Alright guys. Between the two shit final arcs, which was the least shit? Ninja War arc or Thousand-year Blood War arc. Also, while we're on the subject who was better, Madara or Yhwach?
Anybody who seriously thinks it's not Madara is fucking lying. The only reason that final arc was even remotely tolerable was because Madara carried that shit
Bump
>Madara
>Final boss
As clusterfuckish as it was, at least with naruto we got to actually see the full abilities of pretty much every main and side character at some point.
Also there aren't AS MANY unresolved/dropped plot points by Naruto's end of its run. Again, they're there in Naruto, like what was Kaguya building an army for in the first place, but there's not near as many as bleach.
Naruto had the better end.
Naruto did it better, it's not even closen despite the problems it had.
Even axed Bleach end is just as shitty as Naruto
He's the final boss in my and everybody else's heart
Keep in mind that Madara dies after Kaguya, so you could say he was actually final.
Naruto was an utter clusterfuck until pretty much the very end but at least the story actually came to a close. No matter what you think of Naruto there is a satisfaction in knowing Naruto achieved his goals, and the reader got to see it from start to finish. The problem with Naruto was that it built up Madara but he didn't end up being the final boss. It wasn't terribly out of place because what the story was REALLY building up towards was the fight with Sasuke, which was pretty much as good as it possibly could have been.
Bleach's problems are much closer to the core of the story. Bleach, from a structural standpoint, is pretty fucking awful. The pacing is bad, there's way too many fucking characters any way you slice it, Ichigo's character changed for the worse from the start to the end of the story. For the longest time Bleach was building up Aizen as the hottest shit around. So they got to him, dealt with him awkwardly, but then the story kept going. For a really long time. Naruto sped right past Madara into the Kaguya bits, but Bleach had to drag itself through the totally superfluous and dumb Fullbring arc just to get to the final arc, which also came out of nowhere.
And unlike Naruto, which at the very least ended strong, Bleach went out with a whimper. The final arc was a fucking mess. The pacing was abysmal even by Bleach standards. Look how little screentime Ichigo, the main fucking character, gets in this whole arc. Tons of chapters are spent on fights that don't matter in the slightest, most of them being solved by side characters revealing new powers or abilities that feel way too fucking convenient. Ichigo gets a new sword AND a new form and neither even fucking matter.
The Yhwach fights go about as horribly as you'd expect since his powers are such bullshit. Naruto wasn't amazing but at least it didn't end neck-deep in shit that makes no sense.
There was nothing in Blood war that was as hype as this
You are not even trying.
Anyway both were garbage at least half of the time (80% for naruto) and one got axed so this thread is pointless because bleach end isn't the one planned
Fml I put the ant version
NW4 was overall better executed, but the final protagonists are so much shittier.
> Mr. Hand-work-prevails oh wait son-of-4-kage-reincarnation-of-1st-kage-AND-Sot6P's-son
> Dr. Snakes
> Pink Shit
> Coolest Guy
> Useless sensei with asspull Coolest Guy haxx
Meanwhile I have nothing against any of the protagonists in Bleach, but the pacing and general structural integrity of the arc was a complete shit show.
>You are not even trying.
No I am because we don't even get to see what Zanka no Tachi does before he got killed
Um yeah we did retard
It was one of the most fleshed out bankai's in the entire series
But Kaguya is still alive just sealed.
I actually started to enjoy how nonsensical Bleach was during the war. As for the ninja war, it had already been too long since Naruto became an empty shell and it was just grating to read.
Madara is definitely better than Yhwach, but that's not saying much. Yhwach barely registered as a character, while Madara felt like Aizen; contradictory just to maintain villainhood, plot armored in a way that puts most main characters to shame, and so unreasonably powerful that it killed any chance of suspense.
I'm not gonna pretend the Shinobi war arc wasn't a huge pile of retardation but at least it covered everything it needed to cover, gave the majority of it's character their due (maybe some of them too much due really) and concluded in a fitting manner.
What the fuck did the Thousand Year arc even accomplish? Man I sure enjoyed seeing Mayuri fight a fucking hand or Rukia getting her Bankai but still needing to be saved by nii-sama who just came back to life even though he had an awesome death scene. And it ends with a whimper not even a bang
...
It accomplished prolonging the series and maybe some last minute wish fulfillment. Even if it hadn't gotten canceled, I'm certain Kubo wouldn't have managed to make it anything more than that. He's more or less proven that he bluffs having character motivations planned out, and just avoids addressing it to the best of his ability.
That being said, I did enjoy seeing more of Kisuke and Yorouichi. Would have preferred more from Isshin and Ryuken as well, but you take what you can get.
Wsj made kubo keep nii-sama alive
>I'm certain Kubo wouldn't have managed to make it anything more than that.
With enough time you can't do worse than what kishimoto did don't trust that 6th sense yours that much.
And wff with all those "Naruto is good" this days ? Sup Forums getting sick or summer fag,?
>And wff with all those "Naruto is good" this days
Better than Bleach=!Good
How the hell did I call Naruto good? It's not even worth talking about anymore.
>and the reader got to see it from start to finish.
Fuck no we didn't. He had two goals: become the hokage, be respected by the people.
We saw him get the respect goal, starting with him making genin and impressing Iruka, then Land of Waves, then in Chunin exams, all the way up to saving the village from Pain, which was when he got the full support of the village behind him.
But becoming Hokage? Making genin was the only stepping stone we saw. He failed the chunin exams and we never saw him get past genin. We just skipped from genin to Hokage, never seeing him ascending through the ranks or whatever. We don't even know if he didn't just get promoted due to nepotism, considering he's the son of the 4th, the great-nephew of the 5th, the great-great-grandson of the 1st and great-great-nephew of the 2nd, the student of both the 6th and the 3rd's teacher.
Well I mean I think "save the world" was sort of enough qualifications right?
Plus that entire process would probably be boring as shit
Someone mentioned on TVTropes that no Uchiha ever lost a fight outside of a flashback. Is this true?
>Well I mean I think "save the world" was sort of enough qualifications right?
Doesn't qualify you to be a leader. He did it all mostly by himself, with very little in the way of teamwork, and absolutely no commanding of subordinates.
>Plus that entire process would probably be boring as shit
Nigga you better not being saying the Chunin Exams were boring
It's not the first thread who compare them and yes some ppl call it good
They both are garbage, it's really not better
Stop being a little bitch. Naruto is shit but Bleach is by far worse, no contest.
Both are shit one is way funnier though
>Anybody who seriously thinks it's not Madara is fucking lying. The only reason that final arc was even remotely tolerable was because Madara carried that shit
Bleach was less shit,
Nothing compares to how fucking lame and god awful naruto's last arc was. And the end was beyond mediocre.
Haven't been following either really closely, but is Bleach really over?
Or is Kubo setting us up for an analogue to Naruto GT wherein Ichigo's kid is the new main character?
>where did all the KBG go?
Basically Marths tipper.
I like Naruto more than Bleach overall so I'm a bit biased (even though they are both steaming piles of crap) but I honestly liked the final arc of Naruto better. Everything was tied up and there was enough exploration of the all the themes that were expanded upon throughout the entire series to give a satisfying conclusion. The scale was pretty good too and some parts were actually hype. Bleach has none of that.
>Nothing compares to how fucking lame and god awful naruto's last arc was
Bleach's?
Bleach's incredibly low content to page ratio makes it far more bearable. They're both terrible stories, but you lose far fewer hours reading through Bleach after the point where it's clearly gone to shit due to the pacing. A Bleach chapter is like a minute of fight scenes or two minutes of dialogue while your standard Naruto chapter for the last two years of its run are so fucking dense with bullshit and retcons that it's a complete drag to read.
Becoming the hokage doesn't have any exams though it literally is the previous hokage saying "I don't feel like being hokage anymore, so I am gonna make this guy hokage." He talks it over with his board and the daimyou and thats it.
Used to like Narutu more back in the day, but over the time it really dropped in quality, but in a different way than Bleach. Lets be honest, Kubo doesn't know how to make interesting fights anymore and relies on hidden cards, but Bleach still had some direction all the time. Naruto on the other hand was all over the place post time skip. Despite low quality, Bleach carried me until the Soul King Palace, but Naruto lost me at Pain arc.
To answer the actual question, Bleach did it better because we had a clear villain from start and the whole plot was just fighting his men and eventually him. Naruto was all over the place, too many bad flashbacks, Obito suddenly switches sides as expected, Madara is not the final boss, Kaguya was a shit, the entire terrible and lazy epilogue etc. Bleach on the other hand had drawn out fights and sadly a rushed ending, as if Kubo punished us for being loyal for 15 years.
tl;dr Bleach did it better
So Naruto goes straight to Hokage, then? Nothing in between? He learned nothing from Gaara wanting to be a man of the people and starting from the lowest grunts?
>Bleach did it better because we had a clear villain from start and the whole plot was just fighting his men and eventually him.
No it did not.
First it was just random ghosts.
Then it was Byakuya, who isn't the commander of anyone they fought except Renji. None of the ryoka ever even met Yamamoto.
Meanwhile, a traitor is working behind the citizens. Everyone thinks its Gin because he's a fucking snake, but it's actually the well-liked unassuming Aizen, with Gin and also Tousen as his subordinates. The only fight with the main cast was Ichigo v Aizen, which wasn't even a fight, it was just a curb-stomp.
Then Hueco Mundo started, and it's Aizen and his men until Deicide.
Then they could have shown that, rather than being "btw Naruto is hokage and he fugged Hinata and has two kids. also Sasuke fugged Sakura even though their relationship is really unhealthy and abusive"
Jesus Christ are you retarded? I was talking about the war. We knew it was Yhwach from the start of the war. In Narutu they pulled villains out of their ass during the war.
He already did that by leading the people in the war and veing the center of their moral support.
Also there was also the thing of being accepted by everyone during the pain arc and his feelings with that by facing dark naruto.
I am not sure what more he should do.
Even uchiha jesus said that you can only become hokage if you are aknowledged by the people and by the end of the manga he was basically best friends and aknowledged by the whole world.
How is this even a question? I mean sure eveyone agrees that Naruto seriously shat the bed with its last arc but at least Kishimoto managed to tell the whole damn story. Naruto managed to come to a close while Bleach lets like three written pages full of questions unanswered. It's just completely pathetic and Kubo should honestly feel ashamed for not planning this whole thing through at all. It's actually quite sad because the story itself had a lot of potential and compared to Naruto by far superior art if we ignore the missing backgrounds obviously, to bad it all had go to waste like this.
Madara is best boy
Show what Kakashi going one day "Welp I am done this with this shit" and telling naruto he is hokage now
Center of moral support yes, leader of men, no. I already mentioned him gaining acceptance.
Kakashi became hokage because he's experienced, competent and a proven leader who knows the ins and outs of the village because he's been there. The only real link he has to the previous Hokage is the 4th being his teacher. He isn't related to anybody. Do you think that Naruto right before the 2nd timeskip could actually tell you what a chunin, jonin or ANBU agent actually does? Kakashi could, because he's been all three.
What I wanted was for Naruto to actually figure out how to lead because he never actually got the chance to do so. During the war, he just went to each battlefield with a clone and did everything himself. That's not leading, that's micromanaging, and that's exactly his problem in Boruto. He should be delegating and leaving things up to his subordinates, because that's what they're there for, not overworking himself by - yet again - trying to do everything himself.
Reminder that lack of backgrounds is a deliberate design choice on Kubo's part, stated way back in the first databook
I prefer a non-ending that barely insults me to a retcon-laden, garbage finale.
What the fuck was Naruto even doing between The last and the bort movie? Fucking Hinata and playing house all day? Not doing missions to gain experience? No wonder sasuke is stronger that him, he realized spending time with his family will weakened him.
Going on minimum wage missions since he was still a genin.
He didn't get rusty until after he dedicated his life to 24/7 paperwork
Sasuke going out to the ninja convenience store for ninja cigarettes for 12 years is my favorite part of the post-finale Naruto.
>Fucking Hinata and playing house all day?
Malaysian Airlines
>I prefer a non-ending that barely insults me
But Bleach's is a non-ending that is incredibly insulting
>But Bleach's is a non-ending that is incredibly insulting
You don't even know what the ending is.
Is it really any more insulting than what came before? It's the same as it always was: a bunch of bullshit events going nowhere. There's no pretense of this being thought out, it just ends.
Then what did you want to see Naruto cramming about the laws of konoha?
Why doesn't anyone post the gateway anime copypasta anymore? Have we given up on policing ourselves?
Literally nothing that just came out of your mouth made any sense and everyone is thread is now stupider for having listened to it.
>I prefer a non-ending that barely insults me to a retcon-laden, garbage finale.
It doesn't matter at all what you do or don't prefer because the fact remains that Kishimoto managed to finish the story he wanted to tell. Pretty much every plotline he built up was taken care of for good or worse while Bleach remains a horribly confusing mess Kubo decided or maybe even was forced to finish "just because".
>You don't even know what the ending is.
I know there's a shit ton of plot points that will never be resolved
In a story with ranks, where the MC is looking to be the top of the heap, and you need to prove your worth to be promoted, you'd think we'd see him move up the ranks. At the very least have him be given like a field promotion for helping out in a pinch with Hidan and Kakuzu, or for beating Pain, or anything he did in the war. I mean come the fuck on, as soon as they let him know they were okay with him contributing to the war effort and not just dicking around on an island training with Killer Bee, they should have at least promoted him to "special chunin" or whatever.
But no, he remains the gruntiest of grunts for the duration of the story, with no indication of his worthiness for upper tiers, and then they skip 20 years and say "yeah he's hokage now and he's good for it, I promise". It's a cop-out, just like Kishi not showing any actual romance shit with him and Hinata and letting other people write it because he doesn't know how.
To be fair he really only was a grunt in name only.
Really what I wanted was for Naruto to look at all of his peers, think "what do they have that I don't that makes them worthy of promotion and not me?" and for him to try to get that something. That should have happened way back when Shikamaru was the only one to be promoted to chunin. Hell, he could have gone to Shikamaru and asked him "hey so you've been leading squads for like 3 years now, what's it like? How do you do it? I want to be the leader of a village but I've never even lead a three-man cell before".
He was hokage-tier in terms of power, but he has no breadth when it comes to his abilities It's all the same shit - fox chakra, sage mode, clones and rasengan, mix and match as needed.
He was grunt-tier when it comes to actual ability to lead. Nothing changed between finding out he wasn't fit to lead in Part 1 and the end of Part 2.
He's a literally godmode fighter, don't get me wrong; he just doesn't display what Shikamaru did in his fight with Temari or during the Retrieval arc. At the very least we know he knows how to take orders he doesn't like because he trusts his leader.
Ranks mean shit in Naruto user. As far as we know Sasuke might also still be a genin after the final timeskip and yet no one cares because he still gets assigned S+ missions anyway. Hell as far as we know even Gaara just skiped all ranks and became Kage, it doesn't even seem that uncommon if I think about it.
>Ranks mean shit in Naruto user.
Clearly not, since there are requirements such that you can bar someone from attaining a rank even though they could kill you 5 times over. Again, Naruto and Sasuke displayed far more power in their fights than Shikamaru did, but Shikamaru had an actual strategy, and then forfeited when he knew he wasn't going to be able to win anyway. Remember that one of the lessons in the first part of the exam was knowing when to take big risks and when to leave well enough alone. And clearly they mean a whole lot to Naruto, because his whole goal revolves around attaining not just a particular rank, but the highest rank in the system.
>Hell as far as we know even Gaara just skiped all ranks and became Kage, it doesn't even seem that uncommon if I think about it.
In chapter 249, Gaara told Kankuro in a flashback that instead of continuing with him and Temari as their own little unit, he was going to publicly humble himself by joining the rank and file and gaining their trust.
>As far as we know Sasuke might also still be a genin after the final timeskip and yet no one cares because he still gets assigned S+ missions anyway.
Maybe, it's apparently what happened with Gaara before the timeskip.
I liked the war arc of naruto more desu. It was explained the only way kaguya could die so it made sense when she got sealed. That arrow which got introduced out of nowhere made no sense
>I'm going to regurgitate bastardized versions of quotes I've heard instead of making a constructive argument.
Nice.
But really, Bleach had no pretense of planning and coherency to begin with and it doesn't even bother to wrap itself up properly. It just ends, and that's less offensive than over a year's worth of shitty chapters just to try and tie up loose ends and cover up gaping plotholes.
I'll take incompetent apathy over dedicated incompetence any day.
>wff with all those "Naruto is good" this days ?
do you just conveniuently ignore the general sentiment that Naruto is shit but at the very least it's marninally better than Bleach??
Thousand-year Blood War and Yhwach was the best.
>villain gets introduced literally as the war is coming to a close
>gets beat immediately
>villain gets introduced before the start of the war
>gets beat by like the 5th guy to fight him
The kido being neglected sucks.
I think there are a lot more people who were up to date with Naruto and enjoyed it compared to people who were up to date with Bleach and enjoyed.
Ninja war arc, no contest. For all it's faults Naruto had structure and direction, Bleach couldn't even be assed with a coherent plotline until suddenly Kubo remembers that one thing he wrote some time ago and quickly pastes it back into his comic so he could forget it again in two chapters.
Not to mention that no matter how long the Ninja war dragged, it wasn't nearly as bad as Blood war.
He's the reason I got back into Naruto. Here's hoping he Izanagi'd himself into Boruto.
I agree, but there really wasn't much you could do with it. Of the main cast (Ichigo, Rukia, Orihime, Uryu, Chad) only Rukia knows how to do kido. It's not like she was giving Ichigo lessons. There are absolutely no named characters who are in the Academy and are just learning about kido - it's not that kind of story.
I'm content with what we got, where it's said in passing that the more chant you do the stronger it gets, and a strong chantless kido is a mark of true skill. Considering we don't see Rukia's day-to-day, it only makes sense what information on kido we got would be casual worldbuilding rather than exposition. Other than people just casting it, of course.
>Chad
>part of the main cast
>which at the very least ended strong
Naruto ended better than Bleach, but it wasn't strong by any means
Both were pretty shit, but Naruto at least managed to keep people somewhat interested.
Not him but Naruto getting with Hinata really redeemed the series for me. I remember a lot of people who were pleasantly surprised about it even here.
Hinata is a non-character that appeared 10 chapters out of 700 user, if that "redeemed" a shitty series to you i'm sorry to tell you that you might have brain problems.
That's how shipfaggots are
It's even worse since kido wasn't even the only thing shafted, there's supposed to be four basic combat skills for shinigami, and swordplay was the only one that got any significant focus or development.
The whole sword fixation might not have been that great for the series in the long-term, actually. It caused this big push for everyone to eventually reveal their shikai/bankai, and there's too many shinigami characters for that to be practical since they made up the majority of the recurring cast.
Naruhina a big pile of shit.
Was Bleach the anime to really popularize the concept of people getting individual weapons based on their souls? I can't think of that concept appearing anywhere before Bleach but my power level's not high enough.
It has been clear that was endgame since Hinata was introduced, so even people with brains that chug like mine weren't surprised by it.
More than Renji, whose kido is shit
Kaguya's need for an army was answered in the Boruto movie.
Naruto had the better build up when it came to Madara, while Bleach just basically started to build him up the moment he was introduced. So Madara wins hands down when it comes to story/lore/etc.
Also literally nothing has happened this final arc with bleach, while Naruto had so much shit going on.
God why is Bleach so shit?
Old Yamma can rape Madara with his army of spooky blazing skeletons
Madara is a piece of shit character, really the worst character ever.
>For all it's faults Naruto had structure and direction
LMAO
Naruto lost complete structure and tone when Pain arc ended and literally kept doing what was popular.
At least it seems like bleach is wrapping up its shit better unlike the rushed piece of shit that Naruto ending was.
...
I dunno. The way I feel about Bleach is that it's a whole lot of nothing while Nardo was something but that something was a smelly shit and I can't tell which one is worse.
Well, Rukia still could use some kido in As Nodt battle (especially after her RG training). But look at Byakuya.
In 3/4 of his major battles before TYBW arc (Renji, Ichigo round 3, Zommari) he has utilized some Kido. And the only one in which he didn't (Tsukishima) was about him finding a way to fight different than one he's used to.
Then when he faces As who steals his Bankai (him and Soi Fon using theirs right of the bat was completely retarded, by the way), he doesn't use any kido. Just what the fuck?
No one but Yhwach uing the Quincy spells is also sad. Heck, no one but him and Quilge even uses any quincy techiniques besides newly introduced blut and high speed movement.
I just realized that out of the 4 man that faced Yhwach in the final battle, Renji is the only one who legit won one-on-one battle in this arc (not counting Shaz). It's pretty damn hilarious.
Ichigo defeated Quilge after overpowering him. Also wasn't there only 3?
No, Ichigo was dominating the fight but Urahara shot Quilge from behind. Then he got up, imprisoned Ichigo in his Jail and ws finished off by Grimmjaw.
Oh, and the participiants in the fight were Aizen, Ichigo, Renji and Ishida (Renji did almost nothing though).
>the better final arc
Bleach
>the better ending
Naruto
Both final arcs were shit but Bleach could still be fun and hype at times for things like Kenpachi's bankai. Ending of Bleach is/will be garbage and at least Naruto tied up most loose ends (the remaining ones like the alien army were addressed later in movies). Bleach 1+ milion plot threads never went anywhere.
>Sasuke going out to the ninja convenience store for ninja cigarettes for 12 years is my favorite part of the post-finale Naruto.
This. And best snake getting away with everything and being rewarded for it.
It should be 3 because Renji was an illusion in the fight. It was bullshit though.
Aizen > Madara > Yhwach > Kaguya
>It has been clear that was endgame since Hinata was introduced
It has been clear that was endgame since I otp these two when Hinata offered Naruto to copy off her sheet. This part in the manga cemented it thou.
See