Why do many people deride UBW's writing as garbage or bad?

Why do many people deride UBW's writing as garbage or bad?

Because they're obnoxious memefags who don't know how to compose an original thought if their brain depended on it. Whenever Fate Stay Night first came out in 2004, when the Internet was less critical and less meme-y, everyone fucking loved all three routes.

Pretty much this sadly.

>everyone fucking loved all three routes
What a powerful delusion

>Muh ideals!
>Nuh-uh, they're stupid.
>W-whatever! I'll keep following them!

So beautiful and poetic.

So having higher standards now is bad?

>implying anyone read all three routes in 2004
I've been here for six months: the post

Fucking this, there's nothing more I hate than those faggots that claim to be some anime critic or connoisseur.

FSN is good. End of story.

>I've been here for six months: the post

I've been here for two weeks: the post.

Because Nasu is an autist who is fantastic at world building but does this at the expense of plot cohesion.

Because it's the internet.

Because it is.

There's nothing wrong with enjoying this series on grounds of nostalgia value for your first eroge, but when these same people act like this is objectively good, and push it, then obviously people are going to argue against that.

I don't think fate is "bad" by any means, but anyone who raves about it like it's the greatest thing is either riding the nostalgia high, or completely new to anime in general and this really IS the best thing out of the 20 shows they've seen.

>Why do many people deride UBW's writing as garbage or bad?
Well just because they are correct doesn't mean they are right.

Why?
>Rin needs to train for a decade, be fully aware of how magic works, and chant for a whole minute for something magical to take place. This is meant to explain why learning magic is a hard thing to do. And yet Shiro casts commands, summons super warriors, learns epic spells in seconds, and avoids death rays without having a clue of what the fart is going on, thus debunking the previous claim.
>They keep saying there are rules that make sense, and waste half the show explaining them, only to then reveal:
> Caster who has the power of Rule Breaker,
> Assassin who doesn’t run out of energy without his master around,
> Lancer who feigns death twice in five minutes, only to die the third time,
>Gilgamesh who jumps in the death game out of nowhere, and screws up everyone with a power nobody had any chance of surviving against, besides the bland MC and his constant asspulled power ups and plot armor,
>and Archer who stays alive, even when he was clearly killed.
(1/2)

Adding to all this mess is the very bad writing.
> If half the show is explanations, the other half is characters fooling around and not doing what they are supposed to be doing. I am not kidding you, none of the characters take their roles seriously; they are in a death tournament where it is “kill or be killed” and treat everything as if it’s an amusement park.
> Rin, who really wants to win in this death tournament, saves the life of another contestant, explains all it needs for him to survive in this war, and then proceeds into trying to kill him, thus rendering all that she did so far to be completely pointless, only to regret it and fall in love with him.
> Ilya lets her enemies escape because it was a fun game and wants to play more, while Gilgamesh is not killing his enemies because he doesn’t want to get dusty.
>Ilya and Berserker don’t have their backdrops reveiled, until they are one minute away from dying.
>Shinji and Caster’s first Master don’t even have much of a character or a backdrop story, and are there only as generic one-dimensional villains for the audience to hate.
>As if all that weren’t enough, there is also a significant amount of characters, such as Saber, Rider, Sakura, even Kotomine, who are not doing much in the whole show, even though they seemed to be far more important in their introduction. The reason for that? Because the anime wasn’t adapting the route of the game in which they were vital.

>fatetards

>Rin needs to train for a decade, be fully aware of how magic works, and chant for a whole minute for something magical to take place. This is meant to explain why learning magic is a hard thing to do. And yet Shiro casts commands, summons super warriors, learns epic spells in seconds, and avoids death rays

Your spiel is nonsensical from the start. Shirou can't do things that Rin can, like gem magic, explosion spells, alchemy, magical reinforcement, using familiars, manipulating barriers, etc.
Shit like casting commands or summoning servants are powers granted by the holy grail system for the war. Even a lowly murderer like Ryuunosuke or a non-mage like Kuzuki can become a master without any magical learning.

The only things Shirou can do well are things surrounding athleticism and his tracing ability, which he has practiced since he was young.
There are many things to criticize but your list is irrelevant.

>moeshitter

I don't know, Fate is kind of bad on its own. The only big reveal is the church basement. Without the Matous, Archer, or the Greater Grail its very bland.

>The only big reveal
EOP please

None of the magic Shirou uses is very complicated. At the start of the story, he's only able to perform Projection and Reinforcement. As his Reality Marble is an innate part of him, he has an easier time using it than he would any other spell. Even despite being able to create Noble Phantasms, he still can't repair a wndow.

Also, the Fifth War is different from the Fourth War. The Fourth War was a battle royale where it really was kill or be killed. The Fifth War is a cold war where each side is waiting for someone else to make the first move. It was a deathlock where the first move could decide whether you live or die.

This reads like you've never even watched the anime, let alone played the game. I don't think there was a single true statement. I say think cause I gave up reading after the first 3 lines were nothing but bunk.

When you can slash the word count down by 60% and not lose anything then the writing is garbage. How anyone can enjoy reading the same internal monologues over and over in slightly different words is beyond me.

Nah man, you need that sweet kitchen talk with Shirou.

The entirety of fate is absolute garbage

It's called a multi-route visual novel. Repetition is inevitable.

F/SN was not really talked about on Sup Forums until it got an anime adaptation. I mean maybe there was the odd thread about it occasionally, but it wasn't translated so most people knew nothing about it really. Just like now there were people who could read moon and knew about F/SN and talked of it occasionally, but it wasn't a mainstay on the board until 2006, when the anime adaptation came out.

On a related tangent, the 2006 anime used to be very popular on Sup Forums, generally well-liked, and it wasn't until the VN was fully translated in 2008 that opinion began to turn against it due to fans realizing how badly adapted the story was.

Fate/ is just Nasu's version of expressing his desire to cuck a major mythological figure of the dominant culture of the times by creating a japanese figure to dominate an effeminate version of King Arthur.

The opposite of this is in this season's Tales of Zestiria's "I WANNA BE WHITE" as the author expresses his frustration with his own culture and seeks to attribute foreign ideals (jesus, king arthur) into his own being.

No wonder people don't like it. They can't even get their facts straight. Wow.

I thought it was just about pitting history's famous warriors against eachother to fight for a cup that grants wishes?

Nasu writes in a very weird way but I love his stories for his worldbuilding, characters, and mollusks. I do think some of the writing is stupid but I've seen worse. Kara no Kyoukai is still my favorite from Nasu.

As I understand, the way that UBW is adapted leaves out a lot of the detail from the game. People who watched F/Z first also thought UBW was a sequel even though it came first.
As a guy who recently played the entire VN before having watched any adaption, I can say that if you've have even the slight interest in reading VNs, you'll be doing yourself a heavy disservice if you haven't read F/SN before watching any adaptations. Watching the anime adaptation of UBW feels like watching a really fast playthrough doing everything 100% correct. What's great about the VN for example is that you have to choose what action you take to survive. I remember vividly that one of the best parts of the entire F/SN VN was when you were taken prisoner by Ilya in her mansion. Thanks to recent depictions of her she's seen by most of us as a kawaii loli character but in the VN she's a creepy devil child that would literally take your soul and put you inside of a puppet for the rest of your life if you fucked up. Just her appearance was scary enough because of the threat of Beserker who earlier in the VN tears your insides with just one swing of his axe sword. All the gameovers made the VN a lot more satisfying as each was incredibly detailed.
>one where Caster severs your head and puts it in a test tube only to be put out of your misery by Rin
>one where you ask one of the students that live with Caster for info only for him to be controlled by Caster as an automatic trigger puppet and stabbing you in the gut before committing suicide
>one where Rider has caught you in her trap and she severs all your limbs, orgasming from your screams..

Shit was great.

Do not reply to Fate autists. There is no way they will ever accept their perfectly written VN is a piece of shit.

IMO UBW was in it's prime in the episodes before Caster abducting Shirou. It all started spiraling down afterwards.

They tried too hard to make Shirou cool. him continually getting powerups up the ass and having an orchestra blast over everything he does.

They failed hard at that and just made him an unlikable prick.

Shriou and Archer's fight was the absolute most retarded thing i've seen

>Your ideals are wrong. They're fucking retarded man
>Y-you're w-wrong

I think you'll enjoy HF.

Read the fucking VN.

>VN
lol, go play CCC

I can't read nip.

>one where you ask one of the students that live with Caster for info only for him to be controlled by Caster as an automatic trigger puppet and stabbing you in the gut before committing suicide
This one still gives me goosebumps just from thinking about it. That scene was absolutely crazy.

It is a critique of anime

No one cares about the anime.

Came here to post this but it was already said.
Can't really elaborate more than that. Sup Forums convinced me to read the visual novel, and I was with them waiting for the UBW translation.

said the anonymous nobody

...

Anime-onlys hate it for being crappy.
VN readers hate if for being a bad adaptation.
Who cares for it?

Fatefags must truly be retarded if they think UBW is genuinely good writing.

Shit, I remember that.

That one caught me by surprise.

That legitimately scared the shit out of me.
The worst part was Issei's eyes turned pitch black.

solid pasta

>I didn't read the VN (or watched the anime); the post

>t.shitposter

Why are Fatefags so defensive?
I wouldn't go as far as calling it garbage myself but I wouldn't rate it so highly that it's above getting disliked.

Only VN purists dislike UfoUBW and regarding anime only people, just the retards who wanted F/Z sequel out of UBW disliked Ufo's adaptation of it

Writing
HF > UBW > Fate
Best girl
UBW > Fate > HF

Anyone would be defensive of a thing they genuinely enjoy

Especially when some criticisms are just shallow attempts of trolling

Saber is the best girl in all routes.

*Sakura

Fate is a child romance
UBW is a teenager romance
HF is an adult romance
You have to be at least 18yo to post here, so people are transitioning from teenager to adult and some of them feel the need to ditch their past so they say that UBW is bad.

I don't think so.
There's no reason why someone criticizing something should ruin your enjoyment of it.
Letting yourself develop a persecution complex won't help either. That way both sides will grow more hostile and decent discussion will become even less likely.

So the only thing you appreciate it for is verbosity and edgyness of failure?

>Sakura
>Best girl in all routes

She is irrelevant in Fate and UBW and Illya beats her in HF

Criticism is fine when it makes sense, most complaints against UBW and Fate in general here in Sup Forums make no sense and are brought in by secondaries who don't know what they are talking about or underaged shitters who just want to "troll"

>Generalizing an example

That's not really it, user

If anything Shirou was more mature about his situation with Saber (letting her go) than he was regarding what he did with Sakura

Summing up a long-ass post. There were four examples in it btw. Try writing something less false next reply.

Yeah, that kind of persecution complex is exactly what I was talking about.
I don't see why you'd get especially mad at secondaries critocizing adaptions either if you value the VN over the adaptions yourself.

Because its shit, and its source is even more shit.
Prisma illya is the only good entry from any shit produced by type moon.

Fuck off back to your dying thread Prisma shitter

You call that summing up? You just generalized one example he used and called it a day

what about F/Z?

Because the adaptation is fine as it is, it isn't perfect and it has flaws like most anime have

However some secondaries simply blow things out of proportion and speak shit about the series without knowing what they're talking about

F/Z is an edgy series for fedora tipping teenagers

By the way nobody likes secondaries in any franchise but because Fate is popular some people think that this fanbase is uniquely uptight about this. Just go in any thread about some long running franchise and say the thing is stupid for x or y reasons that came out of your ass and see if being annoyed at secondaries is unique to this fanbase.

Trying to fit in by hating a popular franchise.

Basically this and also low IQ secondaries which is not unique to this series anyways. Man I always gotta laugh at them spouting idiotic and misinformed nonsense in any series I saw.

>There's no reason why someone criticizing something should ruin your enjoyment of it.
>I don't see why you'd get especially mad at secondaries criticizing
Frankly, it gets boring having the same threads with the same arguments that, 99% of the time, stem from someone not understanding what they're talking about. Fate isn't some masterpiece of literature, but when the majority of arguments brought against it can be debunked by reading the VN once, it becomes frustrating for anyone that has done more than just watch the anime.

I'm not saying it's above being critiqued or being disliked, but when people purposely post in threads dedicated to the Fate/Type-moon universe, having solely watched the anime, and act as if they are knowledgeable enough on the subject for their opinion to matter, it gets very tiring. It's the equivalent of someone having 8 years of experience in a field of study having a discussion with people that have comparable years of experience in that field, when they are frequently interrupted by people who read the wikipedia summary of that area of study and decide that they are qualified to speak on the subject. Fatefags get defensive because, more likely than not, critiques made about the series or about aspects of the series are made out of ignorance and so automatically assuming the person critiquing the series hasn't read the material is the safest/most convenient conclusion to come to.

>Shirou has plot armor

You do realize that the events you see in the anime are those in which he avoids the dozens of possible horrible deaths that await him at every turn in the VN, right?

It's not plot armor when we just happen to be following the one path in which he comes out alive.

>he only comes out alive when the plot babies him
that's the definition of plot armor

No, the definition of plot armor is "can't die because the plot won't allow it, even though he should". In the case of him avoiding deaths in the VN, there is a clear reason why he dies or doesn't die in each case.

He comes out alive when you pick the right choice.

This is a flaw of any adaptation of branching VN or game, you very rarely adapt the bad ends, so you don't see the MC as mortal.

>It's not plot armor when we just happen to be following the one path in which he comes out alive.
>It's not plot armor when it just happens to be the one path where he has plot armor.

If you're angry about plot armor you could just stop reading once you reach a bad end.

What's wrong with plot armor?

Literary most series has it. I don't see the problem with it as long as it isn't problematic

Plot armor is only bad if it feels forced. That isn't the case in F/SN, there is always a reason for Shirou to survive but there is also a possibility that this reason will fail and he dies

Nah don't sweat it, it is just another retard secondary anyways.
Ignore the retards and you enjoy more threads( applies to any series)

Not enough Saber.

Should I watch the 2006 anime?

tell me about this girder Sup Forums.

Been a while since I felt like it was safe to openly like F/SN. Thanks anons

people were bitching about the animation quality while it was airing, that's the earliest post I remember from Sup Forums

Sure, if you want to know more of the series, is interested on Saber's backstory and doesn't plans on reading the VN

If you do watch keep in mind that the art isn't comparable to Ufo's

That animation was considered "okay" for it's time

I think the VN was fine, but the anime kind of fell apart at the end.

In the VN Shirou's UBW was used as a creative tool to take advantage of Gil's pride and overwhelm him when he least expected it, locking him in a defensive loop. Shirou acknowledges that in a straight up fight even with UBW up, he may still likely lose.

In the anime, he pops UBW and it all starts out fine with him locking down swords with Gil and pulling out his own. But then halfway through he seems to forget about UBW and just spams Rho Aias for everything and only uses a few of his swords. It begs the question of why even use UBW at all when it's not needed since Shirou can become Superman with Rho Aias.

I think ufotable realized this as well, which is why they had Gil say afterwards that he lost to UBW just to hammer the point home.

The animation was not really the problem, it is 2006 for fucks sake, it was the mash up of 3 routes made the problem.
Still good but it didn't give the VN justice just like ufoUBW.

As a standalone anime I think the DEEN version is largely serviceable for a telling of the Fate route.

But if you're expecting UBW and HF to get covered then you're out of luck.

I am still salty that there was no proper sword spam versus sword spam while melee fighting, instead there was 10 meters jump with gymnastic acrobatics and fucking pink shield that wasn't even summoned by Archer.

They only mashed things up for one measly filler arc though

The fight in the VN was fine but it was very static, the anime made it look cooler and still kept the sword spam

I honestly saw no real problem with it

> But then halfway through he seems to forget about UBW and just spams Rho Aias for everything

Not really, he only uses Rho Aias in the end

>and only uses a few of his swords

False again, Ufotable kept focusing on showing UBW destroying GOB's gates

> It begs the question of why even use UBW at all when it's not needed since Shirou can become Superman with Rho Aias.

You should rewatch the fight

>
I think ufotable realized this as well, which is why they had Gil say afterwards that he lost to UBW just to hammer the point home.

That's where they were mistaken, Gil was not supposed to be standing by the end of that fight

HF fucking when

This. I remember being hyped up with Sup Forums that we're going to see a sword duel with Shirou and Gil breaking tons of swords against each other with a flurry of flying swords in the background.

I mean don't get me wrong, it's better than the shit DEEN gave us, but it's nothing like I imagined when I read the VN.

>just spams Rho Aias for everything
Really? I recall it shattering to the last petal just before Shirou sliced Ea away from goldie.

Anyways, on the VN fight it was all about Shirou not having the stamina for a prolonged fight. As soon as he relaxes a bit when Gil is swallowed up by the grail it results in his body catching up to him, and he can't even walk away as a result. He could lock swords with goldie just fine as long as he ignored his body and focused everything into the fight.