I've come up with a simple proof of a fairly obvious contradiction in leftist ideology. I think it has the potential to trigger cognitive dissonance and I'd appreciate it if any anons with knowledge in symbolic logic could present it better.
Proposition 1: Different cultures value certain things differently (e.g. Christian cultures value chastity more than African tribal cultures).
Proposition 2: People's values determine how successful they are in society (e.g. someone who values mathematics will likely earn more than someone who values tap-dancing).
If these propositions are accepted then it follows that in a multicultural society we should not expect an equality of outcomes for the various sub-cultural groups.
using logic, facts, argument, debate, or reasoning doesn't work on leftists. That's WHY they're leftist. The only way to reach a leftist are emotional appeals that also serve their narcissistic ego's.
Gavin Perry
We can make them look stupid in the eyes of moderates though
Sebastian Thompson
It is indeed an accurate assessment, but frankly to me it seems as though it's fairly pointless to debate with the left anymore. In all honesty, if they were willing/able to use logic, then the entire debate would be a moot point today. Leftism is one of those things that's not unlike the Luddite movement in your country. It was a debate over the speculative outcome of an item in society. However where this comparison ends, is when you can observe that after the Luddites were proven wrong, they disbanded mostly. However since the time of Marx, leftist thought has been proven faulty with both the successes of capitalism, and with the many failures of Marxist systems. In that sense it's no longer a debate, as now you're dealing with proven facts. At such a point, one has to wonder "where do we go from here?". From what I've seen, it seems more, and more like violence will be the only solution.
Jack Roberts
S K Y D A S K Y D A S
Christopher Butler
But surely there's hope for some of the less fanatical leftists? People tend to get more conservative as they age so surely rational arguments must be able to have some effect?
Kevin Morris
Boot on the back of the neck.
Wyatt Martin
I'd still try it, but if we're to asses the situation realistically, it does seem prudent to prepare for war. Of course, whenever one prepares for war, they should always hope for peace.
Matthew Phillips
Yeah, I really hope you're wrong. I guess I'll go sharpen my butter knives
Carter Roberts
>Die with your rage Guys, we have a live one!
Carter Evans
>it's fairly pointless to debate with the left anymore
You're characterising individuals as being the same as a group, but this doesn't follow logically. What you're referring to is a movement that has stuck its head in the sand for a few decades - however some of its members wouldn't even be two decades old.
There are many members of the youth, particularly Gen Z, who have only ever been taught that diversity and ethnic displacement is a good thing. They have never heard our perspective, worse yet, it has been demonised in their eyes.
For these people, they haven't been denying the right like you characterise them to have - they've only just really gotten around to understanding politics, even if their movement has done so. These arguments are important for these people.
Like OP () says, moderates are more willing to listen - and getting the everyman on our side helps. Even 'Sarcuck of blackdad' agrees with most of the right's talking points, even though he is commonly criticised for being too centrist, for example.
Matthew Jackson
It's odd to hear people from outside the US talking about how cucked gen z is. They're actually pretty based here in the US. Most of the ones I've met are at least center right.
Julian Collins
>It's odd to hear people from outside the US talking about how cucked gen z is
I wouldn't even necessarily say that they were left-wing generally, although I don't have any evidence to support this claim.
Really, the main reason why they're right wing, at least in the US, I would argue, is because of their easy access to the internet and other less mainstream views. I would further argue that what has made them /ourguys/ were the arguments that they've been exposed to because of this. So the more of these arguments, the better. As is said here, 'the left can't meme', and it's damn true.
There's not a chance in hell, for example, that I ever would have become a race realist if it were not for the internet. There simply would have been noway I could have come into contact with information regarding genetic diversity and variations in skull shape, etc. in order to adopt this view. I would have thought that only radicalist fringes of society could buy into something so archaic and politically incorrect.
But in all seriousness your newest generation of whites is god-tier. I think that I saw one international study in which they marginally outperformed Asian Americans and beat out Japan. If it wasn't for the backbreaking welfare they'll have to contribute a fair amount of their earnings to, I'd expect great things from them.
Ryan Diaz
Ummm... Define what is math..? And how is it NOT racist?
Daniel Rivera
*study of international test results
Forgot pic regarding crippling welfare
Jordan Diaz
if people are different only becasuse of the culture they come from, then it would enough to just reteach them. this is a civic nationalistic view that will make you lose any debate over limiting immigration because at the end you will need to agree to the fact that if you were to increase "eductaion" then immigration would work. of course we all know that this is BS, but the reason is not cultural, its ethnic.
Nathan Gutierrez
>...this is BS, but the reason is not cultural, its ethnic. *because not but.
Mason White
I know. My point was though to present two propositions that leftists should agree are true and then show them that they contradict with their ideas of equality of outcome. If race wasn't real then the left should be supporting a mono-culture to equalize outcomes rather than multiculturalism.
Adrian Nguyen
Kind of.
This argument may not work well in that context, but it'd be quite effective as a counter-argument against the concept of multiculturalism.
Here in Southern Land, it isn't argued that immigration is good despite multiculturalism - it's argued that it's good by virtue of the fact that it'll bring many different ways of living into the same country, and this somehow makes it stronger.
Pointing out that different ways of life necessitate different outcomes in terms of educational achievement, criminality, wealth, etc. is pretty damning then.
Although you are right in that I wouldn't want this to be my bread and butter going into a debate.
Zachary Allen
Upon which the leftist will indulge in emotion, convincing the moderate he/she isn't a shitcake. Moderates trust their feelings too. The key is getting them to understand that emotion doesn't change the facts or their effects.
Owen Allen
>OP posts spock pic >half of Sup Forums suddenly talks like spock >we wuz vulcans whyte bois all be closet trekkies, sheeeeit
Nathan Myers
That's one of the reasons I was hoping that an user with better knowledge of formal logic could tighten up my argument. If it's logic is solid then it might cause enough cognitive dissonance to cause anger rather than any appealing emotions
Lincoln Ortiz
Well one thing that you can ask is >would you conform to black culture if they demanded it? Moderates will typically say no to that. If they do, it follows that in the same way they can't be expected to become part of black or arab culture, blacks and arabs can't be expected to become part of our culture, and that maybe to best serve their cultures they ought to have their own community, their own society, their own country, and live there instead. They would surely be happier there where they are most comfortable, and the West is not that place.
You could argue that they will have the best outcome in a country where their personal beliefs and the national culture are in harmony, money no object. And again, in the same way that arabs and blacks have their rights to those places which readily exist, in an equal world whites have the same right to such countries. Considering the world isn't an equal place and that vested interests are working hard to deny us that right, we whites are justified in doing everything necessary to conquer and protect that right, whatever the costs may be.
Luke Thomas
That's a good argument. I managed to get a leftist to accept that both Europe and the refugees would be better off if we paid Islamic countries to take them in using similar arguments about how they wouldn't face such large cultural barriers. So that's a step in the right direction.
Adrian Parker
>lues tap-dancing). >If these propositions are accepted then it follows that in a multicultural society we should not expect an equality of outcomes for the various sub-cultural groups.
Even in a homogeneous society we should not accept equal outcomes. The concept of "Bolshevik Creationism" (read the book The Revolt Against Civilization) holds that the state, given enough resources can create the perfect citizen. This is the foundation of all other liberal/Marxist social policy fantasy.
In truth, this is completely against nature and against the very idea of natural selection and against even creationist religion (the parable of the talents) suggests that not all have equal ability.
You know people in your own life as examples. Some guys are natural artists, musicians, or athletes; these things come to them with ease, other folks are just dull witted or lazy and no amount of handouts or "programs" will be able to change their abilities. Some people are tall, some are short, some smart, and some dumb. Some even born blind or deaf. You cannot legislate away inequality short of punishing or handicapping the exceptional.
>If it's logic is solid then it might cause enough cognitive dissonance to cause anger rather than any appealing emotions
Implying that leftism/liberalism/Marxism isn't a religion and you will overcome that with reason or facts. Most of the true believers are beyond hope, the rest cannot be told but they must be made to feel and live with the consequences.
Liam James
You notice how he's still played by kiles
Jose Scott
we already do that it is why we are winning.
Nolan Martin
Religions have apostates.
Levi Long
Propsition 2 is weak and needs refinement.
You need hard, specific examples of values leading to different outcomes, preferably ones that leftists will agree with.
You also need to distinguish between values at the individual and societal level.
And you should test all the various "but it's actually racisim". "The difference in values is just an excuse for racisim", narratives, preferably with specific examples again.
Aiden Howard
Europe would likely be better off, but the refugees and the countries of asylum wouldn't. Joblessnes - due to retarded demographic booms and, in the case of Syria, liberalising reforms - was a big factor in the Arab Spring revolts, so adding more low-skilled guys to a large crowd of angry unemployed Arabs looking for someone to blame is throwing oil in the fire
Josiah Fisher
Its much more simple.Liberals absolutely love cats,they are infected with toxoplasmosis,thats why they are unaware of the dangers in what they do.
Jayden Turner
Thanks for the link. I don't believe at all that equal outcomes are possible or even desirable. I'm trying to form an argument in their terms which demonstrates that it's untenable to expect, say, blacks and asians to have equal median incomes in a society in which racism doesn't exist.
Nicholas Bailey
Yeah it's not a great solution, but at the moment I'm willing to entertain any ideas that might stem the flow of migrants into Europe.
Jeremiah Brooks
Thanks. I'll have to steer clear of degree choices. I've angered people in the past simply for saying STEM degrees are worth more financially than arts degrees.
Kevin Martin
kek They have smaller amygdalae too which produces a similar result
