do not have free will. We would be slaves to our chemical process, meaning we could never make a different decision twice under the same biologic cicumstances.
Whereas if we do have some sort of quantum energy flowing through our brains then we are greater than ourselves and a higher plane might be possible
ITT: atheist larper seeks attention
>You could literally build a robotic country where everyone is a robotic Jesus. Wouldn't that be nice.
>everyone is a robotic hobo who does nothing but preach and get nailed to crosses all day
Sounds fun
>If there is am omnipotent creator you don't make choices, you only do what he made you to do.
Wrong. God gave us free will. But free will can not exist without a God because without a God, we are just particles reacting to our environment.
>It doesn't.
It does. Historians use the Bible to look at real empires and nations that were previously not known. For a long time, historians believed the Hittites were not a real people, but they dug up some stuff and proved that the Biblical accounts were correct.
>It wasn't.
Pic related.
>You need somebody telling you that an imaginary man told him what right and wrong are for you to know right and wrong?
Without an objective arbiter of truth, morality can not exist. Murder and stealing is wrong because God says so, not because man said so.
>It didn't "come into existence".
Yes it did. Even astronomers accept that the universe came into existence. There is no evidence that the universe is "eternal", and "eternal universe" violates the laws of physics.
I just sneezed into my hand, where do I get a dove that I can burn so that my hand gets cleaned?
Robots are not created in the image of God like human beings are -- and they are not alive.
>how can free will exist without God?
I don't know the nature of free will. And I don't believe any man does. So, any such question has no answer.
>how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
It can't. It can - like all faiths, sects and sharlatans, "predict" post factum, and there is no uniqueness or worth in that.
>why was the Bible ahead of science?
It wasn't. Christian Church impeded scientific progress specifically because they saw it as heresy.
>how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises of the Old Testament?
Because the people who wrote Christian fairty tales wrote it like this.
>how can morality exist without God?
It can only exist without God. At the very least, it can only exist without Christian god. If your moral or immoral act begets you reward and punishment, there isn't a drop of true morality remaining. All your actions are purely pragmatism and self-interest.
>how can the universe come into existence without God?
Same as the First question
>if we win
Define winning a debate.
Science does not study objective reality. All it studies is the reality that is presented to us by our senses. Those senses could be all wrong, this could all be a simulation or a dream of flipping dog, we'll never know because we have no way to study objective reality. And if I'm living in a dream of dog, surely that dog is my God and atheism is wrong.
...
Sorry but saying God's hand was forced is not good enough... Whatever maybe there is no good answer
>nothing but preach and get nailed to crosses all day
There's you mistake, that would happen to Jesus in a society of humans. Create a society where everyone is as good as Jesus and nobody will nail him to a cross and he'll have nobody to preach to. That can't be achieved with humans though, we're just not good enough. Robots are as good as we make them to be.
Biblical prophecy is being fulfilled today, and that's bad news for nearly everyone.
There's no reason debating with fedora tipping redditors. They can't hold a single argument without falling back to "BUT NO PROOF. GOD ISN'T REAL"
>Robots are not created in the image of God
If we are created in the image of God and we create robots in the image of Jesus, surely that's good enough.
What's so good about being a hobo that you would want a whole country of them?
>Have you ever told a lie? You're a sinner, and the punishment for sin is eternity in hell.
you will burn in hell then, have fun
That's why I think it has to be proven on a quantum level. Is this a simulation. Is something going on in our brains using outside power sources? A field of some sort?
I can also imagine our brains as just inert bio-matter as well.
I think we could determine which in the near future with new technology. Prove atheism, or deism forever.
What do you mean God's hand was forced? God set the rules for us, and we as human being are imperfect.
We will always sin, and the Bible says, "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God" -- but while we are yet sinners, God sent his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish, but have ever lasting life.
Seriously, all you have to do is put your faith in Jesus to be saved. It's his free gift to you. Jesus even said that salvation is as easy as walking through a door or drinking a glass of water. Not that hard!
A same thing any fanatic of any of tens of thousands of religious sects would tell about their little holy scriptures at any point of human history. A problem is they can't possibly be all right.
Nope, I have Jesus as my savior. Do you? Or do you want to pay for your sins?
Never mind, just realized the irony of asking that to a Russian.
>how can free will exist without God?
It's a property of this existence, or an illusion of the human mind. Either way it doesn't matter because we all behave ourselves as if it exists and that is what is important.
>how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
It didn't
>why was the Bible ahead of science?
because science came out of natural philosophy, which came out of religious beliefs
>how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises of the Old Testament?
it was written to be fulfilled. and they are both stories, not actual accounts
>how can morality exist without God?
it is adequately explained through social biological development
>how can the universe come into existence without God?
who the fuck knows
>you are required to answer all of these 6 questions to our satisfaction
>our satisfaction
So you are just going to throw a tantrum until everyone responds to you and parrots exactly what you believe? The only worthwhile or thought provoking questions are 1 and 5. Your inclusion of idiotic literal interpretations of the bible shows how asinine this thread is. This thread is pointless and tries to paint atheists as immoral, while at the same time missing the point of religious symbolism. You aren't living in a fan fiction of the world where everything is perfectly explained.
God is love, but God is also justice. He's a judge, and he has stated that the wages of sin is death. I believe that Hell is a metaphor extracted from the Greek culture, as it was described differently in the Old Testament (as an abyss, that is).
>answer my questions to my satisfaction
pro tip, he will never be satisfied with an answer
play the same game: provide proof of the existence of god that meets my satisfaction
>BUT, luckily for us, Jesus Christ died for our sins, and all we have to do is accept His free gift of salvation in order to NOT go to heaven.
So you can't sin then? Why haven't you killed someone today, if you are forever free of sin?
>Christian Church impeded scientific progress
That's fake news, comrade, Christianity did way more to move science forward than it did to slow it down.
nothing you have to say will make me believe in a magical sky wizard. sorry kid
So we should be grateful that God sent jesus so we can be saved from the hell he created?
T-thanks God
If god knows everything that will ever happen, did he know what Satan would do before he created him?
How do you know god is good unless you gave a standard to which you can judge god of being either good or bad? Meaning you had morality before you learned about god not because you learned of god.
Are you sure about that? You sound like you're on the fence already because you're scared of giving us a chance.
>t. non-lurkers
Why are you so focused on Jesus being a hobo? How is that the most important part of his story?
You don't get to be xenophobic while using a meme flag, Ahmed.
lel yeah if hell doesn't exist then it's fine but your type of "Christanity" is like 0,3% of the religion
Okay then, what caused the big bang and how were the laws of physics created?
God is trying to perfect his creation. In some way or another, Man failed God. And his new approach is to let us figure out the journey, as giving us directions would defeat the destination. It's a filter. Evil returns to hell and Good rebuilds the earth.
>So we should be grateful that God sent jesus so we can be saved from the hell he created?
We absolutely should.
I don't understand why you're trying to impute your own morality on God. If God tells you what is right and what is wrong, who are you to tell God that what God did was wrong?
God sent Jesus to save us, and he did it DESPITE us being sinners. He gave us a second chance.
It's just a joke, comrade.
I'm focusing on Jesus being a hobo because that's what he was. Sure you could use his teachings to create moral robots, but to make them 100% Christlike wouldn't be productive.
You can't prove God exists, somebody who uses logic knows a "morally" just God can't exists as well. So people who don't believe in God do so because it's irrational to believe in something you can't prove exists. Everybody is agnostic at heart, we'll believe, just as long as you show us empirical evidence. But until then it doesn't make sense to believe in a all powerful being or beings that control everything and has always been and always will be.
Will fill this out because im bored, Not an atheist though. Im an Agnost. I will never believe in any form of organized religion though i can tell you that much.
>1) how can free will exist without God?
The concept of free will is complex. Does a bacteria moving around and doing what it needs to do count as free will? Call me dumb but i think none of us (Humans) grasp the true definition of free will.
>2) how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
Prophecies can be super vague and thus things that have a diffrent meaning can be interpertated diffrently and thus can be applied to things that might seem relevant. Or that things are simpely just going to happen regardless. For example : "One day a giant meteor will slam the earth and destroy it" Well likely, Maybe in a billion years, Maybe the earth already died prior yadda yadda. Some things will just happen.
>3) why was the Bible ahead of science?
Organized religion represses science, See the middle ages.
>4) how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises o
f the Old Testament?
I do not know what Jesus his promises were. Though i always found the concept of him dying for our sins kinda silly since sodom and gammorah is literally everywhere. If interpertated in my way then it seems like he died for nothing since that is so rampant nowadays.
>5) how can morality exist without God?
I think one does not need god or religion to be a good person. I have had Christians, Muslims and literally a couple weeks ago buddhist trying to convert me to their cult. Thinking it will give me morals and improve my beeing. I never believed in god and grew up in a family giving me full choice of what i want to be. But stil they thought me right from wrong. And i think one does not need god to wish to be a good person and live up to their fullest potential to attempt to do as much good as possible.
>6) how can the universe come into existence without God?
How can god come into exsistance? And so on.
>I don't understand why you're trying to impute your own morality on God.
It's the only morality I know
Well thanks though you tried. But sending people to eternal hellfire is something I can't get behind
1) how can free will exist without God?
I don't even believe in free will you fucking pleb
You lost, fuck off christcuck.
>It's a property of this existence, or an illusion of the human mind. Either way it doesn't matter
If it is an illusion, we should not care about morality, or laws, or punishment, or death. If free will does not exist, then we're all just particles reacting to our environment. Lunacy.
>It didn't
Wrong.
>because science came out of natural philosophy, which came out of religious beliefs
Correct. I agree.
>it was written to be fulfilled. and they are both stories, not actual accounts
Even atheist historians agree on most details about Jesus' life. We know Jesus was real.
>it is adequately explained through social biological development
Socio-biological development doesn't dictate objective morality. Natural morality tells us to rape women and create harems. We're better than that because God gave us morality.
>who the fuck knows
I know. God created it, as explained in Genesis 1:1.
>So you are just going to throw a tantrum until everyone responds to you and parrots exactly what you believe?
Absolutely not, but these are pivotal questions that Christians have had proper answers to for thousands of years, but atheists struggle to even comprehend. Someone is right here.
>You can't prove God exists
Never mind the others; only Christianity has to be right.
This move to a cashless society is one of them.
>Never mind the others
Do you suggest becoming blind to reality?
>only Christianity has to be right.
There is desperation in this statement.
>But sending people to eternal hellfire is something I can't get behind
If you don't like hellfire, get behind Jesus.
You can't just say that you dislike the "concept". God doesn't care if you dislike the concept. The Bible teaches that the punishment for sin is hell regardless of whether you like it or not. Guess why I'm giving you the gospel.
Actually it's an act of mercy; there's one place which is a thousand times worse for evil doers.
Not "my type" man, the Bible never gave a full description of what Hell is. Every branch of christianity has its own set of beliefs regarding the matter: the adventists for example doesn't believe in Hell, because, as you said, it is impossible that a God of love would make souls suffer for the eternity.
Another theory states that Hell is not fire or direct suffering, but the absence of God's presence, which causes every creature to suffer. In Revelations it was described that the sinners would be left outside of New Jerusalem (i.e. away from God's presence), and there they'd suffer.
Guys, I really want to clean my hand, why is no one helping me?
1) how can free will exist without God?
Because of religious limitations. Not the god itself.
You absolute fucking morons.
Nobody of serious believes in free will.
Humans behave according to the limits you give them. But these limits have no direct link with any god, only their founders on earth.
Your first point is shit.
And that's why I won't bother with the rest. Learn to debate.
1a) prove free will exists, I remain unbelieving about either free will or determinism.
1b) wouldn't an all knowing creator and causality prove free will doesn't exist and is only perceptual?
2a) how do we know that those passages weren't added after the fact?
2b) how precise were they, and how likely?
3) I have not seen evidence of this and am not qualified to speak on it, what is the definition is science in this question?
4a) How did he?
4b) Can we see contemporary written accounts by unbiased sources showing he existed and did those things rather than them being attributed after the fact?
5) How does morality exist with God? Is God subservient to Goodness in order for His actions to be good or are they good by His whim?
6) How does adding God solve creation? Neither of us are astrophysicists and no one has ever encountered actual "nothing" so neither of us are capable of commenting on it beyond uninformed conjecture and arguments from authority.
I hope you can understand how seriously I am taking your offer of serious discussion. I am willing to and would like to have my belief restored to me but simply am not able to make myself believe something.
>If it is an illusion, we should not care about morality, or laws, or punishment, or death. If free will does not exist, then we're all just particles reacting to our environment. Lunacy.
Your morality is already imbued into you, you don't need to care about it.
Do a little experiment. Choose to be a sadistic murderer right now and prove you have free will. Don't act on it though, just choose to be a person with no moral qualms. Choose to be someone who would kill another human being just for pleasure. You can't do it, unless you were born fucked up.
Free will doesn't exist with or without God.
>Murder and stealing is wrong because God says so, not because man said so.
Maybe in your backward imaginary Christian kingdom. In a modern democracy, murder and stealing are wrong because the law says so, and the law says so because the MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE says so. The consensus among literate people is enough source of morality, and fuck your kike god.
Christcucks BTFO!!
>God doesn't care if you dislike the concept. The Bible teaches that the punishment for sin is hell regardless of whether you like it or not.
Your "god" character sucks. A God who would, simply, eliminate people who go to hell, would objectively be more benevolent. Hell, he would simply be not malevolent like the Christian one.
Watch out to see if there is a move to merge all "religions" and "faiths" into a single one world religion.
>The concept of free will is complex. Does a bacteria moving around and doing what it needs to do count as free will? Call me dumb but i think none of us (Humans) grasp the true definition of free will.
No, because animals do not have free will. God gave us human beings free will.
>Prophecies can be super vague
Yeah, but the Bible prophesies are pretty precise. Look at my picture.
>Organized religion represses science, See the middle ages.
That's a damn lie. Christianity laid the foundation for science, and the Bible laid the foundation for the scientific method of reproducible experimental results. The Catholic church founded the university system of higher institutionalized learning.
>I do not know what Jesus his promises were.
For example, Jesus said that the Jewish temple would be destroyed and that the Jews would be scattered across the world -- guess what happened shortly after Jesus died? The Romans razed the Jewish temple and scattered the Jews from Israel and Judea... This is a real historical event.
>How can god come into exsistance?
He is eternal. The Bible teaches that God is the beginning and the end, alpha and omega. God exists outside of space and time.
>the null hypothesis spook
Hear me out for a while.
1: Free will doesn't exist. Every choice we make is done so by a natural process of execution. All other possible 'options' were not part of this process, and so don't come to our attention.
2: Every piece of writing, if written in vague language, can later be claimed to have perfectly predicted the future. For example: Daniel 8 verses 3 to 12 state how Greece is predicted to rise to a great empire and break into 4, yet this is only known because we interpret it as such.
3: It may have been similar to how, when we write about the future, we often like to imagine the future in ways that (if we're lucky) serve as inspiration for actual scientists from the future.
4: If people were confident enough that he was the messiah, the prophecys regarding him would have reached him in the form of whispers and rumours, told by excited people around him. Sub-consciously, this could have set him up to attempt and succeed in completing these prophecies.
5: Morality is artificial. A species core instinct is to survive, so they will make agreements not to kill each other, or to violently attack it's brothers or reproductive partners.
6: Nobody knows for sure. Hell, if there's a God, I'd doubt even he'd know.
>the Bible never gave a full description of what Hell is
Eternal hellfire. Good enough for you?
The Adventists wrote their own Bible version and removed hell, now people are "destroyed" instead. Stop bringing up weird cults and discuss actual Biblical Christianity.
Reminder.
1) neither exist
2) it didn't. you're delusional.
3) you and i both know this isn't true
4) ??
5) are you implying humans would be emotionless, non-empathetic voids if religion didn't exist?
6) big bang
Where's the empirical evidence?
Religion is a spook. There is nothing to debate over.
>Rick and Mortyfag enters the thread
Lol, that's how people lived thousands of years ago. I don't think you understand that the morality we are imbued with comes from 2000 years of civilization.
If you lived in some small tribe in Norway 3000 years ago, there would be tribal warlords with harems and murder.
Free will can ONLY exist with God, because he can give us free will on our timeline.
christian here
>how can the bible have predicted the future with such accuracy?
most of it is vague passages,nearly any event in history can be biblical if you try hard enough
>If it is an illusion, we should not care about morality, or laws, or punishment, or death.
We should care because doing so allowed us to build this civilization. This is morality, and I believe in morality.
>If free will does not exist, then we're all just particles reacting to our environment. Lunacy.
You seem to think that I don't believe in free will. I do, I just don't attribute it to some incorporeal essence or other metaphysical explanation. If you want to explain it to yourself in that way, OK, but the way I see it is that the function of the human brain allows for free will.
>muh jesus was a real person
Even if he was, the point of the story is not that there was a literal person you should worship, but there is an archetype that we fulfill when we act morally.
>Socio-biological development doesn't dictate objective morality.
Our biology DOES dictate our behavior. Being driven by chemical reactions doesn't abdicate us from responsibility, there is no need for a metaphysical being. We can have morality and also be products of determinism, that is the human condition.
>Natural morality tells us to rape women and create harems.
It tells primates living in the jungle to do that. It's culture, social evolution, that makes us better than that.
Even if we assume a conscious God did create the universe (which I can't really argue against), how does that tie in to any of the countless religions created through history? Why would the existence of a Demiurge imply the veracity of, say, the Christian Bible?
I was going to say the same stuff but said to myself no, religious fanatics don't listen to reason.
You must be new, this debate has already been had for years and, Christianity always loses.
1. It doesnt
2. It hasnt
3. It isnt
4. He didnt
5. Its existence proves that alone
6. See 5
>rainbow faggot
>self proclaimed alt right
>posting for a year
faggot nigger to the 3rd degree. Neck yourself
>triggered spaghetti worshipper
Do you need a safe space brumpcuck?
>I am asking for your opinions on morality
>I don't like your opinions
>haha looks like I win again
>The Bible teaches that the punishment for sin is hell regardless of whether you like it or not.
Well I don't like it. So I guess I'll burn. 1000 times worse than hell?I'm aware of annilihationism or whatever it's called which is what I mentioned in my first post. But that is not Christianity and no one on Sup Forums wishes to go join some proddie LGBT feel good church. Eternity without God makes for a better theology than burning for eternity but that's not Christianity
The universe and the Bible.
I'm curious, where do Catholics fit in, according to Sup Forums are people like me considered Christian, or do we get some sort of outsider classification. Seriously not trolling its just that I have debates with Christians irl and have been classified all over the place depending on who I'm talking to. So what's Sup Forums stance on this?
question. There are THOUSANDS, maybe even MILLIONS of other gods worshipped by other cultures. How do you know your god is the one true God, despite lack of sufficient evidence?
I'm bored so I'll bite.
>1) how can free will exist without God?
A deity is not a prerequisite for free will, I don't know how you came to this conclusion but it's wrong.
>2) how can the Bible have predicted the future with perfect accuracy?
It didn't, you're just making connection that don't actually exist while ignoring details that don't support your claims. See Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
>3) why was the Bible ahead of science?
A greek philosopher named Democritus predicted that matter was constructed out of atoms, he had know way of knowing this for certain which makes his "prediction" little more than a lucky guess. Same goes for the bible.
>4) how did Jesus fulfill the exact promises of the Old Testament?
He didn't?
>5) how can morality exist without God?
It exists because we want it to. Human concepts like mercy, justice etc. aren't actually real unless we say that they are.
>6) how can the universe come into existence without God?
Good question. If everything was created by something then what created God?
0/10 OP at least give us some good questions. Hell I'm not even Atheist and these are lame.
He is right regarding morality.
Christcuck morality is omnipresent to the point where the average pleb takes it for granted.
Don't get it twisted pleb. He is right on that, got to give him that.
Think of it like this, In the natural state being a sociopath is a must. We came a long way from there and the weak and the submitted got to spread their genes until xcucknity.
Christian, but LARPing as a crusader