So, can we talk about gurren laggan's ending (and the series as a whole)? I didn't really like it, the anime is a dumb, exaggerated and over the top mecha series with an upbeat tone and you end it in such a depressing way? If you're going to have a series that doesn't take itself seriously at all, why don't get it a happy ending that fits it better, and don't get me wrong, i love Cowboy Bebop and Berserk so i don't mind sad endings at all, but it just doesn't fit the tone of the series in my opinion.
I hated Nia and i thought she wasn't more than a plot device, but her death (and everyone surrounding her being an anti-spiral messenger) felt dumb and forced, cheap drama.
The final fight was great tho, really fucking fun to watch.
Also, i hated the excessive amount of Deus Ex Machina and convince throughout the series.
So, can we talk about gurren laggan's ending (and the series as a whole)? I didn't really like it, the anime is a dumb...
Everything*
Convenience*
that is not a depressing ending
It's a happy ending
Tell simon that.
.maybe i didn't explain myself to well, it was not a "sad" ending per se, but it felt really sad and
depressing in comparison, mostly Simon's part.
And, as i said, Nia's death was unnecessary, forced and dumb, and them "living happily ever after" being as chiche as it sounds would have been a better ending.
Or talking Nia out of the series and changing half of the story so it doesn't involve her.
>If you're going to have a series that doesn't take itself seriously at all
Gurren Lagann took itself pretty damn seriously.
Why was it forced and dumb
Nia is just a plot device who cares about her. It was important for her to die so that Simon can finish growing up.
She's an anti spiral she has no place in the world anymore.
Well, Nia's character itself is bad, she's only there to move the plot forward so she has no value as a character, she doesn't change or develop and she has no dept.
In the first half she's the reason why Simon gets out of his depression and in the second half she's the damsel in distress.
About the death itself, it wasn't necessary and it was just a dumb way to shove drama and sadness diwn our throats.
Overall the series was quite fun and easily a 7/10, but things such as Nia, killing off minor characters for shock factor (episode 24 and maybe 25) or DEM bothers me a lof.
The ending is great but there really is no reason at that point for Simon and Yoko to not end up together
Yeah, I din't give a fuck for anyone but simon and the show went to shit after it didn't know how to capitalize on kamina's death.
It was never meant to be. She was always Kamina's girl.
Berserk has a happy ending.
We haven't seen it yet but it's a confirmed happy end.
Also GL did take itself seriously, and has a lot of sad parts, the ending was the least sad thing in the entire fucking series.
I was talking about the Eclipse.
But everyone that she kissed ended up dying.
>it's another "faggot thinks he's knowledgeable about writing because of how many buzzwords he knows" episode
Which isn't the ending you retard. It's literally 1/10th through the manga and the anime continues after it.
My god you are such a retard.
Nia was a plot device, and a very necessary one.
Simon needed someone who was a complete outsider to the Dai-Gurren-dan, with no concept of who Kamina was or why everyone thought he was so crucial to the team's identity and success. Simon wasn't going to hear what he needed to hear from anyone who was comparing him to Kamina, whether consciously (Kittan) or subconsciously (Yoko). The fact that Nia also had no real concept of a human life at all was just cranking this up to an extreme, but was also useful for its own reasons.
Simon also needed someone to remind him that he had something to protect. A cute love interest who supports him is a pretty easy and effective way to do so.
Oh, believe me, i don', but even i can spot extremely obvious flaws.
Also, shitposting and mutual insults aside, I've heard there's a new lupin III series (or movie, I'm not sure), should be watch that or the original?or, even a more fundamental question, is lupin III any good? sincerely and afraid of sounding like an asshole or a newfag (wich i actually am), the old art style and limited animation turns me off a little
>the anime is a dumb, exaggerated and over the top mecha series with an upbeat tone
Which was great
>and you end it in such a depressing way?
Kinda agree on this, but I found it far more stupid that they didn't search for any way to save Nia. I mean I understand the whole "death of the universe" and "don't abuse spiral power" thing, but wasn't the entire series about fighting fate and that kind of shit in the first place?
The ending made me feel like the anime surrendered on itself by then, they should have found a way to preserve the universe AND save Nia thus keeping this spirit of "doing the impossible" intact.
But no looks like they can't do the impossible, they can't fight the power, only bow down and let a comrade die.
There's something called anime, Berserk has one, and that's were it ends.
Of course, I'm currently reading the manga too.
I'd say it's best to start with Castle of Cagliostro to get a good feel for how the series is and have an example of the best it has to offer. Then you should try to watch from the original on up. The original changed directors part of the way through so after around episode ten or so, there's a notable change in how it feels but the stuff before it can still be enjoyable. Just go into it with an open mind.
If you mean "Lupin, the italian adventure" stay away from it. Like, far away.
Why would you say that?
Because it sucks. It's a very weird story about Lupin doing anything but stealing, getting caught up in a series of lame situations (like teaching at school or getting chased by a supermodel actress) and eventually fighting Leonardo da Vinci in some weird drug induced scenario.
There are far better seasons of Lupin that that turd.
Berserk anime doesn't end you retard.
Nobody said you had to love it, some people do, some people don't, the earth keeps on spinning.
There's not that much subtext or hidden meaning or anything, so unless you were half asleep or not paying attention while watching it, there is no amount of explanation which will improve your subjective enjoyment of it, and that's perfectly fine; every genre and every show isn't for everyone; nothing is truly universally acclaimed.
Yoko and Simon recognized that it would be plain wrong to do so. If you start bringing people back, they just get in the way of the new generation.
That's an understandable perspective to take, I suppose. I tend to prefer the Lupin episodes and movies that deal with his stealing as well however I wouldn't say that Lupin Part IV is something that should be avoided. I'd say that there's far worse in the series than that such as a lot of early and later Part II episodes and quite a lot of the specials such as Jigen's Gravestone, which while it looked nice, felt like a stretched out, more mediocre Part II episode.
Which is exactly why it's such a bullshit excuse, Nia's a special existance, not normal people. She's a single case amongst the billions, the reason why she disappears is because she needed energy to keep going so all they had to do was spare a scrap of energy and refill her drained batteries or something.
It's not like we're talking of bringing Kamina back from ashes or random guys from being deceased carcasses, just stabilizing her with a plug or something. How does this set a bad precedent when she's literally the only case in the universe?
Sorry but as much as I liked TTGL the ending was a massive coup-out for the sake of cheap sadness (together with Simon becoming a hobo).
I didnt like the ending too, like beetween the thousands of people on the world, nia was the spiral messenger, a discarded object that should have died WAS the messenger, too forced, she should have died on battle or something, not just some random lottery
>Nia is disappearing
>they know, she knows
>untold amounts of power at their disposal
>just watch her fade
>fade
>aaaand she's gone
>"can't resurrect her, bringing people back from the dead would spell spiral nemesis"
GEE WEE MAYBE IF YOU MOVED YOUR ASS A BIT EARLIER YOU WOULDN'T HAVE TO **RESURRECT** ANYONE
Seriously, ending felt like watching someone dying of blood loss near a blood donation machine with all the tubes and bags ready only to do jack shit and complain about the cruel world afterwards.
They didn't save her from dying because if they did, then they'd be obligated to do so with everyone else who's dying or has died. They don't do this because if they used spiral energy irresponsibly, then they'd trigger Spiral Nemesis. This is a metaphor for how power should be used responsibly for the good of everyone rather than for selfish reasons.
I agree that it was forced and dumb, but regardless of HOW it ended, the way it ended was still fitting in tone with the rest of the series and really rounded out Simon's character.
The overall point? Things happen in life that sucks, but we can either wallow in the fact or find happiness in the memories and move on--try and find a way to apply what you learned to the betterment of yourself and others. Building a foundation on those memories is how we give tribute to and immortalize others.
>They didn't save her from dying because if they did, then they'd be obligated to do so with everyone else who's dying or has died.
Which is why it makes no sense. Nia's a Spiral Messenger and fabricated entity, not a normal human dying of natural causes. The correlation is completely faulty.
that's retarded
like "eating 50 pizza pies at once is unhealthy, so i can never have a slice" retarded
Of course it's retarded. These are retards defending Gurren Lagann's terrible writing so they have to make mental gymnastics, like G-Reco fans do to explain stupid shit away
You are just giving strength to the point of not resurrect.
>If Simon can do it, why not me? I think I'll starting gathering spiral power so I can live forever
Best not to start down that road and live normal lives
Are you incapable of reading text or something?
Nia is not human. She's disappearing because she's half fake and that side is vanishing. She's a special case.
Saving her doesn't mean having to save every 90year old grandpa or guys with tubercholosis, this jump of logic makes no sense.
Everyone would think their own case is special....
Imagine if Nia was a robot and they refused to repair her because
>then we'd have to repair every single non-robot dead human being in the universe
Sorry bro but it's fucking retarded.
Untreated cancer is a death sentence and trying to stop death is wrong so all you cancer patients can just die because it would be wrong to treat you.
>Let's abuse Spiral Power for our own personal wants just this once, what could go wrong?
>Hey, those guys abused Spiral Power for their own personal wants just once, we'll do it too, just this once. What could go wrong?
If you think Simon and Co. are the only spiral warriors in the universe you must have been having a brain aneurysm while trying to watch the show.
>repairing a robot requires Spiral Power
No, you fucking idiot.
>treating cancer requires Spiral Power
No, you fucking idiot.
>trying to stop death is wrong
No, you fucking idiot.
The only way to do it to use a godlike amount of spiral power.
The only comparison would be if you had to detonate the Tsar Bomba to restart the Robot's fusion core in the middle of cold war Russia.
You can call a doctor anytime, it's not about that...
They already caused more long term harm for the universe by killing the anitspiral and letting every spiral race grow in population. Allowing Nia to live a human lifespan is small shit compared to that.
>The only way to do it to use a godlike amount of spiral power
Source? Because for all we know the reason behind her disappearance is what the Antispiral sucked out before Simon arrived, meaning that she would need a pretty little amount of energy to return being 100% and safe.
How does this correlate to "having to resurrect every dead person in the universe" completely eludes me.
>If you think Simon and Co. are the only spiral warriors in the universe you must have been having a brain aneurysm while trying to watch the show.
There's so many faults with this reasoning.
First, those guys wouldn't have a Spiral Messenger comrade in arms who needs help;
Second, they wouldn't even know it if Simon helped Nia during the FUCKING 30 DAYS WAIT BEFORE HER DEATH;
Third, they could have done this BEFORE SHE DIED, thus completely avoiding any "don't resurrect the dead" conflicts;
Fourth, they can't control what other spiral warriors do in the universe
Fifth, they already destroyed the Antispirals, so sparing Nia some recharge would've been little in the grand plan of things
I could keep going.... but yeah, it was just forced.
Besides the Lupin discussion, I fucking hate this thread. You shits should go back and rewatch the show and take in the messages the show's trying to relay to you instead of nitpicking about it being "forced" without understanding what it's getting at and misunderstanding everyone who attempts to help you understand.
Everyone understand the ending's message. Problem is, it makes no sense.
They don't "fight the power", they abide to it in the end.
They don't help Nia despite both her state and condition being completely unique in the entirety of the universe and requiring little effort to fix.
And he becomes a hobo because... reasons.
>Problem is, it makes no sense.
No, you just don't agree with it. It makes perfect sense.
The most powerful spiral being in the universe right chose not to exercise his power as an example.
Was it necessary? Maybe. maybe not. You hardheads are missing the point. He did more than was necessary to ensure that spiral nemesis wouldn't occur. He left the diplomacy and such to those more fitting to the tasks.
I hope you realize that this studio is famous for pulling out shocking shit endings for the sake of drama (looking at you P&S).
TTGL was a very great ride but the ending just makes no sense in lieux of the episodes that lead to it.
They spend the entire story talking about smashing barriers, defying fate and fighting the power, yet by the end of the arc they cave in letting the one team member they wanted to save die, with a very big jump in logic to justify it.
I mean you don't need to be Shirou to realize that saving a girl from "one-time limited magical cancer" is kinda different than resurrecting people all over the universe.
Imagine if, say, the Antispirals infected Yoko with a spiral shit disease that would kill her in days. Would it be alright to let her die because "muh spiral power abuse?".
Fuck no. They saved Earth from destruction abusing spiral power transformations like crazy, it's fucking war, save who you can and THEN after everything's done you can decide to let your power rest and let nature (as in real human beings and natural death) take its course.
I would have been able to accept everything else if thus fuck was beaten half to death and forced to beg in the streets.
Hee death was necessary to reinforce the shows theme, you goddamn retarded ape.
How can something like GL fly over your head so far? Goddamn.
He did literally nothing wrong
i was like man this is a 10/10 then episode 24 came. really felt i just wasted my time
>nia is partially made of anti-spiral energy
>it's an integral part of her being
>no amount of spiral energy can compensate for the lack of anti-spiral energy
>recreating her wouldn't preserve the original, only create a copy
>some people don't settle for copies
It's like you guys have a hard time figuring this out or something. Fucking hell.
>Show is entirely about "making the impossible possible"
>Ending of the show declares that "No, this thing was too impossible to make possible"
It was forced drama for the sake of forced drama. Just like when they murdered all the side characters for forced drama but you didn't fucking care because none of them had been fleshed out at all
All the lights in your eyes are stars
>Hee death was necessary to reinforce the shows theme, you goddamn retarded ape.
Everyone's been explaining how the ending actually contradicts the show's themes up until the very ending where it switches from "Row Row fight the power" to "Spiral Energy is bad".
>>Show is entirely about "making the impossible possible"
>>Ending of the show declares that "No, this thing was too impossible to make possible"
Fucking this, a million times.
It just sucked.
Nice fanfic.
How is that a depressing ending.
But she is made partially of anti-spiral energy. Anti-spiral energy is the antithesis to spiral energy. You think they can just ram enough spiral energy into her to replace that?
The whole show is about how the anti-spirals are the polar opposites of spirals. If an anti-spiral being could be sustained with spiral energy, then they wouldn't have had to blow the anti-spirals the fuck up, they could have just made friends with them.
Nia came apart because the anti-spiral energy that was a part of her being ceased to exist. They couldn't fix that with spiral energy or they would have. This is not a fucking debatable point. It happened, in the show, they said it explicitly and implicitly. If you don't like that, too bad for you.
>Rossiu
>Doing anything wrong
Holy shit you are retarded
>EXCUSE
The show's theme is overcoming the impossible. No matter what logic you try and dictate to defend the choice, by making a scenario where it is impossible to overcome the impossible, it shits over the shows theme and basically taints the entire show
Pretty much this desu.
It's also frustrating when they pull it out of their asses during the last fifteen minutes of the entire show to deliver some kind of emotional payoff.
Try explaining that to anyone who asks you to save another person.
>No, no, see, we just stabilized her, it's a subtle difference
They won't give a fuck.
If you took the ending of Panty and Stocking seriously you're straight up clinically retarded.
It has nothing to do with what's possible. It's easily possible. Point is, they mutually agreed upon it. Criticize that, if anything.
It has nothing to do with spiral power and everything to do with what Nia wanted.
Wandering hobo endings are the worst. They should of stuck with Ep1's ending.
This is just some massive headcanon you got and I really wish you'd stop citing it as some fact.
In fact the show directly contradicts you as Simon admits to have thought the possibility of saving Nia but did not to because muh abuse, not because it couldn't have been done.
So yeah, the possibility was totally available regardless.
It doesn't matter if Nia was real or not, or if it was possible or not.
Simon treats Nia as if she were human so she gets that treatment. You can't start messing with life and death.
>Point is, they mutually agreed upon it.
And it was legitimately retarded. Listen I understand the whole point of not wanting to misuse Spiral Energy, I really do, but why the fuck wouldn't they go and save their companion there? It's not like Nia was someone who was dying of old age or some other natural cause, it was a fabricated existance that had been recently damaged by the arch-fucking-villains and they could have fixed. That was nothing natural there they were interfering with.
>Overcoming the impossible is our thing!
>Except when it comes to saving the girl while preventing the Spiral Nemesis, whoops
In fact they even insult the Anti-Spirals on this
>"Haha you chose to shut yourself down and become monsters because you fear the death of the universe, that's YOUR limit!"
and then pull the same stunt on their comrade.
Guess that was the Dai Gurren limit.
Because they didn't want to. It has nothing to do with limits.
They didn't want to.
Yeah, I got that. And the reasoning behind it makes no fucking sense. Got it?
Yeah, go tell that to a medic.
It did. Because it's what the characters decided to do. There's literally no way you can argue that doesn't make sense, as much as you can argue what they choose to eat for breakfast "makes sense."
>But that's not what those characters would/should do!
There's nothing to support the argument that Simon and Nia couldn't agree to let her pass. Because they did. So that's what happens. So it makes sense.
Nia is cute.
Question: d you know what "reasoning" means?
What does that have to do with it? Their reasoning is whatever it is, if a character does something you don't expect or don't agree with it that doesn't make it wrong or nonsensical.
I cannot believe that it's been almost ten years and people still don't get TTGL's ending
In other words no. Reasoning means the logic behind a decision, not the decision itself.
Yes, that's what they chose. No the reasoning behind it makes no sense, still.
Everyone gets it, it's just fucking retarded and shits on every episode before those last 10 minutes.
No, you disagree with it.
It makes sense. It's fully coherent and rational. You just disagree with it.
That exactly means you don't get it.
>So it makes sense
So, in the event characters make absolutely stupid decisions for the sake of drama it has to make sense because that is what they've decided?
That makes no sense.
Nah bro, sorry.
See for a pretty accurate example of the reasoning behind this.
The anti-spirals had a good reasoning behind their choice, this doesn't. They're literally letting a comrade die to set an example that nobody's gonna ever know about, for a situation that's never going to repeat itself.
It's just braindead.
You're free to explain us how the massive contradiction between two dozen episodes of
>let's do the impossible
and those last 10 minutes of
>we can't do this
can cohexist. I doubt it though.
No. Nothing makes sense inherently by virtue of being what happens in a story.
It's just that, in this case, there's a:
Clear and logical progression of events
Series of decisions that do not conflict with past characterization or motivations
An end result that satisfies the themes of the narrative
Nothing happens that contradicts anything. Nothing happens that doesn't "make sense."
>Series of decisions that do not conflict with past characterization or motivations
Bullshit. If you get right down to it, it has nothing to do with ideology. It's just the choice of two people.
Plus, the pizza thing makes no sense. Not even a little. There's nothing morally wrong or right about eating one or fifty slices of pizza. There is with saving one person and then never anyone else.
They could do it.
They could have done it.
They chose not to.
Retard.
The actual theme is the same reason Kamina died. Same reason you see the two kids at the end in their own robots.
I must have missed the episode where the cast makes a rousing argument against euthanasia.
Uh, sorry for insulting you, by the way.
>The same reason Kamina died
No, Kamina died because he took lethal damage and wasn't able to get medical attention in time.
Nia also took lethal damage but they had the means and the time to heal her but chose NOT to.
A
LARGE
DIFFERENCE
>Clear and logical progression of events
We can do anything! Fuck fear! Fuck limits! ROW ROW
>Series of decisions that do not conflict with past characterization or motivations
Except save this girl despite being well within our power and her pretty much needing just a shot of energy but that'd be too much and we're scared of the consequences
>An end result that satisfies the themes of the narrative
We can't do this. The oppressors were right on fearing this. This is a limit we cannot pass.
whoops!
No, I just meant thematically. Recently I've read a few posts about how there's a strong undercurrent of the "next generation."
Kamina was passing it on to Simon, who became greater because of it. Simon passed it on to those kids at the end. And so on.
Like a spiral.
I mean, come on. That's what the anti-spiral was trying to avoid. Not spiral power itself, but people who couldn't let go of it.
>There is with saving one person and then never anyone else.
And so they didn't even try. Good job.
Shirou and The Doctor would like to have a word with you.